If nothing else, it should at least make the voices against these projects heard to a higher level. Until now, the only protests that have had success, was with disruption of wildlife habitat...a yawner.
Hope this is isn't another red hearing like they tried with fracking.
No its not.
We both know many, many things affect market value. You as much said so. We are agreed. How anyone (MPAC) can really nail down and eliminate all factors and claim it doesn't, well that really is another topic. We both know and agree number's/statistics can be spun to show what you want. IN this case its pretty obvious all MPAC wanted to do was discredit the Lansink study but be that as it may.
So cut through the noise and bet me Mike. Its not a diversion. Forget MPAC, forget IWTs. Either you have the conviction and stones to bet noise doesn't impact market value or it does. Your rather cowardly trying to side step now.
PS Mike before you agree to EMT me $400 ( you still don't have the conviction to take the bet) Ill let you off the hook even further (instead of even odds on the $1,000).
Take 30 seconds and google affects of noise on market values and people. Whether they are studies in the UK or the US, whether they are airports or roads....what levels (decibels). Also look into research by heath canada on noise levels. And we are only talking noise here, not sightlines or curb appeal and more.
Don't be a coward Mike. Stand up for what you believe in. If curb appeal, sight lines, noise, views etc, etc all are known to affect property values how is it magically in Ontario they don't. How is it perhaps magically all RE agents will tell you noise pollution whether its from planes, or roads depresses market value, but somehow magically the noise from IWT won't?
lmao
PS Mike you should know me well enough to know I have aces up my sleeve, and am still looking for something I know is out there. Sometimes the net and studies is like needles in a haystack.
Last edited by JBen; August 11th, 2016 at 01:21 PM.
What..that's what your going on about ..refresh my memory, post the quote where I said such a thingOriginally Posted by JBen
Take the bet then and stop trying to deflect. Or...
heres a clue. Google noise pollution airports and property values.
and Mike you argued non stop that IWTs don't affect property values, because 'MPAC". Well guess what,
if views/sightlines do,
if noise pollution does in many cases as with airports where its not about both noise and views...
Take the bet, I don't know how anyone can prove or disprove IWTs currently, way too many variables, especially in Ontario (economic, the RE market in the GTA, too short timelines and data sets, etc etc) anytime soon
What can be proven, is whether or not views and noise do.
Take the bet or....
Last edited by JBen; August 11th, 2016 at 01:36 PM.
while your going down that road...here's another study done in England that again found there was no appreciable affect on the proporty value due to Wind Turbines.
So now you have to find another one to match this.
5.0 CONCLUSIONS
This case study focused on one location in the UK where there was a significant number of houses located within half a mile of a wind farm to enable a hedonic regression analysis to be undertaken. The results found some evidence to suggest that the view of the surrounding environment from a property could influence selling price, although there was no clear relationship between having a view of the windfarm and a reduction in value. Nor was there any evidence to suggest a relationship between distance to the windfarm and house price. Whilst the conclusions drawn relate specifically to this location, they support the findings from other studies (Sims and Dent 2007, Hoen 2006, Poletti, 2005) and therefore may be indicative of the likely impact in other areas within the UK. However, whilst there seems to be little evidence to suggest that windfarms reduce house prices (one exception to this was observed within the case study location; a farm where the rateable value had been reduced by one rating band due to the problem of flicker from the turbine blades), these results do raise a number of questions relating to the value or perceived value of the ‘vista”. As model 1 indicates, certain vistas can inflate or diminish house price suggesting that landscape has some intrinsic value to either community or the individual which has not been captured by the variables included in this analysis.
http://www.oddzialywaniawiatrakow.pl...d/file/228.pdf
..refresh my memory, post the quote where I said such a thingDid you find the post where I said such a thing yet ?
104, 109, 117. I'm sure there are more. Having a hard believing time I have to remind you of your own post, nor do they leave much room for misinterpretation. Lest you....
Man up and take a simple bet or don't.
Does noise pollution alone depress property values. And because you seem to forget your own weak dance once cornered when I initially "cornered" you (re offered the bet and referenced train tracks and the noise from them) and you tried to slide away...
So simple question:
if noise from train tracks, airports, roads ALL depress property values........
$1,000 if you have the stones to bet and continue this nonsensical argument.
Last edited by JBen; August 11th, 2016 at 01:51 PM.
Nope nothing in any of those posts where I said such a thing....if you say I said them, then I must of eh!! You'll have to keep looking.
Mean while, here's another study from the University of Guelph...Well JBen you're falling far behind and have shown nothing to support your argument...so I'm going to drop this "nonsensical argument" before CalTex locks it down and accusing us of arguing ..LOL....
Monday, December 8, 2014 — News Release
Wind turbine developments have no effect on property values of nearby homes and farms, according to new research from the University of Guelph.
Published in a recent issue of the Canadian Journal of Agricultural Economics, the study is believed the first peer-reviewed study on this issue in Canada.
The study has received significant media attention in Canada and beyond, including articles in the National Post andThe Daily Mail in the United Kingdom and reports on CTV News, CP 24 News, Global News, CBC News, and Yahoo! News.
It was conducted by Richard Vyn, a professor in the Department of Food, Agricultural and Resource Economics, and Ryan McCullough, a former U of G graduate student and now a policy analyst for Health Canada.
They analyzed more than 7,000 home and farm sales in Melancthon Township and 10 surrounding townships in Dufferin, Grey, Simcoe and Wellington counties. Melancthon, located about 100 kilometres northwest of Toronto, is home to one of Ontario’s first and largest wind farms; 133 wind turbines were erected between 2005 and 2008.
The study included sales data over an eight-year period – from 2002 to 2010 – to capture property values before, during and after the wind farm’s development. During that period, more than 1,000 homes and farms were resold — some multiple times, which allowed for repeat sales analysis.
Using a method common in real estate studies, the researchers created six models accounting for the impact on property values of proximity to the wind farm development and turbine visibility, as well as a combination of these two factors.
In every case, they found wind farms had “no statistically significant effect” on property values
http://news.uoguelph.ca/2014/12/wind...s-study-finds/
Ta Ta, been a slice.
Last edited by MikePal; August 11th, 2016 at 02:27 PM.
Hmm.
1) they admit themselves more data and studies are needed or did you read the last paragraph.
2) How much has the RE market from the GTA (100k is pretty close) which is insane, muddied waters.
In essence, has the addition of Train or bus service, improvements to the 400 and other factors, tens of thousands moving out of the city and to the burbs and in turn burbites moving further away had any kind of impact?
About the only way to prove or disprove is to take two completely identical homes/properties. Put them in a vacuum (control environment where there are no variables, ever hear of that Mike???.) one has a WF added, one doesn't. Probably (note that word) the only way to really measure and prove is to find two identical homes from areas in the province with and without and see if they appreciate the same.
Good luck with that Mike.
Will say a better "test" might be comparing the appreciation of that area, to an area in the East without. See if its the same. But obviously, there will be problems with that as well.
In the meantime. What is known is that sound and views.....
for illustrative purposes.
Currently the 407 is being extended to 115 and Orono. The site of an incoming WF.
5 or 10 years from now they measure a few thousand re-sales from the area.
No matter the results, who can definitely say that the net appreciation whatever it is has been or hasn't been affected by the WF. Because homes 5 miles west in Hampton homes appreciated the same amount or more/less? Im pretty sure anyone with half a brain knows that the 407 is going to result in a huge amount of growth.............no matter what. so there are variables occurring at the same time within the same area that.........Would it not be better to compare price movements say between orono and Newcastle just south? Well theres other variables.
SO in conclusion Mike. does or doesn't sound/curb appeal/views affect market value. Its a yes or no question
Last edited by JBen; August 11th, 2016 at 02:38 PM.
And I just want to add. They at least admit (unlike MPAC) that more studies are needed, more time is needed, more data sets, more comparables, from more regions other than just the one, including cross comparisons .....aka same or similar homes in different regions. I would love to talk to a statistical expert and ask them how when measuring the impact of a WF how they discounted things like the 407, expansion of Go Train service coming to Newcastle on top of the 407 linking to 115, (improvements to the 400 in this ONE and only one case study), how they discounted any economic factors like new plants or plants closing, or Google coming to waterloo and more, how much Google employee's are paid relative to income levels in the same area, and on and on and on and on.
funny that.
Yes or no Mike. Does sound and views affect property values?
Last edited by JBen; August 11th, 2016 at 03:04 PM.
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