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April 24th, 2016, 11:11 AM
#61
This was a real shock to me. I'm pretty sure non residence kill around 85% of the Bears and the MNR wants to limit the amount of Bears they take, 1 bear for 50km. Is stupid. I can't see the outfitters surviving.
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April 24th, 2016 11:11 AM
# ADS
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April 24th, 2016, 06:37 PM
#62
WELL! We should have all seen this coming. The MNR is bracing for a huge drop in moose tags and a lot of the deer herds are suffering. The only thing in abundance is the predators. They are just jumping on the wagon that has the highest population.. can we all say "extortion " . They have a limited idea of populations/densities and now they're going to take a stab at trying to manage it. PITIFULL !
If I was an outfitter with limited tags I would try to figure out how to only harvest monster bears. Then sell these hunts for $400 and attach a trophy fee of $3000 to $5,000. There's a lot of non-resident guys that have been on multiple bear hunts and taken lots of bears and would love to have a chance at a 450 LB + bear. This is like a game with the MNR as long as you know the rules then you'll need to adjust accordingly or get out of the game. A guy coming up on a $400 hunt (and truly just wants a monster or nothing) will be happy going home with nothing if he didn't get stung too bad and would probably be a repeat customer IF you can show him the bears are there.
Outfitters and bear hunters in general have all been using the same techniques that we all see prevalent out there right now. Over the last 30 yrs I've been chasin those darn bears I try to read and learn as much as I can. It seems to be the same regurgitation of techniques _ over and over and over. BUT it all works! so why would anyone from outfitters to resident hunters look any further.
Everyone gets bears and everyone has had visits from older, smarter trophy bears but getting them is a real trick or a bucket full of horseshoes LUCK... I know there are some guys with better luck on these monsters but their lips are tighter then a ducks azz.
So if an outfitter can pull this off then he would still get the same revenue while catering to a smaller crowd. Also if the outfitter in the next BMU has small quotas that would be a good thing for him too because more of those bears would get to trophy size.
So in closing ... give out fewer bears but give out trophy bears - and of course CHARGE FOR IT!
If you keep doing what you've always done. You'll keep getting what you've always got!
Since light travels faster than sound, some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
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April 24th, 2016, 06:57 PM
#63
Has too much time on their hands

Originally Posted by
redd foxx
Sounds like a bit of discrimination to me by putting quotas on outfitters who cater to non-residents and not on outfitters who cater to residents.
It is, but if it brings more money to those northern towns....Why not.... And I believe most outfitters live (or were used to...) from US hunters.
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April 24th, 2016, 07:30 PM
#64

Originally Posted by
SK33T3R
WELL! We should have all seen this coming. The MNR is bracing for a huge drop in moose tags and a lot of the deer herds are suffering. The only thing in abundance is the predators. They are just jumping on the wagon that has the highest population.. can we all say "extortion " . They have a limited idea of populations/densities and now they're going to take a stab at trying to manage it. PITIFULL !
If I was an outfitter with limited tags I would try to figure out how to only harvest monster bears. Then sell these hunts for $400 and attach a trophy fee of $3000 to $5,000. There's a lot of non-resident guys that have been on multiple bear hunts and taken lots of bears and would love to have a chance at a 450 LB + bear. This is like a game with the MNR as long as you know the rules then you'll need to adjust accordingly or get out of the game. A guy coming up on a $400 hunt (and truly just wants a monster or nothing) will be happy going home with nothing if he didn't get stung too bad and would probably be a repeat customer IF you can show him the bears are there.
Outfitters and bear hunters in general have all been using the same techniques that we all see prevalent out there right now. Over the last 30 yrs I've been chasin those darn bears I try to read and learn as much as I can. It seems to be the same regurgitation of techniques _ over and over and over. BUT it all works! so why would anyone from outfitters to resident hunters look any further.
Everyone gets bears and everyone has had visits from older, smarter trophy bears but getting them is a real trick or a bucket full of horseshoes LUCK... I know there are some guys with better luck on these monsters but their lips are tighter then a ducks azz.
So if an outfitter can pull this off then he would still get the same revenue while catering to a smaller crowd. Also if the outfitter in the next BMU has small quotas that would be a good thing for him too because more of those bears would get to trophy size.
So in closing ... give out fewer bears but give out trophy bears - and of course CHARGE FOR IT!
Lets be more realistic now. Will you do all that work and put all that effort for $400? I am sure you know what it costs to bait bears. now if you tell me, you will be charging $1000 pre-bait, and $2000 trophy fee, this will compare to the western hunt where they have quota on bears.
btw been having trophy fees on my hunt for the last five years
Last edited by skull; April 24th, 2016 at 07:33 PM.
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April 24th, 2016, 07:40 PM
#65
Pat, check your pm's and get back to me.
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April 24th, 2016, 07:48 PM
#66

Originally Posted by
skull
100% correct Sawbill
Why do I need to give a resident a deal when it costs me the same as baiting for Americans?
You don't....It's your business, your prices... you do what you want...
let me tell you a little story, maybe it will help you see where my thoughts were coming from and this is in no way telling you or anyone what to do, this is coming from me and my experience...
I got laid off years ago as a mechanic but I still needed to work to make money.... I was lucky enough to still be able to use the shop to do repairs. I remember doing a brake job one day for someone really cheap. The shop owner (my former boss) asked me how much money I was making on the job. It wasn't much, I think $40... He told me I was crazy for doing it for that price, he would never have taken the job. I looked at it as, it was $40 more in my pocket than I had yesterday....Anyway......................
it's your business, you do what you need/want to do. I hope it works out well for you and the other outfitters...
"Everything is easy when you know how"
"Meat is not grown in stores"
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April 24th, 2016, 07:55 PM
#67
I understand where you're coming from with the brake job analogy. Outfitting is a business with an inventory but one bear is worth way more than $400 and once shot, that bear is gone from your inventory forever. Sure, some guys are doing it because they do love the outfitting but to most it is their livelihood.
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April 24th, 2016, 08:59 PM
#68
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April 24th, 2016, 09:00 PM
#69
I would think most veteran bear guides and their camps are in it more for the fun of bear hunting, rather than the dollar. Yes the money is important, but when bear's in their blood, they will do what ever they have to legally to have a fun time outfitting resident or non resident bear hu8nters.
Back in the 70's we sold hunts for about $350.00. If the OMNRF wants us to regress back in time, why not......
Last edited by chris lavoie; April 24th, 2016 at 09:03 PM.
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April 24th, 2016, 10:01 PM
#70
Back in the 70's you could buy a new pickup truck for just over $3000. Things are a tad more expensive nowadays and hunts and expenses have gone the same direction. Recreational and business outfitters still have to turn a profit to stay in the business and its not unrealistic to expect them to do so.