Bizarre Truth About Purebred Dogs :)

[Sharon]

You made a good point Ben about the shortage of entries in CKC and AKC events.
The CKC is working on including mixed breeds in their Obedience events.
The AKC has gone a step farther:

"There are many special benefits to owning a purebred. At the top of the list are matters of predictability and reliability.Purebred dogs are the result of a long process of selective breeding for specific physical attributes and temperaments. When you buy a purebred puppy you know what to expect as far as size, amount and type of coat, and temperament in the grown dog.
When considering a purebred dog it is possible to narrow down the choices to those that most clearly fit your personal lifestyle and interests. For example, will the dog be good with children? Will you have the time to groom and exercise the dog properly? If you buy a dog with qualities you want it's more likely you'll be a responsible owner.
A good purebred breeder will tell you why his or her breed is not for everyone and help guide you to a breed more suited to your lifestyle. These breeders also have the experience to give puppies the care and nurturing they need at critical early stages. This not only insures you'll have a healthy puppy, but that the puppy is much less likely to develop into a difficult or impossible adult.
As an advocate for all dogs and dog owners, AKC will launch a special Mixed Breed Listing program in the fall of 2009. This service will allow owners of mixed breeds participate in standalone AKC Agility, Obedience, and Rally trials. " quote AKC

[ebenezer]

I feel badly for people who have a mixed breed or an unregistered dog that would like to get into some of the performance events but also feel that it is not the mandate of the CKC or the AKC to provide these events for them. These two registries were established for maintaining a system of registration for purebred dogs. Perhaps this is where it should begin and end and leave the the performance events in the hands of the variuous clubs that work their tails off to put events on. I know that it is the all mighty dollar that is driving this trend towards allowing mixed breeds to compete but feel that by doing so the CKC and the AKC will put themselves on the same level of credibility as the Continental Kennel Club. If their direction is to include mixed breeds then they should set up a totally separate umbrella group and call it something entirely different in association with the CKC or AKC, not included in the registry. What legitamacy will a title on a purebred dog have if the same title can be achieved by a mixed breed? What incentive will there be for breeders to title their dogs? Will all mixed breed dogs competing in performance events need to provide certificates of spay or neuter before that can join? Separate associations such as the Canadian Association of Rally Obedience (CARO ) could be used as models for setting up events.

[JBen]

Not sure, but there seem to be some "misunderstanding". One of the great things in life when you understand the world is rarely black or white (usually shades of grey) is that it means you can appreciate, see, take different "sides" in the same topic. Almost like being unbiased

As is typical with many threads there seems to be a handful of things being…tabled. Im avoiding most

As stated a few times, if and when my life allows me to make the commitment to the dog, a purebred Toller will be what I get. So misunderstandings, or "justifications" (catch all word) extolling the benefits or reasons of and for going that route are wasted on me

Very well said.

Reminder to folks that if they get an American Field pedigreed dog, )FDSB), it won't be recognized by the CKC. This will limit your opportunities in Canada.

( Great talking to you guys. My husband is yelling at me to get off the computer. ) Au revoir.

Can you give me 2 or 3 good reasons for that?

[welsh]

What legitamacy will a title on a purebred dog have if the same title can be achieved by a mixed breed?

I don't see that it makes the title any less legitimate, as long as the standards haven't changed.

[Sharon]

Originally Posted Aug. 1 by Sharon
...................Reminder to folks that if they get an American Field pedigreed dog, )FDSB), it won't be recognized by the CKC. This will limit your opportunities in Canada. ..................." quote
......................

Can you give me 2 or 3 good reasons for that?" quote J Ben
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I can give you one reason; I'm sure others know other reasons.


The FDSB ( Field Dog Stud Book) registration has been around since 1874. Purpose is to focus on dogs bred to perform in the field- pointing ,flushing ,retrieving. Through many years of breeding , the English setter and pointer were bred differently for field work - smaller dog, fewer feathers etc.
The FDSB supports NO conformation showing ; this is not to say that the breeder isn't looking for certain attributes when breeding - large chest/aerobic function, high tail set/ mostly white color ( to see better in the cover), etc.
As there is no conformation requirements for Champions, this is one reason the CKC doesn't recognize the FDSB.
Unfortunate, as many owners of FDSB registered dogs would be glad to participate in CKC test/trials too, thereby increasing the CKC's participants.

FDSB registered setter:




CKC registered setter:

https://www.ckc.ca/en/Choosing-a-Dog...Setter-English

[JBen]

"As there is no conformation requirements for Champions, this is one reason the CKC doesn't recognize the FDSB."

Do you consider that a "good" reason? I don't. Essentially "racism" (A rose by any other name) based on how the dog/breed "looks" aka the color of its skin, the shape or lines blah blah blah.

[Sharon]

Well, CKC has traditionally been the guardian of conformation., for the 100 + breeds. I think that's a good thing. You want a toller that looks like a toller, to be available to folks who want a toller that meets the CKC standard for tollers. CKC does a good service in that way.

However when it comes to trials and tests I don't see any reason for the CKC to not allow FDSB registered dogs. Then again I do.

If a FDSB registered setter , (above) wins everything ,becomes a Champion, ( breeding starts to happen), the CKC wouldn't want that style of setter to become the conformation standard.

I understand their position.

Then again , just because a FDSB registered setter wins the CKC trial, doesn't mean that has to affect the CKC standard for setters.
Probably some kind of fear involved that it might.
(I think I've had too much coffee and gone in circles here. )

PS There are CKC dual champions - field and conformation- but they are few and far between.

When you get your Toller, decide if you want a beautifully looking /conformationally perfect Toller or a Toller you can hunt with. Choose your breeder accordingly. That's one dog that I don't think can be both, but I could be wrong.

Thanks for giving me something to do with my bum knee JBen.

[krakadawn]

Retriever field trials shall be open to all purebred

Retrievers and IrishWater Spaniels which are eligible

for registration or are registered in the CKC stud

book. All dogs must be 6 months of age or over on

the first day of the trial.

6.1.3 If a dog is not registered individually in the CKC

stud book, it may be entered at a trial held under

these regulations as a “listed” dog, provided that:

(a) If born in Canada, it is eligible for individual

registration.

(b) If not born in Canada, it is eligible for individual

registration in the records of the CKC.

(c) If foreign born and owned, it has an Event Registration

Number, or obtains this number from

the CKC within 30 days of the first trial

entered.

6.1.4 The entry of a listed dog at a field trial held under

these rules (sanctioned field trials excluded) must be

accompanied by the appropriate listing fee and all

listing fees must be remitted by the club holding the

trial to the CKC within 21 days after the trial.

6.1.5 The CKC shall have the right at any time to require

the owner of a listed dog to submit proof of the dog’s

eligibility for registration in the CKC stud book. If the

CKC is satisfied that the dog is not eligible for registration

in the CKC stud book, it shall have the right

to order the cancellation of all wins, championship

points and prizes earned by the dogs at these trials.

6.2 Entry Forms

6.2.1 The following information must appear on each

entry form:

(a) Registered name of dog

(b) CKC individual registration number (if registered

in the CKC stud book), Event Registration

Number or foreign registration number

(c) Name of breed

(d) Sex of dog

(e) Date and place of birth

(f) Names of sire and dam

(g) Names of breeders

(h) Stake entered

This is the current and up to date description around requirements of dogs entered. I provide this not to argue the case for purebreds over non but only to provide what 'is'. I agree with Ebenezer when she questions the role of CKC. Certainly what started as a registry for dogs has broadened in many respects regarding our competitions and of course the amount of $$$ we must submit to them following a competition.

[Sharon]

Good post.

Just to clarify for JBen - those rules are for AKC registered dogs and maybe Continental registry , NAVHDA and UKC registry? but not for FDSB registered dogs.

[MikePal]

The silver lining JBen is that the dog society is evolving away from the rigid 'purebred' AKC demands for trials and shows and as an organization, the AKC it's sinking fast. Attendance at shows is down, new memberships have waned drastically in the past few years. Apparently not something new dog owners are interesting in anymore.

However, the explosion in popularity of the of the 'open' AAC Agility trials in both Canada and the US will allow 'all' dogs to participate and be 'champions'. Far more entertaining to watch to boot.

http://www.aac.ca/en/home/main/