Cabelas in Barrie selling traps to anyone!

Just came back from Cabelas in Barrie, and was shocked to see traps being sold to anyone. Complete snares, Ram power snares, legholds, body-grippers. No request for trapper's licence validation, or farmer's OMAFRA card. These people would immediately be in violation of section 24 of the OFWA, the second they took possession of the traps at the cashier desk. There's no notice posted on the shelves, and they don't notify the purchasers that they are about to commit an offence. The trapping industry is already under enough public scrutiny as it is, without having a bunch of untrained people, potentially setting lethal equipment in urban areas. Trappers will no doubt get the black eye when someone's cat or dog gets killed in the city. I have visions of some idiot setting 220s in their downtown backyard, or snares in the local woodlot. Maybe I'll give MNR a call. The last time I checked the regs, it is an offence to even be in possession of an operable trap, unless you are a licenced trapper, a farmer on their property, or someone who's held a trapping licence in the last 5 year period.
Can anyone else comment on this?

Dave

Just did a lot of searching online, found nothing stating it is illegal for an Ontario resident to own or poses traps or snares. Could be I didn't look in the right place, but I found nothing. It did very clearly state it is illegal to trap fur bearing mammals without a trapping license. It may be one of those grey areas like with fertilizer or certain steroids, use of such products is strictly regulated, but possession is not illegal. Still, clarifying with the MNRF may be a good idea for anyone considering purchasing such products without a trapping license.

It is certainly not illegal to sell them.

Fenelon, I agree with you! However in the most recent years, I have noticed a lot of places not asking for trapping licence number, or advising it is illegal to possess.

27. (1) A person shall not possess a body-gripping trap unless the person,
(a) is lawfully entitled to use the trap;
(b) was lawfully entitled to use the trap within the five years preceding the date on which the person was found to be in possession of the body-gripping trap;
(c) engages in activities related to the manufacture, repair, sale, transportation or storage of the traps or the conduct of research with respect to those traps;
(d) is a collector of traps and the trap is rendered incapable of being used for trapping; or
(e) possesses the traps for educational purposes in the course of employment by an educational institution or government. O. Reg. 667/98, s. 27 (1).
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to traps in a museum or public display if most of the funding for the museum or display comes from a government in Canada. O. Reg. 667/98, s. 27 (2).

“body-gripping trap” means a device designed to capture or kill an animal by seizing and holding it by a part of its body, and includes a spring trap, steel trap, gin, deadfall, snare or leghold trap but does not include a device designed to capture or kill a mouse or rat;

C) is pretty vague, what is required to prove you are involved with the storage of traps?

Also, where is this info from? I'm more or less wondering how I didn't find it? I googled "trapping regulations Ontario", "trapping for meat" and "trapping for hunting" and searched through various results. I'm admittedly not the best when it comes to efficient web searches, so any opportunity to learn more I will take.

I bought some for my dad years ago to bring back home and no question were asked. I guess I should buy some more just in case they become no more available, thanks.

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Originally Posted by JDRC

C) is pretty vague, what is required to prove you are involved with the storage of traps?

Also, where is this info from? I'm more or less wondering how I didn't find it? I googled "trapping regulations Ontario", "trapping for meat" and "trapping for hunting" and searched through various results. I'm admittedly not the best when it comes to efficient web searches, so any opportunity to learn more I will take.

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That info is directly from the fish and wildlife conservation act

Asked them about a similar thing when I saw electronic turkey and duck calls for sale. They said its not illegal to sell them and besides you can use them for training aids nudge nudge wink wink. Then when the regs change to only artificial scents for deer can be used they still kept the natural ones saying it can still be used elsewhere. Definititly a store where buyer be ware and well poachers and get equipped.

ya i just stopped in at cabelas last friday for the 1st time and was surprised to see the traps... i know the transcanada trapline requires a trapping license or proof of farming to sell you a trap...

Lets start rallying the liberals again for the next election......bring back the gun registry........ but we won't rest until we get all traps, fishing poles, lures and hunting knives included!!!!!

This site is unreal!!!! Bunch of libtards!!

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Originally Posted by Blakev

Fenelon, I agree with you! However in the most recent years, I have noticed a lot of places not asking for trapping licence number, or advising it is illegal to possess.

27. (1) A person shall not possess a body-gripping trap unless the person,
(a) is lawfully entitled to use the trap;
(b) was lawfully entitled to use the trap within the five years preceding the date on which the person was found to be in possession of the body-gripping trap;
(c) engages in activities related to the manufacture, repair, sale, transportation or storage of the traps or the conduct of research with respect to those traps;
(d) is a collector of traps and the trap is rendered incapable of being used for trapping; or
(e) possesses the traps for educational purposes in the course of employment by an educational institution or government. O. Reg. 667/98, s. 27 (1).
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to traps in a museum or public display if most of the funding for the museum or display comes from a government in Canada. O. Reg. 667/98, s. 27 (2).

“body-gripping trap” means a device designed to capture or kill an animal by seizing and holding it by a part of its body, and includes a spring trap, steel trap, gin, deadfall, snare or leghold trap but does not include a device designed to capture or kill a mouse or rat;

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Where did you find this? My current copy of the FWCA has Sect 27 as covering Birds of Prey.

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Originally Posted by duckslayer

Lets start rallying the liberals again for the next election......bring back the gun registry........ but we won't rest until we get all traps, fishing poles, lures and hunting knives included!!!!!

This site is unreal!!!! Bunch of libtards!!

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With comment like that you must be a poacher!!!! lol....

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

Just came back from Cabelas in Barrie, and was shocked to see traps being sold to anyone. Complete snares, Ram power snares, legholds, body-grippers. No request for trapper's licence validation, or farmer's OMAFRA card. These people would immediately be in violation of section 24 of the OFWA, the second they took possession of the traps at the cashier desk. There's no notice posted on the shelves, and they don't notify the purchasers that they are about to commit an offence. The trapping industry is already under enough public scrutiny as it is, without having a bunch of untrained people, potentially setting lethal equipment in urban areas. Trappers will no doubt get the black eye when someone's cat or dog gets killed in the city. I have visions of some idiot setting 220s in their downtown backyard, or snares in the local woodlot. Maybe I'll give MNR a call. The last time I checked the regs, it is an offence to even be in possession of an operable trap, unless you are a licenced trapper, a farmer on their property, or someone who's held a trapping licence in the last 5 year period.
Can anyone else comment on this?

Dave

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With respect there Dave, did you even speak to someone in the store? Or send a email / letter to Cabelas Canada?

Seems to me, that that should have been your first step, before coming on here full of rightous indignation, and threatening to "call the MNR".

Cabelas Canada is a US owned subsidiary. They may have a few gaffs with respect to retailing all their product lines and being in the know on all FWCA regs. They know they can import them, they probably assumed that anyone purchasing same would be in the know.

Be a part of the solution, not a very vocal complainer.

I'm going to boycott cabelas until this unjustice is corrected..
Shame shame on them for making a buck..
This is about as pathetic as the package that had a note written in it... start a crusade about something that matters..
Kinda like Canadian tire selling snare wire with to big if a gauge.. oh and in areas where you can't legal use it...

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Originally Posted by topher

I'm going to boycott cabelas until this unjustice is corrected..
Shame shame on them for making a buck..
This is about as pathetic as the package that had a note written in it... start a crusade about something that matters..
Kinda like Canadian tire selling snare wire with to big if a gauge.. oh and in areas where you can't legal use it...

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Good lord! You're right Topher! I saw some in my local CT the other day.......and we're well South of the French and Mattawa Rivers......

However.. now I know where to get traps.. thanx for the info!
Do they come with instructions for use?

I spoke to the employee who is in charge of the trapping section, and voiced my concerns to him about the general public having access to restricted equipment. His only response was that Cabelas had thoroughly checked this out before stocking, so he was sure it was totally OK. I told him that it definately is not OK to be allowing the general public to purchase the traps, informed him of the section under the FWCA, and let him know what the purchase policy is at every Ontario trap supply retailer. Spoke to him for a good 15mins on the matter and he said it had all been researched. I was not the first trapper to approach him on this, so he had already heard the concerns from other customers who had come into the store. I don't think you guys that don't trap understand the implications of this occurring. Offence aside, and the fact some some unknowing person has not been informed that they are breaking the law, the damage that will occur from this will have a big negative impact on all trappers, and the fur industry. It's already under total 24/7 scrutiny from the general public, and esp. anti groups. Even one single negative incident does major damage, at a time when major efforts have been made to improve things (AIHTS, trap certification and testing program, new regs under the FWCA, upgraded course instructor training, new trap research and certification of "pet friendly" equipment, etc., etc.). Imagine the impact of some untrained/unlicenced person buying lethal kill traps at Cabelas, and setting them in their backyard beside your house. Guess who gets the black eye when the first dog or cat is dead in a snare, or a 220. Imagine it's your own pet. Then it goes viral on the social media. Something the trapping industry definately does not need. Time to Let MNR and OFMF Ontario Fur Managers Federation handle this.

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

Imagine some untrained/unlicenced person buying lethal kill traps at Cabelas, and setting them in their backyard beside your house.

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Exactly.why I want some traps.. these d4mn coyote are driving me bonkers.. to the point where it's effecting my sleep.

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

I spoke to the employee who is in charge of the trapping section, and voiced my concerns to him about the general public having access to restricted equipment. His only response was that Cabelas had thoroughly checked this out before stocking, so he was sure it was totally OK. I told him that it definately is not OK to be allowing the general public to purchase the traps, informed him of the section under the FWCA, and let him know what the purchase policy is at every Ontario trap supply retailer. Spoke to him for a good 15mins on the matter and he said it had all been researched. I was not the first trapper to approach him on this, so he had already heard the concerns from other customers who had come into the store. I don't think you guys that don't trap understand the implications of this occurring. Offence aside, and the fact some some unknowing person has not been informed that they are breaking the law, the damage that will occur from this will have a big negative impact on all trappers, and the fur industry. It's already under total 24/7 scrutiny from the general public, and esp. anti groups. Even one single negative incident does major damage, at a time when major efforts have been made to improve things (AIHTS, trap certification and testing program, new regs under the FWCA, upgraded course instructor training, new trap research and certification of "pet friendly" equipment, etc., etc.). Imagine the impact of some untrained/unlicenced person buying lethal kill traps at Cabelas, and setting them in their backyard beside your house. Guess who gets the black eye when the first dog or cat is dead in a snare, or a 220. Imagine it's your own pet. Then it goes viral on the social media. Something the trapping industry definately does not need. Time to Let MNR and OFMF Ontario Fur Managers Federation handle this.

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Big companies,like Cabelas,don't make regulatory mistakes with the merchandise they sell. That's why they pay three floors of corporate lawyers to check this stuff out to be sure everything that they do is legal and above board. I'm inclined to agree with the sales staffer. I'm not entirely convinced that the laws cited here are still in force because I can't find,anywhere,in the "new" FWCA or any Ontario regulations,that it states only licensed individuals may be in possession of traps or that it's an offence to sell that equipment.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

OK, so you saw something wrong, and left it with the sales associate who was working in that section? Really? Interesting that you omitted that entire piece from your original post.

Sorry if it seems like I'm flaming you pal. But if this is really such an issue with you, and your concern is genuine, then written communication to Cabelas ( as I already demonstrated) is the best course of action. You then have a traceable piece of communication that can be followed up on. You spoke to the sales associate in the store? That was your solution? With respect, if there's something wrong with how a place conducts their business whether it be a restaurant, home improvement store, or an outdoors supplier, you DO NOT DEAL WITH THE SALES STAFF. All they can do is nod their heads. Ever hear of asking for the manager? At the outcome of the conversation with the manager, you then let them know you'll be following up with a written communication, and copying head office.

Either this is a bona-fide concern for you, or it isn't. Either treat it as such, or quit complaining.

"Time to let MNR and OFMF handle this".......right, because you already talked to the guy whos basic function is to hand you the product, and get you out the door.....because he's the guy that can resolve it.

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You wrote a letter to cabelas based on incomplete third party information and now you're flaming the OP because he did not provide you with the full story? You should get all your facts straight before accusing cabelas of breaking the law. That's on you. Where does it say Cabelas can't sell traps? What a person does with the traps after being purchased is on them. Stop blaming the retailer without any concrete evidence of wrongdoing.

Actually, after review of the complete FWCA. Cabelas is in their right to do so. The Reg was amended some time ago.

Not sure where the OP got their info, but obviously an old copy of the reg, as the most current one has this little gem in it...

Farmers
(3) Despite subsection (1)’s requirement for a licence, a farmer or a member of a farmer’s family who resides with the farmer may, during the open season and without a licence, on the farmer’s land,
(a) hunt or trap furbearing mammals;
(b) hunt or trap game mammals, other than big game;
(c) hunt game birds, other than wild turkey;
(d) hunt or trap game reptiles or game amphibians;
(e) hunt birds referred to in subsection 5 (2); and
(f) hunt wildlife referred to in clause (1) (h). 1997, c. 41, s. 6 (3); 2009, c. 33, Sched. 22, s. 2 (9).
Exception
(4) Despite subsection (1), a person may hunt or trap wildlife referred to in subsection (1) without a licence in the circumstances prescribed by the regulations. 2012, c. 8, Sched. 16, s. 1.

Looks to me like you can just walk in and buy them without license, use of which to be subject to the regs.

Previous posts deleted for this reason. Apologies to the OP.

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Originally Posted by Numpty

You wrote a letter to cabelas based on incomplete third party information and now you're flaming the OP because he did not provide you with the full story? You should get all your facts straight before accusing cabelas of breaking the law. That's on you. Where does it say Cabelas can't sell traps? What a person does with the traps after being purchased is on them. Stop blaming the retailer without any concrete evidence of wrongdoing.

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Read the entire thread, obviously excluding my deleted posts. The communication sent to cabelas was in the context of this discussion, and the concern that was raised.

At no point did I blame the retailer, as a matter of fact I support Cabelas ( just about every week).

Quit being so darn adversarial on here new guy. You're now at 11 posts, none of which have contributed much....

Trimmer:
Go to Elaws website. It's a good one, as it lists all consolidated statutes and regulations.
http://www.search.e-laws.gov.on.ca/e...&context=#hit1
Here's the regulation under the FWCA that covers trapping. You can also visit the Ontario Fur Managers Federation to view it. As per my original post, a farmer is also legal to be in possession and use traps on their own property. You need to meet the def. of farmer under the act, not just be a land owner. This is not a new deal. It's been the law as long as I've been licenced (1986). They will periodically ammend the regs (looks like it was most recently done in Sept. of this year). The ammended sections usually appear in red if you scroll thru the entire deal.

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

Trimmer:
Go to Elaws website. It's a good one, as it lists all consolidated statutes and regulations.
http://www.search.e-laws.gov.on.ca/e...&context=#hit1
Here's the regulation under the FWCA that covers trapping. You can also visit the Ontario Fur Managers Federation to view it. As per my original post, a farmer is also legal to be in possession and use traps on their own property. You need to meet the def. of farmer under the act, not just be a land owner. This is not a new deal. It's been the law as long as I've been licenced (1986). They will periodically ammend the regs (looks like it was most recently done in Sept. of this year). The ammended sections usually appear in red if you scroll thru the entire deal.

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Wouldn't it then be difficult to render any confirmation when purchasing traps, since the permitted persons are farmers, or any person residing on the farm, without any license?

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

Trimmer:
Go to Elaws website. It's a good one, as it lists all consolidated statutes and regulations.
http://www.search.e-laws.gov.on.ca/e...&context=#hit1
Here's the regulation under the FWCA that covers trapping. You can also visit the Ontario Fur Managers Federation to view it. As per my original post, a farmer is also legal to be in possession and use traps on their own property. You need to meet the def. of farmer under the act, not just be a land owner. This is not a new deal. It's been the law as long as I've been licenced (1986). They will periodically ammend the regs (looks like it was most recently done in Sept. of this year). The ammended sections usually appear in red if you scroll thru the entire deal.

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I have downloaded the enitre FWCA from the e-laws website and,for the life of me,I can't find that particular section as described where it's an offense to be in possession of traps without a trappers license.

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Originally Posted by duckslayer

Lets start rallying the liberals again for the next election......bring back the gun registry........ but we won't rest until we get all traps, fishing poles, lures and hunting knives included!!!!!

This site is unreal!!!! Bunch of libtards!!

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so i guess we should start selling firearms to anybody whether they have a license or have had any instruction on their use? have you ever set a conniber trap? if not please come to my place so i can video tape you the first time :)

Trimmer:
Go to elaws - click on the search box option "current consolidated regulations", then typoe in "trapping" for the search. Pick O.Reg 667/98. The section regarding trap possession should be section 27.
re: confirmation - all of the trap supply companies I buy at make you show proof of authorization - either a trapping licence from the past 5 year block, or an OMAFRA card (not sure if I got the acronym right). If Timmy, the farmer's son wants to buy traps, then Timmy must still show the family OMAFRA card. You'd have to clear it with a CO, but I believe it can't just be anyone residing. It has to be immediate family, no renters or tenants, etc. This is how the trap supply company gets their lawyer to show in court that they practised due dilligence when the litigation begins eg. - this is the type of thing that's happened numerous times recently - hypothetical example - the unauthorized neighbour goes and buys traps at Cabelas. Cabelas is fully aware of the regulations regarding unauthorized possession, but they sell them to this person anyway. Instead of controlling the equipment at the point of sale, they figure the responsibility is on the individual to know the law. The untrained neighbour sets a 220 in his backyard, on the ground, and Buffy, your apricot poodle goes and sticks his head in the trap. Your neighbour gets charged under section 27 of the regs, then you take it farther with civil action. Your neighbour screams bloody murder, saying that they didn't know it was against the law to possess the traps. Why would a reputable place like Cabelas knowingly sell this equipment to an unlicenced person? Cabelas now enters what is called a due dilligence s$#t storm. Everybody loses. The poor neighbour who wasn't notified that he was about to become a criminal and be charged. The person who had their pet killed. Any other animal that happens to get into the traps and gets inhumanely caught, the image of Cabelas via social media. The biggest, and saddest loser in all of this will be Joe Trapper and the trapping industry. no need for this to happen. IMO Cabelas should do what everyone else is doing - pull the traps from the open, unattended shelves, put them behind the desk like the guns, and put up a sign to tell the people that you need to be authorized to be in possession. A simple licence or card check, then hand the person the traps for cash-out.

Was a lad just busted in Port Perry/Scugog area for trapping offences Cost him 5 grand according to the MNR Fb page .

Here you go. http://mnrwatch.com/scugog-man-fined...-for-one-year/

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Originally Posted by smitty55

Here you go. http://mnrwatch.com/scugog-man-fined...-for-one-year/

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Nowhere in any of that did it indicate he was charged with "unlawful possession"

It probably wouldn't, if the guy had held a licence in the past 5 year period.

i noticed in the tsc flyer last week, that they had live coyote traps... dont know about you, but i sure wouldnt be too fond of standing there and holding that trap door open so that wiley could run free haha

You can buy traps all over the internet. EBay Amazon kijiji you name it they are all there . Good luck with this guys im staying out of it.

In answer to cabellas RE traps.The MNR supervisor at midhurst contacted the store manager RE traps and informed him that legally they can sell them, but anyone without a Lic cannot possess. And he agreed they shoul;dnt be selling them.They have a trapper on staff who will advise them in any future changes.To me its is strange that you can buy them but not possess them as you will be charged.

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Originally Posted by trapper

In answer to cabellas RE traps.The MNR supervisor at midhurst contacted the store manager RE traps and informed him that legally they can sell them, but anyone without a Lic cannot possess. And he agreed they shoul;dnt be selling them.They have a trapper on staff who will advise them in any future changes.To me its is strange that you can buy them but not possess them as you will be charged.

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Ammunition can be possessed without a pal.. however, it requires a license to aquire by any means.
Just another messed up law.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

Nowhere in any of that did it indicate he was charged with "unlawful possession"

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he had a license, but was trapping where he did not have permission to be trapping...

like fenelon said, they should just put the traps with the guns and ask for a license to sell the traps, not only the fact that somebody could trap a dog or cat in downtown barrie, its also the safety aspect, traps are dangerous, and joe blow off the streets walking in, and buying a conniber, then taking it out into the bush, has a good chance of breaking a bone...

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

Trimmer:
Go to elaws - click on the search box option "current consolidated regulations", then typoe in "trapping" for the search. Pick O.Reg 667/98. The section regarding trap possession should be section 27.
re: confirmation - all of the trap supply companies I buy at make you show proof of authorization - either a trapping licence from the past 5 year block, or an OMAFRA card (not sure if I got the acronym right). If Timmy, the farmer's son wants to buy traps, then Timmy must still show the family OMAFRA card. You'd have to clear it with a CO, but I believe it can't just be anyone residing. It has to be immediate family, no renters or tenants, etc. This is how the trap supply company gets their lawyer to show in court that they practised due dilligence when the litigation begins eg. - this is the type of thing that's happened numerous times recently - hypothetical example - the unauthorized neighbour goes and buys traps at Cabelas. Cabelas is fully aware of the regulations regarding unauthorized possession, but they sell them to this person anyway. Instead of controlling the equipment at the point of sale, they figure the responsibility is on the individual to know the law. The untrained neighbour sets a 220 in his backyard, on the ground, and Buffy, your apricot poodle goes and sticks his head in the trap. Your neighbour gets charged under section 27 of the regs, then you take it farther with civil action. Your neighbour screams bloody murder, saying that they didn't know it was against the law to possess the traps. Why would a reputable place like Cabelas knowingly sell this equipment to an unlicenced person? Cabelas now enters what is called a due dilligence s$#t storm. Everybody loses. The poor neighbour who wasn't notified that he was about to become a criminal and be charged. The person who had their pet killed. Any other animal that happens to get into the traps and gets inhumanely caught, the image of Cabelas via social media. The biggest, and saddest loser in all of this will be Joe Trapper and the trapping industry. no need for this to happen. IMO Cabelas should do what everyone else is doing - pull the traps from the open, unattended shelves, put them behind the desk like the guns, and put up a sign to tell the people that you need to be authorized to be in possession. A simple licence or card check, then hand the person the traps for cash-out.

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Thanks a million,Fenelon. I have it. I've never been involved in trapping,so,I'm getting an education.

Licenced trappers need to be protected. They are operating under strict regulations and it doesnt seem correct that the average Joe can step on his toes. Cabelas as a major retailer in the hunting/fishing lifestyle need to make a distinction between responsible partnership with the industry - or - just making the most money they can.

I guess I'm sitting on the fence for this one.....

I understand that a trappers job is not getting any easier. Trappers seem to have eyes watching them from every direction. That being said can someone explain why the average guy say with a PAL shouldn't be allowed to own traps? I saw the post where somebody mentioned joe blow trapping a dog or a cat in a residential area, could they not just shoot it too? I mean weve all backed the "if guns kill people mine are defective" line yet it seems that traps will just get out there and set themselves for the neighbours dog. A conibear is not any more dangerous than a firearm, bow or car for that matter when they are in the wrong persons hands.

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Originally Posted by oaknut

I guess I'm sitting on the fence for this one.....

I understand that a trappers job is not getting any easier. Trappers seem to have eyes watching them from every direction. That being said can someone explain why the average guy say with a PAL shouldn't be allowed to own traps? I saw the post where somebody mentioned joe blow trapping a dog or a cat in a residential area, could they not just shoot it too? I mean weve all backed the "if guns kill people mine are defective" line yet it seems that traps will just get out there and set themselves for the neighbours dog. A conibear is not any more dangerous than a firearm, bow or car for that matter when they are in the wrong persons hands.

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I'm pretty much with you on that...except that a firearm has reasonable uses outside of shooting the neighbours dog/cat. A trap doesn't have much use unless you set it - which would be illegal in most cases - if you are not a farmer or trapper. I guess one thing that falls through the cracks with the trapping is that you appear to be registered with a OMFRA to count as a farmer w.r.t. trapping. With other predator control laws, you only need to own poultry/livestock.

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Originally Posted by fishy steve

so i guess we should start selling firearms to anybody whether they have a license or have had any instruction on their use? have you ever set a conniber trap? if not please come to my place so i can video tape you the first time :)

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As a matter of fact yes I have and I hunt with a couple of guys who trap. Yes please lets bring firearms into this thread...............as I said before bunch of libtards..............

Thought about this last night, and from a retailer's and outdoorsman's point of view, the current regs for trap possession are pretty unique. There are lots of examples of restricted equipment that is available, can be legally sold to the public, and the responsibility is that of the individual, to be aware of the laws pertaining to its use.

eg.
Crappy Tire - you can buy seine nets and spear heads. It's up to the buyer to know that neither can be legally used under the fishing regs. Outcome? - you'll get personally charged if you're using them fishing, and I guess the resource takes a hit. No offence for general possession.

Bass Pro - electronic calls for turkey, fake plastic corn cobs for waterfowl - same deal. It's up to the individual to be aware of the regs. Again, you'll get personally charged, and it may increase your harvest rate. No offence for possession.

Traps - actually quite unique. Retailer is still relying on you to be aware of the laws, as above, but in this case you are breaking the law by merely being in possession of them. eg. you're a crook as soon as they hand you the bag at the till. The end result is the big difference. If you take it further, and are unfortunate enough to actually use the equipment, the implications are major if a non-target animal/pet gets killed in your set. Everyone takes a hit on this, esp. the trapping industry. If it involves a pet, then it usually is no longer a simple provincial offences ticket. You're looking at lawyer fees, settlement, and the stress, loss of income, etc. when you get pulled into court.
Maybe it's time for the MNR to ammend the FWCA, and add some new section pertaining to retail distribution of traps. It wouldn't be any different than what the process is now at most suppliers.
If anyone is heading to Cabelas, maybe let us know if their trap sale policy has changed.

You can be charged with having a spring gaff within 30 m of the water, you do not need to be fishing with it. So possession is enough to be found guilty. regs. page 12.

I don't think the trapping industry will take a hit if some jackass in the city gets his neighbors cat with a conibear trap unless the person is actually a trapper.

I can just imagine the outrage from the trapping industry if the MNRF pulled the names and addresses of "retired" trappers who have not had a trapping license for the past 5 years and started processing illegal possession charges for guys having a shed full of old rusty traps. Heck there are probably a bunch of widows that could get pinched for this as well.

I have seen a few bear traps for sale and know of a few in rec rooms on display?

Week I guess I should be charged than.. stl have my grandfather's old muskrat traps.. haven't been used since 1964.. dunno if they work, but I guess it's illegal for me to have these right?

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Originally Posted by topher

Week I guess I should be charged than.. stl have my grandfather's old muskrat traps.. haven't been used since 1964.. dunno if they work, but I guess it's illegal for me to have these right?

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Probably just render them inoperable by removing spring, or tac weld across the closed jaws, then GTG?

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Originally Posted by Fenelon

Thought about this last night, and from a retailer's and outdoorsman's point of view, the current regs for trap possession are pretty unique. There are lots of examples of restricted equipment that is available, can be legally sold to the public, and the responsibility is that of the individual, to be aware of the laws pertaining to its use.

eg.
Crappy Tire - you can buy seine nets and spear heads. It's up to the buyer to know that neither can be legally used under the fishing regs. Outcome? - you'll get personally charged if you're using them fishing, and I guess the resource takes a hit. No offence for general possession.

Bass Pro - electronic calls for turkey, fake plastic corn cobs for waterfowl - same deal. It's up to the individual to be aware of the regs. Again, you'll get personally charged, and it may increase your harvest rate. No offence for possession.

Traps - actually quite unique. Retailer is still relying on you to be aware of the laws, as above, but in this case you are breaking the law by merely being in possession of them. eg. you're a crook as soon as they hand you the bag at the till. The end result is the big difference. If you take it further, and are unfortunate enough to actually use the equipment, the implications are major if a non-target animal/pet gets killed in your set. Everyone takes a hit on this, esp. the trapping industry. If it involves a pet, then it usually is no longer a simple provincial offences ticket. You're looking at lawyer fees, settlement, and the stress, loss of income, etc. when you get pulled into court.
Maybe it's time for the MNR to ammend the FWCA, and add some new section pertaining to retail distribution of traps. It wouldn't be any different than what the process is now at most suppliers.
If anyone is heading to Cabelas, maybe let us know if their trap sale policy has changed.

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Seines and spears are permitted for certain species.

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Originally Posted by tracker

I have seen a few bear traps for sale and know of a few in rec rooms on display?

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The Springs are heated and flattened down so the trap looks like it is set. In most cases the springs now hold the jaws open. Real conversation pieces.

I imagine if they ever did change the trap regs to require authorization validation by retailers, it would only be able to apply to new purchases from that date on. I agree - there's lots of cases where people have old traps out in the shed, or like previously said, a trapper lets their licence go past 5 years. Re: seine and spear - I need to read the regs more often. I didn't realize you could use a seine unless you were a commercial baitfish operator. Didn't realize you could use them for smelt either. Will have to save my back this spring, and try a seine, instead of trashing my rotator again with the square smelt net lifting. Didn't realize you could spear carp in the Kawarthas either. I can only imagine the hassel you'd get doing this in front of the cottagers ! You have constant resentment going on, even when you're just using the bow.

Re: seine and spear in Zone 17. Does anyone know if this changed when Division 6 became Zone 17? For some reason, I don't remember either method being legal back when the kawarthas was a division.

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Originally Posted by oaknut

I guess I'm sitting on the fence for this one.....

I understand that a trappers job is not getting any easier. Trappers seem to have eyes watching them from every direction. That being said can someone explain why the average guy say with a PAL shouldn't be allowed to own traps? I saw the post where somebody mentioned joe blow trapping a dog or a cat in a residential area, could they not just shoot it too? I mean weve all backed the "if guns kill people mine are defective" line yet it seems that traps will just get out there and set themselves for the neighbours dog. A conibear is not any more dangerous than a firearm, bow or car for that matter when they are in the wrong persons hands.

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for me as mentioned before its a safety thing... in order to get your PAl license you need to demonstrate safe handling of firearms, so maybe if they added a trapping requirement to the PAL license then ya, otherwise only licensed trappers should handle traps...

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Originally Posted by fishy steve

for me as mentioned before its a safety thing... in order to get your PAl license you need to demonstrate safe handling of firearms, so maybe if they added a trapping requirement to the PAL license then ya, otherwise only licensed trappers should handle traps...

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Not trying to sound superior or like an azz with this but..... are people really that slow they can't figure out how to work a trap? They really are not that complex.

You do make a good point though. An option when you are taking the outdoors course could be a trapping section.

no not real complex... but connibers if not handled properly, could very easily end up with a broken bone... and if you were never given any instruction on their use other then by the girl at the cashier at cabelas...

plus i know people i wouldnt lend a mouse trap to, let alone a conniber lol

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Originally Posted by fishy steve

plus i know people i wouldnt lend a mouse trap to, let alone a conniber lol

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..LOL...yea know a few myself !!!

I do confess, every time I set a mouse trap, I pull my hand away with lightning speed……and sometimes still get caught……..

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Originally Posted by chico

When I took my trappers course in the spring, Kathy Richardson, an Mnr specialist responsible for trapping in the Guelph district, attended and clarified this for us. The law requiring you to have a license in order to purchase traps had been rescinded. When the topic was brought up at a meeting in Abbington by a newbie trapper, a room full of season and veteran trappers scoffed at the remark. Only to be educated by the individual that signs their license. You do however require a licence to "SET" the trap. That's like saying light the cigarette but don't inhale. It gives the average person the ability to buy and old trap, a wall hanger, for decoration. It doesn't make sense though to be able to buy a new one, yet not be allowed to use it.

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Some laws don't make sense. Along with you can buy a trap but can't use with out a license... You can't get an ATT (authorization to transport) permit for a hand gun, unless you own the hand gun. First time hand gun owners have to purchase a gun, have it delivered to their home by a bonded carrier, and then apply for the ATT and hope they get it. I don't know anyone who has not got one when they applied, but there a loop hole there.

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Originally Posted by B Wilson

Some laws don't make sense. Along with you can buy a trap but can't use with out a license... You can't get an ATT (authorization to transport) permit for a hand gun, unless you own the hand gun. First time hand gun owners have to purchase a gun, have it delivered to their home by a bonded carrier, and then apply for the ATT and hope they get it. I don't know anyone who has not got one when they applied, but there a loop hole there.

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The first handgun I got I traded some work for it. The ATTis applied for at time of transfer of ownership and I brought it home the week after when ATT came in the mail. I don't know what you mean by needing to use a bonded carrier?

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Originally Posted by chris1395

The first handgun I got I traded some work for it. The ATTis applied for at time of transfer of ownership and I brought it home the week after when ATT came in the mail. I don't know what you mean by needing to use a bonded carrier?

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That's exactly what I mean, you have to buy the gun first.

Bonded carrier meaning Canada Post or Purolator if you are not going to drive back to the store and get it yourself. For me, I was not going to drive 4 hours each way again.

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Originally Posted by B Wilson

That's exactly what I mean, you have to buy the gun first.

Bonded carrier meaning Canada Post or Purolator if you are not going to drive back to the store and get it yourself. For me, I was not going to drive 4 hours each way again.

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Ok gotcha

Holy cow(this thread) theres 10 minutes of my life i'll never get back!

We go up to Parry Sound and spear suckers in the spring. Have to do it during day light hours.

How do we know that any of the people buying traps in Cabelas don't have licenses. Yes an unlicensed person can buy one legally....just can't possess it unless they are a trapper but are we assuming that someone who is not able to possess a trap has bought one??