Handgun carrying on your own property? bear defense.

ok so this is purely theoretical. I am aware that you can only legally carry non restricted for predator defense on crown land and such, but does this apply to your own land as well? private property? my dream is to one day go off grid and ive lately been thinking of what i would do for predator defense

So my idea is that when working the land i'd always want something on me for predator defense whether it be coyotes killing livestock i would like to end that coyotes life so he doesnt come back when im gone and kill my whole flock of chickens or whatever.. and if a bear comes on my property for whatever reason and he charges me (i know this is unlikely) i would like him dead as well. so i've been researching short barreled shotguns that would be convenient to carry while working but all i can find are sawed off double/single barrels that are 29 inches long and a mossberg with a pistol grip and no stock that is in the 30'' range. but these would still be pretty noticeable when carrying around, even if i made like a makeshift leg holster for it, i think my carrying leg would get sore after walking with it all day.

but then i thought hey maybe the RCMP is reasonable and they allow you to carry restricted on your own property, but i couldnt find any info on it... ANYBODY KNOW? yeah i know i explained a lot for a simple question, but whatever im bored. also note this doesnt refer to shooting, but just carrying. i doubt ill ever have to shoot it and if i do it means i really had to do it and ill deal with it IF any consequences come my way.. its more likely nobody will hear me. Thanks everybody.

Right now you can carry handguns on your own property IF they are unloaded and in a locked container. I believe prohibs might also need a trigger lock.
Didnt used to be this way. Fifty years ago you could possess a handgun "at your residence or place of bussiness" with no carrying permit. With a carrying permit you could carry pretty well anywhere.... Trudeau, Rock and the Blond put an end to the practice....:angry:

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Originally Posted by new2hunting

ok so this is purely theoretical. I am aware that you can only legally carry non restricted for predator defense on crown land and such, but does this apply to your own land as well? private property? my dream is to one day go off grid and ive lately been thinking of what i would do for predator defense

So my idea is that when working the land i'd always want something on me for predator defense whether it be coyotes killing livestock i would like to end that coyotes life so he doesnt come back when im gone and kill my whole flock of chickens or whatever.. and if a bear comes on my property for whatever reason and he charges me (i know this is unlikely) i would like him dead as well. so i've been researching short barreled shotguns that would be convenient to carry while working but all i can find are sawed off double/single barrels that are 29 inches long and a mossberg with a pistol grip and no stock that is in the 30'' range. but these would still be pretty noticeable when carrying around, even if i made like a makeshift leg holster for it, i think my carrying leg would get sore after walking with it all day.

but then i thought hey maybe the RCMP is reasonable and they allow you to carry restricted on your own property, but i couldnt find any info on it... ANYBODY KNOW? yeah i know i explained a lot for a simple question, but whatever im bored. also note this doesnt refer to shooting, but just carrying. i doubt ill ever have to shoot it and if i do it means i really had to do it and ill deal with it IF any consequences come my way.. its more likely nobody will hear me. Thanks everybody.

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Simple answer - No. Not allowed.
Restricted firearms in Canada are only legally allowed to be fired and visible at a licenced range and transported via locked means mentioned above^^

In order to carry - you can google open carry in Canada and I believe it's Trappers with a ATC permit, police, and your life is in danger where the police are insufficient to help....or something along those lines.

Carry a shotgun. Anything restricted will get you in hot water if you get caught. As in - say goodbye to your firearms for an unknown amount of time.

There are a lot of 18" shotguns available with folding stocks that are less than 30"

Do some research- lots out there.

Ive never....NEVER felt the need to carry while out and about around our property. You're more likely to have an encounter with a bear on your deck after garbage cans or bird feeders then randomly coming across one in the forest.

I grew up playing in the bush, and spent most of my adult life working in the bush, and have zero negative encounters with a bear. I can;t even remember the last time I came across a bear in the bush.

Get a dog. Make noise while you're in the bush. Know what to do in an encounter.

If I could have choice of open carrying a handgun in Toronto for protection, or the backwoods of Canada, I would be choosing Toronto.

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Originally Posted by blasted_saber

Ive never....NEVER felt the need to carry while out and about around our property. You're more likely to have an encounter with a bear on your deck after garbage cans or bird feeders then randomly coming across one in the forest.

I grew up playing in the bush, and spent most of my adult life working in the bush, and have zero negative encounters with a bear. I can;t even remember the last time I came across a bear in the bush.

Get a dog. Make noise while you're in the bush. Know what to do in an encounter.

If I could have choice of open carrying a handgun in Toronto for protection, or the backwoods of Canada, I would be choosing Toronto.

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The sensible answer. And given that there's no need to walk around Toronto with a gun....

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Originally Posted by new2hunting

ok so this is purely theoretical. I am aware that you can only legally carry non restricted for predator defense on crown land and such, but does this apply to your own land as well? private property? my dream is to one day go off grid and ive lately been thinking of what i would do for predator defense

So my idea is that when working the land i'd always want something on me for predator defense whether it be coyotes killing livestock i would like to end that coyotes life so he doesnt come back when im gone and kill my whole flock of chickens or whatever.. and if a bear comes on my property for whatever reason and he charges me (i know this is unlikely) i would like him dead as well. so i've been researching short barreled shotguns that would be convenient to carry while working but all i can find are sawed off double/single barrels that are 29 inches long and a mossberg with a pistol grip and no stock that is in the 30'' range. but these would still be pretty noticeable when carrying around, even if i made like a makeshift leg holster for it, i think my carrying leg would get sore after walking with it all day.

but then i thought hey maybe the RCMP is reasonable and they allow you to carry restricted on your own property, but i couldnt find any info on it... ANYBODY KNOW? yeah i know i explained a lot for a simple question, but whatever im bored. also note this doesnt refer to shooting, but just carrying. i doubt ill ever have to shoot it and if i do it means i really had to do it and ill deal with it IF any consequences come my way.. its more likely nobody will hear me. Thanks everybody.

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Where (generally) is your property and what size? If you need a firearm for predator control,you can't beat a trusty 12ga. or a .22. Handguns are more trouble than they're worth.

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Originally Posted by welsh

The sensible answer. And given that there's no need to walk around Toronto with a gun....

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Than why do cops?
Was getting gas a coyote days ago.. there was an opp officer getting gas at the pump next to me.. (hwy7 and 400) bunch of people left the store and she did nothing... Than a black man.. in his 40s leaves the store.. and the cops hand guess straight to rest on get gun.... hmm.... Interesting...

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Originally Posted by topher

Than why do cops?
Was getting gas a coyote days ago.. there was an opp officer getting gas at the pump next to me.. (hwy7 and 400) bunch of people left the store and she did nothing... Than a black man.. in his 40s leaves the store.. and the cops hand guess straight to rest on get gun.... hmm.... Interesting...

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Maybe,he was "known to police". She may have recognized a badass.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Maybe,he was "known to police". She may have recognized a badass.

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Lol.. don't it.. the gentleman in question did not look scary.. but was heading in her direction...
Opp are only highway cops down here..

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Originally Posted by topher

Lol.. don't it.. the gentleman in question did not look scary.. but was heading in her direction...
Opp are only highway cops down here..

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Oh,yeah? When did they move your town out of the province of Ontario? LOL He didn't look scary? You're kidding,right?

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Oh,yeah? When did they move your town out of the province of Ontario? LOL

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Local police here is york regional... never see opp other than the 400 series highways.. when u call 911 yrp shows.. not opp.. accidents on small roads(not400) are yrp... opp doesn't police the area.. they aren't paid to.

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Originally Posted by topher

Local police here is york regional... never see opp other than the 400 series highways.. when u call 911 yrp shows.. not opp.. accidents on small roads(not400) are yrp... opp doesn't police the area.. they aren't paid to.

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Never make the mistake that because one specific force covers your area that other services can't enforce the law in the same area. It can and does happen all the time because a cop in Halifax is a cop in Vancouver or Yellowknife. All PC's are sworn officers of the Crown,no matter where they happen to be.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Never make the mistake that because one specific force covers your area that other services can't enforce the law in the same area. It can and does happen all the time because a cop in Halifax is a cop in Vancouver or Yellowknife. All PC's are sworn officers of the Crown,no matter where they happen to be.

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Never said they can't enforce. I said they don't enforce.
And no he did not look scary.. should he have? Looked like a normal black guy leaving a gas station drinking his petro Canada coffee...
Okay.. the coffee part may be scary.

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Originally Posted by topher

Than why do cops?

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Do you really need an answer to that question? Or are you labouring under the misapprehension that the police in Toronto are walking around shopping, and just carry guns to protect themselves from random attacks?

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Originally Posted by welsh

Do you really need an answer to that question? Or are you labouring under the misapprehension that the police in Toronto are walking around shopping, and just carry guns to protect themselves from random attacks?

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A few weeks ago I saw cops doing exactly that... they were in Lebarons.. full uniform.. buying hunting supplies. They got really good service to... which is weird for Lebarons Markham.

Oh, well, yes, that's clearly why we arm our police then. For protection while shopping, just like the rest of us.

Why do they get these special rights? Gosh, I just can't figure it out.

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Originally Posted by topher

Than why do cops?
Was getting gas a coyote days ago.. there was an opp officer getting gas at the pump next to me.. (hwy7 and 400) bunch of people left the store and she did nothing... Than a black man.. in his 40s leaves the store.. and the cops hand guess straight to rest on get gun.... hmm.... Interesting...

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I hate comments like this. Does nothing but feed stereotypes. Black man bad. Cops trigger happy and racist. Not saying incident didn't happen however your interpretation seems jaded. Reread your post and ponder what people would describe the person who wrote it. Would this be an accurate representation of you or just an aberration.

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

I hate comments like this. Does nothing but feed stereotypes. Black man bad. Cops trigger happy and racist. Not saying incident didn't happen however your interpretation seems jaded. Reread your post and ponder what people would describe the person who wrote it. Would this be an accurate representation of you or just an aberration.

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Only reason I noticed was cause the officer was very cute.... so I was checking her out while filling up...

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Originally Posted by welsh

Oh, well, yes, that's clearly why we arm our police then. For protection while shopping, just like the rest of us.

Why do they get these special rights? Gosh, I just can't figure it out.

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What makes their life more important than mine? Or yours? Or grand children's? Because they CHOOSE a job that puts then around criminals deems their life more more "valuable"? I'm not trying to put down police in any way. But my job requires me to go in some very bad area as well.. I've been in some if the worst tchc buildings in Toronto for my job.. I have been robbed twice an threatened nite times than I remember but yet, I'm not given the ability to protect myself....
Sounds right to me...

They are equipped with equipment to protect public safety. If what you say was true they would carry out of uniform too. If you feel your work place is hazardous you do have the right of refusal Cop doesn't. Next time you feel threatened send a 911 you do carry a cell don't you?

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Originally Posted by topher

What makes their life more important than mine? Or yours? Or grand children's? Because they CHOOSE a job that puts then around criminals deems their life more more "valuable"? I'm not trying to put down police in any way. But my job requires me to go in some very bad area as well.. I've been in some if the worst tchc buildings in Toronto for my job.. I have been robbed twice an threatened nite times than I remember but yet, I'm not given the ability to protect myself....
Sounds right to me...

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You ARE kidding right ????

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

You ARE kidding right ????

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No I'm not. I want to know what makes them more important than everyone else. Keep in mind I do have police who are friends and family.

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

They are equipped with equipment to protect public safety. If what you say was true they would carry out of uniform too. If you feel your work place is hazardous you do have the right of refusal Cop doesn't. Next time you feel threatened send a 911 you do carry a cell don't you?

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Actually EVERYONE In Ontario has the right to refuse work due to safety. I had a ladder stolen off me while I was walking from my truck to the job site... this was written an parliament area.. when I got to the store, the store owner told me.. ya the police don't even come here...
I'll call 911 sure.. and I'll tell the bad guy to wait 15 minutes to.....

Buy a bell for your dog. Everything will head the other way or carry a whistle around your neck.

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Originally Posted by topher

Actually EVERYONE In Ontario has the right to refuse work due to safety.
.....

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Not correct police, and fire to name a few can't.

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

Not correct police, and fire to name a few can't.

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Well they can...they would just face charges under the Police Services act. OHSA in the preamble excludes Emergency Services.

As I read and reply to this I am eating a peanut butter and jam sandwich, made with Gramma's homemade jam. She spends her summer in the bush and country of Northern Ontario in whatever berry patch is ripe in season. From wild strawberries to raspberries, wild blueberries, gooseberries, currants...She has never carried a gun in her 77 years. She has had Setters, Labs, GSD, King GSD, Newfs, and currently a Shiloh Shepherd. Her criteria is a dog smart enough to no cower behind her if they come across a bear. It can either decide to challenge the bear or draw it away from her just no draw it to her.

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

Not correct police, and fire to name a few can't.

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I thought police could. I thought firemen were the only ones who couldn't.
But there are others as well - like medical staff dealing with SARs, Ebola etc - they can't refuse duty without repercussions.

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Originally Posted by topher

Local police here is york regional... never see opp other than the 400 series highways.. when u call 911 yrp shows.. not opp.. accidents on small roads(not400) are yrp... opp doesn't police the area.. they aren't paid to.

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Same around Ottawa - Ottawa police handle the messy stuff. OPP is the highway patrol - just the 417 through town.

Re: armed & uniformed shopping - I sort of thought that was the norm - see uniformed officers running errands all the time. In our area area they'll go grocery shopping and take the groceries home in the cruiser - could be the guys off duty and didn't go home to change first. Don't really care - although I can see where it might create a negative view.

I live in a rural area that is policed by the OPP. It's no big deal to see them parked in their driveway, perhaps having lunch? We see them all the time at the bank, store or rest. having a coffee chatting with the locals. It doesn't mean they're not on the job doing whatever it is that they do. If you ask me, I think it kind of breaks down the divide between them and the public. Nothing wrong with it whatsoever!

I worked with people (me included) who would regularly stop at a grocery or corner store and take a bag of food to folks who were struggling to put a meal together for the family or run an errand for a senior that had trouble getting out. That's what friends do for friends and we thought nothing of it. There was always some dipstick that would complain,though. Some folks go nit-picking through life finding stuff to bi**h about. :rolleyes: I really feel sorry for them. What a pathetic way to go through life.:sad:

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Originally Posted by Bushmoose

I think it kind of breaks down the divide between them and the public. Nothing wrong with it whatsoever!

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I think your right, in some places I'm sure the LEO's are still encouraged to mingle within their communities to get more acquainted with the general public. Back to the day, they had beat cops who walked the streets an stores all day, it was actaully expected of them to be seen.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

. There was always some dipstick that would complain,though. Some folks go nit-picking through life finding stuff to bi**h about. :rolleyes: I really feel sorry for them. What a pathetic way to go through life.:sad:

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I agree...

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Originally Posted by MikePal

I think your right, in some places I'm sure the LEO's are still encouraged to mingle within their communities to get more acquainted with the general public. Back to the day, they had beat cops who walked the streets an stores all day, it was actaully expected of them to be seen.



I agree...

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Its called Community Based Policing. It's getting officers out of their cruisers and into the communities they police. Its a very good policy change.

My neighbour (JP) is an Ottawa City cop (one of the good ones). He had the beat in Vanier (area of high crime and prostitution in Ottawa) for several years. He is nearing retirement and the senior staff told him he didn't have to go back to being a 'Patrol Cop'. He flat outright told them that he would take his turn.
So for several years JP would come home and tell me stories. He would start his patrol by going into Vanier and parking the cruiser). He would then get out and walk the streets. He was that well liked that the prostitutes, if they knew they were going to be arrested, would hide until he returned to work and then surrender to him as soon as they spotted him.
There are good cops out there - unfortunately we don't hear about them often enough. Remember they are like the rest of society there is 98% good and that 2% margin that are not good...

You may be able to get a wilderness carry permit but good luck. The best bet for you would be having a short shotgun for defense.

If you want a side arm there is a little known law in Canada with reference to antiques. If you have a handgun older than a certain age and not in certain calibers then it is antique status and follows the same laws as non-restricted. You cannot concealed carry them but you can open carry them in the bush. In Ontario you cannot hunt with a handgun though, so you would not be able to use it for that purpose. Remember that you will need to be the one to show proof that it is as old as you say it is. You can get RCMP letters for most of them, first generation Webley pistols are popular for this purpose.

Restricted firearms in Canada need to be double locked for storage and transport. This means that they need to be rendered inoperable (trigger lock, cable lock through slide, removal of firing pin) as well as being in a locked container that cannot be easily broken in to. You can store and transport in a hard case with a trigger lock on it with the case having a pad lock on it.

As stated above, you cannot remove it from the case outside of the places listed in your LTATT, meaning, if someone stops you and asks to see your restricted firearm it is unlawful to unlock it and show them outside of, most often, your home or your range. This includes the police, if they want to see your restricted firearm you still cannot unlock it until at those locations.

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Originally Posted by Fox

You may be able to get a wilderness carry permit but good luck. The best bet for you would be having a short shotgun for defense.

If you want a side arm there is a little known law in Canada with reference to antiques. If you have a handgun older than a certain age and not in certain calibers then it is antique status and follows the same laws as non-restricted. You cannot concealed carry them but you can open carry them in the bush. In Ontario you cannot hunt with a handgun though, so you would not be able to use it for that purpose. Remember that you will need to be the one to show proof that it is as old as you say it is. You can get RCMP letters for most of them, first generation Webley pistols are popular for this purpose.

Restricted firearms in Canada need to be double locked for storage and transport. This means that they need to be rendered inoperable (trigger lock, cable lock through slide, removal of firing pin) as well as being in a locked container that cannot be easily broken in to. You can store and transport in a hard case with a trigger lock on it with the case having a pad lock on it.

As stated above, you cannot remove it from the case outside of the places listed in your LTATT, meaning, if someone stops you and asks to see your restricted firearm it is unlawful to unlock it and show them outside of, most often, your home or your range. This includes the police, if they want to see your restricted firearm you still cannot unlock it until at those locations.

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Somebody needs to spend a little less time on Wikipedia:):):)

The best home defence nice slug gun, non restricted.

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Originally Posted by Fox

You may be able to get a wilderness carry permit but good luck. The best bet for you would be having a short shotgun for defense.

If you want a side arm there is a little known law in Canada with reference to antiques. If you have a handgun older than a certain age and not in certain calibers then it is antique status and follows the same laws as non-restricted. You cannot concealed carry them but you can open carry them in the bush. In Ontario you cannot hunt with a handgun though, so you would not be able to use it for that purpose. Remember that you will need to be the one to show proof that it is as old as you say it is. You can get RCMP letters for most of them, first generation Webley pistols are popular for this purpose.

Restricted firearms in Canada need to be double locked for storage and transport. This means that they need to be rendered inoperable (trigger lock, cable lock through slide, removal of firing pin) as well as being in a locked container that cannot be easily broken in to. You can store and transport in a hard case with a trigger lock on it with the case having a pad lock on it.

As stated above, you cannot remove it from the case outside of the places listed in your LTATT, meaning, if someone stops you and asks to see your restricted firearm it is unlawful to unlock it and show them outside of, most often, your home or your range. This includes the police, if they want to see your restricted firearm you still cannot unlock it until at those locations.

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Restricted firearms do not need double locking if they are stored in a "vault, safe or room that was built or modified specifically to store firearms safely."

Back to original question, carry a shotgun. Does anyone on here know anyone that was actually attacked by a bear? I know two.

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Originally Posted by skeeter1

Somebody needs to spend a little less time on Wikipedia:):):)

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I have an antique, I also have my RPAL, I know the rules, thanks for the comments.

There is a decent sized group of people who keep 1870s revolvers running and some of whom bring them along on fishing trips for defense but this is more a grizzly country situation.

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Originally Posted by chris1395

Restricted firearms do not need double locking if they are stored in a "vault, safe or room that was built or modified specifically to store firearms safely."

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See the RCMP link.
They need a lock on them (trigger or cable, disassembly is fine too) AND locked in a cabinet or locked in a room or lock the bolt carrier in another vault. It is not an OR statement like non-restricted.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/f...posage-eng.htm


As for the OP, it is less of a pain to keep a 12ga pump around with a short barrel. You can get legal 12in and 14in barrels (manufactured that way) for an 870. As long as your OAL remains above the minimum you will remain non-restricted and be able to use it anywhere you can use any other shotgun.

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Originally Posted by skeeter1

Somebody needs to spend a little less time on Wikipedia:):):)

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....and relying on Wiki for accurate information,too.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

....and relying on Wiki for accurate information,too.

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Maybe taking the courses, doing the LTATT course, learning about antiques, looking into RCMP regulations.

Antique:
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/f...orique-eng.htm

Storing:
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/f...posage-eng.htm

The OP was asking about handguns for protection, for new handguns this is almost impossible in this country, unless you want to use a flintlock as a side arm.

I was giving him the information about antiques in Canada, which is a valid way of using a handgun with open carry as a sidearm for protection and not going against the restricted laws as antiques trump prohibited and restricted rules in Canada.

The following pistol made before 1898 (before Jan 1 1898) would be legal for open carry protection in Canada as it uses the 455 Webley round, not one of the exception calibers of (.22 short, .22 long, .22 long rifle, .32 short colt, .32 long colt, .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, .32‑20 Winchester, .38 Smith and Wesson; .38 Short Colt, .38 Long Colt, .38-40 Winchester, .44‑40 Winchester, or .45 Colt). These rounds are generally made from blackpowder as most of these revolvers are not proofed for smokeless powder and also use dead soft lead reloaded on a compressed charge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webley_Revolver

There is a Wiki link for you.

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Originally Posted by Fox

I have an antique, I also have my RPAL, I know the rules, thanks for the comments.

There is a decent sized group of people who keep 1870s revolvers running and some of whom bring them along on fishing trips for defense but this is more a grizzly country situation.

See the RCMP link.
They need a lock on them (trigger or cable, disassembly is fine too) AND locked in a cabinet or locked in a room or lock the bolt carrier in another vault. It is not an OR statement like non-restricted.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/f...posage-eng.htm


As for the OP, it is less of a pain to keep a 12ga pump around with a short barrel. You can get legal 12in and 14in barrels (manufactured that way) for an 870. As long as your OAL remains above the minimum you will remain non-restricted and be able to use it anywhere you can use any other shotgun.

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There is an OR statement for restricted

Restricted and prohibited firearms

• Attach a secure locking device so the firearms cannot be fired and lock them in a cabinet, container or room that is difficult to break into;

or

• Lock the firearms in a vault, safe or room that was built or modified specifically to store firearms safely.
• For automatic firearms, also remove the bolts or bolt carriers (if removable) and lock them in a separate room that is difficult to break into.

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Originally Posted by Fox

Maybe taking the courses, doing the LTATT course, learning about antiques, looking into RCMP regulations.

Antique:
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/f...orique-eng.htm

Storing:
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/f...posage-eng.htm

The OP was asking about handguns for protection, for new handguns this is almost impossible in this country, unless you want to use a flintlock as a side arm.

I was giving him the information about antiques in Canada, which is a valid way of using a handgun with open carry as a sidearm for protection and not going against the restricted laws as antiques trump prohibited and restricted rules in Canada.

The following pistol made before 1898 (before Jan 1 1898) would be legal for open carry protection in Canada as it uses the 455 Webley round, not one of the exception calibers of (.22 short, .22 long, .22 long rifle, .32 short colt, .32 long colt, .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, .32‑20 Winchester, .38 Smith and Wesson; .38 Short Colt, .38 Long Colt, .38-40 Winchester, .44‑40 Winchester, or .45 Colt). These rounds are generally made from blackpowder as most of these revolvers are not proofed for smokeless powder and also use dead soft lead reloaded on a compressed charge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webley_Revolver

There is a Wiki link for you.

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Relax! We're only pulling your leg.LOL

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Originally Posted by tracker

Back to original question, carry a shotgun. Does anyone on here know anyone that was actually attacked by a bear? I know two.

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No - but I know of 3 occaissions within 1/2 mile of each other over 2 or 3 years where a bear tracked hunters to their moose/deer stands and then would shuffle around about 10-20 feet away trying to figure out what to do next. In one instance he wandered off, in the second, the hunter unloaded his rifle into the ground in front of the bear and he left, in the third, the hunter had a bear tag.

I'm assuming it was the same bear - and that after the third time it stopped happening.

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Originally Posted by chris1395

There is an OR statement for restricted

Restricted and prohibited firearms

• Attach a secure locking device so the firearms cannot be fired and lock them in a cabinet, container or room that is difficult to break into;

or

• Lock the firearms in a vault, safe or room that was built or modified specifically to store firearms safely.
• For automatic firearms, also remove the bolts or bolt carriers (if removable) and lock them in a separate room that is difficult to break into.

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The "OR" statement is for what type of thing that you need to lock it into.
There is no difference between a vault and a cabinet but the word that the person uses. If I build a room to specifically store firearms safely it is a room that is not easily broken in to and visa versa.

There was a situation at Shooter Choice in Waterloo when they brought in the lock and in a locked cabinet rule. The shop did not have a vault big enough for all of them over night for a little while. The display cabinets were legal for display with a trigger lock on them but the vaults were not big enough to keep the bulk of the locks as well. They left them legally in the display cabinets until they had their larger vaults (cabinets) and their store was robbed. The guns would have been better stored without the gun locks on them in the secured cabinets (vaults) but that would have been illegal, so they kept them legal and had them stolen.

I know where you are going though, the reason for it is to keep them secure.

Trimmer, I have been driven up the wall on this board by people acting like I am just a punk kid who knows nothing about anything. Yep, I snapped at your post, but this information is based on recent experience with inheritance, it was a pain in the butt to get the information I needed to prove antique status and to go through all the crap to get the RPAL.

I really hope the NDP don't get in or this will all be for not.

If you feel the need to be armed while in the bush that's a matter of preference. In ON there are very few reasons to do so, but black bears may be a concern. I don't tend to give it much thought, but if I were camping with my young son, it may be something to think about.

The main concern with bears is in areas where they are in contact with humans, and have lost much of their fear. Male bears make up the majority of attacks. The old adage about a mother and cubs is only accurate if you get between the two, otherwise mama usually takes flight with them.

Now, having said that. A short shotgun, with anywhere from a 12" - 18" barrel, would fit the bill just fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fox

The "OR" statement is for what type of thing that you need to lock it into.
There is no difference between a vault and a cabinet but the word that the person uses. If I build a room to specifically store firearms safely it is a room that is not easily broken in to and visa versa.

There was a situation at Shooter Choice in Waterloo when they brought in the lock and in a locked cabinet rule. The shop did not have a vault big enough for all of them over night for a little while. The display cabinets were legal for display with a trigger lock on them but the vaults were not big enough to keep the bulk of the locks as well. They left them legally in the display cabinets until they had their larger vaults (cabinets) and their store was robbed. The guns would have been better stored without the gun locks on them in the secured cabinets (vaults) but that would have been illegal, so they kept them legal and had them stolen.

I know where you are going though, the reason for it is to keep them secure.

Trimmer, I have been driven up the wall on this board by people acting like I am just a punk kid who knows nothing about anything. Yep, I snapped at your post, but this information is based on recent experience with inheritance, it was a pain in the butt to get the information I needed to prove antique status and to go through all the crap to get the RPAL.

I really hope the NDP don't get in or this will all be for not.

---

Fox I would respectufully disagree, I know its a miniscule point but still there is so much misconception out there on what you can and cannot do especially with restricted firearms. If you look at Section 8.3 - Page 182/183 of your CFRSC course book, it is described in the the minimum requirements, and illustrated in the Figure with long guns and handguns stored together in vault/safe without triggerlocks. I don't have room in my safe for every gun to have trigger locks, I don't even have enough trigger locks equip each gun while in storage. I'm certain I am legal to store them that way.

To add, a Stack-On "cabinet" is not a vault and if thats what a person has, then yes they need to be trigger locked to meet the requirements.

Google Mare's leg or rossi ranch hand.

Why so centered on black bears? What about wolves, coywolves, cougars and sasquatches?

Is shooting a sasquatch homicide or murder? Are they granted the same protection under the law as us?

I know they are out of stock but this is non-restricted.

https://www.canadaammo.com/product/d...y-shotgun-8-5/

8.5in barrel, 3 shot, 12ga, 3in chamber.

If you can miss 3 times on that charging animal you don't need a 4th.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fox

The "OR" statement is for what type of thing that you need to lock it into.
There is no difference between a vault and a cabinet but the word that the person uses. If I build a room to specifically store firearms safely it is a room that is not easily broken in to and visa versa.

There was a situation at Shooter Choice in Waterloo when they brought in the lock and in a locked cabinet rule. The shop did not have a vault big enough for all of them over night for a little while. The display cabinets were legal for display with a trigger lock on them but the vaults were not big enough to keep the bulk of the locks as well. They left them legally in the display cabinets until they had their larger vaults (cabinets) and their store was robbed. The guns would have been better stored without the gun locks on them in the secured cabinets (vaults) but that would have been illegal, so they kept them legal and had them stolen.

I know where you are going though, the reason for it is to keep them secure.

Trimmer, I have been driven up the wall on this board by people acting like I am just a punk kid who knows nothing about anything. Yep, I snapped at your post, but this information is based on recent experience with inheritance, it was a pain in the butt to get the information I needed to prove antique status and to go through all the crap to get the RPAL.

I really hope the NDP don't get in or this will all be for not.

---

I have to disagree if the "OR" ref you are making was true it would have been worder differently
-attach a secure locking device so the firearms cannot be fired.
-Lock them in a cabinet, container room, or vault......

The "OR" negates the whole first statement if the conditions of the "OR" are met, furthermore a vault or safe or specific modifications ARE different than a cabinet.

If I felt the need I would definitely take a shot gun with slugs. Shooting handguns like you see in the movies aint as easy as it seems so unless you are proficient with a revolver in a suitable bear stopping chambering you may do more harm than good.

Bear spray or here's another option: http://www.oodmag.com/community/foru...ting-Equipment

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chris1395

Fox I would respectufully disagree, I know its a miniscule point but still there is so much misconception out there on what you can and cannot do especially with restricted firearms. If you look at Section 8.3 - Page 182/183 of your CFRSC course book, it is described in the the minimum requirements, and illustrated in the Figure with long guns and handguns stored together in vault/safe without triggerlocks. I don't have room in my safe for every gun to have trigger locks, I don't even have enough trigger locks equip each gun while in storage. I'm certain I am legal to store them that way.

To add, a Stack-On "cabinet" is not a vault and if thats what a person has, then yes they need to be trigger locked to meet the requirements.

---

CORRECT !!!!! I don't need a trigger lock on my handgun if stored in a vault !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rick_iles

CORRECT !!!!! I don't need a trigger lock on my handgun if stored in a vault !

---

I just contacted the RCMP to get them to define a gun cabinet vs a gun vault, somehow I do not believe that they will.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fox

I just contacted the RCMP to get them to define a gun cabinet vs a gun vault, somehow I do not believe that they will.

---

That is likely up to interpretation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fox

I just contacted the RCMP to get them to define a gun cabinet vs a gun vault, somehow I do not believe that they will.

---

You are expecting them to give you their definition? Are you sure you're not one of JT's advisors?

Option #1 : Antique handgun with hard to find ammo, no firearms license required.
Option #2 : 12 gauge with 8.5" barrel (27" overall length) and easy to find slugs, non-restricted PAL required.

Your other options are illegal or impractical.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ch312

Option #1 : Antique handgun with hard to find ammo, no firearms license required.
Option #2 : 12 gauge with 8.5" barrel (27" overall length) and easy to find slugs, non-restricted PAL required.

Your other options are illegal or impractical.

---

Depending on who the peace officers are in your area both of these options may stir up some grief for you.

Both are 100% legal and I would have no problem with either, but your neighbour may call the cops on you for having that short shottie. Someone here mentions the Mare's leg, another cool option, another option your neighbour may think is not legal.

If you live well away from prying eyes both of these options and many others are 100% legal for protection in Ontario.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fox

Depending on who the peace officers are in your area both of these options may stir up some grief for you.

Both are 100% legal and I would have no problem with either, but your neighbour may call the cops on you for having that short shottie. Someone here mentions the Mare's leg, another cool option, another option your neighbour may think is not legal.

If you live well away from prying eyes both of these options and many others are 100% legal for protection in Ontario.

---

There is the chance of anyone calling the police on you no matter where you are or what firearm you're using whether you're deer hunting with a slug gun, coyote hunting with a rifle, or carrying a short shotgun on your own property. As long as you're legal, have at er.


I REALLY wish firearms owners would stop this "Oh, you better be careful and hide it or someone might call the cops" crap. Stop spreading this filth and putting the idea into shooters heads that we should be hiding our legal activities. In doing so you're simply making the anti's happy. Be proud of your hobby, don't hide it!


Anyone who thinks we should hide legal activities has been listening to or reading the anti propaganda bit too much...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ch312

There is the chance of anyone calling the police on you no matter where you are or what firearm you're using whether you're deer hunting with a slug gun, coyote hunting with a rifle, or carrying a short shotgun on your own property. As long as you're legal, have at er.


I REALLY wish firearms owners would stop this "Oh, you better be careful and hide it or someone might call the cops" crap. Stop spreading this filth and putting the idea into shooters heads that we should be hiding our legal activities. In doing so you're simply making the anti's happy. Be proud of your hobby, don't hide it!


Anyone who thinks we should hide legal activities has been listening to or reading the anti propaganda bit too much...

---

I agree 100%, just putting the facts out there.

People draw less attention when there rifle is a bolt action with a wood stock than a semi with a black stock.

It is not right, but it is reality.

I think that it would be a good idea to know who lives around you and get a feeling for how they are.

I know that when I lived in town I did not have my deer on the hood of my car and drive back to my house. would it have been legal, yes, but it stirs up emotions in some people that I would much rather not deal with.

I currently can hunt in my back yard, it is a small property but since I am not close to a place of worship or a school I am within my rights to hunt there. I also have other places to hunt. Since I want to keep a good relationship with my neighbours I doubt I will be shooting at geese or turkeys in the backyard with my 12ga at 7am, even though I am within my legal rights to do so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ch312

There is the chance of anyone calling the police on you no matter where you are or what firearm you're using whether you're deer hunting with a slug gun, coyote hunting with a rifle, or carrying a short shotgun on your own property. As long as you're legal, have at er.


I REALLY wish firearms owners would stop this "Oh, you better be careful and hide it or someone might call the cops" crap. Stop spreading this filth and putting the idea into shooters heads that we should be hiding our legal activities. In doing so you're simply making the anti's happy. Be proud of your hobby, don't hide it!


Anyone who thinks we should hide legal activities has been listening to or reading the anti propaganda bit too much...

---

Spoken like someone who has yet to see what a legal defense costs, bogus charges or not.

Discretion is the better part of valor. Be proud, but be smart.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ch312

I REALLY wish firearms owners would stop this "Oh, you better be careful and hide it or someone might call the cops" crap. Stop spreading this filth and putting the idea into shooters heads that we should be hiding our legal activities. In doing so you're simply making the anti's happy. Be proud of your hobby, don't hide it!

Anyone who thinks we should hide legal activities has been listening to or reading the anti propaganda bit too much...

---

There's a big difference between flaunting your legal rights and drawing attention to yourself and quietly exercising your rights while having regards to those that may find them offensive. Best to avoid conflict, even if your right.

Sure carry a handgun to look cool to your buddies on your property You need something to protect yourself with and you won't have to feed it anything but lead and a bit of gun oil on ocassion . Tell the officer if you get questioned that I told you this on an open forum and that I am 100 % correct He will know me and that I'm right . He will tell you he has seen me do this regularly .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

There's a big difference between flaunting your legal rights and drawing attention to yourself and quietly exercising your rights while having regards to those that may find them offensive. Best to avoid conflict, even if your right.

---

Exactly, in the back woods well away from people, no problem.
I know of people using antiques for protection in the mountains, they also have them for survival, but they keep them in a locked case unloaded in a duffel bag while they load up the canoe and don't put it in the open carry holster until they are well away from the vehicles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

Spoken like someone who has yet to see what a legal defense costs, bogus charges or not.

Discretion is the better part of valor. Be proud, but be smart.

---

Actually I believe I know this poster and he absolutely knows the legal costs and if I recall correctly he won his case although it was not related to this particular thread or scenario . We need more like ch312 to challenge the letter of the law at times if for nothing else other than what rights/ priveleges we do have and keep us aware of the fact Don't shoot the messenger for educating with good info .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fox

Exactly, in the back woods well away from people, no problem.
I know of people using antiques for protection in the mountains, they also have them for survival, but they keep them in a locked case unloaded in a duffel bag while they load up the canoe and don't put it in the open carry holster until they are well away from the vehicles.

---

Who are you Fox to impose your moral issues or how it looks to anyone or anywhere on us Again stop with your personal judgement calls .Standup for hunters and firearms owners for a change instead of constantly the negative .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 400bigbear

Who are you Fox to impose your moral issues or how it looks to anyone or anywhere on us Again stop with your personal judgement calls .Standup for hunters and firearms owners for a change instead of constantly the negative .

---

I never said anything personal to anyone.

Do what you want, I have never told anyone they cannot do anything, I just suggested what I would do it that situation.

I have been ripped on this board for doing things that were ethical in my mind (40 yard shot with a bow and finding it unsafe to put crosshairs on a bull with no bull tag).

You can do what ever the heck you want, take your shotgun not locked with no case and drive around downtown Toronto, go nuts, have at it, I really do not care.

I simply stated what others have done to keep from causing any potentially expensive issues from arising.

Well Fox it may seem like I'm picking on you lad but I truly wish you no ill will . You just make me crazy with your anal stuff . Lol yes my friend young people I lose patience with these days so your not alone Lol they say I'm grumpy and often that is true but then again I have lived more and earned that right as old Grandma Boo used to tell me when I was young and she was old . Liol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skeeter1

I have to disagree if the "OR" ref you are making was true it would have been worder differently
-attach a secure locking device so the firearms cannot be fired.
-Lock them in a cabinet, container room, or vault......

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skeeter1

The "OR" negates the whole first statement if the conditions of the "OR" are met, furthermore a vault or safe or specific modifications ARE different than a cabinet.

---

Just to finish this up. Here is the link the RCMP sent me.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/r...age-3.html#h-4

Their opening statement was as such "The Chief Firearms Officers (CFOs) of the Provinces and Territories have staff that inspect storage facilities for suitability. ".

This to me says that unless they say that your cabinet, vault, room or otherwise meets their inspection that restricted need to be rendered inoperable and stored in a locking container of some sort.

This may not be exactly as expected but if keeping a trigger lock on it keeps it from being confiscated then I will store it with a trigger lock on it.

Do what you want with the information, this email response was as expected.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fox

[FONT=arial]

Just to finish this up. Here is the link the RCMP sent me.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/r...age-3.html#h-4

Their opening statement was as such "The Chief Firearms Officers (CFOs) of the Provinces and Territories have staff that inspect storage facilities for suitability. ".

This to me says that unless they say that your cabinet, vault, room or otherwise meets their inspection that restricted need to be rendered inoperable and stored in a locking container of some sort.

This may not be exactly as expected but if keeping a trigger lock on it keeps it from being confiscated then I will store it with a trigger lock on it.

Do what you want with the information, this email response was as expected.

---

Fox, the link they gave you is Sec6 of the Firearms Act, Reg. You may only store a restricted firearm as described in clause (i)..OR......repeat...OR (ii)....

The CFO doesn't inspect storage facilities unless you request it, are a dealer or a collector, with very few exceptions.
If you stick to the legislation, you won't have a problem. So, no you don't need a trigger lock when storing a restricted firearm in a vault !
I did an inspection of a big collector. He had a room specifically built, with no windows, a steel door and jamb, triple deadbolt locks, and alarmed. He likely couldn't afford a trigger lock for the 100 plus restricteds he had !!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 400bigbear

Sure carry a handgun to look cool to your buddies on your property You need something to protect yourself with and you won't have to feed it anything but lead and a bit of gun oil on ocassion . Tell the officer if you get questioned that I told you this on an open forum and that I am 100 % correct He will know me and that I'm right . He will tell you he has seen me do this regularly .

---

what the hell is your problem?

I REALLY wish firearms owners would stop this "Oh, you better be careful and hide it or someone might call the cops" crap. Stop spreading this filth and putting the idea into shooters heads that we should be hiding our legal activities. In doing so you're simply making the anti's happy. Be proud of your hobby, don't hide it!


RIGHT ON AGREE 100%

Anyone who thinks we should hide legal activities has been listening to or reading the anti propaganda bit too much...[/QUOTE]

Ah huh ok Some are not sharp enuf to catch my dry sarcasm but you sure got caught hook line and sinker on 2 lb test lol thats without even trying and on a rusty dull hook . Lol;):thumbup: Yes god will forgive me ;) And hopefully you lol:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by new2hunting

what the hell is your problem?

---

Lighten up, it was a joke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fox

[FONT=arial]

Just to finish this up. Here is the link the RCMP sent me.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/r...age-3.html#h-4

Their opening statement was as such "The Chief Firearms Officers (CFOs) of the Provinces and Territories have staff that inspect storage facilities for suitability. ".

This to me says that unless they say that your cabinet, vault, room or otherwise meets their inspection that restricted need to be rendered inoperable and stored in a locking container of some sort.

This may not be exactly as expected but if keeping a trigger lock on it keeps it from being confiscated then I will store it with a trigger lock on it.

Do what you want with the information, this email response was as expected.

---

Fox, I am sorry, you are very good at regurgitating data but are still lacking in the breakdown. I have yet to meet an LEO that is such a hardliner as your posts would lead me to believe. Just because something is written it is still open to the discretion of the person actually applying the directives. I think you mean well but I am guessing you are young and lacking wisdom (that defintely comes with age and is a result of making mistake throughout your life:)). As hunters and gun owners we really need to get along better and stop passing judgement on each other so hastily, there is ALWAYS two sides to every story. I am trying to not pass judgement here but after reading many of your posts you try to make things black and white and sorry again but many things in life are just not that way.

I don't know Skeeter, but I have met 2 officers who had absolutely no knowledge of firearms laws to the point that I questioned his ability to enforce any firearm related law.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skeeter1

Fox, I am sorry, you are very good at regurgitating data but are still lacking in the breakdown. I have yet to meet an LEO that is such a hardliner as your posts would lead me to believe. Just because something is written it is still open to the discretion of the person actually applying the directives. I think you mean well but I am guessing you are young and lacking wisdom (that defintely comes with age and is a result of making mistake throughout your life:)). As hunters and gun owners we really need to get along better and stop passing judgement on each other so hastily, there is ALWAYS two sides to every story. I am trying to not pass judgement here but after reading many of your posts you try to make things black and white and sorry again but many things in life are just not that way.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greatwhite

I don't know Skeeter, but I have met 2 officers who had absolutely no knowledge of firearms laws to the point that I questioned his ability to enforce any firearm related law.

---

How did that one end:)?

Absolutely perfect. :). I was right he was 150% wrong. I walked away. He also appoligized.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skeeter1

How did that one end:)?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skeeter1

Fox, I am sorry, you are very good at regurgitating data but are still lacking in the breakdown. I have yet to meet an LEO that is such a hardliner as your posts would lead me to believe. Just because something is written it is still open to the discretion of the person actually applying the directives. I think you mean well but I am guessing you are young and lacking wisdom (that defintely comes with age and is a result of making mistake throughout your life:)). As hunters and gun owners we really need to get along better and stop passing judgement on each other so hastily, there is ALWAYS two sides to every story. I am trying to not pass judgement here but after reading many of your posts you try to make things black and white and sorry again but many things in life are just not that way.

---

Sure, it is up to the discretion of the one enforcing the law, I agree with that 100%. That being said, the person who in enforcing a law that they do not understand in an urban setting may not have the same feelings as those in a rural setting.

Due to the information given to me by the RCMP with regards to the restricted firearms laws I will be storing my restricted firearms in a locked case while rendered inoperable.

You can choose to store your restricted firearms in any way you see fit, I am not one to determine legality of said storage methods.

I have a bit of an issue with local police, numerous times when I was younger I was confronted as a criminal. I have never done anything that would have the police on my door step, I am squeaky clean, but I have been considered the operator of a chop shop. I have been considered a street racer and I have been considered a vandal with absolutely no evidence. I even had the police come into my fathers house when I was 16 to ask me questions without my permission and without my father present. I do not trust that the police know the gun laws, due to a few incidents directly involving firearms so I choose to have my firearms stored in a way that removes all doubt.

Wisdom from experience, no denying that, but when a police officer sees a crossbow and says that it is illegal for you to have that it makes me a little scared for them to see any firearm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fox

I have a bit of an issue with local police, numerous times when I was younger I was confronted as a criminal. I have never done anything that would have the police on my door step, I am squeaky clean, but I have been considered the operator of a chop shop. I have been considered a street racer and I have been considered a vandal with absolutely no evidence. I even had the police come into my fathers house when I was 16 to ask me questions without my permission and without my father present. I do not trust that the police know the gun laws, due to a few incidents directly involving firearms so I choose to have my firearms stored in a way that removes all doubt.

Wisdom from experience, no denying that, but when a police officer sees a crossbow and says that it is illegal for you to have that it makes me a little scared for them to see any firearm.

---

Perhaps it was the crowd you were hanging with? Police don't just pick on someone for no reason. My guess would be that you knew who was doing the deed and they were watching you close?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fox

Sure, it is up to the discretion of the one enforcing the law, I agree with that 100%. That being said, the person who in enforcing a law that they do not understand in an urban setting may not have the same feelings as those in a rural setting.

Due to the information given to me by the RCMP with regards to the restricted firearms laws I will be storing my restricted firearms in a locked case while rendered inoperable.

You can choose to store your restricted firearms in any way you see fit, I am not one to determine legality of said storage methods.

I have a bit of an issue with local police, numerous times when I was younger I was confronted as a criminal. I have never done anything that would have the police on my door step, I am squeaky clean, but I have been considered the operator of a chop shop. I have been considered a street racer and I have been considered a vandal with absolutely no evidence. I even had the police come into my fathers house when I was 16 to ask me questions without my permission and without my father present. I do not trust that the police know the gun laws, due to a few incidents directly involving firearms so I choose to have my firearms stored in a way that removes all doubt.

Wisdom from experience, no denying that, but when a police officer sees a crossbow and says that it is illegal for you to have that it makes me a little scared for them to see any firearm.

---

That post speaks volumes ! At any rate, as long as you understand and follow the regs, you won't have a problem. If you go above and beyond the requirements, all well and good. What concerns me is your attempts to interpret the legislation and post wrong information, on more than one occasion .

......

Well Fox, based on some of the information you have posted, and you claim to have gotten said information from the quoted authorities, you really will have to learn how to listen ! Nuff said !
Oh, BTW.....no "shot" intended !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by new2hunting

what the hell is your problem?

---

Easy there new guy.

Build a repertoire with the guys on here. 400BB is a pretty plain, straight talker, but you obviously missed the fact that he had the sarcasm button engaged.

This may not apply to your own property, but there is a recent campaign to get access to wilderness carry for protection opened up a bit more.

Canadian Wilderness Protection Initiative

http://www.wildernessprotection.ca/


They raised the $10,000 retainer for the lawyer in about a week! Fundraising to $150,000 before the action starts. Some cool chances at giveaways for donations too.

Letter writing campaign to start in the next week, I think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mooboy76

This may not apply to your own property, but there is a recent campaign to get access to wilderness carry for protection opened up a bit more.

Canadian Wilderness Protection Initiative

http://www.wildernessprotection.ca/


They raised the $10,000 retainer for the lawyer in about a week! Fundraising to $150,000 before the action starts. Some cool chances at giveaways for donations too.

Letter writing campaign to start in the next week, I think.

---

Personally I'd rather see that money going to the NFA who have more skin in the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

Easy there new guy.

Build a repertoire with the guys on here. 400BB is a pretty plain, straight talker, but you obviously missed the fact that he had the sarcasm button engaged.

---

I wouldn't put anything passed 400bb that crotchety old man is lucky if he can put his Sox on in the morning...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by topher

I wouldn't put anything passed 400bb that crotchety old man is lucky if he can put his Sox on in the morning...

---

If you knew me at all topher you would realize I don't own socks and even in winter I walk around outside in my bare feet as some here can attest to . Lol as far as being a crotchety old man Well thats because upstarts like you make me that way . Lol:fish:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 400bigbear

If you knew me at all topher you would realize I don't own socks and even in winter I walk around outside in my bare feet as some here can attest to . Lol as far as being a crotchety old man Well thats because upstarts like you make me that way . Lol:fish:

---

I knew you would say you walked bare foot...

I think BB is just all bark and is really a down to earth guy. If I was ever up that way he is someone I would love to meet. I am sure I could learn a lot from him.

Just a shot guys - man am I glad that I live in the good old US of A - where freedom rings - and I can own and carry whenever I want to - just got my renewed right to carry permit - good for 5 years and recognized in 29 different states - just having that right makes me feel good - I do feel for you guys with all your gun restrictions - I really mean it - your buddy JoePa

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greatwhite

I think BB is just all bark and is really a down to earth guy. If I was ever up that way he is someone I would love to meet. I am sure I could learn a lot from him.

---

I hear he gives lessons in wood piling......

No wood pile on the car this year. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pat32rf

I hear he gives lessons in wood piling......

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

Personally I'd rather see that money going to the NFA who have more skin in the game.

---

Different goals sometimes require different tactics. How do you present a 'grassroots' movement if it comes from a professional organization? The NFA is currently doing their best work in their legal challenges, this is not quite the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mooboy76

Different goals sometimes require different tactics. How do you present a 'grassroots' movement if it comes from a professional organization? The NFA is currently doing their best work in their legal challenges, this is not quite the same.

---

1. I don't see this as a "different goal". It involves firearms legislation, and amending same. Something which the NFA has already been lobbying, and has the legal chops to do so.

2. This "grassroots movement" you're referring to has no identifiable mandate. Other than a slick website where donations can be made, and some info on bear attacks, there isn't much substance there. There is no identifiable board of directors, or any actual human names associated with this organization. It is particularly suspect that they haven't sustained any endorsement from an organization like the NFA ( which is free, just saying that we agree with this policy). Nor have they sustained any support or identifiable supporting organizations, other than a few websites and organizations listed. Even their Facebook feed has very little info.

3. There seems to be very little mentioned about this at all. In any reputable venue, save forums like this.


It is for the aforementioned reasons why I think that this would be a "splitting the pie" approach to firearms in Canada. As stated, the NFA already advocates for all firearms owners, and if identified as a viable issue to take to task by its members, the NFA certainly has more going for it, other than a thought, and a website. Given the legal scope involved, persons donating to it have nothing to show for their money, except a vague promise that once they get $150K the ball will get rolling. This organization is also not registered for not for profit status ( I just checked).

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Originally Posted by mooboy76

They raised the $10,000 retainer for the lawyer in about a week!

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What do they think they can do with a lawyer?

If you want to open up wilderness carry, you have to change the law. Challenging the law on the basis of your S. 7 right to security of the person is a non-starter. The courts have ruled on numerous similar arguments, always with the same result. Regulating firearms does not violate your S. 7 rights.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

I think BB is just all bark and is really a down to earth guy. If I was ever up that way he is someone I would love to meet. I am sure I could learn a lot from him.

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I think bb is really a closet sweet heart... I have a feeling he wears tights, and has an umbrella... p

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

1. I don't see this as a "different goal". It involves firearms legislation, and amending same. Something which the NFA has already been lobbying, and has the legal chops to do so.

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The NFA has lots on their plate already, plus this is not a new issue. People have been complaining and grumbling about ATC-3 inconsistencies and issues for years. Another firearms owner set up his own Wilderness handgun carry information campaign and website a couple of years ago, to bring awareness to the issue and try to get support, without much traction.

Yet, I have never read anything regarding ATC-3 and wilderness protection/carry out of the NFA offices. I don't know that it is even on their radar.

Someone has decided to take on this specific issue, outside of their regular employment, and is gaining momentum with support. At this point, it doesn't look like they need the NFA for what they are planning.

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2. This "grassroots movement" you're referring to has no identifiable mandate. Other than a slick website where donations can be made, and some info on bear attacks, there isn't much substance there.

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They have objectives; a bit vague, but I doubt they will lay out their strategy on the website.

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OUR MISSION

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http://www.wildernessprotection.ca/about-us/
To ensure that all outdoor enthusiasts across Canada are offered equal opportunity as citizens to protect their own and other human life during the occurrence of a dangerous animal encounter.

OUR OBJECTIVES

To collaborate with outdoor enthusiasts and organizations across Canada in order to create a unified, powerful and effective movement.

To advocate for the equal right for all Restricted Possession & Acquisition License holders to carry a legal registered holstered handgun on rural and Crown land where a dangerous animal encounter is possible.

To educate about prevention and avoidance strategies that pertain to dangerous animal encounters and the best way to survive an attack via all means possible including a handgun.

To lobby politicians and public officials encouraging them to care about and defend our goals. To remind them that our intrinsic rights in this regard are granted and clarified in the Canadian Charter of Rights & Freedoms sections 7, 12 & 15.

To take action in a legal manner that works effectively towards policy or legislative change in order to reclaim our right to carry a legal registered handgun on rural and Crown land for wilderness protection of human life.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

There is no identifiable board of directors, or any actual human names associated with this organization. It is particularly suspect that they haven't sustained any endorsement from an organization like the NFA ( which is free, just saying that we agree with this policy). Nor have they sustained any support or identifiable supporting organizations, other than a few websites and organizations listed. Even their Facebook feed has very little info.

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The last I read, they were putting together the BoD, but I haven't seen an update on that. As for the NFA, or other like group, endorsement, I think that was covered previously. Even adding a 'stamp of approval' from a professional organization could taint the fact that this is an issue being raised by Joe Blow Canuck.

Can't find it on the website, but Joe Blow Canuck is Steve Boissoin in AB, working in modular home designs and sales.

The laywer handling this, and the firm holding the funds in trust, is Gerry Chipeur at Miller Thomson, LLP

http://www.millerthomson.com/en/our-...rald-d-chipeur

I've read indirectly that Ed Burlew supports this initiative (other forum post by his also-lawyer wife), but you are right that there does not yet appear to be a list of supporting organizations. Wilderness Rod & Tackle in Red Deer, Alberta, is the company that has donated the three rifle/scope packages so far.

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3. There seems to be very little mentioned about this at all. In any reputable venue, save forums like this.

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That's true, and it may be due the fact that this whole thing kicked off at the end of October of this year; the website is three weeks old - set up with the initial donations after the retainer, and the facebook group is only two months old.

Nothing wrong with being wary though.

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It is for the aforementioned reasons why I think that this would be a "splitting the pie" approach to firearms in Canada. As stated, the NFA already advocates for all firearms owners, and if identified as a viable issue to take to task by its members, the NFA certainly has more going for it, other than a thought, and a website. Given the legal scope involved, persons donating to it have nothing to show for their money, except a vague promise that once they get $150K the ball will get rolling. This organization is also not registered for not for profit status ( I just checked).

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The pie is already split, and it doesn't look like anybody is eating this piece. The NFA is not a panacea for firearms issues, they have their strengths and are playing to them right now. The NFA also seems to be on the outs with the some key politicians, and their message might be muted because of that.

Hopefully the updates are forthcoming soon for the Canadian Wilderness Protection Initiative, so that people can have that transparency and reassurance that is currently lacking.

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Originally Posted by welsh

What do they think they can do with a lawyer?

If you want to open up wilderness carry, you have to change the law. Challenging the law on the basis of your S. 7 right to security of the person is a non-starter. The courts have ruled on numerous similar arguments, always with the same result. Regulating firearms does not violate your S. 7 rights.

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Honestly, I don't know what their strategy is. Other than it has now entered phase two, with an introduction-type letter campaign. I don't like that the letter campaign includes a ringing endorsement of C-42, but amendments at committee are still an option, as are regulations of the Act. If C-42 actually ascends, then there are always options for further amendments to the Firearms Act in a later Parliamentary session.
First Letter Campaign
http://www.wildernessprotection.ca/be-heard/


The lawyer's accolades seem to suggest that he is professional, so I don't think he would take this on if he thought it was a damp squib:

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http://www.millerthomson.com/en/our-...rald-d-chipeur

• Bachelor of Laws (1984) and Master of Laws (1990) from University of Alberta Law School
• Past Chair and Co-chair for a number of Canadian Bar Association committees, including the national Constitutional and Human Rights Law Section and the Canada for Tomorrow Committee of the Alberta Branch of the Canadian Bar Association
• Member, Federal Judicial Advisory Committee for Alberta, 2006-2008
• Served as an adjunct professor at Canadian University College, 1993-1997
• Appointed Queen’s Counsel, 2006
• Awarded Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal in 2012 for public service to Canada
• The Canadian Legal Lexpert® Directory, Litigation - Public, 2014

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Like I wrote above, it is good to be wary, but I think it would be a good thing if this got initiative got some legs.

I have not donated yet, but will after my second January pay.

Looks like this topic is in another thread now, I will post my reply in both in case you want to reply in that thread.

http://www.oodmag.com/community/show...ry-in-the-Bush