Single use plastics in ammunition

With the ongoing litany of concern over single-use-plastic causing environmental damage I have to wonder how long we have before they tackle the ammunition manufacturers about the plastic used in the production of shot-shells. In some cases the entire shot-shell hull is made of plastic, or the hull is made with a combination of mental and plastic. Then there are the plastic wad and shot sleeve systems that get spewed out with each load fired, to lie abandon where they fall. You would think by now the shotshell manufacturers might become proactive enough to switch back to paper products. I can see this eventually becoming an issue, after all they killed the use of lead shot because it was affecting the water resource and waterfowl. You have wonder how long before they clamp down on the single-use-plastic in shot-shells. Something to think about.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

I don't think most people realize the number of things that constitute single use. Would they ban it across or be selective..

Many medical syringes are single use, condoms, pill bottles, tampons, those juice boxes are actually plastic contrary to Trudeau's thoughts (did he make it past grade 6?), disposal lighters.

What I find funny is I still remember when they were promoting plastic bags and stop using paper so we could save the trees.
So forestry companies start your engines and begin mowing them there tree's down?

Most people probably 90% of the population does not have the slightest clue in life.

Yeah sure we could plant Hemp, will have to plant lot's I guess we could either mow down more tree's or cut our food supply.

This is already an issue in the UK, I believe. Plastic wads are on the way out.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

I am so pro garbage on this one. Forget the environment. What's in this for me? I will not bend one inch to make things better for anyone else, even my kids and grandkids. Eff em.

I have no problem saving the environment. But is cutting the tree's down saving the environment? Back in the 1970's and 1980's did we not switch to plastic to save the environment and stop cutting tree's? Many of those tree's that were planted are now maturing should we just go clear cut emm all? What is your alternative that has zero effect on the environment? Hemp? sure let's stop growing food to plant Hemp or clear cut more land to grow Hemp.

Garbage like plastics should be used to create energy it's done quite well in Europe with energy to waste systems. An entrepreneur in Ottawa Rod Bryden was trying to develop a home grown plasma gasification system, but it ended. They do have systems in Europe.

No matter what you choose there will be an environmental reaction it is how we handle it that matters.

Choose your poison.

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Originally Posted by kickingfrog

I am so pro garbage on this one. Forget the environment. What's in this for me? I will not bend one inch to make things better for anyone else, even my kids and grandkids. Eff em.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

Most people probably 90% of the population does not have the slightest clue in life.

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One of the few times I agree with something you've said.

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Originally Posted by welsh

This is already an issue in the UK, I believe. Plastic wads are on the way out.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

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Lots of things the wads can be made of that break down after being fired. Not sure you would want to make hulls out of stuff that rots before you use.

Guess we will have just bring back brass hulls and over shot wads..

Anyone know were I can get a good roll crimper for brass 12 gauge hulls?

I've considered this before as I was picking dozens of spent shells out of the lake and wads off the boat ramp. It would be nice if somebody could come up with an alternative. Until they do, I'll just keep picking them up as I find them.

Society has grown to rely on Plastics, I'll probably be dead and gone before they find the next best thing.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Lots of things the wads can be made of that break down after being fired. Not sure you would want to make hulls out of stuff that rots before you use.

Guess we will have just bring back brass hulls and over shot wads..

Anyone know were I can get a good roll crimper for brass 12 gauge hulls?

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Actually the brass headed-waxed cardboard hulls worked well, Winchester was even using cardboard cylinders in their shell for sleeves to protect the shot, at least that is what I discovered from having taken a few apart. I have to wonder what was the big push to uses plastic. I can only think it got pushed to use up any surplus oil, so they could complain about an oil shortish in order to justify jacking the price of gas from 50 cents a gallon to over a dollar a liter. Plastic sure did catch on, replacing the paper grocery bag, cardboard packing materials, the wooden bottle case, the recyclable glass bottle, the chrome/mental bumpers in most automobiles, as well as a multitude of other natural based produces. Now it has ended acting as a stopper in the digestive of track of many of the larger sea mammals, causing their death. Just because tons of it has found its way into the earth’s oceans. It seems a bit ironic when you think about it, that they are afraid of a potential spillage of bunker oil in B.C. coastal waters, meanwhile an oil base by-product is already doing considerable more damage than they might have imagined.


You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

You are right GunNut-somehow us hunters and fishermens maybe could also be more concerned,and somehow lead a way to reducing man caused unnecessary pollution.
While much of the plastic in plastic product form does not create as much damage as an oil spill,but definitely harms overall big time.

Maybe a return fee on spent shells would help.
Before someone would "kill"me here-does it works on single use bag?Yes!

Do we find 100 and 100 of them shells in the forests-lakes-rivers-meadows?.Yes!
Do we collect them when found-i know many outdoors men they do(even here on the forum we see this notion all the time)
So -why not?
Small care would go a long way.

Now-outdoors man are not the only ,just a small portion of "pollutants"-this kind or similar "reduction" method could apply to everyone,many other unnecessary throw away stuff too could be reduced or cut out..............

I always pick up my shells if I can locate them, as I don't think the owners of land I hunt on would be very happy. I alos pick them up in the bush. Another good reason to pick them up is maybe someone else might like them for reloading. By the way I have a bunch of 3.5 if anyone wants them next time they are near Ottawa.

If they think I'm giving up my single use Latex/Nitro gloves I use for skinning /butchering deer..they have another thing coming.

Thank God the U.S. isn't acting stupid trying to appease the environmentalist...I can drive across and pick them up anything I will be denied here. Getting real tired of the Liberals social engineering our lives.

Not seeing this as a bad thing :)

https://i.imgur.com/WLdTXibm.jpg

Jerks took lead out of my gasoline, paint and migratory bird shells too. Some seem to be confused on who's having a meltdown about losing some garbage.

All governments should ban plastic..... Plastic doesn't break down, it makes our planet sickening..... Make it biodegradable or don't make it at all.....

Someone or some company will see the need and make a lot of money filling the void... We should all be speaking out (ban all non biodegradable products because recycling doesn't work either)

https://i.imgur.com/WLdTXibm.jpg



Seriously? The only strawback I see to them is they might not resize properly for hand reloading. So they would only be likely adding more fuel to the fire.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by fratri

All governments should ban plastic..... Plastic doesn't break down, it makes our planet sickening..... Make it biodegradable or don't make it at all.....

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Nice sentiment ..but impossible to do and make any significant impact....take the lowly straw and the plastic wrapping stuff from the grocery store.. they're thrown in the plastic bag under the kitchen sink, then taken to the even heavier/stronger plastic bag that holds the weekly garbage then taken to the curb. Then off to landfill.

Those two layers of plastic holding the single use plastic waste will never degrade so the contents of the bags is a non-issue. Inventing something biodegradable that is capable of handling the trash from a house....not in the foreseeable future and cost prohibitive.

Controlling waste disposal as a whole is the answer...incinerators like Singapore uses have solved the problem. Turn pollution into a resource.

Making straws illegal is a stupid gesture; more 'virtue singling' from Climate Barbie and the environmentalists.

Watch the video...I think you'll be amazed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVam-rh4XAw

Oh in case you weren't aware ...BC already uses this technology....turning those nasty single use plastics that are necessary to provide safe storage of our vegetables etc ...into electricity !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05pw8JGdu_I

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

Seriously?

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Why not ?...if they use recycle waste and reduces the cost of ammo , even by a 1/3 ..well worth looking into...

And yes they work ..reloading concerns in video !!

https://www.polymersolutions.com/blo...ridge-casings/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=IaZBQJur-NA

Rio has a biodegradable wad

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/first...o-be-released/

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Why not ?...if they use recycle waste and reduces the cost of ammo , even by a 1/3 ..well worth looking into...

And yes they work ..reloading concerns in video !!

https://www.polymersolutions.com/blo...ridge-casings/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=IaZBQJur-NA

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I'm still not buying it. The plastic in shot-shell ammo is bad enough. Now you want to add to the problem with using recycled plastic in rifle ammo. They talk about reloading the stuff but there is no video on how it's being done.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

I'm still not buying it. The plastic in shot-shell ammo is bad enough. Now you want to add to the problem with using recycled plastic in rifle ammo. They talk about reloading the stuff but there is no video on how it's being done.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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The plastic rounds are for reduced weight for military use, that is what I read. No military has ever cared about reloadability of cases.

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Originally Posted by Fox

The plastic rounds are for reduced weight for military use, that is what I read. No military has ever cared about reloadability of cases.

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Neither does what 85% of hunters/shooters ?

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Neither does what 85% of hunters/shooters ?

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Exactly, they could all be using steel cased berdan primed cases.

The same can be said for shotgun shooters, go back to paper hulls with biodegradable wads and not worry about it.

There is a lot of single use plastics in the shooter sports, not just the wads either, rifle cartridge boxes have plastic to hold the ammo, have for a long time, why not go with cardboard and save that environmental expense, they used to be in all cardboard boxes.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Neither does what 85% of hunters/shooters ?

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I always have to smile when someone lights into the topic of us remaining true to our hunting heritage. They often overlook the fact when it came to ammunition, our grandfathers rarely had the inclination or the cash to purchase manufactured ammunition. They held on their spent cartridges and purchased the components necessary to reload them. With rifle ammunition they even bought the molds to cast their own bullets. There was little to doubt about their ammunition’s reliability and consistency, since it was a product of their own hands. Then again, the firearm actions they used, didn’t leave them beating the bushes to come up with their spent cartridges.


You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

I always have to smile when someone lights into the topic of us remaining true to our hunting heritage. They often overlook the fact when it came to ammunition, our grandfathers rarely had the inclination or the cash to purchase manufactured ammunition. They held on their spent cartridges and purchased the components necessary to reload them. With rifle ammunition they even bought the molds to cast their own bullets. There was little to doubt about their ammunition’s reliability and consistency, since it was a product of their own hands. Then again, the firearm actions they used, didn’t leave them beating the bushes to come up with their spent cartridges.


You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Whose grandfathers? My grandpa was born in 25, he never loaded ammunition in his life, he had a 16ga single shot Stevens and a Cooey single shot 22LR, he did not target shoot, he went out with his 22 for groundhogs in the pastures and with his ferret along side used the 16ga to get cottontail rabbits. My other grandpa had a 12ga bolt gun, 303 Brit No 4 sporter, Cooey 600 in 22LR, Cooey single shot in 25 Stevens. He still had 6 rounds of Canuck 25 Stevens when he passed away, we found a box of Winchester Ball ammo from 1943 and his stash of Imperial 180gr 303 Brit ammo as well, he never reloaded his ammo.

Our grandfathers did not shoot to shoot, they shot to hunt and for the most part these guys did not reload.

The one who had the 303 Brit did not believe you could make ammo any better than a factory and laughed at reloading, his Ross rifle when he was a kid was the most accurate rifle he ever put his hands on, again 303 Brit in chambering.

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Originally Posted by Fox

Rio has a biodegradable wad

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/first...o-be-released/

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I can reload the hulls, or throw them in the recycling. The wad is never found.

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Originally Posted by Fox

Whose grandfathers?

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Well Gun Nut isn't a Wiper snapper..maybe his Grandfathers shot Black Powder in their day and had to reload every shot.. HaHa...

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Nice sentiment ..but impossible to do and make any significant impact....take the lowly straw and the plastic wrapping stuff from the grocery store.. they're thrown in the plastic bag under the kitchen sink, then taken to the even heavier/stronger plastic bag that holds the weekly garbage then taken to the curb. Then off to landfill.

Those two layers of plastic holding the single use plastic waste will never degrade so the contents of the bags is a non-issue. Inventing something biodegradable that is capable of handling the trash from a house....not in the foreseeable future and cost prohibitive.

Controlling waste disposal as a whole is the answer...incinerators like Singapore uses have solved the problem. Turn pollution into a resource.

Making straws illegal is a stupid gesture; more 'virtue singling' from Climate Barbie and the environmentalists.

Watch the video...I think you'll be amazed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVam-rh4XAw

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Ya sounds good.....everything but where they place the ash..... But I can see it working or doing a better job then we are doing now... Definitely a good beginning...

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...everything but where they place the ash...

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They could dump that ash down Inco mining shafts in Manitoba, with no health risk to humanity , for the next 100 yrs and not make a dent in the space available.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Well Gun Nut isn't a Wiper snapper..maybe his Grandfathers shot Black Powder in their day and had to reload every shot.. HaHa...

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Cartridge firearms were the norm in the early 1900s, not saying that there were not reloaders around but I know that in my family (big family) there was 1 hunter/shooter before me that reloaded, my great uncle and did not do it until later in life. Most of the times we have to go through the guns and gear we find ammo from 50+ years ago that was still their hunting stash. They just did not shoot very much, often did not have the money to shoot more than was needed to put the meat in the freezer.

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Originally Posted by Fox

Cartridge firearms were the norm in the early 1900s, not saying that there were not reloaders around but I know that in my family (big family) there was 1 hunter/shooter before me that reloaded, my great uncle and did not do it until later in life. Most of the times we have to go through the guns and gear we find ammo from 50+ years ago that was still their hunting stash. They just did not shoot very much, often did not have the money to shoot more than was needed to put the meat in the freezer.

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"Only White man waste bullet on Paper. Paper not make good soup, not warm in winter." :joker:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

If they think I'm giving up my single use Latex/Nitro gloves I use for skinning /butchering deer..they have another thing coming.

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While they are single use they are not plastic per say. Both nitrile and latex are technically rubber - so you should be safe.

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Originally Posted by Species8472

While they are single use they are not plastic per say. Both nitrile and latex are technically rubber - so you should be safe.

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Unless the he buys them from a catholic. Then there is a small hole in every one.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Well Gun Nut isn't a Wiper snapper..maybe his Grandfathers shot Black Powder in their day and had to reload every shot.. HaHa...

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You got that right MikePal, grandfather was an old black powder burner. He had an old double cap-lock muzzle loader, as well as a Belgian double breech loader. After he passed , there were few old shells in the box he used for tools. I recall bro touching one them off at a stump out on the lake one evening. The flame from the muzzle reached pretty much out to the stump, which look to be a good 25 to 30 yards out. in the water. Father made an attempt to reload some shells for bro and I using grandpa’s old loading tools. It resulted in him blowing up the old Belgian, His mistake, when he went shopping for components. He came home with smokeless powder instead of black powder and loaded the shells with 3 drams of .Red Dot. The old doctor asked dad about his loading efforts while he was removing the 5 or 6 shot pellets from his one thump.
“Man,” he said,” that was about twice the amount of powder you should have been using” Oddly enough this peculiar event didn’t deter bro or I from becoming lifetime reloaders. What it taught us was to do it with reference to a good reloading manual.


You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

Some people reload the shot shells so not all are single use.

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Originally Posted by Useless

Some people reload the shot shells so not all are single use.

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The wads are.

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Originally Posted by terrym

The wads are.

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Yup wads are always lost, but the plastic used in the hulls can be put in your recycle bin. It's important to remove the metal base.

There are still paper shells being manufactured.
Federal's Gold Medal Grand target load lines has them. However, they are only in target loads.
Throw in a biodegradable plastic wad and you have an environmentally friendly shotgun shell. Now, we as a group (all hunters not just the ones in Canada) would need to give the ammo companies a reason to begin to manufacture environmentally friendly shotgun shells. Voting with our wallets is the only way companies will switch doing business.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Yup wads are always lost, but the plastic used in the hulls can be put in your recycle bin. It's important to remove the metal base.

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Which is great if your recycling program accepts Low Density Polyethylene. Not all recycling programs across the province and country are the same.

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Originally Posted by terrym

The wads are.

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Not necessarily, an old fellow out at the club. picks up old wads and runs them though his wash machine and reloads them in his skeet loads, and has no trouble shooting 24 out of 25 , or even going straight.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Yup wads are always lost, but the plastic used in the hulls can be put in your recycle bin. It's important to remove the metal base.

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If you are a reloader and you own a couple different gauge shotguns. The plastic of the hulls once they’re beyond the pail, can be used for a shot sleeve in the next larger gauge gun. I use to load the old 12 gauge cases with shot. Put over shot wads in place and roll crimp them. Next you cut round the plastic just above the mental case-head, dump the shot out and you have an unslit shot-sleeve for a 10 gauge.


You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

Which is great if your recycling program accepts Low Density Polyethylene. Not all recycling programs across the province and country are the same.

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True...

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Originally Posted by jaycee

Not necessarily, an old fellow out at the club. picks up old wads and runs them though his wash machine and reloads them in his skeet loads, and has no trouble shooting 24 out of 25 , or even going straight.

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Nice on the range...not so easy in the field or over water..

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

If you are a reloader and you own a couple different gauge shotguns. The plastic of the hulls once they’re beyond the pail, can be used for a shot sleeve in the next larger gauge gun. I use to load the old 12 gauge cases with shot. Put over shot wads in place and roll crimp them. Next you cut round the plastic just above the mental case-head, dump the shot out and you have an unslit shot-sleeve for a 10 gauge.


You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Poor man's slug.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Poor man's slug.

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Actually the old 10 was a cylinder bore, this was a means of adding another 15 to 20 yards for shooting waterfowl. So may it was a poor man's means of providing a tighter coke, and increasing the gun killing range.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Nice on the range...not so easy in the field or over water..

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So, ?????

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Originally Posted by jaycee

So, ?????

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Just saying works at the range, but we still could use a better solution for in the field.

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

Actually the old 10 was a cylinder bore, this was a means of adding another 15 to 20 yards for shooting waterfowl. So may it was a poor man's means of providing a tighter coke, and increasing the gun killing range.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut.

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Some hot candle wax would turn that in to a very mean slug.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Some hot candle wax would turn that in to a very mean slug.

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You don’t need the candle wax, if want a slug affect, all you need to do is invert the sleeve fill it full of shot and insert it into the 10 gauge shell so the the roll crimp on the 12 gauge sleeve is up - now you have “ the poor man’s slug.”


You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by MikePal

If they think I'm giving up my single use Latex/Nitro gloves I use for skinning /butchering deer..they have another thing coming.

Thank God the U.S. isn't acting stupid trying to appease the environmentalist...I can drive across and pick them up anything I will be denied here. Getting real tired of the Liberals social engineering our lives.

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I don’t like Lieberal social engineering much either but when it comes to something like plastics I think this is an issue everyone can get behind. Our laziness is ruining the ocean food chains and filling our landfills - the chickens will be home to roost on this one.

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

I don’t like Lieberal social engineering much either but when it comes to something like plastics I think this is an issue everyone can get behind. Our laziness is ruining the ocean food chains and filling our landfills - the chickens will be home to roost on this one.

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I think You hit the nail right in the head.

About 2o years ago there was no bottled water(especially the 0.5 l one)and the Humankind survived quite well.
There was no plastic shopping bag til late in the 60-ties,same thing.We did awesome.
There was a lot a whole lot of less use of medical and over the counter drugs-and we were same with general health.
The canned beer was invented only 1959..............just to name a few.(at least the aluminium is somewhat reclaimed).

Environment should be for all of us a concern,if we respect ourselves and our kids-grand-kids.Every each Government could/ should do a lot for it.

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

I don’t like Lieberal social engineering much either but when it comes to something like plastics I think this is an issue everyone can get behind.

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Sorry the science and the studies don't support the premise.....

Bellow are two excerpts from studies on the alternatives...

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The Planet Money article also cites a 2011 study by the UK government that found a person would have to reuse a cotton tote bag 131 times before it was better for the environment than using a plastic grocery bag once. When you factor in the manufacturing process used to make cotton bags, the impact on the climate is even worse than plastic.

Cotton, if grown in the United States, requires planting with heavy equipment, which uses fuel; weed killer; and the use of an exfoliant to remove cotton leaves before the cotton balls can be harvested using more large machines fueled by diesel or gasoline. Then there’s the process of actually manufacturing the cotton items. The Danish government estimates that “these factors make cloth bags even worse than plastic,” said the Planet Money article. “They estimate you would have to use an organic cotton bag 20,000 times more than a plastic grocery bag to make using it better for the environment.”

The Danish government study concluded that the best reusable bags “are ones made from polyester or plastic like polypropylene” but cautions that “those still have to be used dozens and dozens of times to be greener than a plastic grocery bag, which has the smallest carbon footprint for a single use.”

Taylor and her colleagues compared bag use in cities with and without plastic bag bans. They spent six months in grocery stores tallying the types of bags people carried out and analyzing the stores’ sales data. She found that these bag bans did what they were supposed to do: People in cities where bans were in effect used fewer plastic bags, which led to about 40 million fewer pounds of plastic trash per year. “But people who used to reuse their shopping bags for other purposes, like picking up dog poop or lining trash bins, still needed bags,” noted the Planet Money article.

“What I found was that sales of garbage bags actually skyrocketed after plastic grocery bags were banned,” said Taylor. This was particularly the case for small, 4-gallon bags, which saw a post-ban 120% increase in sales, the article noted.

The article in Planet Money noted that regular trash bags are “thick and use more plastic” than typical carryout grocery bags. “So about 30% of the plastic that was eliminated by the ban came back in the form of thicker garbage bags,” Taylor said. Additionally, cities that banned plastic bags saw a “surge in the use of paper bags,” which Taylor estimates resulted in about 80 million pounds of extra paper trash per year.

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“Plastic haters, it’s time to brace yourselves,” said the article. A number of studies have found that paper bags are actually worse for the environment, which I’ve actually pointed out in a number of my blogs. Paper requires cutting down trees or using a high percentage of recycled paper, which still has to be processed using lots of water, toxic chemicals (including chlorine, if the paper is to be made white) and fuel in the heavy machinery required.

“Taylor says, the huge increase in paper, together with the uptick in plastic trash bags, means banning plastic shopping bags increases greenhouse gas emissions,” said the article. While the article acknowledges that plastic bag bans do reduce non-biodegradable litter, it still takes a considerable amount of time for paper to degrade in the open environment, which means it’s still an eyesore and doesn’t do the environment any good.

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From: https://www.plasticstoday.com/packag...34943847760696

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Originally Posted by gbk

(at least the aluminium is somewhat reclaimed).

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99% of the aluminum produced in the world still exists, it uses less energy to recycle aluminum than to make it from the raw ore that contains it. The oxide of aluminum is strong and does not flake off, that is why it does not break down. It is one of the most easily recycled materials that exist to us.

The 3 Rs, Reduce, Reuse, Recycle, nobody would ever thing to reduce, reusing is such an old school thought, let's all just recycle, it makes no sense. If we limit the use of these materials, reuse them (even water bottles) then we would limit what needs to be recycled. We have a family of 3 with a toddler in diapers and we have 1 bag or less of garbage every 2 weeks yet I see 3-4 bags out in front of houses every single week, it is insane.

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Originally Posted by Fox

99% of the aluminum produced in the world still exists, it uses less energy to recycle aluminum than to make it from the raw ore that contains it. The oxide of aluminum is strong and does not flake off, that is why it does not break down. It is one of the most easily recycled materials that exist to us.

The 3 Rs, Reduce, Reuse, Recycle, nobody would ever thing to reduce, reusing is such an old school thought, let's all just recycle, it makes no sense. If we limit the use of these materials, reuse them (even water bottles) then we would limit what needs to be recycled. We have a family of 3 with a toddler in diapers and we have 1 bag or less of garbage every 2 weeks yet I see 3-4 bags out in front of houses every single week, it is insane.

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Just make sure to clean the stove chimney once in a while....;) :shades:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Sorry the science and the studies don't support the premise.....

Bellow are two excerpts from studies on the alternatives...





From: https://www.plasticstoday.com/packag...34943847760696

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Mike, the articles may be right, although whoever writes an opinion piece can always find data or a study that supports their argument

Regardless of anything quoted or written, a Texas-sized pile of floating garbage in the Pacific is a disgrace to humanity - and we’re all guilty

Metals and glass seemed to work well for so many years....I imagine the reduced shipping weight of plastic has had a lot to do with its growth in use.

I’m not a tree hugger but this one area where we need to change.

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Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Just make sure to clean the stove chimney once in a while....;) :shades:

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You would think that, but we burn no garbage here, just do not produce much.

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

Mike, the articles may be right, although whoever writes an opinion piece can always find data or a study that supports their argument

Regardless of anything quoted or written, a Texas-sized pile of floating garbage in the Pacific is a disgrace to humanity - and we’re all guilty

Metals and glass seemed to work well for so many years....I imagine the reduced shipping weight of plastic has had a lot to do with its growth in use.

I’m not a tree hugger but this one area where we need to change.

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You would be surprised how little a load of Aluminum cans weight..

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

Mike, the articles may be right, although whoever writes an opinion piece can always find data or a study that supports their argument

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If you don't read articles and studies from both sides of a debate, then your opinion is based on false premises.

The hypocrisy of this issue is amazing. Climate Barbie is shown proudly in a PR stunt planting trees to save our environment ...then she bans plastics and claims they can be replaced by paper/cardboard products...maybe she doesn't know where they come from

The alternatives to single use plastics are expensive, less efficient, require more manufacturing (more of a carbon foot print) and will still end up in landfill. Single use plastics are a very small part of the waste going to landfill.

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Some have claimed that plastic bags serve an important food-safety function and protect the public from harmful bacteria, outbreaks and food-borne illnesses. A University of Arizona study in microbiology suggested that the combination of reusable grocery bags and food can be harmful to many. According to the study, coliform bacteria and Escherichia coli (E. coli) were found in half of the reusable grocery bags sampled. The Mercatus Center in the U.S. claimed that discouraging the use of single-use plastic bags is almost pointless, given the insignificant variance in carbon footprint between bagging alternatives, including paper bags. And data from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency suggest that only 0.28 per cent of all the garbage generated by municipalities, by weight, comes from plastic bags.

These groups believe that banning the use of plastic bags is more about appearances and idealism than about protecting the environment.

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Why should I keep my yard clean? The big house down the road doesn't keep their yard clean.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kickingfrog

Why should I keep my yard clean? The big house down the road doesn't keep their yard clean.

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No it's "Why should I mount the ever suffering attack on my dandelions when the guy next store lets his go to seed every year"... if it bothers you that much , cut his lawn for him HaHa....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

Regardless of anything quoted or written, a Texas-sized pile of floating garbage in the Pacific is a disgrace to humanity - and we’re all guilty

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Some are more guilty that others:

Quote:

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Ground zero for complaints about the amount of plastic in the world’s oceans is the Great Pacific Garbage Patch. First identified in 1997, this floating collection of buoyant plastic debris comprises an estimated 79,000 tonnes of litter spread over 1.6 million square kilometres between California and Hawaii. Prevailing ocean currents keep adding to its size, while environmental groups keep adding to its reputation as a physical manifestation of our addiction to a throw-away plastic lifestyle. So what’s inside this great floating garbage dump?

According to a recent study of its contents in the open-source academic journal Scientific Reports, it’s not swizzle sticks or straws that are to blame for polluting the Pacific Ocean. Of the 1.1 million bits and 668 kg of plastic debris collected by the authors, 46 per cent of it was discarded fishing nets. A further substantial portion is related fishing industry items such as floats, ropes, baskets, traps and crates. And another 20 per cent is junk washed away from Japan’s shores during the 2011 tsunami. The report makes no mention of straws.

The vast bulk of floating plastic waste in the Pacific is the product of commercial fishing – primarily the Asian fishing industry. Another huge chunk arises from the aftermath of a massive natural disaster. Ottawa’s public consultation on watery plastic waste is full of factoids such as “one garbage truck full of plastics is dumped into the ocean every minute” that leave the impression plastic straws are to blame for the horrors of marine pollution; in fact the real culprits are industrial fishing fleets half-a-world away.

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You are absolutely clueless on this issue and it's maddening to see that from someone who as a great deal of knowledge to share here. There will be lots of miss steps on improving things but to be so dismissive of options that are being discussed is quite silly and foolish. Imagine looking like that in a discussion involving someone you call climate barbie.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kickingfrog

You are absolutely clueless on this issue

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Every post I have made is substantiated by quoted facts by reputable sources...I'm well read on the topic so I think that it's you who, by being dismissive of these facts, put your side of the debate in peril.

If I ask 9/10 people who is "Climate Barbie" I will get a correct response. It might be a derogatory moniker, but it has stuck because it suits her. ie: did you know she used taxpayers money to buy a $115K Tesla for her government car ?

This subject could be beaten to death all day long. There is no real solution, there are certain products that we as humans "need" and no matter where they come from they will have a cost to the environment.

I've made a personal choice to reduce my use of certain items to reduce the garbage that I produce. That being said, I've worked in heavy industry for a while and believe me, the garbage produced is absolutely disgusting.

I think as far as ammunition is concerned, if there was an alternative that wasn't excessively expensive both monetarily and environmentally, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. That doesn't mean I would expect anybody else to be forced to.

Nobody really has the definitive answer.

Based on News Article from an European Newspaper,Word Wide Foundation recent study came up with data about Plastic pollution in the Mediterranean Sea: Every second 33800 plastic water bottles enter the Mediterranean Sea. Biggest areas polluted are the ones with heaviest Tourist activities:Venice,Barcelona,Tel Aviv,Marseilles,East coast of Turkey,.......200 million tourist a year in the Mediterranean Basin.Of all the generated plastic pollutants(24 MILLION tons a YEAR) 6.6 million goes to pollute the nature (land or sea).This practice is at highest magnitude in Turkey,Egypt and Italy.Some of this plastic in Turkey is actually coming from West European countries based on Garbage Importing-Recycling Businesses-they somewhat dump,not recycle.While fishing does more then its fair share of sea pollution-they found 20% of plastic pollutant in the Sea from fishing.The rest is from us.Never mind -they fish also for us...........

There is no reason to believe this is not the same World Wide-Pacific Ocean included.Yep-the Pacific is whole lot bigger,but the Coastal population is also as much larger.

Convenience,irresponsibility,lack of care for the nature,bad habits,bad public awareness,no other means available for consumers-just to name a few reasons.
Who benefits from pollution-who suffers from it-and who will pay the price ?would be the real question.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Every post I have made is substantiated by quoted facts by reputable sources...I'm well read on the topic so I think that it's you who, by being dismissive of these facts, put your side of the debate in peril.

If I ask 9/10 people who is "Climate Barbie" I will get a correct response. It might be a derogatory moniker, but it has stuck because it suits her. ie: did you know she used taxpayers money to buy a $115K Tesla for her government car ?

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"Every post" eh?

School yard names and claiming you're well read only works for presidents. Attack their actions. I am not going to defend a politician's spending line by line (They all are like pigs at the trough) but does a 115k car contrast that much with the norm? Maybe the norm is an issue but most politicians don't role in corollas. These are all away from the issue of trying to move forward and realize that things have to been done better than they have been done.

To keep things in perspective;

As was posted earlier and worth repeating: "These groups believe that banning the use of plastic bags is more about appearances and idealism than about protecting the environment.

This video highlights the fault with the 'Political' nonsense so many are buying into, especially the single use plastic hysteria :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJhtyb9BzrU

The real problem in Canada is the lack of recycling...only about 10% of our recyclables are recycled in this country...compared to Germany that has almost 50% success rates in ensure that plastics get recycled.

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"Something’s got to give – Canada needs to step up. We have been pushing the feds to come up with a strong national plan to deal with the 89 per cent of plastic not being recycled in Canada each year,” says Keith Brooks, program director at the Canadian group, Environmental Defence."

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Quote:

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According to official statistics, 48.8 percent of that plastic waste was recycled in Germany. Germany achieves a score of 66 percent, and leads the worldwide list. Wales follows in second place with 64 percent and Singapore is in third with 61 percent. "

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The problem is not the plastics themselves per-see...we NEED single use plastics to keep our food safe....but what we do with them after they're used. A far greater emphasis needs to be put on the need to recycle them and that should be our priority.

You know in Germany if you don't recycle your curbside garbage there are substantial fines..I believe, when I lived there, it was about $75 DM ($50 CDN) for each occurrence.

Let's see that work here in Canada HaHa....

This guy on the NP has few good points. Especially it was great his Starbucks sippy cup vs straw concern comparison.At the other hand he does not explain WHY we need that many plastic.He says-to protect our Oceans from plastic ,build dumps.How the humankind survived without plastic bags and plastic straws and plastic everywhere?Just 50 years ago ,when the modern -consumerism oriented society was in full growth mode,most of this was unheard of.There was no epical scale of food poisoning,and it was Ok to drink liquids from a glass,without straw .Just to name a few.

Lets make a point-i am not defending Trudeau's initiative here..........but condemning our lack of respect for the environment.
My wife came home from a store this morning.She bought groceries for her and me.Just part of our grocery needs,not enought even for a week.There were 4 plastic bags for-bulk sweet potato,bulk apple ,bulk bananas and bulk lemon.There was 1 hard plastic bag for yellow skinned potatoes and one with tomatoes,2 plastic hard tubs for sour cream and cottage cheese.One hard tub of cherry tomatoes. All this,for her and for me.Just for part of a week

Most of this groceries CAN NOT be bought any other way in any kind of Big Box store/Grocery store-and slowly even Farmers markets go down this road.
The answer is not-Sending Well Funded teams of Canadians to build Dumps,but to REDUCE plastic use,to the level we were 50 years ago ,and we were doing quite well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gbk

This guy on the NP has few good points. Especially it was great his Starbucks sippy cup vs straw concern comparison.At the other hand he does not explain WHY we need that many plastic.He says-to protect our Oceans from plastic ,build dumps.How the humankind survived without plastic bags and plastic straws and plastic everywhere?Just 50 years ago ,when the modern -consumerism oriented society was in full growth mode,most of this was unheard of.There was no epical scale of food poisoning,and it was Ok to drink liquids from a glass,without straw .Just to name a few.

Lets make a point-i am not defending Trudeau's initiative here..........but condemning our lack of respect for the environment.
My wife came home from a store this morning.She bought groceries for her and me.Just part of our grocery needs,not enought even for a week.There were 4 plastic bags for-bulk sweet potato,bulk apple ,bulk bananas and bulk lemon.There was 1 hard plastic bag for yellow skinned potatoes and one with tomatoes,2 plastic hard tubs for sour cream and cottage cheese.One hard tub of cherry tomatoes. All this,for her and for me.Just for part of a week

Most of this groceries CAN NOT be bought any other way in any kind of Big Box store/Grocery store-and slowly even Farmers markets go down this road.
The answer is not-Sending Well Funded teams of Canadians to build Dumps,but to REDUCE plastic use,to the level we were 50 years ago ,and we were doing quite well.

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if you want to really know what we did with out plastic 50 years ago. Glass, paper, card board, wax( yup some things were coated in wax), wood, straw( grass), clothes( cheese cloth, cotton, wool).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gbk

The answer is not-Sending Well Funded teams of Canadians to build Dumps,but to REDUCE plastic use,to the level we were 50 years ago ,and we were doing quite well.

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That comment falls in the category of 'idealism'...the not so realistic Hollywood imprinted memory of how wonderful things were way back when...it wasn't.

Consumers now demand products that are grown/produced 1/2 a world away but want them at rock bottom prices...to accommodate this shipping items has to be light weight and able to preserve the freshness....ie plastics..they are not going away.

A recent poll found that 2/3 of the people on the bandwagon want to see less plastic but won't spend more than $100/yr on their grocery bill to alter the status quo.

Quote:

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The survey results, the first in a series from a poll commissioned by CBC News and conducted by Public Square Research and Maru/Blue to capture a portrait of the country in this election year, found that while nearly two-thirds of Canadians see fighting climate change as a top priority, half of those surveyed would not shell out more than $100 per year in taxes to prevent climate change, the equivalent of less than $9 a month.

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The environmental /economic solution is too recycle the plastic that is produced..

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According to the U.S. EPA, plastic recycling results in significant energy savings compared with production of new plastics using virgin material.

• It costs approximately $4,000 to recycle one ton of plastic bags. But the selling price of these recycled bags is a couple of times more than the cost.
• 1,000–2,000 gallons of gasoline can be saved by recycling just one ton of plastics.
• Producing plastic products from recycled plastics reduces energy requirements by 66 percent.
• Around 2,000 pounds of oil, the amount of water used by one person in two month’s time and two people’s energy consumption for one year can be saved by recycling just one ton of plastic wastes.

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• Targets: A possible a national recycling target of at least 85 per cent by 2025, and 100 per cent captured, so that no more plastic is entering the environment
• Legislation: Putting the onus on producers to be financially and operationally responsible for cleaning up their own plastic products. Similar to how beer bottles are returned to the beer store for recycling"

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Quote:

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A recent report done by Deloitte and ChemInfo Services for Environment and Climate Change Canada found a 90-per-cent plastics recycling rate in Canada could create 42,000 jobs.

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The reality...

Good article that shows the truth of the matter....few would give up the conveniences we have to make our lives more environmentally friendly:

Quote:

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The concern about cost was most starkly demonstrated when respondents were asked how much they would be willing to pay in taxes every year to help prevent climate change.

Nearly one-third, or 32 per cent, said they were unwilling to pay anything at all, while 17 per cent said they would be willing to pay less than $100 in taxes every year. Netflix's most basic plan comes in at a yearly price tag of $120.

Another 16 per cent of respondents were willing to pay between $100 and $500 per year — the equivalent of between $8.33 and $41.67 per month. Just seven per cent were willing to pay between $500 and $1,000 per year, while only three per cent would pay more than $1,000 per year in taxes to help prevent climate change.

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https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ele...ange-1.5178514

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

The reality...

Good article that shows the truth of the matter....few would give up the conveniences we have to make our lives more environmentally friendly:




https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ele...ange-1.5178514

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What’s that saying again? Talk is cheap? Those self righteous virtue signalling hypocrites like to preach as long as the other pays for it. Climate change Trudough burns more jet fuel in the government planes and spews more emissions on completely useless trips but hey, they drink water out of boxes right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

if you want to really know what we did with out plastic 50 years ago. Glass, paper, card board, wax( yup some things were coated in wax), wood, straw( grass), clothes( cheese cloth, cotton, wool).

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I know very well,was around ,and we did quite well.Most of the things You mentioned are renewable resources.Key is not to make them disposable,but reliable,sturdy enough and reusable.You know,my Mom is still using her willow weave Shopping basket from the 60-ies.Twice a week she uses it. Now,she was not brought up in a throw away environment............

[QUOTE=MikePal;1087182]That comment falls in the category of 'idealism'...the not so realistic Hollywood imprinted memory of how wonderful things were way back when....it wasn't.

Well Mike -This comment falls into category of "ignorance and denial".
I never said anywhere ,the things were wonderful back then.What i said is-we did well without the plastics.We can debate this all year long,but we did.
Now-all the rest of the comments are very well in category of"realism"because ppl do talk,but they are not willing to spend on environment.

Truly reducing and recycling is the answer.........however we need to remember that the heralded NP guy was promoting-BURY the plastic.

Big big difference in opinions juts in few posts........burying in dumps or recycling/reusing !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gbk

Big big difference in opinions juts in few posts........burying in dumps or recycling/reusing !

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Actually, as I stated a few pages back, I'm for incineration waste and producing usable energy. Singapore found the answer for saving this planet....divert 60% to recycle, re-purpose and re-use...incinerate the rest...

And then there’s Climate Barbie, the Minister of the Environment, the Liberals appointee to develop innovative ideas for Canada to become a world leader in finding a solution to Climate Change and what does she come up with…..she bans Drinking Straws….HaHa..

Maybe Turdo should concern himself more with the gross overpackaging of his overpriced gubmint weed.
Last week I was working out of town,and against my better judgement and breaking my vow to NOT give Turdo one extra cent of my hard earned money then he already takes every week,I stopped in to local weed shop.
2x3.5gram BUCKETS of weed....one of the 3.5g doses came in a cardboard box.Inside that cardboard box was a hard plastic/non-recyclable pill bottle,complete with paper backed aluminum foil seal,the container is large enough to hold at least 2-3x as much product as what is found inside.
The other 3.5 grammar came in a large square single use plastic container the size of a bloody Rubik’s cube for Chrissakes!! Could easily stuff an ounce in that thing.
IIRC, I paid around $67 all in with taxes on top of taxes......could bought the same 7g in a 3 cent sandwich bag for 50 bucks from the kid at 7/11 if I was closer to home,and his weed kicks Turdo weed’s azz.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grinr

Maybe Turdo should concern himself more with the gross overpackaging of his overpriced gubmint weed.
Last week I was working out of town,and against my better judgement and breaking my vow to NOT give Turdo one extra cent of my hard earned money then he already takes every week,I stopped in to local weed shop.
2x3.5gram BUCKETS of weed....one of the 3.5g doses came in a cardboard box.Inside that cardboard box was a hard plastic/non-recyclable pill bottle,complete with paper backed aluminum foil seal,the container is large enough to hold at least 2-3x as much product as what is found inside.
The other 3.5 grammar came in a large square single use plastic container the size of a bloody Rubik’s cube for Chrissakes!! Could easily stuff an ounce in that thing.
IIRC, I paid around $67 all in with taxes on top of taxes......could bought the same 7g in a 3 cent sandwich bag for 50 bucks from the kid at 7/11 if I was closer to home,and his weed kicks Turdo weed’s azz.

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Medical verses Recreational ???

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Originally Posted by jaycee

[/B]

Medical verses Recreational ???

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Been medicating for recrational purposes for almost 40 years now.....never needed Turdo’s permission for 4 decades,sure as F didn’t vote for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by terrym

What’s that saying again? Talk is cheap? Those self righteous virtue signalling hypocrites like to preach as long as the other pays for it. Climate change Trudough burns more jet fuel in the government planes and spews more emissions on completely useless trips but hey, they drink water out of boxes right?

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I see Terrym that you too look up and see the real burning issue, “Climate change Trudough burns more jet fuel in the government planes and spews more emissions on completely useless trips...” regrettable so does his Minister of the Environment. What I’m wondering is if you recall, the name of the individual who approached PM Harper a number of years back, pointing out the only hope to save the planet was to grow air travel, I believe he was a European scientist, but what he was suggesting was billed as just plain nonsense. Maybe it wasn’t. Meanwhile the issue of fining other means of reducing environmental CO2 has virtually sky-rocketed. What would the jet-set ever do, without a quick efficient way of getting around? It’s obvious that such an idea would deal quite a blow to world economics, not to mention the unemployment crisis it would foster in many countries. That said, you may argue the pluses of air travel if you choose, but IMHO numerous ground level interests are paying one “H” of a price for the convenience of flight.


You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

Not only is the ill conceived law to ban plastics straws useless....it has resulted in a women being killed and hurt a bunch of kids ....

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A British woman died when she fell onto her reusable straw, a coroner said in an inquest this week that highlighted the possible dangers of metal straws, The New York Times reported.
Elena Struthers-Gardner, 60, who had a disability, was carrying a mason-jar style drinking glass with a screw-top in her home in Broadstone, England, in November 2018 when she collapsed.
The 10-inch stainless-steel straw penetrated her left eye and pierced her brain, according to the coroner’s report released on Monday, which called the death an accident.

In 2016, Starbucks recalled 2.5 million stainless-steel straws due to reports of young children who experienced mouth lacerations from using the straws, according to U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Not only is the ill conceived law to ban plastics straws useless....it has resulted in a women being killed and hurt a bunch of kids ....

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Actually MikePal it wasn’t that the law to ban plastic straw was ill conceived it was the idea of coming up with something that would have more permanency and re-usability than say plastic. The default, of course, led to mental construction. We wouldn’t want to return to the single use wax-cardboard straw, that would be going backwards, and might result in the cutting down of too many trees. Somewhere we got caught up between re-usability and commonsense. The idea of single use was not really the problem, the problem was the material i.e. plastic and its expected half-life. Of course, there is a health consideration with the permanency of the mental straw. They have to be cleaned for reuse each time to prevent the spread of germs. Another application for the good old gun cleaning rod or pull through. However, I suppose a good thorough rinsing with hot water might achieve the same end.


You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

A woman in England , was killed by her stainless steel straw that pierced her eye and brain as she fell forward on her drink container with the metal straw sticking out, an accident , yes ! and a terrible tragedy .
This was just in the local newspaper.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

Actually MikePal it wasn’t that the law to ban plastic straw was ill conceived it was the idea of coming up with something that would have more permanency and re-usability than say plastic.

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Exactly...find a solution for plastic waste rather than trying ban the use of. All that does is stress our economy ( increase the cost of everything) and create more of a carbon footprint.

Netherlands for example....turns their 'use once' plastic into roads and walkways...this is the type of innovation that Canada requires not that 'virtual signalling crap Liberals are so fond of that pretends we're doing something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=QBZN2UAfvwY

If we really want to clean up there are much more important things than CO2. How about the pollution that goes in our water.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Exactly...find a solution for plastic waste rather than trying ban the use of. All that does is stress our economy ( increase the cost of everything) and create more of a carbon footprint.

Netherlands for example....turns their 'use once' plastic into roads and walkways...this is the type of innovation that Canada requires not that 'virtual signalling crap Liberals are so fond of that pretends we're doing something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=QBZN2UAfvwY

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Well put MikePal, the Liberal seemingly do nothing, but like to be seen as doing something, when they can’t come up with any effective solutions. Their fall back position is let’s create another tax, that way it will demonstrate to the public it’s a serious matter and we’re raising the resources to deal with it. Even if the caveat is to raise revenues in order to buy votes by handing out gift credits at income tax time. That way they get money in advance to initiate new programming, before they have to budget for it, or they have to provide the promised tax credit.


You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gun Nut

Their fall back position is let’s create another tax, that way it will demonstrate to the public it’s a serious matter and we’re raising the resources to deal with it.

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Not for a minute do I think the Carbon Tax is anything but Liberal social engineering. Their approach to Climate change is to make driving a car so expensive that people will drive less. Great way to make the middle class taxpayers life better..make it so they have to ride public transport from the burbs into the city every morning.

All the while the minister drives a $115K Tesla she billed to the taxpayers for her drive to work.

Great plan eh !!

love this..typical of political knee jerk legislation;

Quote:

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London (CNN) McDonald's has reportedly admitted that its new paper straws, rolled out last year to help "protect the environment," can't be recycled — unlike the plastic versions they replaced.

But the fast food giant acknowledged on Monday that the new versions are too thick to be processed by its recyclers.
"While the materials are recyclable, their current thickness makes it difficult for them to be processed by our waste solution providers, who also help us recycle our paper cups," a McDonald's spokesman told the UK's Press Association news agency.

The issue was first revealed by The Sun newspaper, which published an internal McDonald's (MCD) memo saying that the company's paper straws "are not yet recyclable and should be disposed of in general waste until further notice."
When the firm announced the introduction of paper straws in June 2018, it said the move was "part of wider efforts to protect the environment."

"The government's ambitious plans, combined with strong customer opinion, has helped to accelerate the move away from plastic and I'm proud that we've been able to play our part in helping to achieve this societal change," Paul Pomroy, CEO of McDonald's UK and Ireland, said in a press release at the time.

The plastic straws previously used could be recycled, but the British government has moved to ban plastic straws by 2020 and encouraged chains to ditch the products.

Then-Environment Secretary Michael Gove congratulated McDonald's on "making this significant contribution to help our natural environment" when the initial move was made last year.

But the new straws were unpopular even before the latest revelation.

Numerous social media users complained that they became soggy in drinks, and a petition calling on the firm to bring back their old straws has been signed more than 50,000 times.

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Im still baffled as to why everyone wants to decimate the forests, I thought we were trying to save them. But screw it rev those chainsaw start the clear cutting if it's standing mow it down. Screw the next generation we don't need forests (Actually had a few young adults say that)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

Im still baffled as to why everyone wants to decimate the forests, I thought we were trying to save them. But screw it rev those chainsaw start the clear cutting if it's standing mow it down. Screw the next generation we don't need forests (Actually had a few young adults say that)

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Really greatwhite. We have sawmills and paper mills that been around for over a hundred year. The forest is still there and in better shape than ever. It’s a renewable resource that keeps thousand of Canadian employed.

True..but when you use the imagery of helping the environment planting forests in one photo op...then banning plastic and replacing it with paper bags and cardboard straws ...that is called hypocrisy.

Climate Barbie admiring a future straw..haha...

https://i.imgur.com/V1RKJcPm.jpg

Actually in the 1970's + we were told to use plastic and save the tree's in fact I believe even Suzuki said it as well.

There was a lot more clear cutting back many years ago than there is now. Talking to a Forest crew up north on the weekend they rarely clear cut now. I cut in the woods in NS back in 1988 and we were just starting into so called Forest Management.

Yes Tree's are a renewable source but ecosystems are not and you cannot plant a mono culture forest and expect the same ecosystem that use to be there. In fact clear cutting up North had a large effect on the Caribou and still does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Really greatwhite. We have sawmills and paper mills that been around for over a hundred year. The forest is still there and in better shape than ever. It’s a renewable resource that keeps thousand of Canadian employed.

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Good example of innovative thinking by a Canadian company...use recycled plastics to create fuel.

Not word or a $ from the Liberal Environmental minster.

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A pilot project in Whitby, Ont., is using technology to give plastic waste a second life by turning it into diesel fuel and gasoline.
The technology, dubbed the Phoenix, can convert single-use items like plastic bags and Styrofoam — items that would otherwise end up in landfill.
"Five tonnes of plastic can be converted into about 4,000 litres. And 4,000 litres can drive our whole fleet of 10 vehicles back and forth every day running 16 hours a day."

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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...esel-1.5242407

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

Actually in the 1970's + we were told to use plastic and save the tree's in fact I believe even Suzuki said it as well.

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He sells tinfoil hats too...lmao