goodbye Hunting in Hamilton

Attended the meeting in Binbrook tuesday night regarding the new proposed firearms bylaws to take effect this fall.
The city remodelled its "Firearms" discharge maps for most of the region. This was to be expected due to the new development in the city, and binbrook areas.
However, the bombshell dropped by the city at the meeting is that this will include all "weapons" including guns, bows, crossbows, air guns. With these new maps and this new bylaw, its goin to eliminate huge sections of rural stoney creek/winona mountain, binbrook, mount hope that currently is "Bow Only" hunting and some areas for shotgun hunting.
This is still not official and they took alot of our input at the meeting regarding "firearms" not to include bows , however if this passes through its taking away huge areas for bow hunters.
There was alot of B.S that these city officials didnt understand ... and we had a few hunters arguing the case which wasnt enough, and of course the couple "know it all" Anti's there just saying stupid to cause proplems...
this will be a huge loss for archery hunters in the area so hopefully anyone living here or hunting here could look into attending another meeting, i believe there is 2 more meeting to show these changes and get input before it goes to city council to be voted on.
If this makes it to city vote as the way it was presented tuesday, it will pass and we are all out of luck.

Also mentioned, Grimsby is next in line to eliminate hunting 100% within its town limits. Great chance for hunters in the area to get together and save what little area we have here.

Get the OFAH involved.

They receive dues from hunters across the province, to advocate on our behalf. I'm sure they can put together a decent position piece for the politicians to read, after all, this isn't the first time something like this has happened where they got involved.

Thanks Blue! Definatly sending them a email this morning !

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Please post the other dates if you have them.

Thanks
RB

Thanks Goosehound. I am interested and would like to attend the meetings as well as I bowhunt in the Ancaster / Dundas Area. I wonder if this will put a stop to the native hunt in the Dundas Valley as well (sarcasm).

haha john.
Our councellor here is Brenda Walker ( [email protected] )..would love for her email to blow up with emails from hunters in the area....
I am not sure about Ancaster/dundas... I was more concerned for east mountain and was pretty heated about it....so I didnt check all the maps. It seems to me like its a huge step towards ZERO hunting in the Hamilton area...
My favourite part was how there were telling us to go ahead and kill nuisance deer and coyotes....completly oblivious of the MNR laws regarding that , exspecially the deer . There was ALOT of contradicting going on and it was rediculous.

Most of the communities around the Golden Horseshoe are enacting by-laws like this. Development is moving faster and faster all the time. Areas where we used to hunt are being swallowed up at record rates,so,we have to expect this to happen,sooner or later. It's sad,but,it's reality.

understood Trimmer, however alot of the areas they want to change are not being developed...and alot of our area is under the "Green Belt" which doesnt allow for development, meaning nothing has or will drastically change anytime soon.
i am not debating that the new regs being placed for binbrook is bad, its developed and change is needed, however to throw alot of other areas into that mix is no needed .

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

Get the OFAH involved.

They receive dues from hunters across the province, to advocate on our behalf. I'm sure they can put together a decent position piece for the politicians to read, after all, this isn't the first time something like this has happened where they got involved.

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Please contact me at [email protected], or call 705-748-6324, extension 246. We knew nothing about this, and will absolutely get involved.

Great news mcrae. Thanks

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Originally Posted by mcrae

Please contact me at [email protected], or call 705-748-6324, extension 246. We knew nothing about this, and will absolutely get involved.

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....and this folks...is why you become, and stay, a member.....

Contacted the city, next meeting is April 4 at 300 Wilson St. E., in the Murray Ferguson Community Room at 7 pm.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

....and this folks...is why you become, and stay, a member.....

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X2..without doubt. :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

Thanks Goosehound. I am interested and would like to attend the meetings as well as I bowhunt in the Ancaster / Dundas Area. I wonder if this will put a stop to the native hunt in the Dundas Valley as well (sarcasm).

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I doubt it.......

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Originally Posted by Redbull

Contacted the city, next meeting is April 4 at 300 Wilson St. E., in the Murray Ferguson Community Room at 7 pm.

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Marked. I'll attend

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Originally Posted by Redbull

Contacted the city, next meeting is April 4 at 300 Wilson St. E., in the Murray Ferguson Community Room at 7 pm.

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Definitely repost as we get closer to the date. build a group. it's not my area, but always important.

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Originally Posted by mcrae

Please contact me at [email protected], or call 705-748-6324, extension 246. We knew nothing about this, and will absolutely get involved.

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Now this makes me proud to be a member...
Please keep us posted

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

X2..without doubt. :thumbup:

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X3 absolutely !

Keep us up to date, I would like to attend as well.

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Originally Posted by mcrae

Please contact me at [email protected], or call 705-748-6324, extension 246. We knew nothing about this, and will absolutely get involved.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

....and this folks...is why you become, and stay, a member.....

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

X2..without doubt. :thumbup:

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by fratri

Now this makes me proud to be a member...
Please keep us posted

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

X3 absolutely !

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I agree with all the above.................

Don't buy the "Greenbelt" designation as anything special. We had the signs up here on the 401 between Salem Rd in Ajax across to Brock st in Whitby, then the signs disappeared overnight and the new 412 Toll connector to the new 407 east went in. Back filled a nice swamp by the Lynde creek the waterfowl used to like to use and they laid waste to the "Greenspace" in short order. Politicians saying one thing to look like they give a crap and then doing the exact opposite when it suits their agenda.

Maybe the city should be enlightened to how thunder bay has handled this. Government agencies like to save work and time and copy other government agencies. Of course thunder bay voters would have a very different view of urban hunting than Hamilton voters.
I live in the golden horseshoe in a no discharge zone. When speaking with farmers it seems most of the permission to hunt here is held by cops. A couple of weeks ago there were waterfowl hunters going for the entire day. They were no more than 2 kms from new neighborhoods and stores. No one did anything to stop it all day. Fine with me but my poor dog was a wreck. She doesn't like guns.

HD

One thing is for sure. Hamilton's Mayor, made it very clear off the top of his mandate that he wanted a total ban on guns in Hamilton. This was due to a couple of closely timed shootings downtown, very near the time he became Mayor. So we have to contend with that.

thanks for the info, i live in the area and had debated on going to the meeting in binbrook. i will definitely goto the next meeting please keep us posted. also very happy that my ofah dues are going to good use and doing what they are meant to do.

Update....

Just wanting to keep everyone up to speed, the OFAH has made initial contact with the City of Hamilton's Bylaw Enforcement Manager. We have formally requested to be included in the creation/amendment process to ensure that hunting/recreational shooting opportunities aren't overly restricted/eliminated, while continuing to respect public safety.

It is our understanding that we will be given that opportunity, and hope to be involved in those conversations very soon.

Thanks mcrae.

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Originally Posted by mcrae

Update....

Just wanting to keep everyone up to speed, the OFAH has made initial contact with the City of Hamilton's Bylaw Enforcement Manager. We have formally requested to be included in the creation/amendment process to ensure that hunting/recreational shooting opportunities aren't overly restricted/eliminated, while continuing to respect public safety.

It is our understanding that we will be given that opportunity, and hope to be involved in those conversations very soon.

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Great to hear, thank you for following-up

RB

Glad to see ofah and others stepping up.. Keep this at the top of the forum
plan to attend. Let's get out in force

This hits close to home and I had no idea, looks like I should make plans to attend on the 4th. Thanks OFAH and O.P

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Originally Posted by fishslayer

One thing is for sure. Hamilton's Mayor, made it very clear off the top of his mandate that he wanted a total ban on guns in Hamilton. This was due to a couple of closely timed shootings downtown, very near the time he became Mayor. So we have to contend with that.

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the big issue here is they want to ban "ALL Weapons" including bows, guns, air guns.....like mentioned prior, we knew the changed were comming in developed areas, however, changing this bylaw will include huge areas of open farmland in the east and will eliminate all hunting in those areas.

We will definatly keep this post updated, I had a good chat with Mcrae, OFHA is on board as he noted in another post...I will add posts about future meetings as they come up. Glad to see everyones interest and concern, Its seems like the city was trying to sneak this in quietly and I am glad I made it to the meeting. Looking forward to seeing everyone out at the next meeting!

It would appear that this is being driven by an "anti-gun" Mayor with an agenda. Again,here's another politician equating the criminal use of firearms with the hunting community who use firearms responsibly. He needs to be shown that they're mutually exclusive in that one has ZERO to do with the other. It's time he was given an attitude adjustment.

Anyone have a copy of the proposed map? Or know where to find one.

Thanks

Been looking Farmer, cant find it.

It is proposed will not be posted until final...

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Originally Posted by pbonura

It is proposed will not be posted until final...

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I asked the By-Law officer, exactly what pbonura said above.

Essentially did not want to cause confusion until passed by council.

RB

I posted this on CGN if anyone hasn't yet. I will attend the next meeting as I hunt 87D

no maps released yet....
if you attend the meeting they had them on display there....

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Originally Posted by Redbull

Contacted the city, next meeting is April 4 at 300 Wilson St. E., in the Murray Ferguson Community Room at 7 pm.

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It should be stated the next meeting will take place in Ancaster (300 Wilson St. E is the public library there).

I have also be in contact with the city and the lady I spoke with said the target date to include the report regarding the City's Discharge of Firearms By-law on the Planning Committee agenda is May 17th. If the report is ready for this agenda, a copy will be available for viewing on May 11th.

Dyth

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

It should be stated the next meeting will take place in Ancaster (300 Wilson St. E is the public library there).

I have also be in contact with the city and the lady I spoke with said the target date to include the report regarding the City's Discharge of Firearms By-law on the Planning Committee agenda is May 17th. If the report is ready for this agenda, a copy will be available for viewing on May 11th.

Dyth

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Thanks Dythbringer

we have to keep this post at the top....we are going to need alot of support

I met a guy at the outdoor show. he is part of ducks unlimited. apparently they are now involved as well as the OFAH

That could only be a good thing.

Sounds like they almost passed the Bylaw without anyone noticing until it's too late. Other cities are watching how this is handled I'm sure so in a way you guys are fighting on behalf of many other hunters living close to expanding urban area. Keep up the good work ... it could be a precedent setting bylaw.

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Originally Posted by DanO

Sounds like they almost passed the Bylaw without anyone noticing until it's too late. Other cities are watching how this is handled I'm sure so in a way you guys are fighting on behalf of many other hunters living close to expanding urban area. Keep up the good work ... it could be a precedent setting bylaw.

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I agree as Township of Bradford delayed there changes to discharge of firearm bylaw for council to look over before passing the Sunday gun hunt, the may follow suit

I plan to show up!! I hope everyone else can make it!

Just a reminder to everyone, the meeting is being held monday evening I believe in ancaster!
Just waitning on a email to confirm times, and location.
If anyone else has the info feel free to post!

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Originally Posted by GooseHound82

Just a reminder to everyone, the meeting is being held monday evening I believe in ancaster!
Just waitning on a email to confirm times, and location.
If anyone else has the info feel free to post!

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It has been stated in early posts the time and place. See you there.

I'm going to try and make it as well!

Hey All,

Got a email today from the OFAH and there is a meeting on Monday April 4th @ 7pm!!! It is being held at the Murray Ferguson Community Room located at 300 Wilson Street East, Ancaster. This will be to discuss potential amendments to the Discharge of Firearms bylaw.

***This is more of a reminder as i just noticed time and date posted earlier***

i don't hunt this area but I will attend. Thanks to everyone for supporting this!

Get the word out to as many as possible they tried this about ten years ago and changed their plans because of the public input. word of advice do not feed the anti's that will be at the meeting that is what they will be hoping for and try to antagonise people to get the reaction they want. Lets pack this meeting and get our voice heard.

ill be there as well. how will we knnow the hunters? lol should we all wear hunter orange?

just bumping this back to the top for a reminder of tonight's meeting


[COLOR=#333333]meeting on Monday April 4th @ 7pm!!! It is being held at the Murray Ferguson Community Room located at 300 Wilson Street East, Ancaster. This will be to discuss potential amendments to the Discharge of Firearms bylaw.

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Originally Posted by GooseHound82

Attended the meeting in Binbrook tuesday night regarding the new proposed firearms bylaws to take effect this fall.
The city remodelled its "Firearms" discharge maps for most of the region. This was to be expected due to the new development in the city, and binbrook areas.
However, the bombshell dropped by the city at the meeting is that this will include all "weapons" including guns, bows, crossbows, air guns. With these new maps and this new bylaw, its goin to eliminate huge sections of rural stoney creek/winona mountain, binbrook, mount hope that currently is "Bow Only" hunting and some areas for shotgun hunting.
This is still not official and they took alot of our input at the meeting regarding "firearms" not to include bows , however if this passes through its taking away huge areas for bow hunters.
There was alot of B.S that these city officials didnt understand ... and we had a few hunters arguing the case which wasnt enough, and of course the couple "know it all" Anti's there just saying stupid to cause proplems...
this will be a huge loss for archery hunters in the area so hopefully anyone living here or hunting here could look into attending another meeting, i believe there is 2 more meeting to show these changes and get input before it goes to city council to be voted on.
If this makes it to city vote as the way it was presented tuesday, it will pass and we are all out of luck.

Also mentioned, Grimsby is next in line to eliminate hunting 100% within its town limits. Great chance for hunters in the area to get together and save what little area we have here.

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I can understand people not wanting buck shot bouncing off there houses. Urban sprawl is our enemy. There is not much we can do about the population increase. I do however have a problem with 'Bows, Crossbows" being considered firearms IF you are hunting with them. If you don't need a firearms license to buy them from Canadian tire, TSC, Bass Pro then they are not considered "Firearms" as the regs state. I will attend the Ancaster meeting at 300 Wilson Street. To see if there is any other funny business.

straight up Camo! It seems to be in fashion these days so our numbers will double. hahahaha

Lads,

Please consider dressing in an appropriate manner. We need to look as respectable and professional as possible. Collared shirts if you got em. Our greatest enemy in this meeting will be battling the "Elmer Fudd" image that many people have.

Keep in mind this spot will has limited parking. If you can, try to come with a buddy (or buddies) so there can be spots for everyone. This is right downtown Ancaster so keep that in mind for vehicle size too (if you have an option).

See everyone there,

Dyth

Hello folks.

Just had another conversation with the Supervisor of Law Enforcement, and he has asked me to share the following : [COLOR=#000000][COLOR=#1F497D]Tonight’s meeting message willbe simply that MLE has been directed to review the Firearms Discharge Bylaw andMLE will work/consult with all stakeholders including public, associations inconnection with firearms, other regulatory bodies such as MNR, etc. Nothingwill move forward or be amended until proper consultation takes place in anorganized process.

[COLOR=#000000]It sounds as though tonight's meeting is more of an information meeting, rather than an open mic. Regardless, we would greatly appreciate any information that comes from tonight's meeting. At the end of the day, we are still dealing with potential amendments to the discharge of firearms bylaw, which generally relates to loss of opportunity.

Please keep us (OFAH) posted.

Thanks all, we greatly appreciate everyone's assistance.

Yours in Conservation,
Brian McRae

Despite it being an information meeting, I think we still need to project a "professional" image.

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

Despite it being an information meeting, I think we still need to project a "professional" image.

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There is nothing wrong with showing your camo colours in most situations but I agree that this is not one of them.
Good luck tonight guys

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Originally Posted by huntnmachine

There is nothing wrong with showing your camo colours in most situations but I agree that this is not one of them.
Good luck guys tonight guys

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True, there isn't anything wrong with showing your camo or pumpkin army colours in most situations. I wished we lived in a world where Elmer Fudd never existed so showing your camo/hunting clothes wouldn't be an issue (however, I will say I was in Nashville last year and there was camo as far as the eye could see and it was spectacular) but the situation we find ourselves in down here in Hamilton is one where we need to act towards the non hunting public much like you acted towards your girlfriend's father upon meeting him for the first time. It is a shame it needs to be like this though.

Dyth

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

Lads,

Please consider dressing in an appropriate manner. We need to look as respectable and professional as possible. Collared shirts if you got em. Our greatest enemy in this meeting will be battling the "Elmer Fudd" image that many people have.

Keep in mind this spot will has limited parking. If you can, try to come with a buddy (or buddies) so there can be spots for everyone. This is right downtown Ancaster so keep that in mind for vehicle size too (if you have an option).

See everyone there,

Dyth

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Just left the meeting and have to say that at times I was a little embarrased to be part of this "fraternity". Things to consider for the meeting in May at council chambers

- Like Dyth said above, leave the camo and kenora dinner jackets at home. We do not need to project the redneck image that many associate with hunting and firearms.
- Keep it civil. Shouting out of turn will not endear you to anyone on councel.Think how the woman from the Trap Shooting Associations conducted herself. She was well spoken, polite and stood patiently with her hand raised waiting to be called on. She had the attention of the counsellors.
- The proposed changes are to discharge zones in areas where urban sprawl has grown. Councellors Pasuta and Ferguson have both stated tonight that they are not in favour of any changes to the discharge zones in their wards because there has been no growth in their wards that has encroached on the existing discharge zones. I believe them. Have met them both and they are stand up guys and in my opinion are the only two on city council that have any common sense. Drop them an email and let them know you appreciate their support.
Look forward to the May meeting.

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Originally Posted by M_P

Just left the meeting and have to say that at times I was a little embarrased to be part of this "fraternity". Things to consider for the meeting in May at council chambers

- Like Dyth said above, leave the camo and kenora dinner jackets at home. We do not need to project the redneck image that many associate with hunting and firearms.
- Keep it civil. Shouting out of turn will not endear you to anyone on councel.Think how the woman from the Trap Shooting Associations conducted herself. She was well spoken, polite and stood patiently with her hand raised waiting to be called on. She had the attention of the counsellors.
- The proposed changes are to discharge zones in areas where urban sprawl has grown. Councellors Pasuta and Ferguson have both stated tonight that they are not in favour of any changes to the discharge zones in their wards because there has been no growth in their wards that has encroached on the existing discharge zones. I believe them. Have met them both and they are stand up guys and in my opinion are the only two on city council that have any common sense. Drop them an email and let them know you appreciate their support.
Look forward to the May meeting.

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Once there and have to agree but nice to see the turn out.

I heard it was packed? The next and final meeting is next month from what I hear ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by M_P

Just left the meeting and have to say that at times I was a little embarrased to be part of this "fraternity". Things to consider for the meeting in May at council chambers

- Like Dyth said above, leave the camo and kenora dinner jackets at home. We do not need to project the redneck image that many associate with hunting and firearms.
- Keep it civil. Shouting out of turn will not endear you to anyone on councel.Think how the woman from the Trap Shooting Associations conducted herself. She was well spoken, polite and stood patiently with her hand raised waiting to be called on. She had the attention of the counsellors.
- The proposed changes are to discharge zones in areas where urban sprawl has grown. Councellors Pasuta and Ferguson have both stated tonight that they are not in favour of any changes to the discharge zones in their wards because there has been no growth in their wards that has encroached on the existing discharge zones. I believe them. Have met them both and they are stand up guys and in my opinion are the only two on city council that have any common sense. Drop them an email and let them know you appreciate their support.
Look forward to the May meeting.

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M_P,

I was at the meeting as well. I agree with your first two points. There was a lot of interruptions and shouting down of both the councilors and the bylaw officer which was at minimum rude. Trying to get your point across in this manner is counter-productive as people have a tendency to tune out what you are saying.

One thing which really concerns me is the ambiguity of this meeting. I was speaking to a few people who attended the Binbrook meeting. They said they were told which incident sparked this and they were allowed an open discourse with the city. They said the councilor who attended was well informed about this (Pasuta and Ferguson claimed they found out about this meeting that day which I find hard to believe as I had found out about it two weeks ago). It was also stated this meeting was piggy backed on Ferguson's other meeting so who booked the room first the bylaw officer for the information meeting or Councilor Ferguson and if it was the city (as indicated to me two weeks ago both in an email format from the city and this thread), why did we have to clear to room so quickly (the information meeting lasted an hour or so) so Ferguson could have his meeting?

I have to say the bylaw officer was not really well spoken. He fumbled through his presentation and I can attribute that to not speaking well in public but fumbling through talking points and mixing up who he has spoken to (there is no MNR anymore or the Ontario Federal Hunting Association) speaks of being unprepared. Coupled with the fact he admitted neither he nor anyone else from city staff had gone out to the areas they are proposing change is nothing short of irresponsible.

Lastly, the change from firearm and bow discharge distinction to weapon discharge. Total ambiguity. Right now the bylaw has a bow only in an area in Stoney Creek with rough boundaries of Ridge Road, First Road East, Regional Road #20/Rymal Road & East Town Line Road. Under the proposed changes from firearm and bow discharge to weapon discharge, that entire area disappears for bow hunters/archery practicitioners. Actually anything which can be deemed a weapon (a weapon is any device used with intent to inflict damage or harm to living beings, structures, or systems) so a paintball marker or air rifle would be classed under this distinction.

I have much apprehension about these changes as the City of Hamilton has not been a friend to hunters in the past. The City has been approached twice about sunday gun hunting and refused, the mayor has publically stated he wants to ban guns in Hamilton and has stated he can't think of any reason anyone in the city would need a gun, we have areas in "city" (Flamborough) which allows gun hunting but not target shooting and believe it or not, a police over-reaction to a man with a paintball gun at the Limeridge Mall, the city has tried to do similar things in the past (I was talking to 3blackdogs at the meeting and about 10 years ago they tried to do something similar and "told" the public about the meetings by putting a very small notice in a local newspaper with very limited readership) and from what I have been told they had enacted a hunting ban about 20 years ago and had to about face because of the massive backlash from hunters. History has shown the city doesn't treat hunters/shooters well and I think a lot of people are tired of it.

Dyth

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

M_P,

I was at the meeting as well. I agree with your first two points. There was a lot of interruptions and shouting down of both the councilors and the bylaw officer which was at minimum rude. Trying to get your point across in this manner is counter-productive as people have a tendency to tune out what you are saying.

One thing which really concerns me is the ambiguity of this meeting. I was speaking to a few people who attended the Binbrook meeting. They said they were told which incident sparked this and they were allowed an open discourse with the city. They said the councilor who attended was well informed about this (Pasuta and Ferguson claimed they found out about this meeting that day which I find hard to believe as I had found out about it two weeks ago). It was also stated this meeting was piggy backed on Ferguson's other meeting so who booked the room first the bylaw officer for the information meeting or Councilor Ferguson and if it was the city (as indicated to me two weeks ago both in an email format from the city and this thread), why did we have to clear to room so quickly (the information meeting lasted an hour or so) so Ferguson could have his meeting?

I have to say the bylaw officer was not really well spoken. He fumbled through his presentation and I can attribute that to not speaking well in public but fumbling through talking points and mixing up who he has spoken to (there is no MNR anymore or the Ontario Federal Hunting Association) speaks of being unprepared. Coupled with the fact he admitted neither he nor anyone else from city staff had gone out to the areas they are proposing change is nothing short of irresponsible.

Lastly, the change from firearm and bow discharge distinction to weapon discharge. Total ambiguity. Right now the bylaw has a bow only in an area in Stoney Creek with rough boundaries of Ridge Road, First Road East, Regional Road #20/Rymal Road & East Town Line Road. Under the proposed changes from firearm and bow discharge to weapon discharge, that entire area disappears for bow hunters/archery practicitioners. Actually anything which can be deemed a weapon (a weapon is any device used with intent to inflict damage or harm to living beings, structures, or systems) so a paintball marker or air rifle would be classed under this distinction.

I have much apprehension about these changes as the City of Hamilton has not been a friend to hunters in the past. The City has been approached twice about sunday gun hunting and refused, the mayor has publically stated he wants to ban guns in Hamilton and has stated he can't think of any reason anyone in the city would need a gun, we have areas in "city" (Flamborough) which allows gun hunting but not target shooting and believe it or not, a police over-reaction to a man with a paintball gun at the Limeridge Mall, the city has tried to do similar things in the past (I was talking to 3blackdogs at the meeting and about 10 years ago they tried to do something similar and "told" the public about the meetings by putting a very small notice in a local newspaper with very limited readership) and from what I have been told they had enacted a hunting ban about 20 years ago and had to about face because of the massive backlash from hunters. History has shown the city doesn't treat hunters/shooters well and I think a lot of people are tired of it.

Dyth

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well put!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

M_P,

I was at the meeting as well. I agree with your first two points. There was a lot of interruptions and shouting down of both the councilors and the bylaw officer which was at minimum rude. Trying to get your point across in this manner is counter-productive as people have a tendency to tune out what you are saying.

One thing which really concerns me is the ambiguity of this meeting. I was speaking to a few people who attended the Binbrook meeting. They said they were told which incident sparked this and they were allowed an open discourse with the city. They said the councilor who attended was well informed about this (Pasuta and Ferguson claimed they found out about this meeting that day which I find hard to believe as I had found out about it two weeks ago). It was also stated this meeting was piggy backed on Ferguson's other meeting so who booked the room first the bylaw officer for the information meeting or Councilor Ferguson and if it was the city (as indicated to me two weeks ago both in an email format from the city and this thread), why did we have to clear to room so quickly (the information meeting lasted an hour or so) so Ferguson could have his meeting?

I have to say the bylaw officer was not really well spoken. He fumbled through his presentation and I can attribute that to not speaking well in public but fumbling through talking points and mixing up who he has spoken to (there is no MNR anymore or the Ontario Federal Hunting Association) speaks of being unprepared. Coupled with the fact he admitted neither he nor anyone else from city staff had gone out to the areas they are proposing change is nothing short of irresponsible.

Lastly, the change from firearm and bow discharge distinction to weapon discharge. Total ambiguity. Right now the bylaw has a bow only in an area in Stoney Creek with rough boundaries of Ridge Road, First Road East, Regional Road #20/Rymal Road & East Town Line Road. Under the proposed changes from firearm and bow discharge to weapon discharge, that entire area disappears for bow hunters/archery practicitioners. Actually anything which can be deemed a weapon (a weapon is any device used with intent to inflict damage or harm to living beings, structures, or systems) so a paintball marker or air rifle would be classed under this distinction.

I have much apprehension about these changes as the City of Hamilton has not been a friend to hunters in the past. The City has been approached twice about sunday gun hunting and refused, the mayor has publically stated he wants to ban guns in Hamilton and has stated he can't think of any reason anyone in the city would need a gun, we have areas in "city" (Flamborough) which allows gun hunting but not target shooting and believe it or not, a police over-reaction to a man with a paintball gun at the Limeridge Mall, the city has tried to do similar things in the past (I was talking to 3blackdogs at the meeting and about 10 years ago they tried to do something similar and "told" the public about the meetings by putting a very small notice in a local newspaper with very limited readership) and from what I have been told they had enacted a hunting ban about 20 years ago and had to about face because of the massive backlash from hunters. History has shown the city doesn't treat hunters/shooters well and I think a lot of people are tired of it.

Dyth

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Excellent post. I have to agree 100 percent about these comments. The concept on weapons made no sense. I will attending the meeting in May and also believe that bow hunters are getting screwed by these changes.

Not just bowhunters. The Tamahawk club , and HAHA would be finished as well.

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

Not just bowhunters. The Tamahawk club , and HAHA would be finished as well.

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Did not know that. Wow.

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

Not just bowhunters. The Tamahawk club , and HAHA would be finished as well.

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Hunter John,

This is untrue. In the bylaw, under the exemptions part (Part 5), there is a stipulation for gun ranges (Section 1c), which states:

(1) Subsections 3.(1) and 3.(2) [which are the first two general prohibitions for discharging a firearm in the city] of this by-law do not apply to:

(c) a federally regulated and licensed rifle range, gun shop, firearms dealer or gun club, the use and location of which is lawful with applicable zoning and building requirements and any other applicable federal, provincial and municipal laws

This is why the Hamilton Gun Club can operate within the bows only zone of the current by-law.

Dyth

I may be mistaken Dyth but I thought that's why the lady from the trap and shooting association was present , Otherwise why would she be there ?

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

I may be mistaken Dyth but I thought that's why the lady from the trap and shooting association was present , Otherwise why would she be there ?

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I can't really be sure but I would suspect the same as we all were, to get information.

Here is the current by-law as it stands:http://www2.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres...AB/0/05114.pdf

It covers everything about discharging firearms and bows. In it there are stipulations about discharging firearms within 100m of a dwelling, etc. This should cover the urban sprawl issue. Unless they plan to change the by-law more than what they presented last night, there is zero reason for this change (especially the change from firearms and bows to weapons). Now when the house density gets too much to cover the stipulation for the 100m from a dwelling (ie a subdivision), then yea change the outline of the discharge areas on the maps.

Dyth

Could be Dyth but in talking to my neighbors brother in law last night whom is a long time member of Tamahawk many of them believe this is the beginning of the end for them . Time will tell I guess.

Hunter John,

Please don't take my comments as I like what is happening. My BS radar was pinging constantly last night and the fact none of this is on the city's website raises my hackles. For years, the city hasn't been our friend and the comments from the mayor last year about the downtown shooting only strengthens that outlook towards us despite what the two councilors said last night. We have a city council who is looking out for urban Hamilton despite the city limits encompassing nearly 50% rural or rural type landscape. Why did this particular incident touch off a change to the discharge by-laws which have been working for 11 years? I think that question is very important but was glossed over by all three men. Couple that with the fact there were two uniformed police officers present means that whomever was in charge of this meeting wanted someone there to restore order, if necessary, to the meeting despite the previous meeting's orderly conduct. I think there are a lot of changes to this by-law which isn't being discussed and it will come as a surprise to all of us as it wasn't in the information meetings. I truly hope I am wrong here but I don't have faith otherwise.

Dyth

it was presented in binbrook that clubs and ranges, and I asked about hamilton gun club, would be exempt from the changes.
Not 100% sure on this but thats what came up in binbrook

x4 time to renew my membership

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

Hunter John,

Please don't take my comments as I like what is happening. My BS radar was pinging constantly last night and the fact none of this is on the city's website raises my hackles. For years, the city hasn't been our friend and the comments from the mayor last year about the downtown shooting only strengthens that outlook towards us despite what the two councilors said last night. We have a city council who is looking out for urban Hamilton despite the city limits encompassing nearly 50% rural or rural type landscape. Why did this particular incident touch off a change to the discharge by-laws which have been working for 11 years? I think that question is very important but was glossed over by all three men. Couple that with the fact there were two uniformed police officers present means that whomever was in charge of this meeting wanted someone there to restore order, if necessary, to the meeting despite the previous meeting's orderly conduct. I think there are a lot of changes to this by-law which isn't being discussed and it will come as a surprise to all of us as it wasn't in the information meetings. I truly hope I am wrong here but I don't have faith otherwise.

Dyth

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Not at all Dyth , I know what you mean ,especially about the BS meter running hot.

Anyone see this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ysy3Z_uJcjA

This is really great information and a great example of hunters, OFAH and the community working together to get clarity and preserve our great tradition.

Good job folks! Keep applying the pressure!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Sean

This is really great information and a great example of hunters, OFAH and the community working together to get clarity and preserve our great tradition.

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I agree. I was there and will attend the may session. Great job on those who were there.

Good job,folks. There's nothing like public pressure on a politician to blunt any anti BS. All they understand is votes flying out the window. Keep putting their feet in the fire to make 'em dance. :thumbup:

If we had that kind of engagement in the city for Sunday gun hunting we'd have that as well. Since hundreds of us are planning on attending that meeting in may maybe we should try and push to have the fact that bow hunters can hunt deer on a sunday in Hamilton but waterfowl hunters can't hunt geese and ducks

I was told this is for all of the Hamilton area including Sheffield,Rockton And Lynden are as well. Please tell me this is not true!!!??

missy it will be a city of hamilton bylaw so any township under that would be included i assume.

Apparently the time has changed 17APR2016 930am at City hall. Apparently they don't want people to show.

Sneaky bastids.

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Originally Posted by Nismo

Apparently the time has changed 17APR2016 930am at City hall. Apparently they don't want people to show.

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Nismo,

The meeting is on May 17th (it is in the paper and I just got an email about it from the OFAH). We were told May 18th at the Ancaster meeting. April 17th was this past Sunday. Council doesn't usually meet on Sundays.

Dyth

It's what I was reading on a local board, no one could provide me with hard details so that's why I said apparently.

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Nismo

It's what I was reading on a local board, no one could provide me with hard details so that's why I said apparently.

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk

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Fair enough. I wasn't attacking. I was simply letting you know.

Dyth

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

Fair enough. I wasn't attacking. I was simply letting you know.

Dyth

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I know you weren't I posted in hopes that someone local to that area might be able to add some validity to it, I could definitely see them doing something like that.

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk

So, anybody attend the meeting today? If so, any updates to share??

RB

Is there a meeting??.

I had heard that there is another possible meeting this week regarding this. Does anyone know if its true?

They've been sitting on this since last summer. Something has to happen fairly soon. Keep us posted.

https://d3fpllf1m7bbt3.cloudfront.ne...on-map2017.pdf

https://www.hamilton.ca/government-i...-consultations







Public Consultation - Firearms Discharge By-law Update
The City of Hamilton is conducting a comprehensive review of the Discharge of Firearms By-Law. Attend an upcoming public meeting to provide your comments to City staff on the proposed by-law changes.
Why is the City reviewing the by-law?

• To update the map(s) where the discharge of firearms is prohibited to incorporate recent and future urban development for consultation with the affected land owners and stakeholders. Review the Proposed Boundary Expansion Map (PDF, 1 MB)
• To provide clear interpretation and understanding of the by-law’s provisions; reinforce federal/provincial firearm regulations; maintain public safety; and acknowledge/recognize the different aspects of bows vs common firearms to balance the varied needs of the community.

Ward 11
Date: February 13, 2017
Time: 6 to 8:30 pm. Presentation begins at 6:30 pm
Location: Glanbrook Municipal Service Centre, 4280 Binbrook Road


Questions? Contact [email protected] or 905-546-2424 ext. 4721




Ward 14 & 15
Date: February 14, 2017
Time: 7 to 9 pm. Presentation begins at 7:30 pm
Location: Rockton Fairgrounds, 812 Old Highway 8

Sent an email to Mr Ustrzycki, will post it and the reply.

Glad to see the OFAH is involved as well.

https://www.ofah.org/firearms/city-o...scharge-bylaw/

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

Glad to see the OFAH is involved as well.

https://www.ofah.org/firearms/city-o...scharge-bylaw/

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X2....awesome that the OFAH is advocating for hunters. Good thing we have them!

X 3

I am also thankful that Mr.McRae, OFAH and probably some others that I am unaware of have had a voice in these discussions. These are the folks who know the system, can share their knowledge with those who may have some misconceptions about hunting, firearms and archery.

thanks, one shot scott, dyth, for keeping everyone updated.

So this was my email to Mr Ustrzycki:

Good morning Mr Ustrzycki,
My name is XXXXXXXX and I am a Hamilton resident. I would like to ask you a few questions about the upcoming public consultation about the firearms discharge by-law update. I see there are a couple of dates for the consultations. I was wondering if we will be able to address whomever will be speaking about the changes to the by-law. I was at one of last year's public consultation on April 4th, 2016. Hamilton city councilor Lloyd Ferguson got very upset and accused the group of co-opting "his meeting" when the meeting was presented as a public consultation (he claimed he had rented out the space at the Ancaster Library for a weekly meeting so you can see where there is some confusion). Will we be facing a similar situation of confusion and potential hostility towards the public at this meeting?

Furthermore, based on last year's meeting turnout, the room that was used last year (the Murray Feruson Room) was much too small for everyone in attendance. Has the city taken into account the amount of individuals which may be present?

Last year, the city was suggesting to change the by-law (an area of Stoney Creek that would disallow weapon discharge for example) despite the press release saying otherwise ([COLOR=#007dbc]https:[COLOR=#007dbc]//www.[COLOR=#007dbc]hamilton.[COLOR=#007dbc]ca/government-information/news[COLOR=#007dbc]-centre/news-releases/boundary[COLOR=#007dbc]-review-firearm-discharge-by-l[COLOR=#007dbc]aw-coming-in), based on the history of what was presented in the meeting and what was issued to the press, are there changes to the by-law which the public needs to know about so we can comment on it?

Thank you for your time,

XXXXXXXXXXX

Here is the reply:

You've posted a number of questions in your e-mail below. Is there a phone number where I can reach you?

Robert Ustrzycki
Senior Project Manager
Municipal Law Enforcement
Parking and By-Law Services
Planning and Economic Development
x4721

Sent my cell number to him. I received a response stating he will be out of his office until this afternoon. I am looking forward to speaking with him. I will post what he says about my questions.

Dyth

Thanks Dyth.

One question that comes to mind immediately is the green sections. Conservations lands by permit only. Does this mean they will start issuing permits? What about Beverly Swamp, etc that has never required a permit?

Does anyone actually know the results of the meeting?
Was anything finalized?

I spoke with Mr Ustrzycki last week for about 30 minutes. So far they have had 2 meetings and the 3rd one is scheduled for March 1. Nothing is going to be done in the immediate future. The city wants to update the discahrge maps to reflect how the landscape of Hamilton is changing. They want to get everyone's feedback and answer questions before they go ahead with the next part which is fine tuning their changes. As the city sees it the main problem is there are a few areas which have grown up over the years which are not a part of any of the little side maps which are in the old by-law which the city wants to designate on the new map (which should be covered under the 100m discharge rule in the existing by-law). He acknowledged the problem last year was there was a lot of ambiguity in the discussion both with terms and the fact the changes to the map were not clear (I raised the point that as a group hunters/firearm users are acutely sensitive to ambiguity because that usually means we are going to get a lot of things taken away). The next step for the city is to take all of the feedback and refine the changes. I believe one of the things we discussed is the fact the non-discharge area south of Golf Club Road runs right through a farmer's field. That he said will have to be adjusted when they go back and go through the feedback.

He also mentioned that the meetings are designed for constructive input and wishes groups would send representatives to discuss matters (for example, rather than 8 guys come down to a meeting, send one who can voice the group's concerns and bring back the feedback to the group rather than all 8 guys come down and crowd the room); now I didn't get that he was actively saying don't come but he wants to make sure that there is enough room and time for as much feedback as possible.

We also spoke of the 100m rule in the by-law and how the city was thinking about tweeking that based on the increased number of bowhunters but I believe he said the city decided to leave it alone for now. However, it may be revised at a later date as the city understands there is a difference between the ranges of bows and firearms (we didn't get into the fact that shot which is discharged from a shotgun has a much shorter range than a slug out of a shotgun or a bullet from a rifle).

I think we all understand that the ability to discharge our firearms within the "city limits" of Hamilton is changing (whether we like it or not). While I disagree with some of the changes and plan to go to the last meeting to voice some recent concerns I have with the changes, I can't fight the fact urban Hamilton is growing. I think the new "firearm prohibited, bows only" area of Stoney Creek should be modified slightly to allow the shooting of shotguns because there are still a lot of fields out there which can be hunted for geese (I won't say anything about the fact that you can also hunt deer with shotguns :tongue:) so at least maybe we can still use some times of firearms rather than a complete ban of them.

Dyth

Sorry to revive an older thread, but it contains pertinent info making it easier to get up to speed.

So, I emailed the city requesting info on lawful hunting and discharge by-law, and among the responses, I have an email from Mr Robert Ustrzycki with the following:

Please review the current Discharge Firearm By-law on the City’s Website, in particular, the general provisions for specific contraventions (example: not within 100m of a building or structure).

A new draft By-law is being presented to the Planning Committee on May 14. You may wish to track its passing by Council for the fall hunting season. I do not anticipate it will impact upon the 2019 spring Turkey season.

I believe our favorite hunting rights defending association should be involved, as well as some of our more seasoned hunting citizens attending those city hall meetings.

Any recommendations on whom from OHAF should be made aware?

Thanks
Mike

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mikedinoro

Sorry to revive an older thread, but it contains pertinent info making it easier to get up to speed.

So, I emailed the city requesting info on lawful hunting and discharge by-law, and among the responses, I have an email from Mr Robert Ustrzycki with the following:

Please review the current Discharge Firearm By-law on the City’s Website, in particular, the general provisions for specific contraventions (example: not within 100m of a building or structure).

A new draft By-law is being presented to the Planning Committee on May 14. You may wish to track its passing by Council for the fall hunting season. I do not anticipate it will impact upon the 2019 spring Turkey season.

I believe our favorite hunting rights defending association should be involved, as well as some of our more seasoned hunting citizens attending those city hall meetings.

Any recommendations on whom from OHAF should be made aware?

Thanks
Mike

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Send that info to [email protected] I'm pretty sure that's the correct e-mail address (from memory).. You may need to go to their site.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Send that info to [email protected] I'm pretty sure that's the correct e-mail address (from memory).. You may need to go to their site.

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Thank you.
His email is: [email protected]
The OFAH main contacts should be a sticky (@admin)
Mike

Ottawa added BB guns, air rifle, slingshots, bows and crossbow wording to discharge bylaws several years ago, but we still have areas to hunt. It seems many municipal and cities are doing the same, under discharge by-laws.

They cannot see me in my garage or backyard. ;)

If they can ever me see me than we have much much bigger problems with cameras

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Originally Posted by line052

Ottawa added BB guns, air rifle, slingshots, bows and crossbow wording to discharge bylaws several years ago, but we still have areas to hunt. It seems many municipal and cities are doing the same, under discharge by-laws.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

They cannot see me in my garage or backyard. ;)

If they can ever me see me than we have much much bigger problems with cameras

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This is my thinking too.

I just checked with all the immediate neighbors, and none had a problem with a little archery practice with my son, or plinking some cans with his Daisy.

...of course, once in a while they join in....

Here to revive this thread with an interactive link (https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings...a&lang=English) which everyone can use to see the proposed changes to the bi-law, the updated maps, the old bi-law, etc.

Anyone attend the meeting yesterday? Did council pass the bylaw or was it sent back to committee? I think OFAH was part of the working group.....

RB