Just got the list in the mail. No additional deer seals in 87, 82. Only additionals available in 78, 79, 85, 86 and 88 in around southern Ontario. Big surprise for 87.
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Just got the list in the mail. No additional deer seals in 87, 82. Only additionals available in 78, 79, 85, 86 and 88 in around southern Ontario. Big surprise for 87.
Haven't seen the info posted online yet. What's the start date for the application?
That is a huge surprise for 87! No additional shotgun seals I would imagine as well then? Wow, that will make us more selective this year for sure. Good thing I like to waterfowl as well. And from what I saw last year and from what I have seen this year, it is not warranted. But just my opinion based upon observations turkey hunting and driving around.
Yes. no shotgun tags.Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyT
Thanks for the heads up... Have you got a link?
I have the hard copy at home. I looked at the site and it is not posted yet. I guess with my last name being a "b" i got the mailing earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
I got that in the mail the other day as well, I think if you bought a tag in the past you will get one in the mail.
hmm... got the paperwork last year but missed the application date by a few hours and seals were sold out where I wanted. I wonder if I'll get the paperwork this year.
Thanks will check the mail tonight....Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonura
So last year in 87 there was 1100 additional deer seals available and this year there are none? The fact 87 was the higher amount of additional deer seals per area last year doesn't seem right that there is zero now (1100 last year vs 0 this year). I really hope this is a mistake.
I will triple check but pretty sure there is none. If you like you can pm your cell number and i will txt you a picture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
pbonura,Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonura
Lol. I wasn't doubting you at all or what is in the pamphlet. It seems odd that a WMU can have so many last year and zero this year without any step down between.
Dyth
I have friend who works for the city of hamilton and 87 had alot more deer than 79. Two additional bows tags and 2 additional gun tags in 79. Zero for 87.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
Just got mine as well. PB is correct. No mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
None for 80 this year either.
Yes. Called and actually called the mnr and switched my first choice to 87 from 79. They will have it on the web soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Species8472
Alot of deer in both 80 and 87 I'm absolutely puzzled as to why no additional tags...
Just got my info package in the mail today.....
If I am reading this right....... it looks like they posted 78 C D & E twice...
Glad I have a friend that has some land there as my traditional hunting WMU have no extra tags...
I wish I knew their rational behind the cuts
Yes exactly frank I'm wondering what the rationale/science is behind these tag cuts in certain wmu. I'm seeing tons of deer around and I know the deer had an easy winter in southern Ontario I really don't get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
Not posted twice. The first 500 for 78 CDE are "antlered or antlerless" and than there is a second block of 500 with a different hunt code that are "anterled only"Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
None in 47 or 48 this sucks.....
Scientific reason, none at all. The reason is easy. When all the one week a year hunters submit there surveys and complain there is no deer. I heard that same complaint 40 times last season. I seen lots of deer but put my time in. Ministry has no money to do actual counts. When the mass of shotgun hunters that get one week extremely out number deer hunters in general this happens. Most hunt 2 to 3 days.
I'm shocked by 80 too. Definetly no shortage of deer there last year and they had an easy winter.Quote:
Originally Posted by kokes
Lots of speculations but anyone really know how we might be able to find out how/why deer tags are calculated in each WMU.....Some transparency and accountability would be nice
Put in a call to the MNRF. it's a toll free number, get the info directly from the source.Quote:
Originally Posted by fratri
why are the guys who only hunt deer one week with a shotgun not "deer hunters" ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer G
Some truth in that; if you look at my camp, 3/4 of them would fill out a survey response with "did not see any deer"...I hunt the same bush and saw lots, shot one 45 minutes opening morn. Trail cams in the same bush showed lots of deer. But the majority sat and complained the deer numbers are way down because 'they' didn't see any.Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer G
And it doesn't help when the circumstances were a very hard winter the previous year, followed by a Fall hunt season where people reported not seeing deer. Immediate correlation is "hard winter killed too many deer".
The majority of people I know had terrible luck during the rifle hunt. It was the late-season bow hunters who actually saw signs of the rut, who actually saw deer. The deer around my place disappeared for most of November, but when they came back there were just as many.
During my few Turkey outings in 92B I seen many set's of multiple deer. In fact Deer out numbered Turkeys big time... lol
Last year was a strange year the deer went nocturnal and it stated that way all season. Lots on trail cam but I only had one come out in day lite.
Lots of deer in 94 and 92 but only one allowed per year.
This is troublesome...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer G
I'm kind of in the same boat, I have seem a lot of deer since the spring 2015 and our camp did well last year too. I don't think the winter 2013 and 2014 has decimated the herbs in 53, 46 and 60 and I have the feeling it doesn't take that long to get back to normal #s. I believe many huntesr complain about predation and winters because they are just not that good or seat at the wrong spot,,,Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
They are deer hunters that just show up hoping to see deer and do no prep or scouting. Let's face it 85% of deer hunters hunt 5 days a season.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Anyone expecting to see increased tags because of the mild winter is going to be disappointed. The MNR just doesn't work that fast. There isn't much science that goes into the process either. Basically, they go by voluntary hunter surveys and spring deer yard surveys done mostly by college students.
They also do not cut numbers as quickly as they should.Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
I know that the hard winters over the last few years hurt the population in Eastern Ontario. A lot of people here say that it is just the weekend hunters who do not see deer but why is that not an indicator of a population drop? If those same hunters saw 15 deer in a day 5 years ago but now see nothing that tells me that there are a lot less deer no matter which way you slice it.
We are finally seeing some deer thing spring, last spring there was very little and almost no tracks in the bush we had permission to hunt last fall. Numbers are not what they were out this way 10 years ago.
I hunted 47 hard last year ( last 10 days of archery).We had 6 in camp for the final 7 days.
We hung 1 and as a group we saw a total of 4.
brutal especially for the Loring yards.
While it's somewhat disappointing to know theres no additionals this year, it's also very welcome.
Between the much needed mild winter and a couple years of low harvest, hopefully they bounce back.
You're right about not cutting them back in time either. There seems to be about a two year lag between what's actually happening with deer numbers and what's available for tags. I know that around here they were selling additional tags for a few seasons after the bottom fell out on deer numbers. The bright side is a two year lag will allow the numbers to come back up for a while before additional tags are available again. More or less what JBen said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
There will be lots of new hunters complaining though about the lack of a dozen deer in their garage though.Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
When I started hunting 17 years ago deer numbers at our camp in Eastern Ontario were really good and numbers in SW Ontario were even better. Numbers dropped in 2 years in Eastern Ontario but numbers remained stable in SW Ontario and they kept trying to reduce numbers due to accidents and farm loses. Now the numbers in SW Ontario have stabilized and the guys who started hunting in the good times are complaining about doe tags and a lack of additional seals, I am just happy there are still huntable numbers.
We have to be careful, if we shoot all the does and take tons of deer when the numbers are not there we could run into the situation my dad speaks of back in the 70s or what we are experiencing now with moose.
Are you implying these hunters should lie and say they saw deer? I don't understand the point. If someone hunts a week a year and doesn't see any deer they shouldn't be lying on their reports just so we can all get more tags . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
I hunted with a bow and a rifle in 82A and 80 throughout the fall not just the controlled hunt. The numbers are down from the two extreme winters four years ago. The MNR is just really slow to react and the tags have been cut two years too late. I'm sure numbers are fine in the extreme southwest but not in central Ontario. It's the right decision just very delayed. Remember they haven't cut the antlerless tags as far as I know just the additonal seals. In some jurisdictions in Ontario there are no extra tags. One hunter =one deer.
WMU 66A used to have up to 7 additional tags, last year antlerless tags were at 38% chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanO
It is crazy how things can change and they have.
There have been plenty of cuts to antlerless tags in Central Ontario. A few of the areas that I hunt are down to 60 or 70% from 100% in the past couple of years. Again though, the cuts are late. Numbers have been way down in these areas for 5 years or so now.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanO
You're right GW. I do remember that thread now that you mention it. So nobody should be surprised the additional seals have been cut as well. The big surprise is WHAT TOOK SO LONG??? I hope the herd rebounds quickly and let's hope the MNR is quicker to reinstate additional seals than they were to cut the seals. It must be hard managing a herd with virtually anecdotal data.
been like that here (66A) for 6-7 yrs..Quote:
Originally Posted by DanO
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddy
No body implied that anybody should lie? It's just the truth. 10% of the deer hunters shoot 90% of the deer. It's been the same for 30 years which clearly most haven't been around for. The reality is the system used is flawed as there is no funding to pay for counts in every region.
"What took so long"Quote:
Originally Posted by DanO
puts on "sarcasm" hat.
Because lots of hunters are deer whisperers (they don't actually see lots but....) or lie on their returns so the MNR thinks there's a ton of deer in WMU x, and they can keep getting 2-3 tags each year.
Ive been hunting 47 now for 5 years. The guys I hunt with 15 years and the family member who owns the property and lives there day in and day out. Talk about seeing 20-40 deer a day each (do the math 7x7x10or 20) not many years ago. And each year I've been going (2010) we're seeing less and less, and as a group that's normally 6-8 in camp for 5-8 days, we didn't see 20 total in 2014 or 2015 let alone filling tags.
the guy who lives there sees the deer in the winter yards, was part of the feeding programs back in the day. Last spring he came across a good number of winter kill, but what really had him worried during the summer was a lack of fawns. He also runs rifle hunts. Last year for 2 weeks hard hunting they hung
THREE
so residents and migrators are/were way down. Hopefully there's more fawns this year.
and just incase.
one of the group was a writer for OOD, and is a highly known/regarded hunter. Has probably shot more deer in his life than many. Hardly weekend warriors or part of the 90%. He and his family who live there have been hunting the area since the 60s. His cousin, the land owner also runs 2 BMAs. They know the bush.
In early 2000 the group would tag out by mid week (last week of archery always) so the deer are in. The most we've hung as a group was 3. That was 2013.
I agree with DanO about the LONG LAG,and the comment-what took so long? I mentioned here 2 years ago,how hard the herd was hit in"my area"of interest in WM80 after the long winter AND the ice crust which came down in Dec 2013 and stayed for months.
Now-i have no idea how-but somehow it would be great if US hunters(we are the beneficial or the losers)and the MNR(authority and "manager" of the herd)would be able to share our observations,which would perhaps take away the LAG,so timeliness of decision making would improve. We would be able to "have a say"yet we would "not to cut the limb off,we are sitting on "either.
What's the big deal one deer a year is all we need .
Greed will kill hunting, no matter what the species is.
Be thankful we don't have to go into a draw for a deer tag.
Oh ya, it will not be long, before they figure they can make us pay to go into a draw, just to increase their revenue.
Historically 82a has had 1 or 2 additionals available per hunter but last season and this season none are available. I have no problem with this except last year there were 6100 anterless tags and this year there are 6300. Success rate of essentially 100% for those that apply. If there was that much concern about numbers I'd be happier with far fewer "doe" tags and a number of "antlered only" additionals for the bow season.
As it stands I have traditionally purchased 2 to 3 additionals plus my primary. Typically the additionals were spread between 78CDE, 80 and 82a. With 80 and 82a off the list (for additionals) it looks like I am going to travel further west this year to 85 and 86. Not necessarily a bad thing as it means I'm going to meet some new people and see some new territory. Plan is to do some google earth recon and than head out on a couple of weekends and knock on doors. I am going to bring my excavator with me and offer any interested parties machine time in trade for permission. It's going to be more work but I think it should work out in the end.
And for what it is worth I am seeing more deer this year on camera in 82a than I have since I bought my camp there in 2009. Also it if the number of blossoms are any indicator it's also going to be a bumper crop of apples at the camp this year.
Actually most of us don't need any deer. I just like it better than buying red meat from the store and in order to feed my family for the year it takes 3 or 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by JUDGE
I hunt 82A and can confirm this. Deer numbers are way down and have been down for 4 or 5 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanO
I can only blame the obvious, the years of multiple extra doe tags decimated the herd - I think this is exactly what MNR wanted.
Thankfully this year MNR pulled all the extra tags although probably 3 years too late.
Hopefully the populations will come back in 4 or 5 years.
What took so long?
IMO, it didn't! In 46, 53 and 60 we had two harch winters (13/14 lots of snow and 14/15 cold) and an high number of predator at the same time.
For the 2015 season, so right after, and for those WMU they cut the tags by 80% for 46, more than 50% for 53 and didn't for 60. They also took extra tags away. They cut tags in many other WMU that same year and again this year. Last summer I saw lots of does with two fawns that I was able to see again this spring so we are ding well. Another thing to consider, I'm no expert but maybe we needed a good kill to start fresh with the strong just like nature always did... I have seen a lot less coyote too this winter...
Anyway, I'm not too sure how the MNR wasn't fast enough?!? Sounds to me there are lots of wannabe that will always complain and pretend they could do better but it's not about what you could do....
So... because some of us noticed a big drop in deer numbers long before the cuts came we're complaining wannabe hunters? Nice. Maybe the timing was right in your area, but that isn't the norm.Quote:
Originally Posted by seabast
To be clear, I never said we didn't get our deer, they were just harder to find. I can pretty much guarantee you that a guy who spends a good portion of the season in the bush knows a lot more about what's going on with the deer herd in the area than the "experts" sitting behind desks in the MNR.
Historically? Additional tags have not been around for that long and 100% chance on antlerless tags is a very new thing too. I have been hunting deer for 17 years, I remember when the first additional tags came out and it floored us, I mean, you could take 2 deer without party hunting? It was a crazy concept.Quote:
Originally Posted by Species8472
I didn't mean to say Wannabe hunters, I meant to say Wannabe Complainers..... You know, the ones you are probably working with that always complain out management issues but never about their lack of skills or working....Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
It sounds like your area is much different from a lot of others. Most hunters are complaining about the two harsh winters we got from 2013 to 2015. In your case you are talking about.... What exactly? Too much hunting pressure, predation, else?
Sorry for the misunderstanding...Quote:
Originally Posted by seabast
I primarily hunt in 73, 74A and 74B. In recent years coyotes have done a number on the deer herd as well as us hunters. All of these areas offered additional tags up until around 2014 and if I set things up right, I could usually end up with my main tag plus two or three additionals for bow and muzzleloader season. We hunters got pretty good at filling these extra tags and IMO the MNR was about 2 or 3 years late in cutting them out. Probably because they didn't want to lose the money and also because they don't have accurate information most of the time.
I'm not complaining about the situation, just pointing out to those who are upset about not seeing additional tags back because of the mild winter that it doesn't usually work that fast.
I started hunting well before the days of additional tags so to me they're just a bonus if they're around.
In the context of deer hunting history it is not that long but this is the 14th season with additionals and the reference is meant to be within the context of the additional seal program as that's what this thread is about. Either way that's long enough for me to consider it history. Hell I have a hard time remembering what I had for breakfast. Doesn't have to be generations for it to be history.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
When I started hunting deer the numbers were high but when my father started they would be lucky to cut a track for 8 guys in a whole week of hunting just south east of Algonquin park. I do not want to see the days not not seeing any sign, I would rather they reduce the number of deer tags drop substantially rather than not have the chance to hunt them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Species8472
are there any additional seals available for 78A???
Nope, CDE only.Quote:
Originally Posted by mans9110
It's interesting to discuss with someone from another part of the province. I thought we were all in the same boat but different place, different issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
I also get invited to a bow camp between Christmass and new year for the past 5 years in 76A. In 2013 it started to get really cold mid November and we got a lot of snow early in December, been hunting in a deeryard it was a slaughter from us and the coyotes. The next December was still good too but not the same, obviously last year was terrible. But the MNR cut the tag by a lot on 76A in 2015, so again I htink they did a good job.
I have been chasing them for 35 years and agree. If you refer back to my earlier post you will see I expressed concern over the crazy number (6300) of antlerless tags available for 82a.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
That being said I do like the opportunities afforded by additional seals when appropriate but not at the expense of the resource.
The extra antlerless tags though is still only 1 deer per hunter, it is just a validation of that game seal. I think there is concern for the guys who have tons of time to hunt and are good at it. I have a friend who shoots 2-3 deer every single year on additional tags but then complains about the guys who go hunting in a gang of 20 and shoot 20 deer in a week. He still has a larger impact on the deer herd than that group of 20 when you look at it in a per person situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Species8472
If you look at how the additional tags are setup, one guy can apply for an antlerless tag in 65 then get an addional in 86, 80, 89, 88, and on and on and on. I do not know that they actually have a limit on tags someone can have except in one WMU. This leads to hunters moving to other WMUs to shoot deer where they have the opportunity to shoot more animals, even if it is bucks only.
In a lot of places I would be just fine with antlerless at 100% but one deer only per hunter, much like it was in 2000.
My guess is that areas with known significant "yards" get closer attention and more accurate tag allotments from year to year. I was involved in a couple of deer yard surveys in the mid nineties in college and when we were done our reports the information was compiled and went to the MNR. Some was accurate but some students just partied for 3 days in the bush and fudged data. I suppose the MNR does the best they can with their limited resources.Quote:
Originally Posted by seabast
I have no issue with your buddy taking 2 or 3 as long as the population can support it (that's what I do as well). Him complaining about others though is ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
There is a limit in the regs, you are only allowed your primary plus 6 additionals for a total of 7 province wide. At that point you are cut off regardless of whether there are seals available. I think if they got rid of, or drastically reduced the antlerless tags but still allowed some additional buck tags we would see a dramatic increase in numbers. That's completely anecdotal though as I'm no biologist.
I think part of the issue from the hunter's end is that the MNR is not necessarily trying to increase/decrease numbers or serve hunters. They are trying for some magic # that theoretically balances carrying capacity, crop/property damage, vehicle accidents and hunting. Whether they achieve this or not is another entire issue.
The MNR are always about 5 years behind with that. It seems like a couple bad winters will not change the numbers until years later and the same seems to occur on the rebound.Quote:
Originally Posted by Species8472
I am with you on the antlered only additionals but it seems counter intuitive to the people making the rules who are not biologist but rather Toronto politicians.
Speak for yourself. My family (1 adult male (who loves his venison), 1 adult female, 2 kids (5 and 2)) wouldn't be able to live off one deer for a year (especially since the big ones are usually inaccessible). I don't hunt for horns, I hunt to put meat in the freezer so my family's grocery bill is as low as it can be.Quote:
Originally Posted by JUDGE
I don't think it is greedy to take two or three deer if the population can handle it in order to feed your family (or another family which is in financial troubles like they do in some US states) and what I see in 87 tells me it can. We have a population in the Dundas Valley Conservation Area which is now hunted by Natives under treaty law (which have never taken their quota) so I know the deer numbers are high in our area due to a few factors (a big one is the fact getting permission to hunt is extremely tough, I have heard more no's to hunting because the landowner doesn't want the deer hunted than there was someone already hunting the property.).
In my little corner of 87 is just beside the Dundas valley and I have noticed much fewer deer the last 2 seasons as the native hunt is having an impact and the coyotes seem to be up in number as well. A few years back I would buy 3 additional tags and almost always use them as my family would eat 3 to 4 deer by the next October but I also realize the deer #s were too high for the landscape and think they are now closer to the natural carrying capacity.
I am very surprised by the lack of extra seals in 87 based on the past availability but in hindsight it supports my observations having casually counted significantly fewer deer here this year over last year and also compared to Michigan when driving.
I hope they do a re-count and some become available.
I think the coyotes smashing the fawns in the spring and taking down deer in the deeper snow has had more of an impact on the deer herd than the native hunt. The hunt has been going on since 2011 with the first year having a quota of 40 (which 31 deer were taken) and then the next 2 years having a quota of 80 per year but only 37 and 30 deer taken then in 2014 & 2015 the quota was reduced to 60 deer with 35 deer taken in 2014 (I haven't heard how many were taken in 2015 but one could make an educated guess).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter John
In 2009, an aerial population was conducted and the herd was pegged at 550 deer and then in 2013 the population was almost halved to 266. I am not saying the native hunt didn't contribute but there were other factors (I would say more significant) which lead to the herd dropping that fast.
Doing a re-count and making some seals available would mean the MNR has extra money to go and do a re-count and also more money to notify every hunter in the province that there are seals available. I would say based on the MNR's budget that will be unlikely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marker
All of the above are factors for sure Dyth but I am not to sure how much stock I put in to what the natives claim to have harvested. ;) and I know after the brutal winter 2 years back almost no fawns were seen on my trail Cameras that run year round so the doe's likely reabsorbed their fetuses do to the harsh winter.
Ok here come the name calling - was wondering when that was going to start - "Wannabe that will always complain" ? What does this mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by seabast
Can't some guys have a discussion respecting everyone's opinion without doing this or assuming you know better?
Many of us have been hunting deer for over 30 years and know our areas and deer herds pretty good and know a trend when we see one.
Not complaints - facts in my opinion.
Just some background..this is some info on deer density numbers that the MNR works with when it opens a cull (extra tags).
From 2010..that is when we stopped getting extra tags here...it's been one tag and about 40% chance of an antlerless tag every year since.Quote:
Social issues such as crop damage, and high vehicle collision rates are usually associated with deer densities in the range of 5-15 deer/km2. At densities of 10 deer/km2 or more, deer may exceed the carrying capacity of their habitat. It is then common to have problems with forest regeneration, loss of plant diversity,
and impacts on other wildlife species. In suburban areas, densities over 50 deer/km2 may cause extensive damage to gardens and ornamental/landscaping vegetation. Densities of 100 deer/km2 or more have been experienced in suburban areas of the U.S.
In recent years, Ontario’s deer densities have increased into the “problem” ranges referred to above. Many agricultural regions in southern Ont. have between 4-10 deer/km2 of deer habitat, while shield units south of Lake Nipissing have densities between 1-5 deer/km2. Densities over 25-30 deer/km2 have been experienced in
some provincial parks (e.g., Pinery and Rondeau Provincial Parks). A density of >100 deer/km2 has been noted at the Sifton Bog in London, Ontario.
So what is good for the hunters...well high densities because the will be extra tags.Quote:
When deer populations were at their peak in eastern Ontario, deer densities got as high as 12 to 14 deer/km2 in suitable habitat. The 2009 data shows that deer densities have declined to an average of 2.5 deer/km2 in the WMU’s in eastern Ontario. Our target population is from 5 to 8 deer/km2. This target comes from the province’s Cervid Ecological Framework, a provincial policy document that guides the management of deer, moose and elk in Ontario.
But high population densities are not good for the deer ecologically and it creates human-deer conflicts, so the MNR is mandated to keep their number down.
A rather seesaw battle.
edit add; I should clarify, that from 2006-2009 it was a free for all here. Hunters able to get up to 6 tags each..some camps were hanging 25+ deer on their poles...it sure drove down the population, which was what the MNR required to get the density issue under control.
Guys just got used to it and now that we're down to the required 5-8 deer/km2 they aren't happy.
Good info Mike.
To provide some context for those who don't work in km^2 - 1 km^2 equals 247 acres.
That's about right; I have a few trail cam pics of 4-5 deer (doe/fawns) at a time around a bait pile...and I hunt 200 acres bush. And add the Bucks and this area is pretty close to the 8 deer/km2.
My pure guess Species is that the yards get "attention" if you will because they could I would argue be the peverbial canary.
47 also gets (it's down this year) 6000 antler less. Only a couple places in the province get that many. We hunt pretty much the heart of the Loring yards. No idea how far deer migrate from, but I imagine if the Loring yards are way down, then the outlying areas are way down.Come spring poof they are gone, back to wherever, until the snow flies the next year. So if a person has limited resources, keeping the pulse of the yards, would be a good barometer of how herds are doing further away.
either way, not sure why reducing additionals bothers people. It should lead to more deer, and better days ahead. The alternative is over estimating herds health/density, continued hard pressure and then who knows........better to bar the doors than not.
Agree that yards are a good indicator with the exception being SW ontario where yarding behaviour is non-existent or very minimal and/or only for very brief periods.
As for reductions, I am all for it when needed. Otherwise I am equally happy to fill additionals as it makes for a nice long season and makes good eating.
Species8472 Im from 85 and yes we do have extra tags but we shouldn't have are deer numbers have gone down by at least 65 to 70% from there high in 2009 and 2010 I used to see winter yards of 200 plus in my family's bush now we are lucky if we see 30 and we have took it on to are selfs to not shot does and fawns the last 2 season so when I see someone posting about coming to 85 to hunt because they weren't smart enough to know when they're deer are in trouble and stop buying extra tags don't come here and hunt are deer that are all ready over hunted and number are way down its people thinking oh they have extra tags must have a lot of deer so I'm going to hunt there cause we weren't smart enough to know when to stop shooting all are deer I was one of the worst I used to buy every tag I could for a couple of years we where a load 7 and I would fill them all young and stupid now I shot mature bucks and if the Bush I'm hunting has 5 or more does then I will take one doe if the farmer ask me too
How does the MNRF know how many deer are taken each year by means of hunting.... Maybe my memory isn't too good but deer harvest report for every tag purchased doesn't need to be called in...(calling in isn't mandatory for every tag/seal purchased) so if that's the case, how do they know how many deer where taken from a hunter(s)?
They gather the information from the Questionnaires that hunters are asked (not mandatory) to complete every year. The problem is not enough guys do their part. I was at an MNR deer seminar a few years back and the biologists told the crowd that only 6%...yes that's right 6% of the questionnaires were returned.
Mind you that was before on-line reporting and it has probably gotten much better....but for all the finger pointing towards the MNR for not knowing what's going on...they sure don't get much help from those doing the pointing.
That's (just 6%) is surprising Mike. I know some resent the feeling that the MNR relies on us so much. I've never minded, I view it as doing my part, helping versus anything else. Nor am I one to assume a good percentage will lie (claim more or less).
We have so many different areas in the province. What 4 or 5 different climate zones let alone habitat/geography. Then we have agricultural areas like SW Ontario. Where we are really talking about 2 different worlds. Drives me "nuts" when people who live in the land of plenty, don't appreciate the diffulcties( ?) of hunting the big woods of central Ontario and say hunt camps that employ it's brown it's down, or use dogs to push etc etc.
Try micro managing all that and 100 units. Let alone Moose or Walleye or Wolves. We level a lot of criticism towards the MNR. Sure they can do "better". Who wants to be first in line and volunteer another 3,000/year in taxes.
6%
:(
Make is mandatory, if you did not fill in your surveys you cannot get a license the next year until you fill in the surveys.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
If they want credible data they should make it mandatory to check in the carcass. There's enough staff warming chairs in the MNR that could be deployed in the field a few weeks a year to man check stations. I bet many have never seen a big game animal up close. Quebec has mandatory check ins and it is one tool that certainly hasn't hurt their game management.
Honestly will have to say this comment was not appropriate. I hunt 87 and 79 and each wmu is really really hard to predict. You can not discourage someone from hunting your area because you do not agree with them. Give your head a shake. Each wmu has pockets and blank statements on a whole really do not apply unless you have permission to every property in that wmu.Quote:
Originally Posted by giby
HJ, all I was trying to do was simply show that while the native hunt is a contributing factor in reducing the deer herd in the valley, the deer herd had dropped by half with only 2 hunts in (approx. 60 deer taken out) so the official hunt helped but it wasn't the only factor. I would say the deer population took two big hits in the past 2 years: brutal winter 2 years ago helped the yotes smash the adults and the bucks didn't have a solid recovery because of the snow and last year where everything was so bloody warm, I would imagine there was a lower successful percentage of breeding because of the lack of movement through the day by the does; however, any successful bred does had an easier winter than in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter John
You know I think this post embodies what is wrong with some guys in our hunting fraternity. A hunter who took complete advantage of the additional deer seals and now is whinging that the population in his area isn't where it used to be and that other hunters shouldn't try to get additional deer seals in a system which is open to all hunters in the province for his WMU so no one else can shot "his deer" because he now has reformed his ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by giby
I'm a heading to 85 :)
https://media0.giphy.com/media/LxklVjgSNph2U/giphy.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by skeeter1
Maybe we can carpool.:joker:
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Originally Posted by Dythbringer
Those numbers are hog wash. I live there and seen more deer harvested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Species8472
joe can can I carpool with ya as well? I'll split on gas and even drag your deer out of the woods for ya...
Anytime buddy. You going to Boofest this year?Quote:
Originally Posted by kokes
Hogwash or not, they are the official numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer G
I have to say I'm shocked with going from 1000+ to 0 just like that in 87, but hopefully it results in a net gain for future years. I usually just try for a buck until the shotgun week and then try to get an additional tag for a doe after the rut, but I guess this year I'll have to really make the one count and hope the bucks are as predictable as they have been in previous years.
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Originally Posted by Dythbringer
And the liberals are the official goverment. Lol
there is still 1500 tags available through the draw in 87 . Are you saying there was 1000+ tags extra last year?
Yes, last year there were (if I remember correctly) 1,500 additional tags in 87....this year zero (0) additional tags available....Quote:
Originally Posted by Seel's
something doesnt make senseQuote:
Originally Posted by fratri
last year there were 1500 or 1000 additional seals and one additional gun tag. This year 0.Quote:
Originally Posted by COYHUNTER
Even the employee at the Service Ontario in Guelph seemed to think this was a mistake for WMU 87
I purchased an antlerless tag for 91B and understand i can shoot a buck anywhere in Ontario with a bow. I have been accepted into the controlled gun hunt for 87B. I have to used my bow tag. Can i purchase a tag for the controlled gun hunt, or do I have to hunt with someone else that has a tag?
no additionals for 87bQuote:
Originally Posted by Twodogs
Don't think there are any additional tags for 91 so you will have to party huntQuote:
Originally Posted by Twodogs
I am in the same boat. I used my tag on a nice 6 point buck on Oct 22nd in 92B. Total stand time 5hrs. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Twodogs
I have a controlled tag for 92B & can party hunt only if my group allows it (not looking good). The lack of additional controlled hunt tags in 92B is really getting on my nerves... :(
We had the same in 80. No additionals at all. Went from 1200 last year to 0 this year