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I am looking at a couple of lodges for my annual fishing trip and I am getting pissed off with the number of lodges in Canada charging US$. I get it the Cdn $ is in the ters but for Christ sake increase your cost but charge Cdn dollars.........you are after all in Canada!!
Is it just me but when I see US$ I just close the web page and move on.
US is their most predominant client .......that's all .
Glen
A lot of the lodge owners are U.S. citizens themselves. They bring a lot of that cash home with them after the season is over. On another take, I'm thinking it might be easier (in a sense?) that since these lodges cater mostly to the U.S. clientele, they (the lodges) like to use a currency that the customers can see what it is costing them without the conversion? Good luck!
Had a lodge owner tell me that all his pricing was US, and that he was taking a hit when our dollar was at par...
So, I guess looking at the other shoe, the lodges are probably recuperating some costs from the last several years or so..
The vast majority of time the US dollar is higher than our Canadian dollar so its very seldom and for a usually short period of time that the exchange rate works against the lodge.
I worked at a fly in lodge for a summer. All of the clients save two were American. The two Canadians were only there because they were with American friends.
That's it.Quote:
Originally Posted by G Skinner
The best part is, as the consumer, if you don't like their pricing model you can choose tobsoend elsewhere. I agree, regardless of your clientel charge the currency of the country in which you operate but that is my opinion and my choice would be to shop elsewhere.
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...and if you're that sort of person, they probably don't want you at their lodge either.Quote:
Originally Posted by 410001661
The best part is, as the consumer, if you don't like their pricing model you can choose to spend elsewhere. I agree, regardless of your clientel charge the currency of the country in which you operate but that is my opinion and my choice would be to shop elsewhere.
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If you want it in Canadian, then multiply by 1.3, or whatever the exchange rate is that day. Doesn't seem to me to be a big deal.
Many of the lodges have far more US clients than Canadians ( particularly those in the NW part of the province). I however wouldn't rule out some of them on such a trifling issue. Heck, email and ask if they do deals for Canadians, you never know until you ask.....
Interesting thread and interesting opinions. I market hunts in South Africa predominantly. Our website is in USD as that seems to be the standard currency within the hunting and fishing market. However, when I do shows within Canada I advertise in Canadian dollars. In Europe EUR and in the US USD etc... Strangely enough I have had cases where an American wanted to pay in Cdn as the exchange rate was better at the time vs. the South African Rand. Back to the OPs original point, I don't advertise in South African Rand (where the hunt takes place) as I am marketing to Canadians, Europeans and Americans. Usually if someone is interested enough they will call and that is when I would quote in the appropriate currency. It seems to me those lodges are targeting Americans but could be missing out on potential clients within Canada, based on some of the input above ... I will watch this thread with interest.
I don't know amajor outfitter that does not have a published price list in US funds. The target market are Americans and from a business perspective you wouldcertainly want to be compensated in US funds.
For example there are lots of goose/duck guides that really struggle to get$250.00 a day from a Canadian while the can get double that from an Americanand a commitment of 3 days from them.
Guys.......most of you missed my point all together. It is not the exchange or the difference in currency (that is up to the lodge to do the math and determine how much to charge me) but the fact is that I do not have an option to pay in Canadian $ when the camp is, last time I checked, in CANADA.
Between my personnel trips and what I do for work (promotions and sales prizes) I probably spend over $25k/year and I will NOT TOUCH a lodge with these practices.........way too many options available out there to be concerned with.
Just my observation
Many thinks are priced in USD when marketed internationally.
Some good examples
- hotel rooms
- foreign country entry visa prices
The country that the goods or services are provided from/in are not relevant to the transaction.
USD is still the worlds internationally currency as English is its international language.
If you are looking at marketing material aimed at international markets - it is likely to be in USD.
Canadian hunting and fishing is marketing is usually done more to international markets than domestic.
Are you sure you don't have the option to pay in Cdn funds when you factor in the exchange? I find it hard to believe they wouldn't take Cdn currency and denying it is probably against some law--somewhere.
With electronic payments it doesn't make any difference..anywhere. Just swipe or give the number and it's paid, currency conversion is automatic on your statement. I've used my CIBC credit/debit card extensively while I travel.
Or just open a US account and get a US Visa/Mastercard for transactions with potential clients if it makes them happy. It's not a big deal..what's the old saying "it's just money".
You're correct here. I use my visa, m/c and bank card all over the world, you pay in local currency and it shows up with the conversion on your statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
You are 100% correct.........and I quote "you pay in local currency"Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
They do take Canadian. Only the posted prices are in US $$$. And yes, if you are a business entity in Canada, you are obligated to take Canadian currency. So if a lodge posts it's price in US $$$, then when you go to book, you make sure what rate they use, and go from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
Sucks but I understand the reasoning if most of their business is in USD .
I would assume they just do as much as possible in USD to minimize conversion fees, banking, purchasing etc only convert it when necessary.
That being said im sure if you contacted them they would take CAD, just sucks since it is a moving price model then.
Its when the credit company charges you a premium to change it back into Canadian that I would get ticked.
Used to travel the Caribbean and we had the option of paying in U.s. Or BIWI dollars which were about the same as Canadian at that time. It was a lot cheaper to buy BIWI travellers cheques at home than switch back and forth to US. Then they started taking cards other than AMEX and the problem went away.... Hard to imagine a time when you had to either have an AMEX card or take travellers checks....
I would be inclined to call any lodge you are interested in and make it known that you are a Canadian resident. They may have a different pricing schedule given that regard. As a side note, many on this forum patronize PR Bullet, located in Manitoba. As long as I can remember, their home page notes that "all orders are processed in US funds". Yet, whenever I have placed an order, I am billed in $CDN, with no exchange rate applied.:thumbup:
This reminds me of a certain out doors store from the states, only advertising in us funds on the web site for items in the Canadian store/ Ticks me off, want the Canadian money but not give me a Canadian price.
Yes, that is a major painQuote:
Originally Posted by severn don
That wouldn't happen to be the same company that only ships from their US warehouse and you get hammered with exchange,duty,GST when it crosses the border even though they have a Canadian mega store in the Vaughn area would it? :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by severn don
If price is $1400.00 US, ask to pay $1400.00 CAD + 45% more to make up the exchange. Then pay the total in CAD.
1 CAD is only worth .66 US.
Chris where are you getting your figures from?Quote:
Originally Posted by chris lavoie
Currently at just over 71 cents.
Maybe he's looking at it backwords...1 U.S dollar will get you $1.40 Canadian..or $.060 U.S to the CDN dollar
Whatever the "market rate" is listed on the stock exchange,the banks charge an extra $.05 as an exchange premium. They have to get their "piece" ,too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsman
But why would you involve the banks to exchange anything in this situation?Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
When dealing with a Canadian based business you can pay in Canadian funds.
Convert the US listed price at the current rate and pay in Canadian funds.
Current live USD/CAD spot rate is 1.3995.
If you want to know the CAD/USD divide 1 by the above (1/1.3995). So presently as I type this the CAD/USD rate is .7145
Trimmer.
Do you work for free?
The difference between the spot rate and what a retail client at bank would get is known as the spread. So assuming you go to bank X and ask to exchange 1 CAD into USD.
Bank X would then sell the 1 CAD and buy X USD at the spot rate. (In reality they don't, but there are daily cash flows of large amounts in the millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions) that treasury departments monitor. On any given day Bank X might be long or short USD and thus in the market buying/selling to cover their books.
Is it ok if the trader, and the clerical people make a living?
just thought I'd add.
Assuming the lodge is advertising USD1,400. At current rates (spot) that's CAD $1,959.41 ( 1,400 usd / .7145) or conversely if you had $1,400 USD you wanted to sell.
1,400 x 1.3995 = 1,959.30
Here's what I don't get. If most places don't take Canadian funds then why do the complain when our dollar is high. I remember listening a few years ago at the sportsman show to several owners saying that our high dollar was keeping Americans away and killing business
Because unlike us, it appears some Americans don't want to travel where they don't get more value than $1.00 for each of their $$ where as Canadians who love the sun in winter have no choice but to do so.Quote:
I remember listening a few years ago at the sportsman show to several owners saying that our high dollar was keeping Americans away and killing business
Actually they can't refuse Canadian currency as technically it's the only legal currency in Canada.Quote:
Originally Posted by cantcatchacold
They can voluntarily accept other currencies but the Canadian $ is the legal currency in Canada.
If they decide to list their prices in another currency it tells you who they are targeting as customers.
Went to the bank today and for every $1.00 US, I received almost $1.35 CAD. I am in US funds so I watch it close.
I was in Florida in Dec and I used my credit card once and the bank charged me an exchange rate of over 43%.
I did the figuring wrong, as it can get confusing. I should have said $1400.00 plus 35%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsman
When our dollar was valued at $1.20, yeah the it was still dollar for dollar at the resort, but the cost of gas, beer, food (everything else) in Canada was costing the American tourist at least 20% more. That kept some of them away.Quote:
Originally Posted by cantcatchacold
Currency can have huge impacts on outfitters. In my case a lot of the hunts are booked over a year in advance and currency values can really change. We base our hunts on USD as I mentioned in a previous post. Lately the South African Rand has tanked vs the USD a lot like the Cdn dollar vs the USD. For a guy that paid for his hunt last year he will feel like he should have waited until last minute to try and book. For the hunter booking today he is getting a great deal. That being said you have to constantly find ways to make it attractive to the client. In Canada the dollar has stayed even with the South African Rand, therefore whenever I am quoting a Canadian he gets the benefit of paying in Canadian dollars and not in USD, because there is no loss for us and most certainly a gain for the Canadian booking with us.
I go every year for a fishing trip,and will not rent anything that is not quoted in canadian funds.My friend ran a charter service on lake st clair and charged in us dollars and his business was full of clients from the us.
Americans don't have what we have when it comes to 'wilderness' fishing or hunting trips. That's one reason lodges will target American clients simply because its easier fill their bookings. That the greenback is worth more is certainly a bonus for them.
Too, as a resident why should I pay exorbitant rates to fish at a lodge when I can do it locally for far less and not break the bank?
Unbelievable that people actually care about this. Its not hard to figure out.
At the end point,CDN funds and US funds will hit one of our banks. No business in Canada can operate without them. Even if you operate your entire business with a Canadian bank and a US funds account,conversion is inevitable at some point. That's where they get you and that's where CRA really gets you. Taxes are paid in Canadian funds after conversion and for American outfitter/operators,Uncle Sam gets his "piece",too. It makes one wonder why they bother.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsman
It may be a bit that americans don't have what we have - but its mostly a culture thing. A Canadian that drives a 50k pickup will think 1k pp for a week's fishing is outrageous. An American with a 10k pickup truck will think that is reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
Canadians are notorious for being cheap about what the spend on some things that Americans are not. Generally, if its something we can own (trucks, guns, etc which have a concrete value), we're good, but if it something less concrete - guide service, lodge accommodation, bird hunts, dogs and dog training come to mind) we are cheap.
It has nothing to do with how hard it is to figure out...Its an expression of anti-Americanism sentiment.Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
Maybe it's our Scottish roots LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
Bingo...Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
Some current spot rates this morning.
USD/CAD: 1.4099
EUR/CAD: 1.5304
USD/EUR: 0.9208
If someone in Europe wanted to go on a spring bear hunt with a Canadian outfitter and the price was quoted as $1,000 USD.
It would cost them
$920.00 EUR
If they wanted to pay for it in CAD. The outfitter would charge $1,409. CAD ( usdcad 1.4099)
$920 EUR at 1.5304 (eur/cad) would fetch $1,407 CAD.
Us traders and our computers are very good at fast at finding any inefficiency's in the markets.
So theres no difference between converting CAD, to Eur, to YEN, to ZAR and then to USD....Or CAD to USD
The spreads people pay banks are basically a commission.
Whether you
1) buy box of shells at its marked up from cost so the retailor makes a profit .
2) Sell or buy a house (5% commission)
3) Buy a beer at pub, or eat at a restaurant (15% commission/tip)
.03 to .05 spread (5 cents on the dollar or 5%)...........................
In the end it makes zero difference whether the outfitter list their services as
$1,000.00 USD
$ 920.00 EUR
$1,400.00 CAD
If the bulk of their clients Americans for fishing, or Europeans for Bear ( 1 outfitter I know gets a lot them). it makes no difference.
Werner, normally I agree with you but having been in the business I've learned that Americans can be as cheap as Canadians and they can be as generous as Canadians. Some of the cheapest were multi millionaires and some of the most generous were blue collar workers who saved for their one trip of a lifetime.
I'm almost certain that the saying that nobody is as cheap as a Canadian was perpetrated by an American.
It looks like your not getting my point trimmer.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
In the OP's post the situation is a Canadian located camp listing their prices in US dollars.
If a Canadian resident wants to pay in Canadian dollars just do the conversion at the currently listed exchange rate and pay in Canadian dollars.
As it is a business in Canada it is required to accept Canadian dollars as the Canadian dollar is actually the legal currency of Canada.
In this situation Uncle Sam plays no part.
As far as what the camp does with their money after the transaction should make zero difference to the Canadian customer dealing with a business being ran in Canada.
If they want to move the money to the US & pay a bank to exchange the funds it's their option on their own dime.
As for income taxes on the fees it is not part of the customers responsibility.
If the OP does visit lodges as much as they claim, then they would know that 99 percent of lodge guests are Americans. They would also know that the vast majority of lodge owners are also US citizens. When virtually all your clientele are Americans, listing prices on your website in USD just makes sense. Lodges have been operating this way for years, and doing the same thing in their brochures long before the Internet even existed.
Further, Werner is right on the money - most Canadian fishermen are incredibly cheap. Scan through this forum and see how many posts there are whining about the cost of boats, the cost of tackle, even the cost of fishing show tickets. It's not everyone, to be sure, but most.
I go too Meta Lake Lodge which is owned by an American and both times out of 35 guests, myself and 3 friends were the only Canadians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Symmetre
I don't agree so much. When you compare US prices to Canadian I think it gives folks every right to complain. Specially here in Ontario where we are taxed to the hilt. Doesn't mean they still don't buy equipment though. Just go to any boat launch and admire all those gorgeous boats and high end tackle that Canadians purchase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Symmetre
Cheers
That's Bull! As I mentioned to Werner and now to you, Ive run hunts for years and find Americans can be as cheap as Canadians and as generous as Canadians. For every story you tell about Canadians whining, Ill give you two from personal experiences with my US clients.Quote:
Originally Posted by Symmetre
Ive travelled all across Ontario dealing with US hunters and Ive talked to them while on trips to the States and find they've got the very same concerns about living costs as we do.
Time to put that old wives tale to rest!
Perhaps. But go to any launch ramp in the US and check out how many high end boats and how much high end tackle you see there. Spend one day at a marina in Florida and you will blow your mind adding it all up.
What we spend is chump change.
There are cheapskates in every culture - no one will argue that. But there are more Americans willing to spend the bucks to enjoy a week of fishing at a lodge here than there are Canadians willing to fork out the dollars. Perpahs its a lack of opportunity in the US compared to what we have here, or perhaps is an attitude thing ... that "I'm doing it and the heck with the cost" type of thinking. Either way, the proportion of Americans who spend seems higher than the proportions of Canadians who do.
Still, absolutely no basis for your claims. There are 326 million Americans and only 35 million Canadians. Of course you're going to see a pile of expensive boats in Florida and anywhere else for that matter. For every Canadian willing to splurge there are 10 Americans who can afford to splurge. That is the only difference.
Buying the same equipment in the states is much cheaper then the same here in Canada. Supply and demand, much bigger population. If my buck was going 30 percent further I'd be a big tipper too.
In my original point about Canadians being cheap - I did state that buying very tangible things like trucks (including boats and tackle), we are much the same as Americans. Its the less tangible things - more difficult to put an exact dollar figure on - that we are cheap.Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty55
You guys talk as though being cheap is a vise - answer me this - if I work hard for my money why should I just throw it around as though I get it for free - remember you can only spend it once - you either buy something you want or throw it away -
Another point - things cost a hell of a lot more in Canada - that's why we have more - boats, guns, cars, clothes, food, houses, gas - you name it -
And as far as anti-American sentiment goes - part of it is jealousy because we have more - part is Americans are more inclined to speak their mind which many Canadians think is rude
I have been going to Canada for many years - worked there for awhile - even thought of buying some land up there at one time - which at the time looked attractive because of the exchange rate - I mainly go up there to camp and fish - the remoteness of some places is nice but it is getting so that you have to travel up north to enjoy it - some places are getting just as crowded as places here in the states -
Going through the border is getting to be a pain - I have to try and schedule my crossing at the right time otherwise I'll be seating in line for a long time - something I hate - there are a lot of nice lakes here in my state and if I hit them in the spring and fall I often have the places to myself
Would I ever want to live in Canada - the remoteness in the north would be the only reason - everything else is subpar to what we have here in the states - Canada is way too liberal for my blood - here we have a lot more freedom -
Some things do cost a lot more in Canada but the salaries are much higher to compensate for that.
And theres a difference between being cheap and being frugal. Cheap is buying junk when you can afford better. Frugal is shopping wisely and trying to get the most from your money.
As for you folks having more, I'd ask more what? Crime, poverty, prejudice, slums? Don't go there Joe, The States ain't what they used to be.
"Would I ever want to live in Canada - the remoteness in the north would be the only reason - everything else is SUBPAR to what we have here in the states - Canada is way too liberal for my blood - here we have a lot more freedom -". These comments fuel anti-American sentiment.
This is readily seen just by crossing the border on the Niagara River, Queenston Ontario to Lewiston NY, Ontario side beautiful houses, landscaped lawns etc. etc. cross to Lewiston and what do you have , Cadillac cars and Suv's parked beside tarpaper cover run down shacks with junk and rubble laying all around the yards.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
No thank you, I'll drive my Chevy truck and be proud of our well maintained 1 acre with it's trees shrubbery and flowers.
Tips would be a good example. As anyone who has ever spent a summer guiding or working at a lodge will tell you.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
The caddies on the Old Course in Scotland say, ' what is the difference between a Canadian and a canoe,.... a canoe tips'.
We've all heard that old saw but coming from a Scotsman should suggest the credibility of its value--that is of course based on whether our beliefs that the Scots are cheap also actually holds water.
Watch out guys - the Power Ball lottery is now around 1.3 Billion - the next drawing is on Wednesday - if I win I'm going to buy Canada -
In this battle of who is cheap and who isn't I suspect the point, or original observation is being lost?Quote:
The point being, when the wife n I go on a camping/fishing extravaganza, money is no object! We load up the truck, hook up to the trailer and go. Sometimes, I'll even let her come along?
Most outfitters I've spoken to about it, say the same things. Most of their clients are American. Bear hunting also brings in a fair number of Europeans. Does that mean we are cheap?
~There are an awful lot of post, threads about road closures in the North. Many resent outfitters having sole access for clients willing to pay to fly in, for that "remote experience"....................Conclusion why pay for it, when I can DIY. Why be upset it, no-one is saying you can't pay for the experience of being the only person on the lake......
~Bear Hunting and the Spring hunt. Not all that long ago, there were many arguments that the limited trial would have no impact unless they opened it to non residents.......Conclusion. Only a small number of Ontario hunters will go and even fewer willing to pay an outfitter.
~See also lost tourism $$ when they cancelled the hunt.......................
Moose Hunters?
How many Ontarians pay outfitters and how many DIY?
I know from talking to many outfitters, and in one case a great place I happen to love that' just outside APP, that close 90% of their clients are American and European. So why might a great, fabulous place just outside APP (a meca for tourist) struggle for Ontarian clients?
Why pay for it, when you can DIY.......
Truth is, we don't support our own....And for many Ontarians, many really don't know what we have in our own backyards.
Does it mean we are "cheap"?
Ask your wives, how many would rather go lie on a beach, drink fruity drinks....or wander the streets of New York, Paris, London, Egypt versus a week up north........
If the bulk of an outfitters clients and I have found this true almost everywhere, even southern and easter Ontario (around Kingston) are US
What difference to us if they advertise in US? None.
Whether one agrees with your posts or not, that right there was a good one. :joker:Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
if they split up the power ball to every American that would eliminate poverty in the USA. ..
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$4-5 each is going to end poverty lol? 330,000,000 people live in the US. If you count the take home (after 25% taxes) it's less than $3 each.Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
FishFrenzy
maybe when I did the math I added a couple zeros.Quote:
Originally Posted by FishFrenzy
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OK guys......I am the original poster and please do not put words in my mouth. This was not created to arouse anti-US feelings or calling them, or us in some cases cheap or 'frugal'.
Simply put the lodge is located in Canada and is operating under Canadian laws so it should (and I think is required by law) to supply a price in Canadian $$. What happens if I called a lodge 9 months ago and booked a fishing trip and paid in US$..........with the exchange I would be getting hammered when I went to pay the balance. If I paid in Canadian $ I'd still be OK which is how it should be because I was not affected. His US customers would be leveraging their green backs which is what I would expect them to do but don't punish me because of the exchange - you are operating a camp in Canada and regardless of your client base I expect to be billed in Canadian $. with some of your logic would it be reasonable for Florida to start quoting in Canadian dollars?
As to comments on being cheap or what/ who decides to spend their money on. In general I feel that Americans like their toys and are willing to spend their hard earned $$ on them. I have seen it and I am sure many of you have seen it where there is a pick-up and boat in the driveway that is worth far more then the persons house they are living in. The reason why we do not do that up here is because most Canadians are fiscal conservatives and our banking system prevents a lot of that happened in the US with their sub-par housing market so I would re-think your comment that Canada is subpar to the US. In some ways our laws are liberal but in many ways I think the US can learn a lot from Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
No requirement for a Canadian company to provide a price in Canadian dollars.
Isn't it great to live in a free country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 410001661
You haven't clarified if you've ever asked them for a quote.Quote:
Originally Posted by 410001661
Did they refuse to give you one in Canadian $$ ?
Just because they advertise to the widest market, doesn't mean they won't take your business.
Then why do many on here call us a 'nanny state' ?Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
When I stay at a Canadian lodge and it is time to leave I either pay with a credit card or with dollars - if I pay with dollars they take the exchange rate into account - this is the same with the tolls paid at the bridges - they have one price listed in Canadian dollars and one for U.S. dollars =
When I mentioned that some things are subpar in Canada I didn't mean to bad mouth Canada - far from it - I go there a lot and lived there at one time - often visit friends there - but to be honest you got to realize that certain things are different - just to name a few - when you go to buy something you have less to choose from - healthcare facilities and equipment are for the most part more modern and more available down here - doctors are more readily available - just look at the different in the sizes of BPS and Cabela's stores - their stores are much bigger down here - after all the GDP of the States is around 17% of the world's economy while Canada's is 2.9 % - that's nothing to ashamed of - its just the way things are - for $500,000 I can buy a mansion down here - gas, electricity, food, and just about everything is cheaper so there is more money available to buy other things - some say that the average wage in Canada is higher then here in the Sates - that may be true when you average it out which includes a lot of people down here not making much but for people with a trade or college education wages are the same and maybe even higher down here - a lot of Canadian doctors end up down here because they can make a lot more money -
For a person who doesn't think the mentioned things are important and doesn't mind a liberal government then Canada is the place to live - if I lived in Canada it would be in the North country where I can enjoy the remoteness - we do have remote areas here in the states but somehow I never visited them - someday maybe I will - in the meantime - stay healthy and enjoy what you have - Joe
Because I couldn't find the sarcasm emoji...Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
How can you even compare the two healthcare systems? your right, Americans do have more availability and quicker access to health care - but only those that can afford it and or have decent insurance through their employer. How long will this last with the republicans pushing soo hard for "right to work" legislation in an attempt to bust unions - these unions just happen to negotiate and set the standards for benefits packages? Shrinking the middle class is a recipe for economic problems. The US is becoming a society of haves and have nots. I am not sure how this can be more appealing then a Liberal Canada which is pro labour and pro healthcare. There is no doubt that we pay for it, and pay dearly, but I know my standard of life will remain high in Canada.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePa
oh boy, here we go :)
Toddy, have you run into many medical problems in Cda lately?
Our healthcare is a joke.
Especially when you consider how heavily we are taxed. I wont bore you with details of some crap I went through with my cancer..or the 40g ive spent the past 6 years in some uncovered things. .Suffice to say if it ever comes back ( 7 years clean now, so they say Im ok and can actually apply for insurance again) I will be flying to the states and paying out of my own pocket for care. As some of my co-workers have.
But really all you need to do is read the news or google the thousands and thousands of outright horror stories of people waiting months and months, or this, or that.....
So are we....Quote:
The US is becoming a society of haves and have nots
Don't believe everything you hear about the states, or how "great things are here".
Perhaps you'd like to meet my co-worker who was diagnosed as terminal and given 2 years.......Then on the advice of a friend went to the Mayo clinic for another opinion, not cheap that but when its your life, whats money...He was flipping fine, the problem was the equipment the Hosptial here in TO used to diagnos. Oh they offered him a lot of money to settle out of court...he settled for $0.01.
Told the hospital to use the rest to buy new equipement...He's sitting 10 feet away from me, I can get him to chime in.
Just....scratching....the...surface
http://www.morenurses.ca/issues-statistics/
Reality.
Both Canada and the US have very good things and well.....problems. Utopia would probably exist somewhere in the middle.
Back on topic.
honestly guys, it doesn't matter. They cant refuse Cdn funds. They might list US on their site...Ask them what the Cdn is If your interested in going..if your ok with the price put down a deposit in CDN funds....done. Or if you don't like them advertising in US do as the OP did and pass them, keep looking
Just thought I would keep the pot simmering ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
I didn't actually say in my post that our healthcare system was better or efficient - I just said you can't compare the two - and I also said we pay dearly for what we have.
lol :)
You are right there, that's for sure. Despite how similar we are, we have different systems that really make grass is greener comparisons near impossible. Will say only, our healthcare is not what it used to be, or the great thing we believe it to be...and its only when you run into, or a loved one runs into the very many cracks, some quite wide that we start realizing it. I personally know 3 people that have gone to the states despite A) being taxed to the teeth for care here and B) "Free" here for different things/reasons. I "if" I ever find myself in that situation again, I will to.
I know this is continuing to be off the OP topic but I just don't see where you guys constantly complain about health care. I needed a heart valve replaced and didn't wait. They actually rebooked two weeks later than original so I could get my bear hunt in. All follow up was immediate. And when I needed some repair work for an infection, I had a bed that night.
A few months ago I had an operation to repair hearing in one ear. That was an overnight in the hospital. Again, no waiting and 2 follow up sessions went flawlessly. No waiting.
Dental, same thing. Work was done and appointments were made in respectable times with the exception of a cracked tooth over the Christmas holiday. I had to wait a week.
I've paid all my life into a medical plan and simply learned to live without those funds.
Now that people are living longer and more medical procedures are being required, you have to be reasonable and expect some wait times.
I guess I`m not one to whine when things aren`t exactly perfect.
I'll add this as well. While in Florida last winter I met an elderly American gent who was complaining about Canada's health system. It seems he was buying his meds from Canada because they were much cheaper but he was complaining that the postal service was so slow that delivery schedule was off by as much as a week. Complain, complain complain.
14 month of hemoragging every day, and botched biopsy before they diagnosed my tumor. 4 more months before it was removed.
Know for a fact another poster here went through something similar. You find that acceptable?
My co-worker...
Lyme and all the problems there?
Im trying to find the story that broke just last week of a guy that went to a hosptipal with a serious condition...They had a surgeon who was more than qualified to do the operation but it had been delisted at that hospital....So he was sent to a different hospital.DOA
Would you like to tell his family how good healthcare is here?
edit
There are serious problems Sawbill, given how we pay in taxes.
Ontario rakes 120b in revenue each year, half of that goes to healthcare...
and yet.........
True enough sawbill, I'm sure there are horror stories a plenty everywhere. Just like I'm equally sure if your pockets are deep enough you can fly around the world and get better care then here. My most recent experience was very positive, my Mother-in-law broke her hip on a Friday at noon she got a hip replacement Saturday at 2pm, I was impressed with that response.
Let me know when it takes 14 months to diagnose your tumor Idub. Or your child...or as with the guy last week...
Or simply 17 people (I think?) that died under Orng.
"If pockets are deep enough"
What if they aren't?
We are taxed heavily, and we often hold up our healthcare system and wave it around like some....when in fact there cracks, and yes horror stories. More and more of them.
If pockets aren't deep enough, then you get what you get, and at least in Canada you get something. Could you imagine being poor in the states without insurance.
Well as has been stated, despite our similarities there are large differences. They have their green grass, and yellow grass and we have our green and yellow grass.
Was a time I think when our healthcare was something to "brag" about. Today, not so much.
If this was your father/son and considering all the taxes you, they pay for "worldclass" healthcare...you get what you get....darn guess like lik a growing number rolled snake eyes. :)
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blo...saved-his-life
If you want an education in our health care system maybe trot down to the local emerg or walk-in clinic and see whats waiting to be looked at.
Sniffles, coughs, hangnails, sore pinkys. Maybe if these characters would take an aspirin, or cough medicine or learn to put on a bandage or even better, get out and shovel their driveway once in a while our doctors and nurses would be far less taxed and their time could be devoted to serious health issues.
Everyone knows of horror stories when it comes to health care but I know of far more cases of good service than bad.
I find it interesting that people always expect people like doctors and other professionals, will have all the answers in a timely manner. I've been around long enough too realize there are no guarantees in life and there are idiots in every walk of life, sad but true.
Well sawbill that is true, one reason why ER wait times are getting worse.
Windsor regional just laid off 160 nurses.
Lucky me I don't live around there.......
Funny thing Idub.
Ex girlfriend was dropping weight like a stone for months, all kinds of problems. Appointment to see specialist usually weeks. Poked, prodded, all kinds of test...
Almost a year of stress, worrying, about herself, her 9 year old son. Actuly had to take 4 weeks stress leave.Finally after a year they found the lesion or shadow on her brain...
Let's hope you never go through a year of sleepness nights.
God willing I won't. Don't hate the players, hate the game, "no one cares as much about your problems as you do" this includes the so called pros trying to solve them.
No kidding.
Hope I haven't articulated anything poorly, because they aren't judgments or criticisms. buMaybe I've experienced more than the average person, but when people talk about our healthcare or how good it is..Well it may or is better than what some in the world get, but its not free and often not what many think...until they run into some things...I know what it was like for me, my co-worker who went 6 months thinking he 2 years to live, my EX GF who for a year....If and when you walk those mile guaranteed perspectives will change :)
My daughter who spent 5 weeks in hospital, essentially in quarantine while they tried to figure out what was wrong. This is the day she was released
http://jbenphotography.ca/img/s/v-2/p1350517254-5.jpg
couple more months in a wheelchair and 4 more months worth of appointments at sick kids.
It has it's strength and yellow grass and the cracks are growing.
Experiences both good and bad are all we can go on. Also the faith you put in others experiences both good and bad.
If I'd gone through some of the crap you have I can easily see that an appointment yesterday is still too long to wait. Like some families I know, you seem to have had more than your share of downs. On the bright side, you're still here to keep us honest.
Lol life would be boring if everything was smooth sailing. As the same ex GF used to say. When life puts a speed bump in the way buy a 4x4. Perspective.
Bet the refugees we are taking in must think it's pretty damn good.
I'll relate experiences, if, as when, lots of people experience this or that. Healthcare I think is something we can all agree on as being important to CDNs. Shame in away as Idub said, the powers are losing sight of that and the cracks are widening.
Apologies to OP, but think that to had sort of run its course :).