MNRF cuts.

[Ontariofarmer]

The flip side of the junk mail


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[trimmer21]

So the public sector unions sending me this mail box junk so the gravy train union can influence my vote and improve their pay checks and jeopardize our financial stability


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Just mark it as "spam" and send it to your junk file. That's what I did with it.

[Ontariofarmer]

Just mark it as "spam" and send it to your junk file. That's what I did with it.

It came to my rural mail box. A Very costly use of union dues


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[trimmer21]

It came to my rural mail box. A Very costly use of union dues


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Yep,but,it's their members money,not yours.so,it's mere aggravation,but,only from your mailbox to your recycle box,right? That's what socialists do....turn money into garbage.

[MarkB]

Seriously Mark? You don't think companies can be unreasonable, abusive and constantly stepping up demands? Get a grip. Don't let your view of "companies" be limited to your family's construction business.

Yes, there can be abuse by unions and companies alike, but you refuse to see the other side.



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I didn't say that ... please quote exactly where I said that, or stop putting cR@P in my mouth ... don't make stuff up! You are painting unions to be this idealogical organization ... they are not. They abuse power, I have first hand info that says so. I know companies are out there that are also not ethical, but we have labor laws. My wife was a victim to one such unethical company ... and so I am very well versed on the other side of the equation.

Stop twisting my words.

[MarkB]

So the public sector unions sending me this mail box junk so the gravy train union can influence my vote and improve their pay checks and jeopardize our financial stability

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I agree, that is wrong.

[MarkB]

Compared to all other unionized jobs? Public and private health care, service, retail, manufacturing, delivery and transportation services, etc., etc.

Construction trades make up a share but don't come anywhere near being the majority. Show me something otherwise.

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I don't have a number ... that was a legit question. What is the number, do you have it? If it's insignificant ... then you're right, but if it's anything over 10%, I'd say it's a problem.

[GW11]

I didn't say that ... please quote exactly where I said that, or stop putting cR@P in my mouth ... don't make stuff up! You are painting unions to be this idealogical organization ... they are not. They abuse power, I have first hand info that says so. I know companies are out there that are also not ethical, but we have labor laws. My wife was a victim to one such unethical company ... and so I am very well versed on the other side of the equation.

Stop twisting my words.

Not twisting your words any more than you're twisting mine. Above you stated that I refused to believe that unions abuse companies. Read back a ways and see that I did state that there is always a percentage of members that will paint an ugly picture of the larger group. Unfortunately they are still members and they have a right to file grievances and the right to fair representation, which in some cases (as I know first hand) makes representatives feel like criminal defence lawyers. It's still part of the process.

If I'm making unions seem like ideological organizations, you're making companies seem like charities because they're willing to provide the minimum legal requirement.

Labour laws are a bare minimum baseline. Unions help to raise workers above that baseline. As discussed way back in the thread, plenty of people don't have a problem negotiating their own salary, benefits and vacation with a reasonable employer based on their worth, but those jobs don't exist for the majority, and the majority of people aren't very good at negotiating their own terms.

You sound like a reasonable guy Mark, but I know your view won't be changed. We can agree to disagree. Your family has had some pretty negative experiences with unions and that has solidified your opinion. The fact is I see it and live it every day and my opinion won't be changed either. My employer is definitely not the same as your family business so our experiences are probably quite different.

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[GW11]

I don't have a number ... that was a legit question. What is the number, do you have it? If it's insignificant ... then you're right, but if it's anything over 10%, I'd say it's a problem.

I really don't know, but the number of unionized workers is a bit over 30% of the workforce and construction trades would make up a small portion of that 30%.

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[fishermccann]

Yep,but,it's their members money,not yours.so,it's mere aggravation,but,only from your mailbox to your recycle box,right? That's what socialists do....turn money into garbage.

" Socialism is a scare word they have hurled at every advance the people have made in the last 20 years. Socialism is what they called public power. Socialism is what they called Social Security. Socialism is what they called farm price supports. Socialism is what they called bank deposit insurance. Socialism is what they called the growth of free and independent labour organizations. Socialism is their name for almost anything that helps all the people. " Harry S. Truman. Oct. 1952....... His words still ring true today.