A divided nation

Trump had a rally scheduled in Chicago last night but a large group of protesters got into the arena and thousands were outside so to avoid any one getting hurt he cancelled the rally - when someone can't speak things are getting pretty bad - the arena is located on the campus of the University of Chicago so a lot of the protesters were young punks - I think we should bring back the draft and put these punks into the service and make men and women out of them - most of these kids never worked, never did anything worth while and are taught by ultra liberal professors to act this way - boy I'll tell you something - this election is going to be one to remember - things won't be too quiet on the southern front this coming summer and fall - wait and see

Well I guess even those young punks have a right to protest....
Too bad Donald didn't get a chance to speak, always worth listening too.

Edit: meaning always entertaining to hear what he has to say...

But what if those punks were there to protest against an ignorant narcissistic whose xenophobic demagoguery will destroy the USA if he gains power?

https://youtu.be/5lXZHA0DHmQ

Funny but ever thing they say they are running away from, seems to already be here..:confused:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FgAWCLeZ64

The punks protesting is what make America great. Freedom and democracy and the right to voice your opinion and speak no matter what side of the issues your on.

Way to go punks, yell, scream, be heard.

This stuff going on is paralleling Europe of the 1920-30s way too closely, it is time to stand up and be heard all over the world, this idiot needs to be recognized for what he is and what he is trying to do.

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Originally Posted by Fox

Way to go punks, yell, scream, be heard.

This stuff going on is paralleling Europe of the 1920-30s way too closely, it is time to stand up and be heard all over the world, this idiot needs to be recognized for what he is and what he is trying to do.

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If you are talking about Trump.... He just might be the wakeup call governments need.

On the other hand if he can't handle a bunch of hippies in Chicago how can he handle ISIS

Wait a minute - there is nothing wrong with protesting but when you go into a rally where there are others who want the speaker to be heard and make so much noise that it is impossible to hear the speaker you have gone too far - you have a right up to the point of stopping someone else's right - what about the right of Trump to speak and be heard - these are punks not mature people who know nothing what life is all about - just a bunch of young kids who are still wet behind their ears

I'll tell you what is going to happen - there will be some Trump supporters who will attend a rally armed and when the protesters get inside the arena and try to disrupt the proceedings and a fight starts someone is going to get shot -

It was a big mistake to let 18 year olds vote - what the heck do they know about life - if you are in your 40s or older I'm sure you can look bad at your youth and see the stupid things you did or what you thought about certain issues and realize now how wrong you were -

And as far as people moving to Canada if Trump wins - I say good by - don't let the door hit you in the a-- on your way out - the more liberals that go the better - maybe if enough liberals go up there things will be better down here - I bet there are a lot of people who were on the fence when thinking of voting for Trump but now are going to vote for him - seeing the people who are against him -

If at 18 you can be sent to die for your country, you sure should be able to vote for its policy's. Think about what you are saying JP..... some armed supporters of trump are going to shoot protesters for disrupting a rally, how crazy American is that.

I am looking for more info on this but it seems George Sorros organized and perhaps paid the black lives matter movement to disrupt the rally. The establishment on both sides , Dem, republican is so afraid of Trump because he is an outsider not beholden to the corporations , lobbyists , the old boys club that they ( both sides) will do anything to make sure he doesnt get the nomination.

I wouldnt be surprised Trump ends up at the bottom of the Hudson river so the elites ( both sides) can keep the same corrupt status quo running America. I hope I am wrong but if they overturn the will of the people you better be prepared for chaos on a level never seen before.
Anyone comparing Trump to Hitler ????? Well you lost all credibility as soon as you go all Nazi in your arguments.
I asked the question before , instead of crying chicken little and comparing Trump to Hitler you should be asking why is Trump resonating so loudly with so many Americans. ???? Thats the real question that needs to be answered. Any ideas?? Anyone.
People on both sides are sick of the establishment and thats just a start.

I think it is because lots of Americans want to turn back the clock 100 years or so.

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Originally Posted by cantcatchacold

On the other hand if he can't handle a bunch of hippies in Chicago how can he handle ISIS

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I don't think he's allowed to carpet-bomb the Chicago hippies.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

I think it is because lots of Americans want to turn back the clock 100 years or so.

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No not really.
All they want is jobs and a piece of the "American Dream".

But being a civil servant, you don't seem to have any perspective of how the other half of the country (US or Canada) struggles to get by. You're as out of touch as the American elites who's ignorance of the working class's struggles has led to the rise of Trump.

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

....

I hope I am wrong but if they overturn the will of the people you better be prepared for chaos on a level never seen before.
Anyone comparing Trump to Hitler ????? Well you lost all credibility as soon as you go all Nazi in your arguments.
I asked the question before , instead of crying chicken little and comparing Trump to Hitler you should be asking why is Trump resonating so loudly with so many Americans. ???? Thats the real question that needs to be answered. Any ideas?? Anyone.
People on both sides are sick of the establishment and thats just a start.

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I follow American politics a bit, but this primary is bizarre with an "unelectable" candidate establishing a large lead on each side. Strange.

But the real question I'm trying to find out is if Trump is such a nut-case, why does he have so much support. And the answer is that what he is saying - that there is something wrong with American and it needs to be fixed - seems to be the same perspective that a lot of Americans are seeing things from.

...and it is relevant to Canada, I think... what has happened there is also happening here.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

I think it is because lots of Americans want to turn back the clock 100 years or so.

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Wrong by a 1000%

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

Anyone comparing Trump to Hitler ????? Well you lost all credibility as soon as you go all Nazi in your arguments.

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Lost all credibility? At least some are capable of picking up a dictionary and educating themselves as to the definition of demagogue.

Oxford Dictionary:

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[A political leader who seeks support by appealing to popular desires and prejudices rather than by using rational argument:

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Mirriam Webster Dictionary:

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a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power

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Cambridge Dictionary:

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a ​person, ​especially a ​political ​leader, who ​wins ​support by ​exciting people's ​emotions ​rather than by having good ​ideas

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Trump fits the definition of demagogue perfectly. He is the closest thing to Hitler the west has ever seen in a political leader.

Note: the bolding is not my doing. I can't get rid of the net code.

Good one Oddmott, the truth sometimes hurts .

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

I follow American politics a bit, but rimary is bizarre with an "unelectable" candidate establishing a large lead on each side. Strange.

But the real question I'm trying to find out is if Trump is such a nut-case, why does he have so much support. And the answer is that what he is saying - that there is something wrong with American and it needs to be fixed - seems to be the same perspective that a lot of Americans are seeing things from.

...and it is relevant to Canada, I think... what has happened there is also happening here.

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Correct Werner , absoloutely correct.

People have realized ( on both sides ) that career poltiicians continue to tell the people its raining when in all reality they are being pyssed on. Dem or rep, doesnt matter. America is broken and the people want a fix.
Term limits on all levels of government from municipal up to the senate would be a start toward the fix. That would solve some problems to start ., and dont kid yourselves , Canada will face the same problems within the next 20 years.
All the regular mainstream politicians have been so far removed from their original true beliefs and are so beholden to the corporations , lobbyists and the elites whom control most of the wealth that they are actually irrelevant .
They are not making the decisions anymore, the people that get them elected are making the decisions and the american public is starting to se this and that is contributing to Trumps popularity.
He is an outsider and now both parties are afraid he will disrupt the status quo.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

No not really.
All they want is jobs and a piece of the "American Dream".

But being a civil servant, you don't seem to have any perspective of how the other half of the country (US or Canada) struggles to get by. You're as out of touch as the American elites who's ignorance of the working class's struggles has led to the rise of Trump.

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Then they should vote for Sanders!

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Originally Posted by Oddmott

Lost all credibility? At least some are capable of pickingup a dictionary and educating themselves as to the definition of demagogue.

Oxford Dictionary:


Mirriam Webster Dictionary:


Cambridge Dictionary:


Trump fits the definition of demagogue perfectly. He is the closest thing to Hitler the west has ever seen in a political leader.

Note: the bolding is not my doing. I can't get rid of the net code.

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Lol. You may be correct Mott and I cant disagree with you. Hitler is a stretch BUTthe questin is why is he so popular.???? And for the record I would not vote for the guy but the question remains. Why is he resonating so loudly with so many Americans. Why are the mainstream media / republicans / demcrats all rallying against the guy.???? BECAUSE HE IS AN OUTSIDER AND HE WILL UPSET THE APPLE CART SO MANY HAVE BEEN FEEDING OFF FOR SO LONG.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Good one Oddmott, the truth sometimes hurts .

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No Mcanne , the truth doesnt hurt, its plain for all of us to see, the US is broken and thats why Trump has the support that he does. People are sick and tired of the status quo.

Your last line also explains why harper is no more.

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

Lol. You may be correct Mott and I cant disagree with you. Hitler is a stretch BUTthe questin is why is he so popular.???? And for the record I would not vote for the guy but the question remains. Why is he resonating so loudly with so many Americans. Why are the mainstream media / republicans / demcrats all rallying against the guy.???? BECAUSE HE IS AN OUTSIDER AND HE WILL UPSET THE APPLE CART SO MANY HAVE BEEN FEEDING OFF FOR SO LONG.

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He's resonating with so many Americans because the country has a long-standing (like, since before it's founding) history of latching onto one specific group of people Every. Single. Generation. and blaming them for all the ails of their country.

Sometimes it was race, sometimes it was religion, sometimes it was political ideology... but the one constant is that there is ALWAYS someone that a large portion of the U.S. population can be counted on to rail against and turn on.

That they're being swayed by someone preaching the drivel Trump is, doesn't surprise me in the least. What surprises me are the people who claim to be surprised that the American population is so weak minded, when they've seen this crap time and time and time again.

Trump has flip flopped so much ON EVERY SINGLE ISSUE that even he can't keep straight what his opinions truly are any more.

And i don't believe for a second that he's got no puppeteer strings attached to him. The guy isn't a Bill Gates. He's a very small fish in the world of big business. He's owned by somebody somewhere.

Well Mott , now we are getting somewhere. Mcanne, not so much.

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

Well Mott , now we are getting somewhere. Mcanne, not so much.

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Why not?

He has a good point. If americans truly want a level headed leader who is "Of the People, For the People", then Sanders is the ONLY choice. And actually, the best choice they've had - in that regard - since.... well during my lifetime.

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Originally Posted by Oddmott

Why not?

He has a good point. If americans truly want a level headed leader who is "Of the People, For the People", then Sanders is the ONLY choice. And actually, the best choice they've had - in that regard - since.... well during my lifetime.

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My point was referring to mcannes Harper comment that has nothing to do with this conversation.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

If at 18 you can be sent to die for your country, you sure should be able to vote for its policy's. Think about what you are saying JP..... some armed supporters of trump are going to shoot protesters for disrupting a rally, how crazy American is that.

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The argument that sending 18 years old to die for the country and that should give them the right to vote doesn't hold water - and I'll tell you why - the services want young gullible and inexperienced men to serve because these they can train and make into what they want - the last thing they want is a bunch of older men who know BS when they see it - and another thing - the majority of service men are not in the 18 to 20 year old range - most are older - then there is the other question - if you let people who have very little experience vote what do you think you will get - some politician who will promise them everything free with little if any thought how the bill is going to be paid - that's why so many college students are for Sanders - free college - free everything - it's much easier to BS some young kid than it is a older wiser person - half of the youth today have very little if any knowledge of history -

Someone at a rally may get shot only if the person attacks someone else - it's called self defense - its the protesters that are acting more like the Nazis - they won't let someone who doesn't share their view speak - I hope Trump wins this election - I was for Cruz but now that I saw what the protester represent I'm for Trump -

One other thing - these punks that are protesting are the last people who will ever serve this country - they would go to Canada before serving - and if there was ever a need to institute the draft they would riot - so if you are dead set on letting 18 year olds vote then make it only those that put time in the service - not these young mindless punks - I often hear politicians say that we are going to leave the next generation with a big debt because of the way we are spending - in a way I think that is good - it will force them to start working and face life as the way it really is - not a party

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Then they should vote for Sanders!

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Ummm - no. Sanders has made expensive promises that have to be paid for by the working man.

Sanders is more the champion of the welfare state.
What the people are looking for is someone to champion the working man.
And I don't mean the union or public service working man, I mean the working man that has to look after himself.

Billionaires Secretly Meeting.....Why?

To find a way to keep Trump out, because they want to keep their money making businesses (overseas) just the way they are... and having Trump as a leader will cost them money....

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/...-to-stop-trump

Sanders is a foolish socialist with and idea of one. He wants to trade economic growth for wholesale redistribution of wealth to an exact equality by breaking up banks, getting rid of 23 kinds of deodorant, etc.

Actually considering the 1st sentence, one really doesn't need to even read the second.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

Ummm - no. Sanders has made expensive promises that have to be paid for by the working man.

Sanders is more the champion of the welfare state.
What the people are looking for is someone to champion the working man.
And I don't mean the union or public service working man, I mean the working man that has to look after himself.

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I like how some ppl still cling to the foolish notion that somehow we're not more socialist than capitalist already.

We share the cost of pretty much everything, yet someone who openly addresses the socialist nature of our society is to be vilified? Weird.

There are very few men looking after themselves. And even fewer actually want to. It's not just the unionized or public servants that are looking for others to look after them, everyone who holds a job working for someone else, is looking for a caretaker. They're too afraid to take the risks to forge out on their own.

And there's nothing wrong with that. It's human nature. And when you have a group of people you care about... like, say... a nation... it's also human nature to want to help those around you, and hope they're there to help you if/when you need it also.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

I don't think he's allowed to carpet-bomb the Chicago hippies.

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Sure you can, grateful dead and Neil Young are touring again they could do some songs about it after

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Originally Posted by Fox

Way to go punks, yell, scream, be heard.

This stuff going on is paralleling Europe of the 1920-30s way too closely, it is time to stand up and be heard all over the world, this idiot needs to be recognized for what he is and what he is trying to do.

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X2 ................................

Pretty unbelievable in this week's debate. Trump says the solution is to "eliminate the families of terrorists too". The chairman of the debate said, " That is against the law Mr Trump." Trump says , "Well, we will just have to change the law."

Interesting times for sure. Funny thing though , if Trump is such a racist Nazi why did the only black candidate drop out and put his support behind Trump.??

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Originally Posted by Sharon

X2 ................................

Pretty unbelievable in this week's debate. Trump says the solution is to "eliminate the families of terrorists too". The chairman of the debate said, " That is against the law Mr Trump." Trump says , "Well, we will just have to change the law."

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Not surprised at all. His grandfather started the family business by trafficking women in the Klondike. His father was KKK. What could possibly go wrong with someone raised by people like that?

No doubt that Americans are sick of the establishment and are flocking to the outsider who says what they want to hear....in that sense I'd have to agree with Fox.

they do need an outsider but one who has a head on his shoulders and who will unite people not divide them

i think Cruz has sounded a bit wacky in the past also

I find it odd that everyone is convinced Trump is an outsider. He was born rich; he's been supporting candidates for years - he's likely more on the inside than most presidents. I remember people used to refer to the Koch brothers as sort of political puppet-masters because they could buy candidates; has Trump been this deep on the inside too with his past support? He obviously owned Romney last time around...

The old boys club in the white house has been kicked to the curb. Trump is going g to shake things up.and I am all for it.the bulls in the white house have run into a real road block with trump and the people have had enough of the same old boy running the country the same way for the last 30 years. Time for a very big change. Dutch

I chuckle when JoePA comes on here and says on one hand that there needs to be free speech and that you should not get in trouble for being in the media and being racist and homophobic (Duck Dynasty) but when it comes to the definition of free speech in the US he wants them silenced and remove their voting rights.

This is what scares me, history is destined to repeat itself unless measures are taken to stop it. When the Nazi party setup rallies in areas with heavy communist and or jewish populations then knew what they were doing. Trump goes into a city like Chicago and essentially does the same thing trying to stir up people.

Remember, you speak against him he will sue you and put up charges against you, not quashing the public at all, ha ha.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

I think it is because lots of Americans want to turn back the clock 100 years or so.

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

Wrong by a 1000%

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John he is in fact some what right, but not for the reasons he thinks..

Now there was a lot of bad stuff left over from the last century( 100 years ago would have been 1915 right in the middle of the GREAT WAR ), but things where changing.

100 years ago,....

....if I made a promise to you, I would have been more scared of the shame of broking the Promise then a lawsuit.

...if I was willing to work and did a good job, I could always find work.

...if a person/social group or country attacked injured/kill people, they were dealt with.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Then they should vote for Sanders!

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Sander is a SOCIALIST. If you don't know what that is read a book by a guy named KARL MARX.

100 years ago people looked the other way if you beat women , blacks and animals. The only people with any power were white men.:ashamed: By the way the US did not enter the 1st WW until 1917.

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Sander is a SOCIALIST. If you don't know what that is read a book by a guy named KARL MARX.

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This sums it up http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...78cdbfbdb9.jpg

Turn that sign into a mega- multi-million dollar trust account, ( handed down by your great-great grandparents), or a loaf of bread, and I agree with it.

So what you really saying is that you want someone else to pay for your lifestyle, cottage, etc.?


Socialism is a wonderful idea. It is only as a reality that it has been disastrous. Among people of every race, color, and creed, all around the world, socialism has led to hunger in countries that used to have surplus food to export.... Nevertheless, for many of those who deal primarily in ideas, socialism remains an attractive idea -- in fact, seductive. Its every failure is explained away as due to the inadequacies of particular leaders. ” ― Thomas Sowell

Oil rich Venezuela comes to mind after their affair with socialism.

No.... I want everyone to be able to eat nutritious meals, have a warm place to sleep, and go on to higher education if their brain allows it, not their wallet.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

No.... I want everyone to be able to eat nutritious meals, have a warm place to sleep, and go on to higher education if their brain allows it, not their wallet.

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Who pays for that and how can it possibly be done?
It take 20 years of just school to prepare a professor, not including feeding and clothing him 20 years, along with other necessities. He then gets to college to teach all these students that needed the same care(food, education, etc)

So where does all this financing come from? There are not enough people with the ability to support free everything for everyone by definition.

Socialism has such a dismal rate of failure only an intellectual or liberal would deny it.

Socialism still and always has had an elite ruling class. America will never put a hard left guy in the White House. Hate and distrust of communism is imbedded in the American DNA.
Trump is scaring the hell out of the career political elite. That is s good thing. Dry rot needs to be removed. Is he the best candidate to rule the Superpower USA? Probably not. The American system is far more democratic and the President's powers are not unlimited. Obama didn't accomplish much of anything yet he was thought to be the second coming of God when elected. Truth is his record is failed foreign policy, protectionism and killing Keystone while building even more pipelines within the USA. Look up hypocrisy in the dictionary and don't be surprised to see his face.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

No.... I want everyone to be able to eat nutritious meals, have a warm place to sleep, and go on to higher education if their brain allows it, not their wallet.

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I have 5 acres of field behind my home. My inlaws, prior to ill health, had a huge garden at one time that they worked hard to keep nutritious food on the table for their family (My wife and her siblings). Perhaps I should post a sign at the local Social Services office letting clients know they could come over and plant themselves a good garden (for free) (I pay the land taxes and no strings attatched)? I can't do anything about a warm place for them to sleep, or education for themselves, but they would have an opportunity to provide food for themselves and little or no cost. The catch would be they have to work for it instead of me working for them (my hard earned tax dollars). Do you think I would get any takers Fishermccann?

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Originally Posted by Bushmoose

I have 5 acres of field behind my home. My inlaws, prior to ill health, had a huge garden at one time that they worked hard to keep nutritious food on the table for their family (My wife and her siblings). Perhaps I should post a sign at the local Social Services office letting clients know they could come over and plant themselves a good garden (for free) (I pay the land taxes and no strings attatched)? I can't do anything about a warm place for them to sleep, or education for themselves, but they would have an opportunity to provide food for themselves and little or no cost. The catch would be they have to work for it instead of me working for them (my hard earned tax dollars). Do you think I would get any takers Fishermccann?

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I think we all know the answer to that,including and especially fishermccann. The typical socialist mind set concentrates on having all the slushy welfare programmes as long as someone else is paying for it.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I think we all know the answer to that,including and especially fishermccann. The typical socialist mind set concentrates on having all the slushy welfare programmes as long as someone else is paying for it.

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Exactly. Here in London they are proposing babysitting services at city hall meetings so "more women can get out". Mercy. Have they ever heard of a babysitter.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I think we all know the answer to that,including and especially fishermccann. The typical socialist mind set concentrates on having all the slushy welfare programmes as long as someone else is paying for it.

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Free garden plots might just be the wrong example to make this point. The free Toronto community garden plots have waiting lists. Most of them are very near to subsidized housing neighbourhoods and are mainly used by locals.

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Originally Posted by Bushmoose

I have 5 acres of field behind my home. My inlaws, prior to ill health, had a huge garden at one time that they worked hard to keep nutritious food on the table for their family (My wife and her siblings). Perhaps I should post a sign at the local Social Services office letting clients know they could come over and plant themselves a good garden (for free) (I pay the land taxes and no strings attatched)? I can't do anything about a warm place for them to sleep, or education for themselves, but they would have an opportunity to provide food for themselves and little or no cost. The catch would be they have to work for it instead of me working for them (my hard earned tax dollars). Do you think I would get any takers Fishermccann?

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I know what they would grow....

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

No.... I want everyone to be able to eat nutritious meals, have a warm place to sleep, and go on to higher education if their brain allows it, not their wallet.

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There was a Country that managed to reach your goals back in the 70's. A large number of the population got to attend schools where they got an State provided education for FREE. They where feed and sheltered while at school, given pretty much everything they needed while there. For anyone coming out of the schools there jobs, and the state insured that if there was not enough work in an area that it's citizens could move to an area of the country that needed workers, all paid for by the state. This wonderful Country general provided for and protected it's citizens from cradle to grave. The Country's Government was only able to stay in power for about four years (1975-1979) before the country was invaded and forced to adopt western ways...
You may like to read about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide

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Originally Posted by Bushmoose

I have 5 acres of field behind my home. My inlaws, prior to ill health, had a huge garden at one time that they worked hard to keep nutritious food on the table for their family (My wife and her siblings). Perhaps I should post a sign at the local Social Services office letting clients know they could come over and plant themselves a good garden (for free) (I pay the land taxes and no strings attatched)? I can't do anything about a warm place for them to sleep, or education for themselves, but they would have an opportunity to provide food for themselves and little or no cost. The catch would be they have to work for it instead of me working for them (my hard earned tax dollars). Do you think I would get any takers Fishermccann?

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There are more then a few that would be more then happy to take you up on that offer. Problem is Everyone that would happens to be too busy working their butts off to pay the welfare of the ones that would not. If I lived close enough to you, I would be down looking at tractors before this gets a reply.

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Originally Posted by C.A. in TO

Free garden plots might just be the wrong example to make this point. The free Toronto community garden plots have waiting lists. Most of them are very near to subsidized housing neighbourhoods and are mainly used by locals.

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The people living and working in those neighbourhoods, I would guess are also Immigrants and come from places which have a more agrarian society.

If you don't know what that is here is a link..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrarian_society

Just because someone will say I am insulting them.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

No.... I want everyone to be able to eat nutritious meals, have a warm place to sleep, and go on to higher education if their brain allows it, not their wallet.

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This pic is a spoof, but it pretty well fulfills your ideology.
Attachment 32312

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Originally Posted by Snowwalker

There are more then a few that would be more then happy to take you up on that offer. Problem is Everyone that would happens to be too busy working their butts off to pay the welfare of the ones that would not. If I lived close enough to you, I would be down looking at tractors before this gets a reply.

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Yes, I realize if I was close to a major city that many who are stuck within the concrete jungle would jump at the chance. It would be a pleasure to have folks come and work their own plot. I have a farmer that comes to take the hay off, but he is hit n miss each year. I don't want the land to turn into a brush maze.

There is one local farmer just on the edge of the city. Real nice, popular fellow. He gives up a few acres each year so others can plant a garden. 90% of the people using the land are volunteers. Those volunteers give up their time to raise and pick those fresh vegetables. They don't keep them for themselves they donate them to the needy.......

There are a lot of people willing to help, too bad not as many willing to do their own work.

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Originally Posted by Bushmoose

This pic is a spoof, but it pretty well fulfills your ideology.
Attachment 32312

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Many people who work hard for more than 40 hours a week, cannot afford nutritious meals , a warm place to sleep, or a higher education. Is this right, when so many others have more than they could use in 50 lifetimes? I am not talking about those who refuse to work, but those who do work hard and still do not have a 'life'.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Many people who work hard for more than 40 hours a week, cannot afford nutritious meals , a warm place to sleep, or a higher education. Is this right, when so many others have more than they could use in 50 lifetimes? I am not talking about those who refuse to work, [COLOR=#FF0000][COLOR=#FF0000]but those who do work hard and still do not have a 'life'.

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Those are the ones that have been let down the most by this Country.

How do you figure that? Poor career choices or life style choices aren't the responsibility of a government. Most people who do work hard for the 40 hour work week do have a very satisfactory standard of life.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Many people who work hard for more than 40 hours a week, cannot afford nutritious meals , a warm place to sleep, or a higher education. Is this right, when so many others have more than they could use in 50 lifetimes? I am not talking about those who refuse to work, but those who do work hard and still do not have a 'life'.

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I have no problem helping those who need a leg up. The problem is sorting the wheat from the chaff and preventing the freeloaders from abusing the system. There is no country in the world now or in the past that has gotten this right.

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Originally Posted by sawbill

How do you figure that? Poor career choices or life style choices aren't the responsibility of a government. Most people who do work hard for the 40 hour work week do have a very satisfactory standard of life.

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I think this statement is pretty accurate.

Not at minimum wage , close to any city, they don't.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Not at minimum wage , close to any city, they don't.

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If they have dependants I would agree. If they are a single adult with no dependants than I disagree.

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Originally Posted by sawbill

How do you figure that? Poor career choices or life style choices aren't the responsibility of a government. Most people who do work hard for the 40 hour work week do have a very satisfactory standard of life.

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Originally Posted by Species8472

I think this statement is pretty accurate.

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I think it's a wrong statement.
Not everyone is born with the same chance, or can be a teacher and have a safe job, some manufacturing needs to be done in Canada (15$/hour job) and not everyone can live in the city. In small city/town couple get layoff and that's when things goes down hill.
Now, do I really care? Not really but at least I see it and I'm honest.

And, many people on here live a time where job opportunity was easy, a smart and hard worker will succeed, noiw a day it isn't the same at all. And who's fault is it? The older generation or the younger one? Who let that change happen? Who got played out?

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Many people who work hard for more than 40 hours a week, cannot afford nutritious meals , a warm place to sleep, or a higher education. Is this right, when so many others have more than they could use in 50 lifetimes? I am not talking about those who refuse to work, but those who do work hard and still do not have a 'life'.

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I almost agree with you. The one thing I think we need to stop is penalizing those that have because we envy their situation. There are people who work hard, maybe you can argue are little lucky, and make some good money. We cannot argue helping those in need, by waging war on those that have worked hard and are succesful. It is not their sole responsibility, and they have done no crime to deserve isolating them and making them responsible for everything. I am 100% against penalizing succesful people by over-taxing them. You work your butt off to make money, and then someone can come and take it all away? Not a very good recipe for success. Everyone will just say, screw it, and not put in the effort. Then what does society become?

I do though support helping those who have worked hard all their lives and are struggling to make ends meet. However, what if they want the $10,000 trip each year to Hawaii, what if they are over-spending?? We need to ensure the struggle isn't their own doing. I have total sympathy for a single parent and/or with a child with special needs. Life has thrown them a bad bone, and that's when society needs to step up AS A NATION and say we want to help, this is what our nation is all about.

But, leave the "haves" out of the "haves not" discussion. The "haves" have what they have because they worked hard for it.

We all know of some haves who have never really worked for anything in their entire life, they are 3rd or 4th or 5th generation of haves, whose great grandfather invented some widget way back when, and they have lived off it for generations. Many-most times being rich is an accident of birth, not hard work.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

We all know of some haves who have never really worked for anything in their entire life, they are 3rd or 4th or 5th generation of haves, whose great grandfather invented some widget way back when, and they have lived off it for generations. Many-most times being rich is an accident of birth, not hard work.

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That's where that theory comes right off the rails,though. Yes,some are born into financial dynasties,but,you still need to consider that having it is one thing. Keeping it is altogether different and takes guts,gumption,education and tons of talent to keep it viable. Are they really to be penalized because of it? I think NOT.

For most their accountant puts their dividend money in an account for them to spend. How about something like for any inheritance over 10 million, yes million, you pay a 90% inheritance tax, and no hiding the cash through tax loopholes.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

We all know of some haves who have never really worked for anything in their entire life, they are 3rd or 4th or 5th generation of haves, whose great grandfather invented some widget way back when, and they have lived off it for generations. Many-most times being rich is an accident of birth, not hard work.

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Fisher: how many people do you think this description would really apply to ?? Not very many I think. Most people in the "have" column have worked for it.

Willing to bet that at least 50% of people who own companies have family members working for them that will then have the company passed down to them.I wonder the % of people in university, who also had one or both parents that went to uni. (accident of birth). Going to university does give you a better chance at a higher paying career. Should someone from a poor family, (accident of birth), not have the same chance to go to university , graduate without debt, ( do you think rich kids pay back their parents?), and thus provide a better chance for their family to move up the economic ladder? It is sad in this day and age that a person with the smarts, can't go on to post secondary education because of lack of funds.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Willing to bet that at least 50% of people who own companies have family members working for them that will then have the company passed down to them.I wonder the % of people in university, who also had one or both parents that went to uni. (accident of birth). Going to university does give you a better chance at a higher paying career. Should someone from a poor family, (accident of birth), not have the same chance to go to university , graduate without debt and thus provide a better chance for their family to move up the economic ladder? It is sad in this day and age that a person with the smarts, can't go on to post secondary education because of lack of funds.

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Yes,yes and yes and that's exactly the way the system should work. All socialists hate this adage,but,it's 100% true. "There's no such thing as a free lunch." If people with "smarts" want an education,they're "smart" enough to figure out how to pay for it t-h-e-m-s-e-l-v-e-s without whining and snivelling that they "didn't get the breaks in life". Stealing from those who have already "made it" to the top is just that ,theft,pure and simple. That's just life.

It is not stealing, but an equitable redistribution of funds, from those who have more than enough for generations, to those who do not have enough for now.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Willing to bet that at least 50% of people who own companies have family members working for them that will then have the company passed down to them.I wonder the % of people in university, who also had one or both parents that went to uni. (accident of birth). Going to university does give you a better chance at a higher paying career. Should someone from a poor family, (accident of birth), not have the same chance to go to university , graduate without debt, ( do you think rich kids pay back their parents?), and thus provide a better chance for their family to move up the economic ladder? It is sad in this day and age that a person with the smarts, can't go on to post secondary education because of lack of funds.

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well - if I worked hard to start a company, build it up to something, employ people, pay corporate taxes and contribute to society, passing it down to my kids is my right. Period.

don't get me wrong I agree with helping people who need a leg up, but as Species said "separating the wheat from the chaff" is the hardest part, always has been and always will be. There are no magic solutions and putting the governments hand deeper into the pockets of those who have worked hard is not the answer.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Willing to bet that at least 50% of people who own companies have family members working for them that will then have the company passed down to them.I wonder the % of people in university, who also had one or both parents that went to uni. (accident of birth). Going to university does give you a better chance at a higher paying career. Should someone from a poor family, (accident of birth), not have the same chance to go to university , graduate without debt, ( do you think rich kids pay back their parents?), and thus provide a better chance for their family to move up the economic ladder? It is sad in this day and age that a person with the smarts, can't go on to post secondary education because of lack of funds.

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fishermaccann,

I had the ability to go to university but I choose to go to Sir Sandford Fleming and live at home so when I came out of school I didn't have a boatload of debt. I never took a dime from my parents for my post secondary education not because my parents couldn't afford it (my dad worked at the motors and my mother was in administration) but because I felt if I did take any financial help, it would put a hardship on my siblings. I payed my own way by busting my hump priming tobacco in the summer and working at Taco Bell during school as well as working as a summer student in the motors when the opportunity presented itself (as well as being a member of the Hasty P's). This fabrication that if you are poor (or have limited finances), you need to go into massive debt for an education or to get a well paying job has to go because it simply isn't true. Education costs money. Whether you want to pay now or pay later is a choice.

Also, university doesn't give you a better chance at a higher paying career. I know for a fact when I started my career as a junior designer I was making more money than a junior engineer because the market needed more junior designers than engineers (the majority of my industry has been this way). The market decides a person's wages, not their education.

Dyth

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

well - if I worked hard to start a company, build it up to something, employ people, pay corporate taxes and contribute to society, passing it down to my kids is my right. Period.

don't get me wrong I agree with helping people who need a leg up, but as Species said "separating the wheat from the chaff" is the hardest part, always has been and always will be. There are no magic solutions and putting the governments hand deeper into the pockets of those who have worked hard is not the answer.

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Agreed, but what if it was your great- great- grandfather who did all the work, and you just happened to be a seed that took hold one day , do you have an inherent right to an extravagant life, while others eat dirt?

Dyth, come on, who do you think makes more on AVERAGE , a primary school graduate, a high school graduate, a collage graduate , a university graduate with a degree ? Of course there is always exceptions. The ticket out of poverty for most IS a higher education.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Dyth, come on, who do you think makes more on AVERAGE , a primary school graduate, a high school graduate, a collage graduate , a university graduate with a degree ? Of course there is always exceptions. The ticket out of poverty for most IS a higher education.

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Not disputing higher education is a ticket out of poverty (I don't think anyone is) but to insinuate a university graduate with a degree will automatically make more on average is false. For every engineer, doctor, etc a university churns out, there is a English lit major, history major, etc graduating along side of them and they bring down the uni's average earnings. In fact, some of the most successful people in the world are not university graduates.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Agreed, but what if it was your great- great- grandfather who did all the work, and you just happened to be a seed that took hold one day , do you have an inherent right to an extravagant life, while others eat dirt?

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again, I think this is an extreme exception and not common. Did you have a bad experience with a spoiled brat somewhere in your past ? I don't think it's realistic to have policy discussions with these odd examples. Most people work for what they have, and when you've worked for something, most of us VALUE it and are reluctant to share with those who have not worked. That's just the way we're wired.

like Dyth, I saved money where I could and worked to get through post-secondary with minimal help from my parents. I'm not saying it's easy but everyone makes choices with their money. I'm asking that they not make choices with MY money. That means you Kathleen.

Please look it up in Stats Can, you are wrong, a university degree WILL give you a higher average income, then without one, it has been proven over and over. Yes as I said there are exceptions but we are talking about an average, you are better off with one, than without, no question about it. Sorry but I feel you are entitled to the furthest education your mind and ability take you, not how much money you have.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Please look it up in Stats Can, you are wrong, a university degree WILL give you a higher average income, then without one, it has been proven over and over. Yes as I said there are exceptions but we are talking about an average, you are better off with one, than without, no question about it.

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I stand corrected about uni vs college education.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Sorry but I feel you are entitled to the furthest education your mind and ability take you, not how much money you have.

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As I stated I never went to university but I am seriously considering a career change which involves a university education. Please let me know how I can contact you so you can give me money.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

I wonder the % of people in university, who also had one or both parents that went to uni. (accident of birth). Going to university does give you a better chance at a higher paying career. Should someone from a poor family, (accident of birth), not have the same chance to go to university , graduate without debt, ( do you think rich kids pay back their parents?), and thus provide a better chance for their family to move up the economic ladder? It is sad in this day and age that a person with the smarts, can't go on to post secondary education because of lack of funds.

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Don't know the % but I can speak for my family and also that of my first cousins. All told there are 28 kids in 8 families. All the parents of every one of these families were immigrants and all the parents are also functionally illiterate (both my parents only finished grade 6 in a foreign country). Out of the 28 all of us finished high school and 20 of us went to post secondary (about 50/50 split between college/university). None of the post secondary was paid for by the parents or the government and none of us graduated with debt. It can be done. In fact some of us even went on to do graduate studies (back when I started my business I taught part time at Humber for extra money and my sister is a full time professor in the U of T Law department.)

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

while others eat dirt?

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Wonder how many calories dirt has? In Canada I don't think I have ever seen a skinny poor person.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Dyth, come on, who do you think makes more on AVERAGE , a primary school graduate, a high school graduate, a collage graduate , a university graduate with a degree ? Of course there is always exceptions. The ticket out of poverty for most IS a higher education.

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The ticket out of poverty is hard work !!
You can make more in the trades now than most with a Bachelor degree and you only need a grade 12 and the willingness to work to be in the building trades.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Agreed, but what if it was your great- great- grandfather who did all the work, and you just happened to be a seed that took hold one day , do you have an inherent right to an extravagant life, while others eat dirt?

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Short answer is YES.
My money .... Leave it alone even if I inherited it.
If want want to give away yours no one is stopping you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Sorry but I feel you are entitled to the furthest education your mind and ability take you,

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There! Fixed it for you.:joker:

What happened to as they were called back then Trade schools you couldn't make it to high school but they took you in at trade school???

In my time they had both yea we teased them not good enough for real school.

But I know alot of them and the guys I know are retired now. I with my education am still struggling ??

Yes I'm in the trade's licensed Electrician

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

again, I think this is an extreme exception and not common. Did you have a bad experience with a spoiled brat somewhere in your past ? I don't think it's realistic to have policy discussions with these odd examples. Most people work for what they have, and when you've worked for something, most of us VALUE it and are reluctant to share with those who have not worked. That's just the way we're wired.

like Dyth, I saved money where I could and worked to get through post-secondary with minimal help from my parents. I'm not saying it's easy but everyone makes choices with their money. I'm asking that they not make choices with MY money. That means you Kathleen.

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Well said. I too worked all day , and went to University at night and Sat. morning for 8 years to get my B.A and Special Education Specialist ; that has paid off financially/opportunities big time over my working years.
I tutor math/english on line, and when a student tells me that he/she can't afford to go to college/university , I tell them my story. Their common response is "Well, nobody does that now." :whacked:

The cold reality is we don't need every kid to go to university. Far too many graduates already. What's the point of graduating twice as many teachers as is needed or nurses? In many cases what we need are skilled trades and these days most trades pay extremely well. Call a plumber or electrician and see what they charge. In many cases a degree is beneficial but as already mentioned not much demand for most Arts degrees. Yet those programs are heavily subsidized by mostly borrowed tax dollars. Education is good but at some point simple basic priorities have to be set. I'm pretty sure the money trees have died off.
Having said this I do agree that in an advanced and wealthy society like ours that higher education shouldn't be reserved for the sons and daughters of wealthy people. There should be no barriers to post secondary if they can get the marks. We waste billions on crooked initiatives and cover ups. How many kids could we have educated with ADSCAM, Ornge, Gas plants and on and on........

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Originally Posted by MarkB

I almost agree with you. The one thing I think we need to stop is penalizing those that have because we envy their situation. There are people who work hard, maybe you can argue are little lucky, and make some good money. We cannot argue helping those in need, by waging war on those that have worked hard and are succesful. It is not their sole responsibility, and they have done no crime to deserve isolating them and making them responsible for everything. I am 100% against penalizing succesful people by over-taxing them. You work your butt off to make money, and then someone can come and take it all away? Not a very good recipe for success. Everyone will just say, screw it, and not put in the effort. Then what does society become?

I do though support helping those who have worked hard all their lives and are struggling to make ends meet. However, what if they want the $10,000 trip each year to Hawaii, what if they are over-spending?? We need to ensure the struggle isn't their own doing. [COLOR=#ff0000]I have total sympathy for a single parent and/or with a child with special needs. Life has thrown them a bad bone, and that's when society needs to step up AS A NATION and say we want to help, this is what our nation is all about.

But, leave the "haves" out of the "haves not" discussion. The "haves" have what they have because they worked hard for it.

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YUP!! And this where the social left utterly fails....They throw people who are "struggling" under the bus. Over and Over and Over. Me I'm lucky, I make (or made lol) good coin. The tax man and Gords of the world see my T4...
They don't see the cancer, they don't see the tens of thousands in medical cost, the don't see the child diagnosed with X and who will "struggle" all her life, but qualifies for nothing, nor do they see the child who spent 3 months in hospital, was badly victimized and as a result came off the rails herself.

Not a chance in hell I could put either through Uni, but I suppose I can pay to put other kids through.

What about those who weren't or aren't as "lucky" as me.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Yes,yes and yes and that's exactly the way the system should work. All socialists hate this adage,but,it's 100% true. "There's no such thing as a free lunch." If people with "smarts" want an education,they're "smart" enough to figure out how to pay for it t-h-e-m-s-e-l-v-e-s without whining and snivelling that they "didn't get the breaks in life". Stealing from those who have already "made it" to the top is just that ,theft,pure and simple. That's just life.

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NOPE
And this is where hard liners are wrong. Tell that to many of my teen friends, especially those from Regent Park. Many are very smart, they often end up using those smarts to fleece the system, or well to do high brow academics nine ways to Sunday instead. How many "break out"...Not that many. Me I was blessed or cursed with an "IQ" over 170. Smart enough to get myself in all kinds of trouble and still dumb enough to make all kinds of mistakes. Ask me how much I think of that. Not much.

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

The ticket out of poverty is hard work !!
You can make more in the trades now than most with a Bachelor degree and you only need a grade 12 and the willingness to work to be in the building trades.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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True kind of. There are still barriers for many. See above.

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Originally Posted by Rodbender

What happened to as they were called back then Trade schools you couldn't make it to high school but they took you in at trade school??? In my time they had both yea we teased them not good enough for real school.

But I know alot of them and the guys I know are retired now. I with my education am still struggling ??

Yes I'm in the trade's licensed Electrician

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Life happens. The left often forget that, something any Financial Advisors knows all too well.
job loss...out comes the credit line for many..
health or parents they one day have to take care of
Even car accidents.
Legal troubles and say legal fees that wipe out....
How many single moms do I know who work their off and can't find 2 nickels?
How many single dads renting basement apartments?.......

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Originally Posted by terrym

The cold reality is we don't need every kid to go to university. Far too many graduates already. What's the point of graduating twice as many teachers as is needed or nurses? In many cases what we need are skilled trades and these days most trades pay extremely well. Call a plumber or electrician and see what they charge. In many cases a degree is beneficial but as already mentioned not much demand for most Arts degrees. Yet those programs are heavily subsidized by mostly borrowed tax dollars. Education is good but at some point simple basic priorities have to be set. I'm pretty sure the money trees have died off.
Having said this I do agree that in an advanced and wealthy society like ours that higher education shouldn't be reserved for the sons and daughters of wealthy people. There should be no barriers to post secondary if they can get the marks. We waste billions on crooked initiatives and cover ups. How many kids could we have educated with ADSCAM, Ornge, Gas plants and on and on........

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Degree are becoming necessary, the problem though is us. We feel they are.We judge people by their pedigrees, not their abilities.

The last couple sentences yup. The province takes in more than enough. Where and how they spend or blow it.

Saw a frasier institute study yesterday. With Ms Wynne new tax on the rich and JTs new tax on the rich. Those in the highest brackets now pay...sorry donate 53%. The typical stiff around 43%.

Perfect example.
Anyone think this child (Or her father) will get any kind of relief or help, let alone be in a position to put her through Uni?
not sure how his ex will come up with the damages.

2 ruined lives, an 8 year old who if she doesn't get a lot of help now (expensive that, paid $120/hr for my one daughters) will fall between the cracks. http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...a-36-day-trial
But hey he earns and 100k, and can afford to be taxed to the teeth (let alone "Hydro).

Me I was lucky, despite "problems" the Ex and I kept our legal bills to a minimum.

50% of society will get divorced. That doesn't include common law, or those who separate and never file the divorce papers.
Oddly enough, money is cited as one leading cause.
How many kids these days are sold dreams of white picket fences, corporate ladders, 2,000 square foot homes and the way there is rushing off to University/College, often racking up quite a bit of debt..Come out, get married, have kids. All of them

Then find "themselves" in their 30s in a field or career that doesn't make them happy, and married to a person they don't really love or know anymore?

Probably around 50%

Life happens.
And the left is killing the middle class

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Originally Posted by JBen

Perfect example.
Anyone think this child (Or her father) will get any kind of relief or help, let alone be in a position to put her through Uni?
not sure how his ex will come up with the damages.

2 ruined lives, an 8 year old who if she doesn't get a lot of help now (expensive that, paid $120/hr for my one daughters) will fall between the cracks. http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...a-36-day-trial
But hey he earns and 100k, and can afford to be taxed to the teeth (let alone "Hydro).

Me I was lucky, despite "problems" the Ex and I kept our legal bills to a minimum.

50% of society will get divorced. That doesn't include common law, or those who separate and never file the divorce papers.
Oddly enough, money is cited as one leading cause.
How many kids these days are sold dreams of white picket fences, corporate ladders, 2,000 square foot homes and the way there is rushing off to University/College, often racking up quite a bit of debt..Come out, get married, have kids. All of them

Then find "themselves" in their 30s in a field or career that doesn't make them happy, and married to a person they don't really love or know anymore?

Probably around 50%

Life happens.
And the left is killing the middle class

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Stuff like that,though,JBen,is just l-i-f-e. Expecting a country's tax base to pay for every ill of society in the form of a university education is just plain wrong-headed thinking on every level. There's no way that would ever be sustainable. Can't you just imagine what that would like after the academic socialists that run the education system ever got their hands on the taxpayers wallet? I shudder to think.

Exactly what I mean Trimmer.
Its life and it happens. Be it divorce, or job loss, or a bad enough car accident, or a kid that hits a big enough speed bump.

When your left with say 15% of your income after taxes, housing, food, clothing. And these are middle class numbers. It doesn't leave much disposable income. And because your not the needy, or disadvantaged.

Too bad, so sad thanks for playing. That cop above? Divorce is bad enough, 500,000 legal bills? Not sure how the ex will 130,000 in awarded damages, can't squeeze blood from stone. And she also sounds vindictive enough to declare bankruptcy.....

Not sure how he can pay to put his daughter through Uni (And she's going to need professional help and it aint cheap)...

But he can pay for others kids.

Heres another one.
Assuming we all get severance packages. And assuming "mine" is what is deemed "common law". Well the tax man is going to rape me. Who knows how long I might be unemployed...

"luckily" for me, Im ok and my perspective on life is very different.
Most aren't in my shoes.

Quite a number of my colleagues might not see a penny for months. They like everyone else have kids, mortgages, etc, etc.
/wonders how many tax dollars they have chipped in over the years.
And now.

Too bad, so sad your middle class

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Stuff like that,though,JBen,is just l-i-f-e. Expecting a country's tax base to pay for every ill of society in the form of a university education is just plain wrong-headed thinking on every level. There's no way that would ever be sustainable. Can't you just imagine what that would like after the academic socialists that run the education system ever got their hands on the taxpayers wallet? I shudder to think.

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Very good point. Universities today have eliminated debate and are run by left wing administrations. To give that group even more standing and funding would slowly erode this country. I do feel that underprivileged kids who want to succeed shouldn't be held back by lack of money. Not sure how to solve that problem and unfortunately it will be addressed for strictly political gain as always.

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Assuming we all get severance packages. And assuming "mine" is what is deemed "common law". Well the tax man is going to rape me. Who knows how long I might be unemployed...

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And another.
I'm 52, the likely hood of me finding a similar job are slim and none. Many other jobs in my industry Im way over qualified for. Im also up against thousands of people in their 20s and 30s trying to "get their feet in the door". The law says employers can't discriminate me based on my age...

Reality....that thing called the real world ivory tower types don't live in...says
good luck.

Irony
Even though I'm considering it putting myself through 2-3years of Uni to do something entirely different.....Not sure it's financially feasible, will depend my severance (if/when) and what's left after the taxes. Unemployed, life things, kids that need me, bills...

But hey, I can pay for others
:)

The timing on that article is spooky. A friend of mine has been going through the same thing. The only difference is both he and his wife are cops and make the same money with same benefits/pensions. There was no adultery on either side she just "fell out of love". A year after the split he finds that women basically line up for him as many would love to have a cop's pay cheque to live off of. That drives the ex wife insane and they are now blowing thousands on lawyers. Basically she didn't want him anymore but the thought of him moving on makes her crazy.
I'm in my 26th year of marriage and like most we have had our speed bumps but consider myself a very lucky and happy man. I think the younger generation are far too quick to throw in the towel and run to the lawyers.

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[COLOR=#333333]are far too quick to throw in the towel and run to the lawyers.

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Don't know about that Terry. Divorced myself, the reasons and how like most is a long story.
I'm curious. You have kids right? A daughter? Im raising my girls to do and be whoever they want, money (for some reason we all feel we need to make 80k to be happy), careers, more...its a mirage.

If either of my girls end up unhappy for any reason. Their jobs/career, their marriage.
Do what you want and makes you happy. I don't give 2 Shytes about $$ (for myself anyways). Used to many, many years ago.

Wouldn't you tell your daughter the same?
I don't begrudge my ex at all. She's still with her boss and happy.

Divorce is a fact of life. In fact it's probably the right thing for many. No denying that in many cases it's premature and divorce lawyers drive Benzes and Beemers and have kids in private school because of that.

Lol. Yep.

lots of theories out there divorce rates are so high. Was a time people stayed together miserable, because that's what our parents did, or that's what society expected people to do.

Now they are easy, if not cheap. But ask many divorced people if they are happier post divorce despite the financial "hardship"...........answer will be near universal.

When I first got divorced, I did a fair bit of reading. Statistics say it takes people 7 years to recover.

Years later i look look back and wonder about that word "recover".
Financially?
find themselves?

All philosophical that.
**************

Back on topic.
the reality is, most people and don't forget the mean duo income can barely find the money to save for their futures. How many have the disposable income for RESPs on top of "everything" else.
And yet, somehow they are supposed to pay for other people's kids?

what happens when life deals a speed bump, be it small (totalling a car and needing to $$ for a new one), middling (some health thing) or even 9months of LTD...or the larger ones

job loss
Divorce
caring for a dependant child/parent.

were killing the middle class

Hit the wrong key




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lol, we all do it. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

YUP!! And this where the social left utterly fails....They throw people who are "struggling" under the bus. Over and Over and Over. Me I'm lucky, I make (or made lol) good coin. The tax man and Gords of the world see my T4...
They don't see the cancer, they don't see the tens of thousands in medical cost, the don't see the child diagnosed with X and who will "struggle" all her life, but qualifies for nothing, nor do they see the child who spent 3 months in hospital, was badly victimized and as a result came off the rails herself.

Not a chance in hell I could put either through Uni, but I suppose I can pay to put other kids through.

What about those who weren't or aren't as "lucky" as me.



NOPE
And this is where hard liners are wrong. Tell that to many of my teen friends, especially those from Regent Park. Many are very smart, they often end up using those smarts to fleece the system, or well to do high brow academics nine ways to Sunday instead. How many "break out"...Not that many. Me I was blessed or cursed with an "IQ" over 170. Smart enough to get myself in all kinds of trouble and still dumb enough to make all kinds of mistakes. Ask me how much I think of that. Not much.



True kind of. There are still barriers for many. See above.



Life happens. The left often forget that, something any Financial Advisors knows all too well.
job loss...out comes the credit line for many..
health or parents they one day have to take care of
Even car accidents.
Legal troubles and say legal fees that wipe out....
How many single moms do I know who work their off and can't find 2 nickels?
How many single dads renting basement apartments?.......





Degree are becoming necessary, the problem though is us. We feel they are.We judge people by their pedigrees, not their abilities.

The last couple sentences yup. The province takes in more than enough. Where and how they spend or blow it.

Saw a frasier institute study yesterday. With Ms Wynne new tax on the rich and JTs new tax on the rich. Those in the highest brackets now pay...sorry donate 53%. The typical stiff around 43%.

---

Jben
When David Miller was Mayor we were forced to hire people from " at risk neighbourhoods "
Not on merit but on social class.
Every one of those hires was a disaster !
That was a ticket out of poverty and a pension. Every one of them lost that job by there own doing.
I have worked at the same place since I was 17, I am now 53 and still working. I will soon get that golden pension after over 36 years of work.
Why anyone would be concerned about my well deserved pension when we have " baby factories " popping out kids is beyond me.
That baby factories monthly welfare cheques are much more that my pension and at least I had to get up at 5 AM for 36 years to get mine.


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Well let me put my two cents in - first of all lets talk divorce - I know that I grew up in a different time but the question is why so many divorces now - growing up I didn't know of anyone that got divorced - except for those Hollywood people - when someone got married it was a life time commitment - for better or worse until death do us part - things were tough for many families but the parents stuck it out - because of the commitment made and because of the kids - there also was a religious factor - for Christians divorce was a no-no -

My father-in-law was an old time coal miner - he drank like a fish and was abusive to his wife and family but you know something his wife made the best of it and raised several nice kids - to this day I give her credit for how she kept the family together - they both died many years ago but the life time commitment of marriage still lives on with their kids and grandkids

Growing up in a coal mining town where men often got killed in the mines and often didn't work steady was tough - we were poor and so was just about everyone else - but the families were strong and stayed together because of their faith - my one uncle was killed in the mines at age 29 - he left 5 little kids behind - eleven years later my other uncle was killed in the mines - he had 7 kids - you know something ever one of those kids grew up and became responsible people - what was the thing that helped them through troubled times - their Christian faith -

Now I know many of you will disagree with me and some will state the fact that today Christians are getting divorced at pretty much the same rate as non-believers - and yes sadly that is true - but it doesn't eliminate the fact that Christ taught that divorce was wrong - people today don't really know what love is - if you really love someone you can't fall out of love at some later date - if you love someone you would die for that person if you had to - people are not careful enough when the chose a partner and then they go into marriage with one foot sticking out ready to run when things get a little tough

Then finally there is the idea that if you work hard enough you can make something of yourself no matter how difficult it is - believe me I know - when I was discharged from the army I had nothing - I started working - went to school and got an associate degree in engineering - continued to work and went to night school and after 13 years ending up with a BS and MS in Mechanical Engineering - as a result I had good jobs and a nice life style - my 3 boys all have engineering degrees and my daughter is a nurse - all doing very well - so no matter how hard it might be if you really want something bad enough there is a way to get it - it may be a lot harder because of where you start from but it can be done and with the support of a strong family your kids will benefit also

Oh jeez :)

As I said/meant/intended. Not all break out, few do. I buried a couple friends back then, and likely left more behind. Why should we help them? So that those people your referring to (too late by then most often)...dont (searches for right words) raise kids who learn from their parents for lack of better words. Have to get them while they are young.

When I spent way too much time in Regent Park it opened my eyes to many things. Id be sleeping with a girl in a roach infested co-op, walking through the "projects" at all hours, where.......Many of the kids/teens wanted nothing of their parents lives, which ran the gamut from scamming the system, cashing their welfare checks and buying booze, selling this that or the other...Do you understand how hard it is to break out, or the cycle?

Think just about kids who suffer physical abuse. Guess what....they tend to become abusers themselves.
****

Look around today.
Certainly there are those with cell phones, laptops (kind of needed for school/life today)...Where do they come from? Well likely for many, from crime when your on those sides of the tracks. When your 12 or 13 and life is very different from what you or I were raised in, but the kids with money are those in the gangs....well you become runners, and on and on.

And what does it cost you?
Taxes to put them in jail
Maybe your kid when they fall to drugs
Maybe a cop when they get shot
Insurance on your car
Social services, be they healthcare related (junkies) or healthcare ( they don't eat/live well, usually the opposite by destroying their spleens and more)
and on
and on

Answers?
Likely beyond me, other than better use of our tax dollars.

and for safeties sake.
do note I fully agreed with you
"yup"

disagree with the hardline stance

Watch out Straggalelake , you mentioned the 'P' word, others will demonize you for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Watch out Straggalelake , you mentioned the 'P' word, others will demonize you for it.

---

Bring it on !
At least I get up in the morning and do my job.
If you want to focus on wasted money let's start with people that don't own an alarm clock.
If you work and don't like the benefits from your job that's understandable but don't think by other people giving up there benefits it's going to help you.
That's called a race to the bottom.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JBen

Oh jeez :)

As I said/meant/intended. Not all break out, few do. I buried a couple friends back then, and likely left more behind. Why should we help them? So that those people your referring to (too late by then most often)...dont (searches for right words) raise kids who learn from their parents for lack of better words. Have to get them while they are young.

When I spent way too much time in Regent Park it opened my eyes to many things. Id be sleeping with a girl in a roach infested co-op, walking through the "projects" at all hours, where.......Many of the kids/teens wanted nothing of their parents lives, which ran the gamut from scamming the system, cashing their welfare checks and buying booze, selling this that or the other...Do you understand how hard it is to break out, or the cycle?

Think just about kids who suffer physical abuse. Guess what....they tend to become abusers themselves.
****

Look around today.
Certainly there are those with cell phones, laptops (kind of needed for school/life today)...Where do they come from? Well likely for many, from crime when your on those sides of the tracks. When your 12 or 13 and life is very different from what you or I were raised in, but the kids with money are those in the gangs....well you become runners, and on and on.

And what does it cost you?
Taxes to put them in jail
Maybe your kid when they fall to drugs
Maybe a cop when they get shot
Insurance on your car
Social services, be they healthcare related (junkies) or healthcare ( they don't eat/live well, usually the opposite by destroying their spleens and more)
and on
and on

Answers?
Likely beyond me, other than better use of our tax dollars.

and for safeties sake.
do note I fully agreed with you
"yup"

disagree with the hardline stance

---

Jben
You don't know how I grew up.
Don't assume I had it better than someone else.
Making excuses for people's behaviour is just enabling them.
That does more harm in the long run.
Some people have a tougher start than others.... That's life.
Set the alarm clock and get out of bed. !!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

Bring it on !
At least I get up in the morning and do my job.
If you want to focus on wasted money let's start with people that don't own an alarm clock.
If you work and don't like the benefits from your job that's understandable but don't think by other people giving up there benefits it's going to help you.
That's called a race to the bottom.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

LOL Right on !!!

I did? That's funny, don't recall doing that. Did say very different than you or I.
Perhaps your parents were on welfare, and you grew up in the projects. If so, I was mistaken. By all means correct me, Were you?

As for the rest, well.
By now hopefully my stance is understood. Seriously don't care about your entitlements. Do care when billions are being blown, and more (corruption, investigations, the usual waste etc) and people are taking it on the chin. These days, many of those people work just as hard, many especially those outside the GTA aren't as fortunate. Jobs are scarcer, income is lower and more. And who most famously stands in the way of much needed change be it finding savings or getting rid of this admin.

"PS", well more specifically their Unions.

Well it's been awhile, and no "oops sorry Jben" somehow I misread "life is different than you or I were raised". For all I know SL life was very hard for you to. Maybe you were an orphan, had or have a learning disability (Dyslexia maybe, acute anxiety maybe...thank god no one excused your behaviour) "cough"......maybe an immigrant and had to learn a new language. Life would still be different wouldn't it......
/shrug

but here's a thought for you and Yellow Dog.
I will assume (this time I am making an assumption)
I gather there are those you feel we shouldn't really be "helping". Can't say I disagree.

hope you realize when you pull the funding from whichever ministry, department.

you just laid off a few hundred PS, be they social workers, counsellors, and many many more, possibly including some Teachers. Who quite likely, don't have it all that great either. Or screwed with their "entitlements". Anyone but me?

Funny that.

Interesting read JBen and Stragglelake - two different approaches to "helping". Imo there is no black and white stance. Sometimes helping is the right thing to do and sometimes tough love is the right thing to do. Entitlements is a whole other subject, and varies with the generation. Good read.

The world is rarely black or white Sharon. Almost always a shade of grey.

Re "entitlements"
Chose that word specifically, hopefully just to create a pause. if you go back, you'll notice I put it in quotations. Fact is we are entitled to nothing in this life.

A lot of shall we say call it irony, accused of making assumptions, with a whole lot of assumptions being made about others and me for that matter. The world works in funny ways :)

Can and will say.
1) Walk a mile as it pertains to the disadvantaged. There are many in this world (not alluding to anyone here) who wouldn't give a homeless person the time of day. Did they fall between the cracks?...Do they suffer some disorder that prevented them from going to school, being accepted..judged by their behaviour... The impacts of socioeconomic disadvantages are well known. Just look south of the border. Why don't we have the same crime/gang/inner city problems and a powder keg on a slow burn. A number of reasons, one of which is we spend a lot. On Education, On this and that.

2) If I'm not mistaken if we yanked a few hundred million over a couple years from such things. Well, might that not put you out of work?

Lol, it might also incase your work load to :)..So we rob the MNRs budget, lay off more COs to hire more Sharons......? Or are you staring at a pink slip.

Must make you feel better know there are PS people who T off on the likes of me, but would have no problems throwing your area of PS under the bus ;)

3) If we listen to the Yellow Dogs, he will tell us many area's/departments are already spread thin. He has also said he's in SW ONT if I recall correctly. Me, I don't doubt that at all. One only needs to look at how the province is handling the strain on Nursing/Hospitals. Pulling funding from area's where population growth is going down or is growing slower than urban centres where...See TO.

I suppose if we don't help people, we will need many more Nurses and many more administrators and many more......
So yep we save on that hand, and pay out the other.

Suppose if the cupboards weren't bare, suppose if the economy were robust we might have the cash, people would be doing ok. Certainly not getting hammered. Anyone seen how well the Walmarts are doing these past 5-6 years? Why are so many more and more people shopping there.....

/looks around.......

what oh what are we to do.
Am pretty sure Smokey would blow a gasket and fire up the drums if..........those in that area of PS got thrown under the bus

No one to blame really but this admin, and those who put and keep them there

PS unions are their own worst enemies. If for one example teachers were paid a max of $70k instead of $93k the simple fact is we could probably afford smaller classes and that would mean more employed teachers and a better finished product/students. They would still have summers/Xmas/March break and fabulous pensions. The unions are like wolves, they never let up and eventually eat their own.

Back on track....to all our American friends,remember this.Attachment 32366

Trump is looking even better ! lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by terrym

PS unions are their own worst enemies. If for one example teachers were paid a max of $70k instead of $93k the simple fact is we could probably afford smaller classes and that would mean more employed teachers and a better finished product/students. They would still have summers/Xmas/March break and fabulous pensions. The unions are like wolves, they never let up and eventually eat their own.

---

The government would find a way to spend the money on another scam...... It's the government that is not being responsible...If history is any indication, no matter how much they would save, they would never invest it in a wise manner.

Back on track with the OP here is an hilarious message from Ellen. Enjoy Joe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxgpMLSK_I8

"newsroom"
Fantastic series but most famous for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjMqda19wk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JBen

"newsroom"
Fantastic series but most famous for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjMqda19wk

---

It maybe a work of fiction,but damn,it's right on the money.

Yep. That must piss off bunch of chest thumpers......��

Ya but we kinda already knew that. lol Poor JoePa will be crying himself to sleep tonight. Ive been duped .

Aside from anything else, it speaks well to what "plagues" the U.S., the politics and the polarization. Trump really is just a symptom. It boggles me that so many "blame" Trump including politicians. When they really should be asking, why is he so popular, what are we doing wrong.

the series Newsoom is actually really good, and delves into some of the political issues. Shame it only ran 3 seasons

Is Newsroom on Netflix?

HBO. I watched it off Android but am sure there are dvd sets out and think it can be streamed direct from HBO Canada.

Well worth it Terry. Could be the best series I've watched in years. Aside from good acting and brilliant writing, it's made more interesting by following and "reporting" on real life events. Various political event s(including the Koch brothers), election, rise of the tea party, Boston Marathon bombing, etc etc.

In short, a "newsroom" that recognizes the media is part of the problem, doesn't report the news and facts without bias (the CBC), relying on $, rating numbers etc, etc...."Imagine" a news syndicate that actually reported the news, just facts (see opening monologue from season 1). Thats not to say the shows sticks to just facts, but thats one of the underlying plot lines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ne....S._TV_series)

I'll look for it. Sounds like my kind of show. Finishing up house of cards, and just started season 1 of sons of anarchy. Don't watch regular TV.

House of Cards. Another decent one. It "lost" me after season 3. You may have noticed the writer's the same.

No JoePa isn't crying in his sleep because JoePa agrees that his country is not what it used to be - I've mentioned that fact a number of times in posts that I made - we have lost our soul and I'm the first one to admit it - we were once a moral nation - built on Christian beliefs and principles - on the rule of law - we gave our blood and treasure for causes that we thought were just - now the progressive liberals have gotten a foot hold and have steered this once great nation on a course of destruction - and who is to blame - the people - so self centered - give me, give me - the youth of today don't even value the freedom and liberty so many died for - electing Obama is just one example of what is going on - is there any hope - I don't know - there are a lot of us who recognize what is going on but I'm not sure if we are the majority - this next election will tell - if a progressive like Clinton gets elected - it is all over but the shouting -

I was once proud to be an American - I'm a Korean war vet but I find today that I have little in common with my country - we support things today that we were ashamed of years ago - our government officials are corrupt and nothing happens - the press is in the back pocket of the liberals - you can't believe anything that you read - we are broke because the people vote for the politician who will give them free stuff never thinking how it is going to be paid for - I'm afraid that the shining city on a hill is going dark unless some big changes happen - the US was great at one time but not anymore -

Bah Joe I get it.
The US is bashed a lot, must be frustrating to hear (and read).

Tell ya what, when it hits the fan and its my very strong belief it will. Sooner, rather than later...We had the underground railroad once upon a time, we can do it again. Make your way up here where the air is clean, the water fresh and where we Canucks while often a little smug rather than boorish do know how to make beer and "Canadian Bacon". And if its really bad as in find a deep dark cave bad, and I think it might be. Well find a way to bring all those guns with you. Were going to need them. Don't worry about border services, they to will be running for deep dark caves

Great if you were white, maybe not if you were gay , black. Hispanic, atheist, etc. This line says it all. ' we support things we were ashamed of years ago'. The question would be, what were you ashamed of, gay rights , segregation, women who vote? Be honest, the facts prove it, you are broke from too many wars.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Great if you were white, maybe not if you were gay , black. Hispanic, atheist, etc. This line says it all. ' we support things we were ashamed of years ago'. The question would be, what were you ashamed of, gay rights , segregation, women who vote? Be honest, the facts prove it, you are broke from too many wars.

---

Oh I think we have money for at least one more.

Hang in there Joe, Billy says it best...............

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/...pszjtc1zjt.jpg

Lol R. :)

G, theres a meme flying around FB the past week or so. It's a picture of Detroit, you know, that wasteland that looks like this?
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...c=0-0&sp=-1&sk=

It reads like this: Detroit 50 years of Liberal and Union rule:
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...c=0-0&sp=-1&sk=

Are you so sure the US is broke, because of wars?

Last I checked Ontario never fought a war, and yet...
JT is running from one....and yet, he is pushing us down the same rabbit hole.

Shades of grey

The facts prove that the USA, did not have the money for the last 2 wars they started, they borrowed money , trillions and trillions to pay for them.

/point towards
Detroit
Ontario

JB why is it always the unions fault. Detroit is empty because the big 3 automakers found out they could make even MORE profits by sending the work to other countries with a lower standard of living. Unless the autoworkers agreed to a pay scale comparable to offshore workers those plants were doomed. People in North America cannot live on what they pay workers in Mexico, Korea, etc. Telemarketers, (duct cleaning anyone?), are not unionized but we ship those jobs overseas, why, because we have a minimum wage law.

You will make excuses for everything :)
1) not me blaming Unions or spending crazy "democratics" in this case. Millions and millions of Americans and specifically Detroiters, or rather former residents do.

Question: Why would, or why might "auto workers" feel they need high pay?
Greed?
Maybe not greed, but over valued sense of self?
Maybe neither of the above, but maybe due to the combined effects of high cost of living? The more they have to pay for X, the more they want, the more they are taxed, the more they...

You will often/usually point or justify the high cost of X, as being due to A) education B) skills/demands of the job. Which is fine
But
That then places more burden on the lowly factory grunts...who demand more to keep up, the company then hikes the price of its widgets, and that continues, until everyone wants more. Yells for more and if they get more, it hits the lowly factory worker who demands more to keep up with inflation..

Until one day the "company" be it big like GM or Ford or small with 10 employees
closes it doors and looks for more affordable places to operate.

You do the same G.
You shop at Walmart
Look for ways to save on your vacations
and more.

Willing to bet, if you had a nanny or housekeeper these days, what with soaring prices for this/that and taxation and who was yelling for more.....
Youd find someone willing to do it for less. Do do it, if not directly with your housekeeper, your accountant maybe? Using HR block these days instead of someone charging $200/hr or maybe quickbooks........So what its ok for you to find ways to reduce cost.......what about that accountant your to cheap to pay?

Big business will always go to where they have the least overhead, to MAXIMIZE profits. That is why they are in business , their reason for being, ever increasing income for the few with shares in the company. The walmart family with billions, what harm would it ever do them, to pay their employees a couple of dollars an hour more, none whatsoever, they would not even notice one less zero on the bottom line.

Well that's true and surely there is a better way. Are you telling me, that you to don't do the same?
Do you shop at Luongo's or Loblaws, or No Frills.

Order anything online instead of brick and mortar mom and pop shops?
Why do you shop online now. Is it because brick and mortar mom/pop shops aren't unionized?

If contractor A) says $15,000 to replace the windows in your house and B) Says $12,000
Who you hiring?

Do you pay someone to do your taxes?
Accountant: $300
HR Block: $70
QuickBooks: $10

Curious why you wont defend the accountants right to a job and income.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

Big business will always go to where they have the least overhead, to MAXIMIZE profits. That is why they are in business , their reason for being, ever increasing income for the few with shares in the company. The walmart family with billions, what harm would it ever do them, to pay their employees a couple of dollars an hour more, none whatsoever, they would not even notice one less zero on the bottom line.

---

Who do you think owns GM? You never shop at Walmart?

Yes I do shop at wallmart, but I am on a fixed income..... Who owns GM, well 75% owned by institutional holdings ie. J.P.Morgan, Vangard, Berkshire Hathaway, you know the same folks who were bailed out of bankruptcy by the American government, ie , working stiffs.

I wonder.
if Half of America blames the 1% and Wall Street and half of America blames govt spending, this/that and love Donald.
Whose right?

Maybe both ?

One thing is for sure.
More and more and more people are shopping at WT, online and more ( see also online banking)
I wonder why.

And ultimately, doing so reduces the revenue (profits) for Loblaws, Heinz Canada, small shops who cant compete with Big Box or online store fronts, and many more. Which ultimately means.............

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

Yes I do shop at wallmart, but I am on a fixed income..... Who owns GM, well 75% owned by institutional holdings ie. J.P.Morgan, Vangard, Berkshire Hathaway, you know the same folks who were bailed out of bankruptcy by the American government, ie , working stiffs.

---

And who are the share holders of these firms? Union Pension plans? Mutual funds? So, you curse Walmart but shop there. I guess you are part of the problem as your shopping supports the Walmart Corporate business plan. There is nothing you buy at Walmart that can't be purchased elsewhere. You could choose to shop where there is a union and higher prices but that would mean a cut in your lifestyle. Hhhhmmm.......

So we can never get big business to own up , pay their share, make the world better-fairer, because we have seen the enemy, and they are US! GM last year had income of 9.7 billion and 2.8 billion PROFIT. So just maybe they keep Detroit viable and only make 2 billion last year , what would that cost JP.Morgan maybe 2 cents a share?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by terrym

And who are the share holders of these firms? Union Pension plans? Mutual funds? So, you curse Walmart but shop there. I guess you are part of the problem as your shopping supports the Walmart Corporate business plan. There is nothing you buy at Walmart that can't be purchased elsewhere. You could choose to shop where there is a union and higher prices but that would mean a cut in your lifestyle. Hhhhmmm.......

---

A couple of dollars more an hour for their employees would not hurt that walmart family one bit, they would not even notice that amount in their billions of dollars, that to me is greed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

A couple of dollars more an hour for their employees would not hurt that walmart family one bit, they would not even notice that amount in their billions of dollars, that to me is greed.

---

Greed or not they most certainly would notice. 2$ per hour for 2.2 million employees at say 15 hours per week represents $3.4 billion per year every year or about 12% of the net worth for any given family member every year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

A couple of dollars more an hour for their employees would not hurt that walmart family one bit, they would not even notice that amount in their billions of dollars, that to me is greed.

---

But you still support them.

I can't afford not to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Species8472

Greed or not they most certainly would notice. 2$ per hour for 2.2 million employees at say 15 hours per week represents $3.4 billion per year every year or about 12% of the net worth for any given family member every year.

---

That's assuming that it comes directly out of their pockets which it doesn't. It comes out of the business as a direct expense therefore is tax deductible. It costs them ZERO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Species8472

Greed or not they most certainly would notice. 2$ per hour for 2.2 million employees at say 15 hours per week represents $3.4 billion per year every year or about 12% of the net worth for any given family member every year.

---

I guess you would have already looked it up so what is each family member worth a year? Lowball and say it's 10 million I guess it would really hurt them to only make 9 million a year, on top of their net worth , which is likely in the billions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

That's assuming that it comes directly out of their pockets which it doesn't. It comes out of the business as a direct expense therefore is tax deductible. It costs them ZERO.

---

It may not be as black and white as i presented once tax implications are considered but it certainly cost a lot more than ZERO. If it was actually zero they would do it as there would only be upside benefits like good PR and happier emoyees.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Species8472

It may not be as black and white as i presented once tax implications are considered but it certainly cost a lot more than ZERO. If it was zero they woyld do it as there would only be upside benefits like good PR and happier emoyees.

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Maybe,but,most of them couldn't care less about that. It's not in their vocabulary or business lexicon.

The family is worth 149 BILLION or 24.8 Billion each. Yes a 2 dollar raise for their employees is really going to hurt. That my friend is the height of greed.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

The family is worth 149 BILLION or 24.8 Billion each. Yes a 2 dollar raise for their employees is really going to hurt. That my friend is the height of greed.

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Never said it wasn't. Just disagreeing with you about whether they would notice - they would. 3.4 BILLION per year would be noticed.

Be like you having 100 dollars worth of change and giving up a dime, notice maybe, but pretty heartless to care about that 10 cents, and it would not make one bit of difference in their lifestyle.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Be like you having 100 dollars worth of change and giving up a dime, notice maybe, but pretty heartless to care about that 10 cents.

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Percentage wise actually more like giving up $2 or $3 out of a 100.

OK lets call it like it is, 2 or 3 Billion out of 100 BILLION, would it make a difference in their life , not a chance. How about in the lives of their 2 million employees? Yup that's what I said, total greed. If there is someone watching up above, they will get their comeuppance eventually.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

they would not even notice

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Nothing I posted disagrees with anything you have stated other than this.

Are they greedy? - Sure.
Would their lives be materially impacted? - Not at all.
Would they notice? - Absolutely.

G. Couple things.

re GMs reported profits.
EPS?
RoC?

Oh, and have you seen the Sunshine list? It's out today.
total dollars for just those on it? 11 billion
growth? 4% (115,000 on it vs 111,000 last year)
Hydro 1 employees who no longer get reported.
would put the growth over 7%
/looks around the "real" world

where the GMs of the world, make things, grow economies

Where the GM's of the world reap huge profits , give CEO's giant bonuses, get bailed out by government, sack employees , leave cities and factories empty, move offshore to increase massive profits.

Where
unions drive up the cost of labour, governments drive up taxes and more. see ontario
and before you continue to spout about "profits" and solely "profits". Do some digging into many financial ratios. Be they EPS, ROC, VAR, Debt/equity, liquidity ratios, and more."Profits" don't tell the whole story.

Bailouts? Well yeah there's something to that. Not a big fan of them.but at the least some bailouts do save jobs, and all companies grow the economy.

Forgot to include.
consumers looking for lower cost products as well.

so could it be as I said above.
All of the above