Personal ethics, laws and hating on other hunters

I have seen a few threads recently where someone was asking a question about a 100% legal practice that involved hunting and was attacked for their personal ethics on the matter at the same time as other posts with blatantly illegal practices being considered totally acceptable by others on the forum.

There was another thread where one guy was asking why the posting rate has gone down and or the quality of the posts has diminished.

I would ascertain that people just getting into hunting or a different aspect of hunting are sick and tired of being the brunt of abusive by posters whose ethics are different than their own.

I speak to the use of buckshot for deer, penetration testing of ammunition, turkey hunting on the roost, grouse hunting on the ground, duck hunting from a canoe, bow hunting at "X" range, etc.

We are a fraternity of hunters, we are a very minimal spec of the population in North America and we should be standing up for all legal methods of hunting and all legal practices. If you choose not to hunt deer with dogs then fine, you should choose not to hunt with dogs but when someone asked the best breed to use keep out of the conversation, don't come on and say that it is not ethical to chase the deer and you only screw up the other guys hunt.

For all those who keep coming on and saying how inexperienced I am at hunting or at life, etc, you have no clue who I am. To a very small group of Eastern Ontario hunters on this forum who have met me outside of the forum you know who I am and how I live. You know my challenges when it comes to hunting time, family time and work requirements. You do not criticize me for not spending 50 weeks a year in the field and talk to me about the weeks we were able to make it out. You ask me questions about what I may have more knowledge of and give your experiences and pass along your knowledge of what you are more knowledgeable in.

I would like to continue being a member of the forum that supports those new hunters and help build their experience and I realize that I will always be learning when it comes to these sorts of things.

Lets keep things fair and civil and move along.

Yup pretty much agree with you.
When discussing on an open forum one should adhere to the highest standards. I think of it like being in school. The teacher sets the highest standard and expectation for their students because once they leave the class room most fall to a lower level. For those that want to bend the rules I'd suggest a pm on how to do it otherwise on the open forum at least give the illusion that we follow all rules to the letter. For those that choose to knock a legal activity don't.

fox, you forgot a couple I have been accused of. Keep in mind the follow is all legal. Fish to big, fish to small and my personal favourite, took to long to get limit. This is why I don't post pictures anymore. I didn't even come back to this forum for almost 2 years as people don't read what you do post or don't care and give their opinion when it was clearly stated in the post not wanting to do certain things, but all the replies to my question were do this, which was exactly what I said I didn't want to do up front to stop suggestions that I wasn't going to do. There are some very helpful people here, but a few just can't help themselves. It like this on all forums, so guess you just have to live with it.

X2 Fox, as long as it is legal go for it. Look at it from other hunters eyes, physical ability, hunting time, experience and so on and not just yours.

Right On Right On Right On

Like mentioned it's a public forum. Everyone has a different opinion some will agree with others,while others will agree with a different group. When you have a large group it's hard for everyone to have the same opinion or agree on the same things.

Look at a 12 person jury some times they just don't agree on the same things.

If we were all the same life would kinda be boring would it not. Since its a public forum there will be all kind of things said some will agree and other won't. But since its public we will all have to deal with different thoughts of what people have. It's only the web take it with a grain of salt.

For one I don't like keeping the jumbos I know many who love them . I will let them go and keep the 9s 10s and 11s those are the one I like. But any way I'm off to see if the jumboes are in yet lol. Maybe there will be some nice eaters for me to brings home for lunch tomorrow.

Piece out and remember it's only the web if you don't like it ,well that's ok cuz someone else might. Don't take it heart it's only the internet


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"We are a fraternity of hunters"

Except for the 'citiot' hunters Fox?

Forum going sideways was brought up several time lately ,and You are absolutely right-we as forum members can and perhaps should do a better job of respecting each others!
Doing this while understanding , E-way of communicating is always easier then in person,so many ppl can say many things.Sometimes they /we come across wrong way,perhaps on purpose,perhaps because reading an E sentence is open to interpretation.
One great way of communication perhaps is avoiding criticizam of others,and this is done best way, if it goes both ways..........
At the end we shall however understand,that people do have opinions,they say it,and they stand up for it.As long as that opinion is"reasonably"respectful as much as them-I-or You = we all have a right to say our opinion.

One thing I will say I never worry about anti hunters, we really don't need to worry about them.

Hunters will very easily destroy themselves and their sport and the writing is on the wall.

Attachment 36910
This about sums it up,I think.

If you can't say anything nice......move on!!

One rule that I have tried to follow both in my personal life and at work:

If you wouldn’t say it to a room full of 500 people, don’t type it and hit Send.

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Originally Posted by Fox

We are a fraternity of hunters, we are a very minimal spec of the population in North America and we should be standing up for all legal methods of hunting and all legal practices. If you choose not to hunt deer with dogs then fine, you should choose not to hunt with dogs but when someone asked the best breed to use keep out of the conversation, don't come on and say that it is not ethical to chase the deer and you only screw up the other guys hunt.

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There are some "legal" practices that deserve condemnation. The law might be an (expletive deleted) but it doesn't mean I have to be one too because of some "fraternity."

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

One thing I will say I never worry about anti hunters, we really don't need to worry about them.

Hunters will very easily destroy themselves and their sport and the writing is on the wall.

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Please elaborate GW, this post peaked my interest. If you wanna pm me I am cool with that if you wanna avoid the wrath.

Genuinely interested

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Well said Fox. The one thing that really grinds my gears is people telling someone their opinion is wrong. Lol, its an opinion, not a statement of fact, therefore it is not wrong just because it differs from yours. I think people, being people, have faults and have good days and bad days. It being a public forum, everyone has posts they regret and posts they feel strongly about. Just be respectful of others and convey your message thoughtfully. This forum is an excellent source of info and hope it continues to be for a long time. We are on this earth for such a short period of time, be happy and enjoy every moment you are here. Our days, good or bad, are all part of the grand life experience.

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Originally Posted by Fox

I have seen a few threads recently where someone was asking a question about a 100% legal practice that involved hunting and was attacked for their personal ethics on the matter at the same time as other posts with blatantly illegal practices being considered totally acceptable by others on the forum.

There was another thread where one guy was asking why the posting rate has gone down and or the quality of the posts has diminished.

I would ascertain that people just getting into hunting or a different aspect of hunting are sick and tired of being the brunt of abusive by posters whose ethics are different than their own.

I speak to the use of buckshot for deer, penetration testing of ammunition, turkey hunting on the roost, grouse hunting on the ground, duck hunting from a canoe, bow hunting at "X" range, etc.

We are a fraternity of hunters, we are a very minimal spec of the population in North America and we should be standing up for all legal methods of hunting and all legal practices. If you choose not to hunt deer with dogs then fine, you should choose not to hunt with dogs but when someone asked the best breed to use keep out of the conversation, don't come on and say that it is not ethical to chase the deer and you only screw up the other guys hunt.

For all those who keep coming on and saying how inexperienced I am at hunting or at life, etc, you have no clue who I am. To a very small group of Eastern Ontario hunters on this forum who have met me outside of the forum you know who I am and how I live. You know my challenges when it comes to hunting time, family time and work requirements. You do not criticize me for not spending 50 weeks a year in the field and talk to me about the weeks we were able to make it out. You ask me questions about what I may have more knowledge of and give your experiences and pass along your knowledge of what you are more knowledgeable in.

I would like to continue being a member of the forum that supports those new hunters and help build their experience and I realize that I will always be learning when it comes to these sorts of things.

Lets keep things fair and civil and move along.

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I hope everyone on the forum reads these posts. Well said gentlemen and ladies, we are a very small group and at times must stick together. Yes we can disagree but in the end we are all outdoorsmen and outdoorswomen.

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Originally Posted by Mark-OODMag

I hope everyone on the forum reads these posts. Well said gentlemen and ladies, we are a very small group and at times must stick together. Yes we can disagree but in the end we are all outdoorsmen and outdoorswomen.

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That's not right according to troodough, we're outdoorspeople, lol.

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Originally Posted by Fisherman

That's not right according to troodough, we're outdoorspeople, lol.

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Actually to the Liberals,we're knuckle-draggin',baby eating,blood thirsty neanderthals. Just wait for it......

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Actually to the Liberals,we're knuckle-draggin',baby eating,blood thirsty neanderthals. Just wait for it......

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I refute that description. I am a proud knuckle dragging Cro-Magnon, not a frew-frew Neanderthal!

Good reminder thanks Fox.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

There are some "legal" practices that deserve condemnation.

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This is fair. I recall shortly before the ban on the spring bear hunt, John Kerr (who was OOD's Managing Editor since time immemorial) wrote an editorial reminding readers that if we as hunters do not have ethical debates, others will have them for us.

But this tendency to jump on people who post pics (especially of fish), or accuse others of being slob hunters, etc., is really not helpful.

There's room for respectful debate on things like buckshot for deer.

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Originally Posted by welsh

This is fair. I recall shortly before the ban on the spring bear hunt, John Kerr (who was OOD's Managing Editor since time immemorial) wrote an editorial reminding readers that if we as hunters do not have ethical debates, others will have them for us.

But this tendency to jump on people who post pics (especially of fish), or accuse others of being slob hunters, etc., is really not helpful.

There's room for respectful debate on things like buckshot for deer.

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We agree that we need to have the discussions among ourselves and do so respectfully.

But that isn't what the OP wants. He doesn't even want the debate. He is demanding we defend any and all hunting practices providing they are legal and stay of discussions on subjects that we believe are unethical.

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Originally Posted by Fox

We are a fraternity of hunters, we are a very minimal spec of the population in North America and we should be standing up for all legal methods of hunting and all legal practices.

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No one should be expected to "stand up for" what they regard as unethical practices nor should anyone attempt to suppress their opinions by declaring they are part of some so-called "fraternity."

This all sounds wonderful Fox, but when it comes to who these so-called abusive posters are, I think maybe you should be looking a little closer to home, or in the mirror for that matter.

Practice what you're preaching here a little more and maybe you'll be a little more respected in turn.

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If something is legal , and you do not like it, work to change the rules, but do not complain when others follow them. They have done nothing wrong.:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

We agree that we need to have the discussions among ourselves and do so respectfully.

But that isn't what the OP wants. He doesn't even want the debate. He is demanding we defend any and all hunting practices providing they are legal and stay of discussions on subjects that we believe are unethical.


No one should be expected to "stand up for" what they regard as unethical practices nor should anyone attempt to suppress their opinions by declaring they are part of some so-called "fraternity."

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I agree Badenoch and support your opinion. A recent woodcock thread debated whether or not it was legal to train a pointing breed during the nesting period(ethical). Some did not agree and described what they did instead during the nesting period. Based on my personal ethics I would not, even though the current law doesn't prohibit it. The conversation was civil and could have easily continued with more debate but it didn't..Sometimes we need to just walk away.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

If something is legal , and you do not like it, work to change the rules, but do not complain when others follow them. They have done nothing wrong.:thumbup:

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In the hunting regulations there are things that are legal but would be reasonably be considered wrong and things that are illegal that would otherwise be perfectly acceptable. The OP wants us to "stand up" for anything that is legal whether it is wrong or not.

It is also perfectly acceptable to vigourously condemn bad behavior even if allowed under the law.

If it something legal to do, then I would say that it is only your opinion, that it is wrong. What gives you the right to, ' vigorously condemn' someone following the law, based solely on your opinion? Not saying you have to defend said laws but to condemn others for following them, seems presumptuous.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

There are some "legal" practices that deserve condemnation. The law might be an (expletive deleted) but it doesn't mean I have to be one too because of some "fraternity."

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Can you provide examples of legal practices which deserve condemnation?

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

I agree Badenoch and support your opinion. A recent woodcock thread debated whether or not it was legal to train a pointing breed during the nesting period(ethical). Some did not agree and described what they did instead during the nesting period. Based on my personal ethics I would not, even though the current law doesn't prohibit it. The conversation was civil and could have easily continued with more debate but it didn't..Sometimes we need to just walk away.

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yellow dog,

I thought that the Migratory Birds Regulation does prohibit disturbing the nests of migratory birds under General Prohibitions Section 6 Part a. Not that I am trying to reopen the debate or be uncivil but I think the law is fairly clear unless you are authorized by permit.

Dyth

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

If it something legal to do, then I would say that it is only your opinion, that it is wrong. What gives you the right to, ' vigorously condemn' someone following the law, based solely on your opinion? Not saying you have to defend said laws but to condemn others for following them, seems presumptuous.

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Like old duck blinds in a marsh?

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Originally Posted by onelessarrow

Like old duck blinds in a marsh?

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Exactly like that, .... I have called the MNRF and it is totally against the law to leave duck blinds on public land once that waterfowl season is over. To quote a Ministry spokesperson, 'those activities on Crown land are temporary in nature and equipment such as blinds must be removed at the end of the hunting season. Not removing a blind is a violation of the Public Lands Act.' The Act says if convicted , the person could face a fine of $10,000. I condemnd someone for breaking the law. I want people to follow the law whether they agree with it or not. If not , work to change them but don't make up your own rules.....So onelessarrow what is your point about the blinds?

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Exactly like that, .... I have called the MNRF and it is totally against the law to leave duck blinds on public land once that waterfowl season is over. To quote a Ministry spokesperson, 'those activities on Crown land are temporary in nature and equipment such as blinds must be removed at the end of the hunting season. Not removing a blind is a violation of the Public Lands Act.' The Act says if convicted , the person could face a fine of $10,000. I condemnd someone for breaking the law. I want people to follow the law whether they agree with it or not. If not , work to change them but don't make up your own rules.....So onelessarrow what is your point about the blinds?

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Some pretty lofty soapbox preachin’ Going on there ! Are you saying you have never broken a law????? I call BS on that one.,,,,just sayin’.

You slam people every opportunity you get on here. Spare me your BS.

Don't be silly of course I have, any major ones, no. How can you say it is wrong to follow the law, or for wanting others to follow the law as well? Why would you give someone grief for following the law? Just wanted OLA to explain why the blind comment, it IS against the law to leave them on crown land, don't agree with that, then change the law , just don't ignore it, because you do not agree with it.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Don't be silly of course I have, any major ones, no. How can you say it is wrong to follow the law, or for wanting others to follow the law as well? Why would you give someone grief for following the law? Just wanted OLA to explain why the blind comment, it IS against the law to leave them on crown land, don't agree with that, then change the law , just don't ignore it, because you do not agree with it.

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Totally agree about the land use. We see old trailers, camps etc left on crown land in NW Ontario all the time ! The MNRF doesn’t seem to police that issue much.

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Originally Posted by onelessarrow

You slam people every opportunity you get on here. Spare me your BS.

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I don't recall slamming anyone for following the law. Not my style. Back to this thread. I have good ethics. I encourage people to hunt. I like other hunters. I dislike other hunters who do not follow the rules. No need to dislike anyone who obeys the hunting regulations as written. Do not make up your own laws. Simple enough?

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Totally agree about the land use. We see old trailers, camps etc left on crown land in NW Ontario all the time ! The MNRF doesn’t seem to police that issue much.

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I think the reason for that is the lack of manpower and money .

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

I agree Badenoch and support your opinion. A recent woodcock thread debated whether or not it was legal to train a pointing breed during the nesting period(ethical). Some did not agree and described what they did instead during the nesting period. Based on my personal ethics I would not, even though the current law doesn't prohibit it. The conversation was civil and could have easily continued with more debate but it didn't..Sometimes we need to just walk away.

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I seem to remember that someone must have reported some posts and some posts WERE deleted from that thread.............. might not have been as civil as you think........lol.

I totally agree with your ethics on not harassing birds in the spring, was it even proven that it is a legal practice or just an old time tradition that some think must carry on?? I personally stayed out of the thread as I do not agree with the practice but hey if guys want to stress out there quarry right before they lay and it’s totally legal then so be it. (Just not positive it is legal??)

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Originally Posted by onelessarrow

You slam people every opportunity you get on here. Spare me your BS.

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Notice the only time he shows up is to slam someone or if the word liberal was used????

Never seen a reply from him congratulating anyone on a deer/turkey/fish.....................

I have been lucky enough to fish on a particular eastern trib 4 times in the last 7 days. I have seen a conservation officer on 3 of those 4 days, checking for licences, mainly from guys with $600 float reels.The least likely people ever to risk confiscation, LOL. Yes I know they are very short on cash , but seem to have enough money for that visible stuff.

The "if you don't agree with me then you are wrong" attitude spreads way beyond hunting. I hate the fact that people can't agree to disagree then move on and have a beer and talk about what they do agree on. Unfortunately that's the world we live in so we just have to deal with it.

Total BS

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

I don't recall slamming anyone for following the law. Not my style. Back to this thread. I have good ethics. I encourage people to hunt. I like other hunters. I dislike other hunters who do not follow the rules. No need to dislike anyone who obeys the hunting regulations as written. Do not make up your own laws. Simple enough?

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Originally Posted by Useless

The "if you don't agree with me then you are wrong" attitude spreads way beyond hunting. I hate the fact that people can't agree to disagree then move on and have a beer and talk about what they do agree on. Unfortunately that's the world we live in so we just have to deal with it.

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X2, 100% agree. Thankfully the beer I have in the fridge is cold and going down easy!

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I haven't read all the comments on this thread as it is 4 pages........... but when I found this form 4-5 years ago now I found a bunch of guys who were willing to help out, give you some info and not bash the heck out of you if you said something they didn't like. Most of those guys are gone now and I don't come and visit this form as often as I did because of that. It also seems like anything anyone says gets brought back to politics some how!! I think If we were to all sit in a room and have some of the talks that happen on this form in person (which I do not take part in) we would say half the crap we say when were hiding behind our key boards, Which just shows what kind of people you are dealing with, sometimes.

Sorry i think this was my first rant but its been bugging me for a while and I don't say much here.

Cheers.

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Originally Posted by Dythbringer

Can you provide examples of legal practices which deserve condemnation?

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Here are examples of a legal practice that deserves condemnation and an illegal practice that that doesn't.

Hunting big game with inadequate rounds. Any centerfire is legal under the regulations so a .25-20 rifle would be a legal moose rifle in Ontario. Hardly ethical.

The flip side is hunting small game with a rifle having a bore larger than .275 in a county or township where they are prohibited. If a person used a 32-20 for small game instead of a .270 Weatherby they'd be breaking the law but would hardly be unethical. The same could be said having a couple of slugs with you while bird hunting during an open big game season.

Personally, I won't defend hounding deer or bear even though it is "legal." Letting loose a pack of dogs to tree a bear or run a deer to exhaustion is well outside my definition of fair chase.

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Originally Posted by GW11

This all sounds wonderful Fox, but when it comes to who these so-called abusive posters are, I think maybe you should be looking a little closer to home, or in the mirror for that matter.

Practice what you're preaching here a little more and maybe you'll be a little more respected in turn.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

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No kidding. Well done sir.

I read most of Fox's posts and I have never seen an abusive post from him, me on the other hand I have in the past many years ago.

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Originally Posted by GW11

This all sounds wonderful Fox, but when it comes to who these so-called abusive posters are, I think maybe you should be looking a little closer to home, or in the mirror for that matter.

Practice what you're preaching here a little more and maybe you'll be a little more respected in turn.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by TurkeyObsessed

I haven't read all the comments on this thread as it is 4 pages........... but when I found this form 4-5 years ago now I found a bunch of guys who were willing to help out, give you some info and not bash the heck out of you if you said something they didn't like. Most of those guys are gone now and I don't come and visit this form as often as I did because of that. It also seems like anything anyone says gets brought back to politics some how!! I think If we were to all sit in a room and have some of the talks that happen on this form in person (which I do not take part in) we would say half the crap we say when were hiding behind our key boards, Which just shows what kind of people you are dealing with, sometimes.

Sorry i think this was my first rant but its been bugging me for a while and I don't say much here.

Cheers.

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I agree with you in relation to the politics and the usual suspects who start it generally it starts as a anti Liberal post and goes down hill.There is a off topic section they can go to bash each other and keep it out of the other sections,but the moderators ALLOW the attacks to start and then there is the response.
The anti liberals are well aware what they are doing and are doing it for the fun of it.I personally would never change my political leaning based on what I read from the other side,but would be happier if they did not start the bs. I will not start a political attack but do not mind responding.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

I read most of Fox's posts and I have never seen an abusive post from him, me on the other hand I have in the past many years ago.

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I agree with you Fox,s posts are always very respectful.

I think mine and your posts for the most part are respectful as well.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

I agree with you Fox,s posts are always very respectful.

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

I agree Badenoch and support your opinion. A recent woodcock thread debated whether or not it was legal to train a pointing breed during the nesting period(ethical). Some did not agree and described what they did instead during the nesting period. Based on my personal ethics I would not, even though the current law doesn't prohibit it. The conversation was civil and could have easily continued with more debate but it didn't..Sometimes we need to just walk away.

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This might be a good example of what everyone is trying to get at. It is not unethical to train a pointing breed during the woodcock nesting season, providing you are not using nesting woodcocks to do so. It all about the reason for not disturbing the bird, if the bird is driven off the nest, that clutch of eggs could be left unhatched and lost to repopulate the specie. The Migratory Convention Act targets as illegal, any behavior that might result in that happening. For much the same reason the hunting regulation, make it illegal to shoot or interfere with black bears in their dens, or damage or destroy their dens. Nesting sites are important in the regeneration of all wildlife. Right now they are raising concern about the decline of the woodland caribou out in western Canada. Their thought is to establish caribou maternity pens and cull the wolf. Heaven forbid that they cease all industrial exploration and expansion on the calving grounds. It's easy to suggest some practice is not ethical, and say I won't do it. However what is often missing is your reason "why." Things that may seem obvious to one individual, may not ever be on the radar of someone else. In some cases it not enough, just to proclaim a behavior is illegal, It might not have occurred to someone else why it should be so. That may be why I'm so wordy, for me reasons are king!

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting
- Gun Nut

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

I read most of Fox's posts and I have never seen an abusive post from him, me on the other hand I have in the past many years ago.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

I agree with you Fox,s posts are always very respectful.

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Thank you

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Here are examples of a legal practice that deserves condemnation and an illegal practice that that doesn't.

Hunting big game with inadequate rounds. Any centerfire is legal under the regulations so a .25-20 rifle would be a legal moose rifle in Ontario. Hardly ethical.

The flip side is hunting small game with a rifle having a bore larger than .275 in a county or township where they are prohibited. If a person used a 32-20 for small game instead of a .270 Weatherby they'd be breaking the law but would hardly be unethical. The same could be said having a couple of slugs with you while bird hunting during an open big game season.

Personally, I won't defend hounding deer or bear even though it is "legal." Letting loose a pack of dogs to tree a bear or run a deer to exhaustion is well outside my definition of fair chase.

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This is where you need to choose not to do things that you do not want to do and let others hunt as they have within the restrictions of the law based on sound wildlife management.

If the population is healthy there is no problem using dogs to hunt, you are down in Wellington County, not sure if you have ever hunted with dogs but it is not easy and it is no where near a sure thing. Saying that is it not fair chase is akin to a bow hunter saying that hunting them with a rifle should be banned as it is too easy.

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Originally Posted by Fox

This is where you need to choose not to do things that you do not want to do and let others hunt as they have within the restrictions of the law based on sound wildlife management.

If the population is healthy there is no problem using dogs to hunt, you are down in Wellington County, not sure if you have ever hunted with dogs but it is not easy and it is no where near a sure thing. Saying that is it not fair chase is akin to a bow hunter saying that hunting them with a rifle should be banned as it is too easy.

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Except that in your original post you demand that we "should be standing up for all legal methods of hunting and all legal practices." I am not going to stand up for a practice I consider objectionable simply because it is legal. My opinion will not be suppressed because of your appeals to "fraternity" and nor should anyone else's.

Apparently I took the original post different than some. We all have different opinions on topics but bashing someone for something that wasn't really part of the original comment or questions should maybe be avoided, maybe start a new thread if you feel strongly about something. I know how I hunt and fish has changed over the last 30 years, I could easily see present self having disagreeing conversations with previous self and most likely with future self, like has been said before take into consideration others position but that doesn't mean you have to agree with it. We are all on a similar journey just at different spots along the way, enjoy the trip!

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Except that in your original post you demand that we "should be standing up for all legal methods of hunting and all legal practices." I am not going to stand up for a practice I consider objectionable simply because it is legal. My opinion will not be suppressed because of your appeals to "fraternity" and nor should anyone else's.

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It would be an awfully boring forum if we all agreed on every subject.
Think the point here is respectful debate of opposing views.
Either defend your point of view or contrast your opponents point of view.
However if you can do neither don't resort to name calling or character assassination to "win" your point.

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Originally Posted by Fox

This is where you need to choose not to do things that you do not want to do and let others hunt as they have within the restrictions of the law based on sound wildlife management.

If the population is healthy there is no problem using dogs to hunt, you are down in Wellington County, not sure if you have ever hunted with dogs but it is not easy and it is no where near a sure thing. Saying that is it not fair chase is akin to a bow hunter saying that hunting them with a rifle should be banned as it is too easy.

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Fox, I think your initial post was well stated and food for thought for many. Unfortunately we have folks within the hunting/fishing fraternity that choose to take issues with others within same.

Gun hunting/bow hunting, dogs vs no dogs are issues brought up that tend to polarize individuals.

Are we asking everyone to get on the same side.....I think not and hope there is always room for reasonable debate and respect for opinions. I would hope though that folks not take on elements of the 'anti' side simply because they disagree with current practise.........it's kind of like the old saying of 'be careful what you wish for'

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

It would be an awfully boring forum if we all agreed on every subject.
Think the point here is respectful debate of opposing views.
Either defend your point of view or contrast your opponents point of view.
However if you can do neither don't resort to name calling or character assassination to "win" your point.

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A respectful debate on views is one thing. A demand that I "stand up" for behavior I consider unethical doesn't fall within that definition.

When I was a kid in NB it was considered unethical to bait deer. Do you know anyone who baits deer?

What is Unethical to one person may not be to someone else. Who decides what is Unethical if it is legal is it you, me or someone else?

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Except that in your original post you demand that we "should be standing up for all legal methods of hunting and all legal practices." I am not going to stand up for a practice I consider objectionable simply because it is legal. My opinion will not be suppressed because of your appeals to "fraternity" and nor should anyone else's.

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Quote:

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What is Unethical to one person may not be to someone else. Who decides what is Unethical if it is legal is it you, me or someone else?

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I don't think it matters who if anyone decides what is ethical or not, as long as the difference of opinions are debated in a friendly. respectful manner. I think this is what the OP was getting at.

It is what the OP was getting at. But some on here have insinuated that they will decide what is Unethical and Ethical regardless if it is legal.

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Originally Posted by redd foxx

I don't think it matters who if anyone decides what is ethical or not, as long as the difference of opinions are debated in a friendly. respectful manner. I think this is what the OP was getting at.

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Nobody has said that.

It is a discussion.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

It is what the OP was getting at. But some on here have insinuated that they will decide what is Unethical and Ethical regardless if it is legal.

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Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

I agree with you in relation to the politics and the usual suspects who start it generally it starts as a anti Liberal post and goes down hill.There is a off topic section they can go to bash each other and keep it out of the other sections,but the moderators ALLOW the attacks to start and then there is the response.
The anti liberals are well aware what they are doing and are doing it for the fun of it.I personally would never change my political leaning based on what I read from the other side,but would be happier if they did not start the bs. I will not start a political attack but do not mind responding.

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X2.. Gilroy, they expect you to respond, they want you to respond, they need you to respond. Yet complain when you do. LOL

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

When I was a kid in NB it was considered unethical to bait deer. Do you know anyone who baits deer?

What is Unethical to one person may not be to someone else. Who decides what is Unethical if it is legal is it you, me or someone else?

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How about taking a 223 to fill a bull moose tag..According to the op we all should be supporting it because its legal. How many on here do you think would be supportive? :thumbup::silly:

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

How about taking a 223 to fill a bull moose tag..According to the op we all should be supporting it because its legal. How many on here do you think would be supportive? :thumbup::silly:

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My original post was for people to stop attacking people for hunting, you bring up a 223 for moose, ok, may be valid, then what about a 30-30? Will you go at someone for wanting to use a 30-30? Will you attack someone for hunting with a bow? How about not hunting with a bow? You see where the original intent it? If you do not have something nice to say please refrain from saying anything.

If someone asks if the 223 is an ideal firearm for moose then please give your opinion but do it respectfully, this is not how things are being written on the forum, people are essentially being told they are stupid or worse for using something they do not agree with or running into problems in a hunting situation.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

What is Unethical to one person may not be to someone else. Who decides what is Unethical if it is legal is it you, me or someone else?

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Each individual can reach their own conclusions on personal ethics. It's damn low standard to let the government decide your ethics for you. A debate on ethical positions is fine but no one should be required to "stand up" for any and all practices simply because they are legal which is what the OP is demanding.

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Originally Posted by Fox

My original post was for people to stop attacking people for hunting, you bring up a 223 for moose, ok, may be valid, then what about a 30-30? Will you go at someone for wanting to use a 30-30? Will you attack someone for hunting with a bow? How about not hunting with a bow? You see where the original intent it? If you do not have something nice to say please refrain from saying anything.

If someone asks if the 223 is an ideal firearm for moose then please give your opinion but do it respectfully, this is not how things are being written on the forum, people are essentially being told they are stupid or worse for using something they do not agree with or running into problems in a hunting situation.

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Funny Fox bahahaha, as even giving your opinion on this forum may get you attacked flamed because others are asking for opinions. Oh well, wipe your tears and move on Fox

It appears what should have been a reasonable discussion has changed with the tone of defensiveness. Saying Fox was 'demanding' and words like suppression sure do create the 'tone' here. No one is being suppressed nor should they feel that way.

Sure you can drop a Moose with a 223 and yes it is legal and if you want to do it go ahead. But personally I think a Moose is a large animal and a 223 is just to small but if you want to do it go ahead, some people do especially way up north. But seems to me it might be dangerous shooting a Turkey off the roost, well I'm not to worried about the Turkey attacking me.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Each individual can reach their own conclusions on personal ethics. It's damn low standard to let the government decide your ethics for you. A debate on ethical positions is fine but no one should be required to "stand up" for any and all practices simply because they are legal which is what the OP is demanding.

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Holy Christ ladies and gemtlemen, the basic jist of the original post was to have some civility. Everybody on the planet has differing opinions, thats what makes discussions interesting and educational. Keeping an open mind and reading and listening and educating yourself makes you a better person. When you resort to name calling, questioning someones integrity and putting a person down for their opinion well quite frankly you have missed the mark and made yourself a target. Have an opinion, defend it intellectually and be open to other people's opinions and facts, thats the jist of the op.......IMO......bring on the insults.....I am old school, they dont mean shi* to me. That being said, I grew up with the saying sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me.....as opposed to the new verison.....sticks and stones dont break my bones but names will always hurt me. My user name is my name, I dont hide, like me or hate me I dont give a f$@$.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

well said ...:thumbup:

It has been proven that name calling does more damage then sticks and stones....Just saying.

So,the moral of the story is "You vote for your guy,I vote for my guy,you go to your church and I go to my church" and we don't discuss politics or religion anymore,no matter what..........oh,wait,because "ethics" is such a a personal thing,we don't discuss that,either. Well,my rifle is right here beside me in the case,my lunch and thermos is in my pack and at 0dark30,I'm outa here. Sure works for me.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

I think mine and your posts for the most part are respectful as well.

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GW after 10 years we have figured each other out.LOL

Interesting read. As one of the few ladies left on here, I appreciate the respect people give me even when my post is way off base. Thank you.
Several things I don't like when it comes to hunting - things that are legal.
I try to keep my mouth/computer shut and carry on. :)

Holy crap has 10 years gone by? I still look 30 years old.

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Originally Posted by Gilroy

GW after 10 years we have figured each other out.LOL

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Directed towards me Trimmer?
If so, you got my post way wrong.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

So,the moral of the story is "You vote for your guy,I vote for my guy,you go to your church and I go to my church" and we don't discuss politics or religion anymore,no matter what..........oh,wait,because "ethics" is such a a personal thing,we don't discuss that,either. Well,my rifle is right here beside me in the case,my lunch and thermos is in my pack and at 0dark30,I'm outa here. Sure works for me.

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Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Jerryklimczuk

Directed towards me Trimmer?
If so, you got my post way wrong.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

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Not at all. Just a general comment not aimed at anyone.

Ok cool, have a good one! Happy opener.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Not at all. Just a general comment not aimed at anyone.

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Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

I don't know I was called lot's of names as a kid I was also bullied many times.

I just learn to deal with it and taught my kids the same.

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Originally Posted by fratri

It has been proven that name calling does more damage then sticks and stones....Just saying.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

I don't know I was called lot's of names as a kid I was also bullied many times.

I just learn to deal with it and taught my kids the same.

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We are all different, not everyone is like you or me or you kids.... Calling one names, especially at a young age, does damage, there is no getting around it.

People can be taught to deal with life, they just have to be given the tools.

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Originally Posted by fratri

We are all different, not everyone is like you or me or you kids.... Calling one names, especially at a young age, does damage, there is no getting around it.

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Originally Posted by fratri

We are all different, not everyone is like you or me or you kids.... Calling one names, especially at a young age, does damage, there is no getting around it.

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That is a fact verified by many psychologists, but many are just too bull headed [ that macho image ] to admit that it does cause problems with quite a few at an early age.

A psychologist will tell you many things. Technically the whole human population is nuts and I think if you look you will find many psychologist seek help from psychologists.

I was bullied in grade 1 and 2 than again in grade 8 and again in grade 9. In grade 9 I was even made fun of by most of the teachers. I know quite a bit about being bullied and so do my kids.

Surprise surprise most schools allow bullying, personally I would say the encourage it.

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Originally Posted by jaycee

[/B]

That is a fact verified by many psychologists, but many are just too bull headed [ that macho image ] to admit that it does cause problems with quite a few at an early age.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

A psychologist will tell you many things. Technically the whole human population is nuts and I think if you look you will find many psychologist seek help from psychologists.

I was bullied in grade 1 and 2 than again in grade 8 and again in grade 9. In grade 9 I was even made fun of by most of the teachers. I know quite a bit about being bullied and so do my kids.

Surprise surprise most schools allow bullying, personally I would say the encourage it.

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GW...sorry bullying was an issue for you, it should not happen to you nor anyone else. However I totally disagree with your statement that schools encourage bullying......what possible support could you have for that statement?

I have to disagree I will tell you a few quick stories in Ottawa there have been 3 cases that actually made the news where the child being bullied was told they should relocate to another school.

When my eldest son was in grade 9 I got a call from the school he was being suspended for one day. I asked what happened and the Principal told me he had hit a student and started a fight and they didn't tell me anymore. So when he got home and called me at work I asked what the heck was going on. So what had happened was the top school bully was breaking into a kids locker and that kid locker was the most bullied kid at the school. My son had asked the bully to stop and get away from the locker, the bully grabbed my son around the neck so my son punched him in the face and put him down. I called back the school to find out why they didn't tell me that part. I was told it was school policy. I told them my son would be only punished because he didn't hit this guy 3 times. I also warned the school board that if anyone attacks my kid and he feels he can take them then he can do to them as he see`s fit. I also told them my son would be in school the next day and would not be suspended or they would be speaking to my lawyer at their expense.

Yes schools do protect bullies! This has been shown in the city of Ottawa over and over again.

My kids have been taught to stand up to bullies if they can and protect or help kids who are being bullied and my son did exactly as he should oh it was also caught on video so the school knew what had exactly happened.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by krakadawn

GW...sorry bullying was an issue for you, it should not happen to you nor anyone else. However I totally disagree with your statement that schools encourage bullying......what possible support could you have for that statement?

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GW as I've said no one should be subject to bullying and sorry your boy has had that happen. No doubt we should teach our kids to stand up for themselves at a certain point, we should also teach them who to seek out for assistance as opposed to taking on a role in this.
As for suspensions I suggest you read the Education Act especially the section on appealing suspensions .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

I have to disagree I will tell you a few quick stories in Ottawa there have been 3 cases that actually made the news where the child being bullied was told they should relocate to another school.

When my eldest son was in grade 9 I got a call from the school he was being suspended for one day. I asked what happened and the Principal told me he had hit a student and started a fight and they didn't tell me anymore. So when he got home and called me at work I asked what the heck was going on. So what had happened was the top school bully was breaking into a kids locker and that kid locker was the most bullied kid at the school. My son had asked the bully to stop and get away from the locker, the bully grabbed my son around the neck so my son punched him in the face and put him down. I called back the school to find out why they didn't tell me that part. I was told it was school policy. I told them my son would be only punished because he didn't hit this guy 3 times. I also warned the school board that if anyone attacks my kid and he feels he can take them then he can do to them as he see`s fit. I also told them my son would be in school the next day and would not be suspended or they would be speaking to my lawyer at their expense.

Yes schools do protect bullies! This has been shown in the city of Ottawa over and over again.

My kids have been taught to stand up to bullies if they can and protect or help kids who are being bullied and my son did exactly as he should oh it was also caught on video so the school knew what had exactly happened.

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Good for you,greatwhite. I,too,have taught our kids from young ages to defend themselves against a bully with physical defensive tactics to absolutely discourage further trouble. Bullies tend to get the message right quick when they're flat on their back seeing stars.

Now that bullying has been discussed and rediscussed , how about getting back on the track of the original post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Good for you,greatwhite. I,too,have taught our kids from young ages to defend themselves against a bully with physical defensive tactics to absolutely discourage further trouble. Bullies tend to get the message right quick when they're flat on their back seeing stars.

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Hear Hear..my daughter was always a 'tom boy', started playing boys hockey when she was 7 long before there was any girls hockey. She was a tough kid. In the 6th grade some bully from the 8th grade set his sights on her and was made the mistake of pushing her to far. She beat the crap out of him in the school yard in front of the rest of the school. He's a local boy and still hasn't lived it down..beaten up by a girl two grades below him..:)

She was never bothered again in school, her rep held her straight through high school. ...and that is the way is should be...it's the way kids used to grow up.

We had to go in, but it was a formality, enough witnesses saw it happen etc. Back then there was no mandatory suspensions, counseling session or any of that crap. Teachers and Parents get far to involved in their kids lives nowadays and kids don't learn how to cope with life on their own. We have far to many snowflakes being 'offended' by far too much.

I think social media is so much part of their lives, kids are exposed to name calling daily, they become thick skinned and it doesn't affected them like it used to affect us.

As a teacher, I never tolerated bullying happening for one minute. I dealt with it no matter what was needed to be done.

story:
My brother(14) was in a wheelchair. Someone one in high school was bullying him - pouring milk down his neck etc.-He was crying in bed one night and his younger brother(13) asked him what was wrong. Next day the younger brother showed up at the older brother's high school and gave the bully a good beating. When he got back to his high school , the police were there. When the Police heard the story , they said, "Well next time call us." and that was the end of it. :)

If you think name calling doesn't hurt, you are mistaken.... surely you must have heard of Amanda Todd....how many other kids have done the same?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gycqAJcDFM

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Originally Posted by fratri

If you think name calling doesn't hurt, you are mistaken.... surely you must have heard of Amanda Todd....how many other kids have done the same?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gycqAJcDFM

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According to greatwhite-- " People can be taught to deal with life, they just have to be given the tools. ":confused: he must live in a different world than the rest ?????
I keep forgetting he and a couple of others have all the answers !

Were you ever bullied. I was Grade 1 and 2 I still remember it and especially grade 9 when my parents moved to a new city from Fredericton to Saint John. My nick name by the way was the Grinch because at the time I had an zit problem even my English teacher use to call me names.

Yes people can be given the tools to deal with life if you are not then you will suffer in life for a very long time. In the real world life can be tough at times. You either learn to deal with it or you FAIL!!!!

I learn to deal with life and I live in the real world not the rose colored NDP/Liberal world.

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Originally Posted by jaycee

According to greatwhite-- " People can be taught to deal with life, they just have to be given the tools. ":confused: he must live in a different world than the rest ?????
I keep forgetting he and a couple of others have all the answers !

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Oh and I have been through Hell and back over the years.

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Originally Posted by jaycee

I keep forgetting he and a couple of others have all the answers !

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thanks for contributing.....LOL....

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

... and I live in the real world not the rose colored NDP/Liberal world.

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May I ask why a few members here feel the need to inject partisan politics into every thread?

Getting back to the OP, it sure would help the tone of discussion if people quit this gratuitous B.S.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaycee

According to greatwhite-- " People can be taught to deal with life, they just have to be given the tools. ":confused: he must live in a different world than the rest ?????
I keep forgetting he and a couple of others have all the answers !

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Yep that's pretty much sums things up. I agree some people on here seem to have all the answers......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

Oh and I have been through Hell and back over the years.

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So I take it no one else on here has been through hardships, just you. Are you special or something, do you need a pat on the back?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by welsh

May I ask why a few members here feel the need to inject partisan politics into every thread?

Getting back to the OP, it sure would help the tone of discussion if people quit this gratuitous B.S.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

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My sentiments exactly!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

Were you ever bullied. I was Grade 1 and 2 I still remember it and especially grade 9 when my parents moved to a new city from Fredericton to Saint John. My nick name by the way was the Grinch because at the time I had an zit problem even my English teacher use to call me names.

Yes people can be given the tools to deal with life if you are not then you will suffer in life for a very long time. In the real world life can be tough at times. You either learn to deal with it or you FAIL!!!!

I learn to deal with life and I live in the real world not the rose colored NDP/Liberal world.

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I believe that most here have at one time or another been bullied, myself included, but we have learned to deal with it in our own way , and do not come on here telling everyone that can read , "how badly we we treated. " Then go on and brag how tough we were to stand up to these bullies and how we are teaching our children to stand up for themselves, this go on and on ad nauseum.
Get over it , it happened a long time ago, people are tired of hearing about it, you are just showing your insecurity problems .
By going on and on about your own previous problems , you are just confirming what I have learned at Univ. courses, and have been saying all along.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

thanks for contributing.....LOL....

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You are very welcome ! LOL !

Strange world we live in where at the same time police are mandated to deescalate a situation using non violent/force methods yet our children are encouraged to use violence and vigilante justice behavior.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaycee

I believe that most here have at one time or another been bullied, myself included, but we have learned to deal with it in our own way , and do not come on here telling everyone that can read , "how badly we we treated. " Then go on and brag how tough we were to stand up to these bullies and how we are teaching our children to stand up for themselves, this go on and on ad nauseum.
Get over it , it happened a long time ago, people are tired of hearing about it, you are just showing your insecurity problems .
By going on and on about your own previous problems , you are just confirming what I have learned at Univ. courses, and have been saying all along.

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Wow it's like having Dr. Phil right here on the forum handing out advice....LOL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

Strange world we live in where at the same time police are mandated to deescalate a situation using non violent/force methods yet our children are encouraged to use violence and vigilante justice behavior.

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It's been that way since man learned to walk up right..it's in our DNA (fight or flight) we're wired to defend ourselves...watch pre kindergarten kids in a playground, it's a natural (basic) instinct.

edit: for clarity...You don't encourage a child to 'fight'....you encourage your child to choice 'flight'...that's why you put them in contact sports where they learn the difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

It's been that way since man learned to walk up right..it's in our DNA (fight or flight) we're wired to defend ourselves...watch pre kindergarten kids in a playground, it's a natural (basic) instinct.

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Wow, I guess Dr Phil has a twin brother...lmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

Wow, I guess Dr Phil has a twin brother...lmao

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Except one post points out basic Physiology, which everyone is taught and should know, where the forum Psychologist's post has obviously come from watching daytime TV and hands out advice like candy ..:)

edited; for clarity...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

Strange world we live in where at the same time police are mandated to deescalate a situation using non violent/force methods yet our children are encouraged to use violence and vigilante justice behavior.

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I don't see where anyone has "encouraged children to use violence and vigilante justice behavior." You're reading far too much into it for whatever reason. Teaching children defensive tactics against physical attack,be they basic or advanced and how,where and when to use them can by no means whatsoever be construed as "violence or viglante justice behavior." I consider it common sense,especially,in today's society.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

I don't see where anyone has "encouraged children to use violence and vigilante justice behavior." You're reading far too much into it for whatever reason. Teaching children defensive tactics against physical attack,be they basic or advanced and how,where and when to use them can by no means whatsoever be construed as "violence or viglante justice behavior." I consider it common sense,especially,in today's society.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

Good for you,greatwhite. I,too,have taught our kids from young ages to defend themselves against a bully with physical defensive tactics to absolutely discourage further trouble. Bullies tend to get the message right quick when they're flat on their back seeing stars.

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"flat on their backs seeing stars" your words. Sounds like promoting excessive violence to me? Are you saying the better bully wins. Self defense is one thing beating another into submission quite another.
In any case laying hands on another - violence. Taking matters into your own hands- vigilante. Call it what you may.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Wow it's like having Dr. Phil right here on the forum handing out advice....LOL

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Well I see that you are the expert , as you have been doling out advise constantly ! LOL !

FYI I seldom watch TV, but You must be well acquainted with this Dr. Phil guy! LOL!

Were you somebody who picked on other kids, you sure sound like it

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Originally Posted by jaycee

You are very welcome ! LOL !

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I fully understand a parent's concern if they believe their child was bullied. The term has become very common today and often misused. When many of the situations are exposed what most of us consider to be bullying was not the case. Very often prior verbal attacks incite responses....deserved or not.

Comments as follow smack of bravado and we all know bravado can be very foolhardy. Let's be smart about what we teach our kids.


"I told them my son would be only punished because he didn't hit this guy 3 times. I also warned the school board that if anyone attacks my kid and he feels he can take them then he can do to them as he see`s fit. I also told them my son would be in school the next day and would not be suspended or they would be speaking to my lawyer at their expense."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

"flat on their backs seeing stars" your words. Sounds like promoting excessive violence to me? Are you saying the better bully wins. Self defense is one thing beating another into submission quite another.
In any case laying hands on another - violence. Taking matters into your own hands- vigilante. Call it what you may.

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"Beating another into submission"? Holy crap,over sensationalize and dramatize much? Are you a journalist? LOL Yeah,whatever. LOL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaycee

According to greatwhite-- " People can be taught to deal with life, they just have to be given the tools. ":confused: he must live in a different world than the rest ?????
I keep forgetting he and a couple of others have all the answers !

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It carries on, they are internet bullies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

Strange world we live in where at the same time police are mandated to deescalate a situation using non violent/force methods yet our children are encouraged to use violence and vigilante justice behavior.

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Not 'our' children, some peoples children, but a good retort non the less.

Deleted

You know what, when you put people on your ignore list, they disappear from your life. I wish people didn’t quote them in their posts. It’s like a zombie returning from the dead.

My son was never taught to use violence? Another kid put his hands around my sons throat. I'm guessing he should have allowed the other kid to choke him?? My son attempted to stop that kid from breaking into a locker that belonged to the little kid being bullied.

My son did what was right, stop someone from stealing who was also the school bully and when he asked the kid to stop he was grabbed around the neck. At that point if my son can take him he can do whatever. My son punched him in the face. The school admitted that it was on video.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

Strange world we live in where at the same time police are mandated to deescalate a situation using non violent/force methods yet our children are encouraged to use violence and vigilante justice behavior.

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I put peoples quotes in my answers or rebuttals, so there is no misconception about who, or what I am talking about.

" told my son he would only be punished because he did not hit this guy 3 times' ......your words....... 'if he can take him my son can do whatever' your words. Yes there is a wise father. LOL.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

My son was never taught to use violence? Another kid put his hands around my sons throat. I'm guessing he should have allowed the other kid to choke him?? My son attempted to stop that kid from breaking into a locker that belonged to the little kid being bullied.

My son did what was right, stop someone from stealing who was also the school bully and when he asked the kid to stop he was grabbed around the neck. At that point if my son can take him he can do whatever. My son punched him in the face. The school admitted that it was on video.

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I question what you taught your son. Could he and should he have seek assistance from faculty? He put himself in a situation where he was at risk. Guess the flip side would be what if he couldn't take him.
Again just saying he choose to escalate the situation.

If anyone attempts to hurt me and I figure I can take them then I own them.

Nobody has a right to attack another person.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

" told my son he would only be punished because he did not hit this guy 3 times' ......your words....... 'if he can take him my son can do whatever' your words. Yes there is a wise father. LOL.

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No he didn't. What would you do while someone is choking you, ask him to play cards. He told the kid to stop breaking into someones locker. Should my son have waited until he was choked out?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

I question what you taught your son. Could he and should he have seek assistance from faculty? He put himself in a situation where he was at risk. Guess the flip side would be what if he couldn't take him.
Again just saying he choose to escalate the situation.

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If you tell your son ' if he can take someone he can do whatever'.... even if he is attacked first, that young man is a bully in the making and likely a convict as well. Does the term 'reasonable force' come to mind?

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

No he didn't. What would you do while someone is choking you, ask him to play cards. He told the kid to stop breaking into someones locker. Should my son have waited until he was choked out?

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If someone was breaking into my neighbours house where only property was at risk what would I do/should do? .... ummmmm oh ya call the proper authority to deal with it, hence wouldn't have to worry about what to do if someone is choking me.
Your son so raise him how you want.
Mine knows well enough in a situation like that report it to the proper authority and not confront the offender for the sake of property especially if theft is on video.

My kids will defend anyone.

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Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

If someone was breaking into my neighbours house where only property was at risk what would I do/should do? .... ummmmm oh ya call the proper authority to deal with it, hence wouldn't have to worry about what to do if someone is choking me.
Your son so raise him how you want.
Mine knows well enough in a situation like that report it to the proper authority and not confront the offender for the sake of property especially if theft is on video.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

My kids will defend anyone.

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I can't believe what you've just said.....are you silly??? what the hell are you teaching your kids??
No one said your kid needed to wait for someone to choke him....of course not. He should have reported the problem...your boy doesn't have a badge on his chest and you clearly should not condone that type of behaviour.....be responsible....absolutely but in the right way
Several others have made some reasonable suggestions....like maybe contact someone who does this for a living.
Sorry GW but you're way off base.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

If you tell your son ' if he can take someone he can do whatever'.... even if he is attacked first, that young man is a bully in the making and likely a convict as well. Does the term 'reasonable force' come to mind?

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Whoa whoa whoa, that is friggin offside.....did you just really call his kid a likely criminal? Thats way out of line sir.

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Nope he has the RIGHT as anyone does to defend himself. He was attacked and being choked.

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Originally Posted by krakadawn

I can't believe what you've just said.....are you silly??? what the hell are you teaching your kids??
No one said your kid needed to wait for someone to choke him....of course not. He should have reported the problem...your boy doesn't have a badge on his chest and you clearly should not condone that type of behaviour.....be responsible....absolutely but in the right way
Several others have made some reasonable suggestions....like maybe contact someone who does this for a living.
Sorry GW but you're way off base.

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Originally Posted by Jerryklimczuk

Whoa whoa whoa, that is friggin offside.....did you just really call his kid a likely criminal? Thats way out of line sir.

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In your opinion. If he takes his dads bad advice, it is not out of line or unreasonable, if you go around thinking because 'you can take someone you can do whatever' . In parts of this country it could have got his son killed, for a locker break-in.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

My kids will defend anyone.

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He was defending a locker. But then again he has a father who thinks it should be okay to shoot someone who is stealing his atv, as he has stated many times over the years on many threads

Lol, ok.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

In your opinion. If he takes his dads bad advice, it is not out of line or unreasonable . In parts of this country it could have got his son killed, for a locker break-in.

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The right to defend for sure but culpability is also examined on his part....in this case with his initial comments, he wasn't 'attacked' until he entered into this. Again, best to seek out a person in authority rather than get involved in this conflict
I gave you some advice earlier about reading the Education Act specific to suspensions, appeals, rights and responsibilities when you were posturing how you would handle things in a previous post.
I would also suggest you do some research/reading concerning the Criminal Code of Canada which sets out criminal law and procedures in Canada...specific to assault.
A little bit of reading might change your stance on several issues and save you the 4-500 dollars the first consult is going to run you but hey lawyers have to buy groceries too!

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

He was defending a locker.

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He was sticking up for a kid that couldnt defend himself, the bully acted with aggression and physically first, he defended himself. No, I dont agree he should keep hitting the bully after he is down but I commend the young man for sticking up for someone who cant defend themself. Its not about a locker, its about helping the helpless.
Would you or anyone stand their and watch a thug beat up a grandma for her purse? Really?

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GW stated himself, that his son was stopping someone from stealing, the thief happened to be the school bully. The bully was not beating up anyone at the time. Hence no grandma being hurt.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

GW stated himself, that his son was stopping someone from stealing, the thief happened to be the school bully. The bully was not beating up anyone at the time. Hence no grandma being hurt.

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Lol, ok.

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He was stopping a crime. I teach my kids to help others and step in you probably taught yours to run away.

Do you think people who became cops ran away from problems no they are probably the ones who stop and help.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

He was defending a locker. But then again he has a father who thinks it should be okay to shoot someone who is stealing his atv, as he has stated many times over the years on many threads

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Exactly he was stopping a crime like any good person would do. Gosh I sure wouldn't want to trust or want someone like you around if things ever got tough.

I guess you taught your kids to run screaming away.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

GW stated himself, that his son was stopping someone from stealing, the thief happened to be the school bully. The bully was not beating up anyone at the time. Hence no grandma being hurt.

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F the proper the authority what are they going to do ? Tell them to be nice ok
Bullies get what they deserve knock em out once they will stop. .

I Had the princable at the high school grab the back of my hoodie as I was walking away and choked me. Bad move on his part never seen the eyes go so wide when he was slammed up against the wall. Guess he thought it was ok to put his hands on other students.. Might explain why he was stabbed at a previous school years before lol.

Bullies will carry on untill someone puts them in their place . Not because they get suspended for picking on people . If they feel they have the power they will continue.

Well and if you can't take them it's only a few bumps and bruises ,but they will stop if you defend your self .

F the police they once told me I'm lucky I didn't run cuz he was going to shoot my buddy lol . I just laughed .If I every catch someone stealing my stuff I will deal with it on my own,I think they will get the point a little faster then dealing with the cops. Call the cops and they will be back out stealing your niebours chit the next day.


Only one way to stop a Bully and that's to put him down.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

Were you somebody who picked on other kids, you sure sound like it

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The very opposite for your info! :

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Originally Posted by fishfood

F the proper the authority what are they going to do ? Tell them to be nice ok
Bullies get what they deserve knock em out once they will stop. .

I Had the princable at the high school grab the back of my hoodie as I was walking away and choked me. Bad move on his part never seen the eyes go so wide when he was slammed up against the wall. Guess he thought it was ok to put his hands on other students.. Might explain why he was stabbed at a previous school years before lol.

Bullies will carry on untill someone puts them in their place . Not because they get suspended for picking on people . If they feel they have the power they will continue.

Well and if you can't take them it's only a few bumps and bruises ,but they will stop if you defend your self .

F the police they once told me I'm lucky I didn't run cuz he was going to shoot my buddy lol . I just laughed .If I every catch someone stealing my stuff I will deal with it on my own,I think they will get the point a little faster then dealing with the cops. Call the cops and they will be back out stealing your niebours chit the next day.


Only one way to stop a Bully and that's to put him down.

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Exactly. A bully needs his bell rung to get the message, and that might be doing him a favour in the long run too.

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

Exactly. A bully needs his bell rung to get the message, and that might be doing him a favour in the long run too.

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Exactly!!......this bully crap was sorted out in the school yards or ball diamonds....that’s the problem today, you may “hurt” some snowflake’s feelings !!!! Sometimes a good swat in the snottlocker was warranted !

Thread of the year. LOL Everyone go outside and get some fresh air. This is an outdoor forum not a retirement home forum.

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Originally Posted by yellow dog

Thread of the year. LOL

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Year still to young to hand out that title. Plenty of time for the next " give your head a shakehttp://www.lakesimcoeoutdoors.com/fo...cons/wacko.gif " thread of the week.

Oh I am sure there will be more doozies.
Let the head shaking continue.

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Well....this thread just went the direction that the original post was addressing!!

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Exactly!!......this bully crap was sorted out in the school yards or ball diamonds....that’s the problem today, you may “hurt” some snowflake’s feelings !!!! Sometimes a good swat in the snottlocker was warranted !

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Now the bully has to fear the bullied kid who shows up at school with a knife , gun or a van full of fertilizer.:sad: Pay backs are not like they used to be.:scream: Rick who is the snowflake, the bully , or the kid being bullied?:rolleye:

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Originally Posted by redd foxx

Well....this thread just went the direction that the original post was addressing!!

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Bingo!

http://storage.proboards.com/6420671...7eXqXeKxJp.gif

Lol.

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Originally Posted by SK33T3R

http://storage.proboards.com/6420671...7eXqXeKxJp.gif

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Thread closed.