Permission for Deer Retrieval

This may have been discussed prior, but I'll ask any ways. Does anyone on this forum ask / talk to adjacent properties for permission to retrieve their deer should it expire on a neighbours property, prior to starting your deer season?

Absolutely, saves time and effort later.

I don't, but about 10 years ago I was denied permission to retrieve a deer.

Good conversation to have ahead of time. May end up getting permission on the neighbours property to hunt as well.

On many of my properties I have permission to retrieve from adjacent farms.

A deer would have to run for well over 2000 yards to reach the neighbors property. If it runs that distance & doesn't expire I would have made a very poor shot...

I wouldn't ask - because if you need to go on someone else's property and they had earlier told you no you don't have an excuse to retrieve a deer that ran over on their property - if I shot a deer and it ran on a adjacent property I would just go and get it - 9 times out of 10 the owner of this property won't even know what you did - if he happens to catch you then just tell him that you hit a deer and don't want it to suffer so you thought it would be ok to retrieve it - what's he going to do - he would have to be pretty mean not to let you get the deer -

Heard a story this week from brother in law that friend of his shot a moose which wandered over to neighbors property who claimed the animal. His friend got the police and believe went to court and he was given the animal back . I am trying to get more details and information on this and will get back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

A deer would have to run for well over 2000 yards to reach the neighbors property. If it runs that distance & doesn't expire I would have made a very poor shot...

---

That's a big property you have 2000 yards each way would be something in the neighbourhood of 8500 acres.

A guy dealing with a normal 200 acre rectanglular lot - a dear shot at the centre - 550 yards n/s or 440 yards east/west would put the deer at a line fence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoePa

I wouldn't ask - because if you need to go on someone else's property and they had earlier told you no you don't have an excuse to retrieve a deer that ran over on their property - if I shot a deer and it ran on a adjacent property I would just go and get it - 9 times out of 10 the owner of this property won't even know what you did - if he happens to catch you then just tell him that you hit a deer and don't want it to suffer so you thought it would be ok to retrieve it - what's he going to do - he would have to be pretty mean not to let you get the deer -

---

I thought in your part of the world, that would give him the right to shoot you!

Absolutely! You should ask the neighbour prior to the hunt. It's just as important to get their permission, as it is for permission for the land you will be hunting. And while asking them, be sure to explain that retreiving or searching for a wounded animal would be considered "hunting" in the eyes of the law.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bushmoose

Absolutely! You should ask the neighbour prior to the hunt. It's just as important to get their permission, as it is for permission for the land you will be hunting. And while asking them, be sure to explain that retreiving or searching for a wounded animal would be considered "hunting" in the eyes of the law.

---

Exactly. And I have been boned on this in the past by an unscrupulous hunter. This guy trespasses on everyone under the premise of searching for wounded game. If you get prior permission to retrieve game please don't mess it up by actually hunting the property.

Do you legally need permission to retrieve an animal that you have taken? I thought as ethical hunters we are required to make every effort possible to retrieve our game and therefore there are laws in place under the game and fish act that allow us access without permission in order to retrieve our game. It is always more politically correct to arrange things ahead of time but if you have a neighbor that you know could be a problem you still have the right to go on their land for this purpose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paultracy

Do you legally need permission to retrieve an animal that you have taken? I thought as ethical hunters we are required to make every effort possible to retrieve our game and therefore there are laws in place under the game and fish act that allow us access without permission in order to retrieve our game. It is always more politically correct to arrange things ahead of time but if you have a neighbor that you know could be a problem you still have the right to go on their land for this purpose.

---

That would make sense - but its not the way the law works.
By law, permission is required to trespass to retrieve game (retrieving game is "hunting" from the perspective of trespass laws).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by werner.reiche

That would make sense - but its not the way the law works.
By law, permission is required to trespass to retrieve game (retrieving game is "hunting" from the perspective of trespass laws).

---

It would make sense if you don't own any property or believe in property rights. What makes sense is the move the OFA is making to have the trespass penalties increased significantly.
Apparently there are still folks out there with no clue as to the law regarding trespass, which is a threat to all of us who know and obey the laws.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paultracy

Do you legally need permission to retrieve an animal that you have taken? I thought as ethical hunters we are required to make every effort possible to retrieve our game and therefore there are laws in place under the game and fish act that allow us access without permission in order to retrieve our game. It is always more politically correct to arrange things ahead of time but if you have a neighbor that you know could be a problem you still have the right to go on their land for this purpose.

---

YES,and so called hunters wonder why land owners refuse them entry. Did you know your strange scent disturbs the private property. Trrying to reteive an animal with out permission is "Trespassing to hunt". Your obligations are finished when you get a NO. What makes you think by buying a licence, gives you the right to trespass.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoePa

I wouldn't ask - because if you need to go on someone else's property and they had earlier told you no you don't have an excuse to retrieve a deer that ran over on their property - if I shot a deer and it ran on a adjacent property I would just go and get it - 9 times out of 10 the owner of this property won't even know what you did - if he happens to catch you then just tell him that you hit a deer and don't want it to suffer so you thought it would be ok to retrieve it - what's he going to do - he would have to be pretty mean not to let you get the deer -

---

Your a POACHER.

If you ask to retrieve game and the landowner refuses, you are no longer obligated to make use of that animal but the landowner IS. I would assume that they often change their mind when they are informed of that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greenhorn

YES,and so called hunters wonder why land owners refuse them entry. Did you know your strange scent disturbs the private property. Trrying to reteive an animal with out permission is "Trespassing to hunt". Your obligations are finished when you get a NO. What makes you think by buying a licence, gives you the right to trespass.

---

Your obligations do not end when you get a no. At that point it's time to get the CO involved. I don't remember if it was a recent or older issue of OOD but I recently read of a case where the landowner was told by the CO that he would be charged with allowing the deer to spoil if he did not consume it. Since he had no intention of using the deer permission was immediately granted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by M_P

Your obligations do not end when you get a no. At that point it's time to get the CO involved. I don't remember if it was a recent or older issue of OOD but I recently read of a case where the landowner was told by the CO that he would be charged with allowing the deer to spoil if he did not consume it. Since he had no intention of using the deer permission was immediately granted.

---

Yes, I meant to add the CO part to my response as well. If the landowner is refusing because they are some citiot hobby farmer, you will probably be in luck cause they will have no idea how to process a deer. Otherwise, most farmers would likely understand if you were hunting a neighbouring property and needed 'one time' access.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greenhorn

Your a POACHER.

---

Maybe our neighbors down here are more friendly - I hunt generally on my own property but if I had to retrieve a deer from any adjacent property that is posted I would go after the deer cause I know that the neighbors would not give me a hard time even though I have never asked them - the same thing if someone came on to my property after a wounded deer - I wouldn't care -it's just the neighborly thing to do - we are hunters and stick together - it's always a good idea to be friendly with your neighbors - if I had a neighbor who would give me or any other neighbor a hard time going on their property after a wounded deer everybody would be mad at the neighbor and they would know it - it fact if they had a neighbor arrested for trespassing everybody would find out about it and they would be outcasts or even something unpleasant could happen -

It's one thing to trespass and go hunting - it is another thing to go after a wounded deer - that don't even get near being a poacher - give me a break -

I mentioned it on another post - years ago some hunters were trespassing on some farmers land - I don't remember the full details anymore but I think they were just cutting through to get to their truck - the farmer had them arrested and they had to pay a fine - well about a year later somebody shot two of the farmer's cows that were in a field overnight - I wonder who did it - now I ain't saying that this was the right thing to do but it just goes to show you what can happen when you get overly aggressive when someone crosses your land --

I wouldn't like it if some stranger hunted on my land since I hunt it myself - but a neighbor looking for a wounded deer that's different - heck if a neighbor came on my land looking for a wounded deer I would probably help him find it - tell me what harm is a neighbor doing by walking over your land looking for a wounded deer - none -

The landowner can NOT be charged with "allowing game meat to spoil" because they didn't shoot it. If anything,we can be charged with littering and all costs for dead animal removal can be charged back to us. There's no way we can access anyone's private property without their express permission,so,it's our responsibility to ensure we have prior permission to enter neighboring property and if we don't,to make a quick,clean kill to ensure game doesn't get that far or don't take the shot. Trespassing will be the great undoing of hunting if we all don't have it crystal clear in our minds that everything we've ever heard that a hunting license gives us "carte blanche" to ignore private property and the CO's can force landowners to allow for retrieval is flat out BS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

The landowner can NOT be charged with "allowing game meat to spoil" because they didn't shoot it. If anything,we can be charged with littering and all costs for dead animal removal can be charged back to us. There's no way we can access anyone's private property without their express permission,so,it's our responsibility to ensure we have prior permission to enter neighboring property and if we don't,to make a quick,clean kill to ensure game doesn't get that far or don't take the shot. Trespassing will be the great undoing of hunting if we all don't have it crystal clear in our minds that everything we've ever heard that a hunting license gives us "carte blanche" to ignore private property and the CO's can force landowners to allow for retrieval is flat out BS.

---

My understanding as well.

I would definitely ask permission. Trespassing is still trespassing even if you don't get caught. Why risk involving a CO and ruining your hunt? I've seen it referenced that retrieval of game is considered "hunting" however this is not the case. Retrieval of game is not considered "hunting" in the eyes of the law. Which is why you can retrieve a deer at night, have an unlicensed friend assist you with the retrieval etc. It becomes a simple "trespass" case in under the TPA and not "trespass to hunt" as a enforced by a CO under FWCA. Although the situation would suck, we cannot use a CO to trespass on our behalf to retrieve game for us. If the landowner says "No" then you've done all you can do. As far as the landowner being charged for "spoilage", I suppose a CO could say that the landowner is now in lawful possession of game that was hunted and permitting it to spoil would be an offense. Best to avoid the mess!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

TTrespassing will be the great undoing of hunting if we all don't have it crystal clear in our minds that everything we've ever heard that a hunting license gives us "carte blanche" to ignore private property and the CO's can force landowners to allow for retrieval is flat out BS.

---

This subject has come up soooo many times on here and yet soooo many fools still don't get it? It's shameful to think there are that many out there (calling themselves hunters?) who don't have a clue about such a simple rule of hunting. Land owners permission is needed to hunt for a wounded or dead deer on their property. The land owner cannot be charged for failing to give said permission. End of story! Kaput! Tout finis!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoePa

Maybe our neighbors down here are more friendly - I hunt generally on my own property but if I had to retrieve a deer from any adjacent property that is posted I would go after the deer cause I know that the neighbors would not give me a hard time even though I have never asked them - the same thing if someone came on to my property after a wounded deer - I wouldn't care -it's just the neighborly thing to do - we are hunters and stick together - it's always a good idea to be friendly with your neighbors - if I had a neighbor who would give me or any other neighbor a hard time going on their property after a wounded deer everybody would be mad at the neighbor and they would know it - it fact if they had a neighbor arrested for trespassing everybody would find out about it and they would be outcasts or even something unpleasant could happen -

It's one thing to trespass and go hunting - it is another thing to go after a wounded deer - that don't even get near being a poacher - give me a break -

I mentioned it on another post - years ago some hunters were trespassing on some farmers land - I don't remember the full details anymore but I think they were just cutting through to get to their truck - the farmer had them arrested and they had to pay a fine - well about a year later somebody shot two of the farmer's cows that were in a field overnight - I wonder who did it - now I ain't saying that this was the right thing to do but it just goes to show you what can happen when you get overly aggressive when someone crosses your land --

I wouldn't like it if some stranger hunted on my land since I hunt it myself - but a neighbor looking for a wounded deer that's different - heck if a neighbor came on my land looking for a wounded deer I would probably help him find it - tell me what harm is a neighbor doing by walking over your land looking for a wounded deer - none -

---

Don't they shoot young people in the face, on the front porch , for knocking on the door, for help late at night.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Numpty

Retrieval of game is not considered "hunting" in the eyes of the law.

---

So then it's not considered "hunting" if I'm walking through a field in search of a deer that may or may not be dead? Interesting? Please tell us all how this works out for you when confronted by a C.O.?

If the deer is dead then you're not hunting. If the deer is still alive, then you're hunting. You don't "retrieve" a live animal. If you don't know if the deer is dead, then I would say you're still hunting.

If you don't have permission, you're trespassing either way.

Hopefully this example helps: You shoot a deer, see it die in the neighbors field. you go to retrieve it. While on the neighbors property, here comes the CO. If he charges you with "trespass to hunt" under the FWCA, you would beat that charge because you were not hunting. But If the CO or cops charges you with Trespassing under TPA then you're pooched!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by M_P

Your obligations do not end when you get a no. At that point it's time to get the CO involved. I don't remember if it was a recent or older issue of OOD but I recently read of a case where the landowner was told by the CO that he would be charged with allowing the deer to spoil if he did not consume it. Since he had no intention of using the deer permission was immediately granted.

---

I agree MP, I recall reading a thread on here where the hunter & CO went to the home of were the deer expired cause he couldn't get permission. The CO simply stated if you don't allow the hunter to harvest his deer and its on your property that its your responsibilty, as such CO stated i'll will come by next week and search the property/freezer to see if you harvested the animal, if not I will charge you for letting the animal spoil...in the end, the hunter went onto to the property to claim his deer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FISH-ON

I agree MP, I recall reading a thread on here where the hunter & CO went to the home of were the deer expired cause he couldn't get permission. The CO simply stated if you don't allow the hunter to harvest his deer and its on your property that its your responsibilty, as such CO stated i'll will come by next week and search the property/freezer to see if you harvested the animal, if not I will charge you for letting the animal spoil...in the end, the hunter went onto to the property to claim his deer

---

This is not the way the thread went. The CO went to the door and asked the landowner for permission, he denied. The CO then asked the landowner if he was going to take possession of the deer, he said yes. The CO then asked for his tag for the animal and so forth, this story is hearsay and more than likely bull. As a landowner you do not have to let anyone on your property even to retrieve an animal and you cannot be charged for denying anyone access. These situations normally occur when hunters are unprepared and have no one to blame but themself for not having the forethought to gain access to the adjoining properties.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skeeter1

These situations normally occur when hunters are unprepared and have no one to blame but themself for not having the forethought to gain access to the adjoining properties.

---

I'm lucky that I have retrieval access on all the properties around me. But even if I didn't I would go in and get the deer. I'd be dragging faster then the cops could get there. If they wanted to charge me so be it. BUT me and the deer (tagged) would be on my side of the fence!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SK33T3R

I'm lucky that I have retrieval access on all the properties around me. But even if I didn't I would go in and get the deer. I'd be dragging faster then the cops could get there. If they wanted to charge me so be it. BUT me and the deer (tagged) would be on my side of the fence!

---

I'm thinking you could have it gutted, skinned and wrapped in the freezer before the cops came:)

Neighbouring hunters haven't asked me. But one did leave the pealed away plastic section of a tag on my property after shotgun week last year. Nice guys

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SK33T3R

I'm lucky that I have retrieval access on all the properties around me. But even if I didn't I would go in and get the deer. I'd be dragging faster then the cops could get there. If they wanted to charge me so be it. BUT me and the deer (tagged) would be on my side of the fence!

---

if we get the changes in the law we are looking for, that would be a mighty expensive deer !
Trespassers, poachers, and sneak thieves. All the same type.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angus

In this area it wouldn't be the police you would be dealing with first, although they would be on the way. And if we get the changes in the law we are looking for, that would be a mighty expensive deer !
Trespassers, poachers, and sneak thieves. All the same type.

---

Would you let somebody onto your property for a one time retrieval if they asked first?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by werner.reiche

That's a big property you have 2000 yards each way would be something in the neighbourhood of 8500 acres.

A guy dealing with a normal 200 acre rectanglular lot - a dear shot at the centre - 550 yards n/s or 440 yards east/west would put the deer at a line fence.

---

I guess if he hunts crown it could be possible....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SK33T3R

I'm lucky that I have retrieval access on all the properties around me. But even if I didn't I would go in and get the deer. I'd be dragging faster then the cops could get there. If they wanted to charge me so be it. BUT me and the deer (tagged) would be on my side of the fence!

---

Same here, and proud of it.

When I read some of the comments, I'm sure glad to live where I live because South of us people and life doesn't seem pretty. The owner of the last property I got permission to hunt couldn't even tell me exactly where the property line was, there isn't any fence because they don't really care.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angus

In this area it wouldn't be the police you would be dealing with first, although they would be on the way. And if we get the changes in the law we are looking for, that would be a mighty expensive deer !
Trespassers, poachers, and sneak thieves. All the same type.

---

Really, so has a hunter you would give an other hunter trouble for retrieving a deer on your property? And you would call him a poacher and thieve?
Good for you man, we need more like you around.....

Fisher' - we only shoot people who intend to do us harm - we don't otherwise shoot trespassers - I'll tell you something - getting someone charged for trespassing is easier said than done - someone is trespassing on your land what do you do - call the cops - heck the guy is long gone before a cop comes - you see a truck parked near your land but how are you going to prove that the owner of this truck is the same guy who was walking across your land - everybody is wearing orange and look alike - you almost have to know the trespasser before you can prove that a particular guy is trespassing - I imagine it gets to be a real problem if you own hunting land someplace far from where you live and the locals hunt it when your not around - I don't think you can do much about it -

Years ago the farmer that sold me the land that I have now owned around 800 acres on the mountain behind me - people were always trespassing on his land - even during hunting season - they would sit somewhere near the border of his land and if they saw someone coming they would walk away -- if he happened to bump into someone he would tell them that he didn't want them hunting there - they would leave and that was about it -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bushmoose

This subject has come up soooo many times on here and yet soooo many fools still don't get it? It's shameful to think there are that many out there (calling themselves hunters?) who don't have a clue about such a simple rule of hunting. Land owners permission is needed to hunt for a wounded or dead deer on their property. The land owner cannot be charged for failing to give said permission. End of story! Kaput! Tout finis!

---

Well Bushmoose

I have been hunting for 20 years now and I guess I'm one of those fools. My first reaction would be to finish that deer off, what kind of human would wast time letting an animal suffer while I deal with all the red tape and BS,

There are 2 sets of laws in this world Mans laws and Gods laws and Mans laws can be broken Gods can not. I would get the job done, tagged, harvest the deer and bring it back to my property and get it field dressed and in my freezer. That would be the ethical thing to do and i would like to see a co officer or judge hit you with fines for the doing the moral and ethical right doing. Come on people have we lost all our common scene here.

I hate to admit it but I kind of agree with our american friend here, what kind of !*&$ would deny you permission and if he did I would be more concerned with the charges from the police after I was done tearing a strip off this person.

so to answer yes I would ask first but if I didn't ask or they refused I would still go anyways

I would never deny a person the opportunity to retrieve a wounded deer. I'd happily help. I can however tell you that if I catch someone crossing my posted, private property without asking, they'll be speaking with both MNR and OPP. I have already dealt with lots of guys looking for the deer they wounded or the hounds that they lost. Funny enough, they never seem to find them.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angus

if we get the changes in the law we are looking for, that would be a mighty expensive deer !
Trespassers, poachers, and sneak thieves. All the same type.

---

I guess we'll never get to hunt together. :-)

I can't see another hunter or farmer or anyone else with common sense refusing entry to retrieve a deer that wandered on to their property. The people that would refuse are the deranged anti-hunters and I have no use or patience for them. There is no reasoning with them up front so I'd prefer to deal with them after the fact (if I get caught). Down my way there's lots of guys hunting on 10 acre plots. You either hunt there and adapt or take up a new sport!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mox72

Would you let somebody onto your property for a one time retrieval if they asked first?

---

Absolutely, even after the fact. Help them haul it out even. In fact I have done that, going back near midnight and loading their big buck with my loader.
Was talking to a young lad last fall who had just gotten permission to hunt the corn field next to me for geese. I told him right then and there that if they wounded a bird, and it made it to my property, there was no need to ask me for permission to come finish it off.
I am a hunter. I do and have shared my property as much as I am comfortable with. Trespassers ruin it for everyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SK33T3R

I guess we'll never get to poach together. :-)

I can't see another hunter or farmer or anyone else with common sense refusing entry to retrieve a deer that wandered on to their property. The people that would refuse are the deranged anti-hunters and I have no use or patience for them. There is no reasoning with them up front so I'd prefer to deal with them after the fact (if I get caught). Down my way there's lots of guys hunting on 10 acre plots. You either hunt there and adapt or take up a new sport!

---

There. Fixed it for you !! :tongue:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angus

Absolutely, even after the fact. Help them haul it out even. In fact I have done that, going back near midnight and loading their big buck with my loader.
Was talking to a young lad last fall who had just gotten permission to hunt the corn field next to me for geese. I told him right then and there that if they wounded a bird, and it made it to my property, there was no need to ask me for permission to come finish it off.
I am a hunter. I do and have shared my property as much as I am comfortable with. Trespassers ruin it for everyone.

---

I respect your opinion then, however i do disagree that a person trespassing for a quick retrieve should be labelled a poacher. The right move is to ask though. Im just relieved you arent one of those guys who thinks he owns the wildlife on his property, dead or alive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mox72

If you ask to retrieve game and the landowner refuses, you are no longer obligated to make use of that animal but the landowner IS. I would assume that they often change their mind when they are informed of that.

---

That's a negative.

[QUOTE=Big Gunner;852477]Well Bushmoose

I have been hunting for 20 years now and I guess I'm one of those fools. My first reaction would be to finish that deer off, what kind of human would wast time letting an animal suffer while I deal with all the red tape and BS, Well I've been hunting for over 40 yrs and can tell you that common sense would dictate that you, as hunter, should have gotten the permission before your hunt. And then lo n behold, there would be no red tape and BS. To do otherwise is foolish.

There are 2 sets of laws in this world Mans laws and Gods laws and Mans laws can be broken Gods can not. I would get the job done, tagged, harvest the deer and bring it back to my property and get it field dressed and in my freezer. That would be the ethical thing to do and i would like to see a co officer or judge hit you with fines for the doing the moral and ethical right doing. Come on people have we lost all our common scene here. Well carry on then?

I hate to admit it but I kind of agree with our american friend here, what kind of !*&$ would deny you permission and if he did I would be more concerned with the charges from the police after I was done tearing a strip off this person. It's easy to talk big here on the computer but the fact of the matter is you sound a bit childish in your comments.. You speak of ethics, but then you want to straighten out the C.O., the judge and the landowner. If you had the ethical forethought and consideration to get permission prior to the hunt, you would'nt be paying the huge fine that you will be paying one day if you keep that attitude. And oh, don't forget about the part where the police or the CO puts the cuffs on you for being belligerent on scene? They will do that you know. :D

so to answer yes I would ask first but if I didn't ask or they refused I would still go anyways see above

My understanding is that a CO probably will not run interference with a landowner to help retrieve a deer for a hunter.

My understanding is that a landowner can refuse a hunter permission and a CO permission to enter his property to retrieve a deer.

The landowner could not be charged for leaving a deer to spoil and if he decided to retrieve it he can contact the MNR and request a

permit to possess the deer which he would need to keep the deer and have permission before seeking the deer out would be a good idea.

Permission is also required by a hunter who might be seeking to retrieve a deer on his own or adjoining property AFTER LEGAL HOURS.
The MNR has stated many times a simple phone all,who you are,where you trying to retrieve the deer goes a long way.
Also you cannot carry a firearm after legal times,retrieving or not.

I personally might refuse a hunter permission to retrieve a deer on my land as I might not want the LIABILITY under the occupiers liability act. An act that a few posters may be unaware of.

I might also refuse if I believed the hunters might wander onto a neighbours land and they get me in crap with the neighbour.

In summary if I was approached for permission to retrieve a deer I might grant it if some of the above steps were taken and maybe also a indemnification form signed by the hunter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mox72

If you ask to retrieve game and the landowner refuses, you are no longer obligated to make use of that animal but the landowner IS. I would assume that they often change their mind when they are informed of that.

---

No the landowner is not obligated.

So Gilroy - then it's better not to ask the owner if you can retrieve the deer - that way the owner has no liability to worry about - just go over and get the deer and drag it to your property - the owner will probably never know what you did and if he's a good neighbor he won't care - no harm done - doesn't make sense - I'm sure everyone on this forum would stop and help a motorist who is hurt and needs medical attention - yet the same people would harass a follow hunter if he goes on their property to retrieve a wounded deer - people have to nicer to each other - do we want a dog eat dog world -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

I might also refuse if I believed the hunters might wander onto a neighbours land and they get me in crap with the neighbor.

---

A situation I am currently dealing with and who needs the heartache.

Re trespassing....the sooner written permission is a legal requirement, the sooner that ugly wheel will start to turn.

Been quiet on this but will put my $.02 into it. Unfortunately many people have used the excuse "we are looking for a deer we shot while hunting the property next door". If someone came to my door and explained they would like to look for a deer they shot I would definitely allow them access but I would go with them. I would have no problems laying trespassing charges if I caught someone that didn't ask. My property is posted as I bought it so I and my family can have a place to hunt and not have to worry about sitting in my stand and seeing someone wandering around. It took me 20 yrs to save the money to buy my land to be able to enjoy hunting without the hassle of relying on using public or someone else's land. If your hunting in an area that is small enough that you risk the chance of a deer running far enough to enter someone else's property then you should consider this before you hunt. There is no excuse to trespass period. Asking solves a lot of problems

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gooseman

Been quiet on this but will put my $.02 into it. Unfortunately many people have used the excuse "we are looking for a deer we shot while hunting the property next door". If someone came to my door and explained they would like to look for a deer they shot I would definitely allow them access but I would go with them. I would have no problems laying trespassing charges if I caught someone that didn't ask. My property is posted as I bought it so I and my family can have a place to hunt and not have to worry about sitting in my stand and seeing someone wandering around. It took me 20 yrs to save the money to buy my land to be able to enjoy hunting without the hassle of relying on using public or someone else's land. If your hunting in an area that is small enough that you risk the chance of a deer running far enough to enter someone else's property then you should consider this before you hunt. There is no excuse to trespass period. Asking solves a lot of problems

---

Very well said.

Fist shake......." Get off of my land".......!!!!

About a month ago one of our local enforcement boys came and gave a talk to our club. This topic came up.
He explained that you DO need permission to retrieve, but if it is refused you should call his 800 number ASAP. He or one of his partners will attend and if the landowner does not want the animal, they will retrieve it. If the landowner does want the animal then he can get a possession permit, the same as a roadkill. The landowner will not be allowed to waste the animal.
At present there are notices in both local papers and on at least two local radio stations about two people who retrieved a deer from private property in the Coe Hill area. CrimeStoppers is also involved in the search.
The CO also pointed out that under the trespass laws, the landowner does NOT have liability unless they have set traps for trespassers.
I have told my neighbours that if they have a wounded animal they should not worry about our property line. One of them has had his lawyer send me a letter outlining what will happen if I set foot on his land....

What if you can't get a hold of a CO ??????????

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brent

Re trespassing....the sooner written permission is a legal requirement, the sooner that ugly wheel will start to turn.

---

Some people believe it's better to beg forgiveness than to ask permission.

Written permission will make enforcement so much easier.

So you save your money to buy land to hunt on - great - yes you can press charges on someone who comes on your land to retrieve a wounded deer without asking -you have every right to do that - but let me ask you - what harm is done anyway - and how many times would something like that happen - can't you just be a nice guy and let the guy get the deer - what's he gonna do - leave some foot prints on your precious land - remember there are a lot a guys who gave their lives so you can have the right to own property - or got all crippled up defending you - they didn't ask anything in return - and you can't even bend a little - gotta get the guy arrested - boy I'm glad that I don't live next to you -

Boys,some of you are a piece of work. Hunters are loosing places to hunt not because of anti hunters but because of trespassers and theives.know I lost a lot of equipment on MY PRIVATE PROPERTY.
I was the nicest person you could ever meet. I taught hunters to call deer with their voice,gave hunters a place to hunt,tracked deer for strangers. Built a two acre pond for geese and invited lots of so called hunters to hunt. Planted 36,000 trees,spend 4 grand on clovers and alfalfa . Took guys out to hunt Turkey. How did they repay me when I got sick and unable to hunt much?? By hunting my stands, pushing the 50 acre scantruary so they could kill a deer than brag what a good Hunter they were. The straw that broke the camels back when they shot a deer in the scantruary . I have no respect for trespassers and they loose all credibility when they amit to it. I am a product of my time and you so called hunters will be the demise of hunting for all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoePa

So you save your money to buy land to hunt on - great - yes you can press charges on someone who comes on your land to retrieve a wounded deer without asking -you have every right to do that - but let me ask you - what harm is done anyway - and how many times would something like that happen - can't you just be a nice guy and let the guy get the deer - what's he gonna do - leave some foot prints on your precious land - remember there are a lot a guys who gave their lives so you can have the right to own property - or got all crippled up defending you - they didn't ask anything in return - and you can't even bend a little - gotta get the guy arrested - boy I'm glad that I don't live next to you -

---

There is no harm done in allowing a hunter onto your property BUT how about unforseen circumstances.Right now I have a friend who is being sued by a trespassing City lawyer for a spill the trespasser took on a ATV.My friend refused to settle with the trespasser even although his lawyer advised it would be cheaper,on principal he refused to give a red cent to a trespasser.

So there is one example of a problem.Unfortunately for you JOE you come from a generation of STAND UP GUYS,who when they gave you a handshake it actually meant something.Today that is no longer the case.

Its actually easier and far safer for a landowner to refuse the entry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by patvetzal

About a month ago one of our local enforcement boys came and gave a talk to our club. This topic came up.
He explained that you DO need permission to retrieve, but if it is refused you should call his 800 number ASAP. He or one of his partners will attend and if the landowner does not want the animal, they will retrieve it. If the landowner does want the animal then he can get a possession permit, the same as a roadkill. The landowner will not be allowed to waste the animal.
At present there are notices in both local papers and on at least two local radio stations about two people who retrieved a deer from private property in the Coe Hill area. CrimeStoppers is also involved in the search.
The CO also pointed out that under the trespass laws, the landowner does NOT have liability unless they have set traps for trespassers.
I have told my neighbours that if they have a wounded animal they should not worry about our property line. One of them has had his lawyer send me a letter outlining what will happen if I set foot on his land....

---

I think the CO and you should read over the occupiers liability act.

I dont think there is any reasonable expectation of any CO or his partner to attend on private property and retrieve a deer.I would like to know what authority/statute they will be acting under?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoePa

So you save your money to buy land to hunt on - great - yes you can press charges on someone who comes on your land to retrieve a wounded deer without asking -you have every right to do that - but let me ask you - what harm is done anyway - and how many times would something like that happen - can't you just be a nice guy and let the guy get the deer - what's he gonna do - leave some foot prints on your precious land - remember there are a lot a guys who gave their lives so you can have the right to own property - or got all crippled up defending you - they didn't ask anything in return - and you can't even bend a little - gotta get the guy arrested - boy I'm glad that I don't live next to you -

---

By by the sounds of it I am also glad your not my neighbour. 2 yrs back I was cutting wood and I heard a 22 shot from the far end of my property. 15 mins later my daughter calls me on the cell there is a couple guys wanting to go rabbit hunting. I told her to tell them I am back cutting wood but if they wanted to come back later then no problem. Driving the tractor back I see a set of deer tracks that crossed the trail with a bit of blood. I walked the tracks and low and behold I come across 2 sets of human tracks that came in from the back side of my bush and followed the deer tracks for abit. Guess what same boot prints as the guys asking to rabbit hunt. Oh and deer season was done and as far as I know the deer made it as I checked its trail the next day and found where it beded and left after. And about bending a little my response is can't they ask for permission a little it's not hard to do. And good ploy to thro the good old war vets into the mix. They did lay their lives on the line and many gave thier life's and I am very grateful for that but seriously what does this have to do with trespassing? I have never denied a neighbour from hunting my land and probly never will unless I am hunting at the time, but they all know to give me a call first my phone is always on my side.

I thought we were only talking about a neighbor needing to go on an adjacent property to get a wounded deer - we kinda got off the track a little - I think - no one is advocating that you let ATVs or strangers hunting on your land or any of the other things that were brought up - I have some property that I use for hunting - I would have no problem if some guy followed a wounded deer unto my property without asking me - I would have a problem if some guy ran through it on a ATV or parked himself somewhere on it to hunt

What does a vet have to do with trespassing - heck maybe the trespasser following a wounded deer on to your property is a old vet who fought in WWII and was wounded in the Battle of the Bulge -

I believe if a hunter sets up his treestand knowing there is a possibility it will go on neighbors land, NO PERMISSION TO RETREIVE!!! I have to deal with this issue on my deeded land all the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

There is no harm done in allowing a hunter onto your property BUT how about unforseen circumstances.Right now I have a friend who is being sued by a trespassing City lawyer for a spill the trespasser took on a ATV.My friend refused to settle with the trespasser even although his lawyer advised it would be cheaper,on principal he refused to give a red cent to a trespasser.

So there is one example of a problem.Unfortunately for you JOE you come from a generation of STAND UP GUYS,who when they gave you a handshake it actually meant something.Today that is no longer the case.

Its actually easier and far safer for a landowner to refuse the entry.

---

Your friend will be OK,Gilroy. There's no way a trespasser can recover damages unless the landowner was negligent in not protecting a hazard like an open pit or protruding well head or some such. Lawyers are always advising clients to settle because they get paid immediately. I'm with your friend. I wouldn't give him a nickel,either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

The landowner can NOT be charged with "allowing game meat to spoil" because they didn't shoot it. If anything,we can be charged with littering and all costs for dead animal removal can be charged back to us. There's no way we can access anyone's private property without their express permission,so,it's our responsibility to ensure we have prior permission to enter neighboring property and if we don't,to make a quick,clean kill to ensure game doesn't get that far or don't take the shot. Trespassing will be the great undoing of hunting if we all don't have it crystal clear in our minds that everything we've ever heard that a hunting license gives us "carte blanche" to ignore private property and the CO's can force landowners to allow for retrieval is flat out BS.

---

Your quite wrong......if a property owner denies you permission to retrieve your game from his land.....it is now the owners responsibility to make every effort to retrieve and process the game before it spoils or YES they can and will be charged.....this I know first hand from an incident involving myself 1 year ago....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deerslayer99

Your quite wrong......if a property owner denies you permission to retrieve your game from his land.....it is now the owners responsibility to make every effort to retrieve and process the game before it spoils or YES they can and will be charged.....this I know first hand from an incident involving myself 1 year ago....

---

My understanding is the same as trimmer's. How does the CO determine that there actually is a dead deer that is spoiling? Neither he nor the hunter as access to the property to verify that - unless it dropped within sight of the hunter. Also if the landowner does not know where the deer is - how can he be charged for not retrieving it.

How did this all play out in your incident - from what I see happening in a normal situation of this type, I can't see charges being layed and if so absolutely no prospect of a conviction.

A landowner is in no way responsible for the actions of a hunter on an adjacent property. No way, not ever - your logic seems to make him responsible for the hunters action if he refuses entry.

This would reverse the way the trespass law works. It would essentially allow any trespassing for the purpose of retrieving game *unless* the landowner had a) the time, b) the capability (including hunting license and tag if the game was still alive) and c) the inclination to follow up on tracking, dispatching and retrieving the game.

Ontario's property laws aren't very good...but they are not that bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deerslayer99

Your quite wrong......if a property owner denies you permission to retrieve your game from his land.....it is now the owners responsibility to make every effort to retrieve and process the game before it spoils or YES they can and will be charged.....this I know first hand from an incident involving myself 1 year ago....

---

I hate to tell you,deerslayer99,but,if you were the landowner,somebody just sold you some Arizona swampland.

Quote:

---

36. (1) A hunter or trapper who kills game wildlife other than a furbearing mammal shall not abandon it if its flesh may become unsuitable for human consumption. 2009, c. 33, Sched. 22, s. 2 (18).
Spoiled flesh
(2) A person who possesses game wildlife that is not a furbearing mammal and that was hunted or trapped shall not permit its flesh to become unsuitable for human consumption. 2009, c. 33, Sched. 22, s. 2 (18).
Abandonment or spoilage of pelts
(3) A hunter or trapper who kills a furbearing mammal shall not abandon the pelt or permit the pelt to be spoiled or destroyed. 1997, c. 41, s. 36 (3).
Exceptions
(4) Subsection (3) does not apply in the circumstances prescribed by the regulations. 1997, c. 41, s. 36 (4).
Abandonment or spoilage of fish
(5) A person who takes a fish whose flesh is suitable for human consumption shall not,
(a) abandon the fish if its flesh may become unsuitable for human consumption; or
(b) permit the flesh to become unsuitable for human consumption. 1997, c. 41, s. 36 (5).
Exceptions
(6) Subsection (5) does not apply in the circumstances prescribed by the regulations. 1997, c. 41, s. 36 (6).

---

Above is the section from the FWCA that appears to deal with this issue of abandoning game. The hunter who kills it shall not abandon it. The person who possesses it the same. So if we can't trespass to retrieve without permission (and I agree that is the case) I would hope that as long as we have done what is reasonable to retrieve the game (contact the landowner for permission to get the animal, contact a C.O. if permission is denied) then we have done what we needed to avoid breaking the law. The landowner I think is not technically in possession so can't be charged with abandoning (in my interpretation) so it is an unfortunate issue at the end of the day. Hopefully the landowner will retrieve the game or get a friend who will.

The way I read it anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redd foxx

Above is the section from the FWCA that appears to deal with this issue of abandoning game. The hunter who kills it shall not abandon it. The person who possesses it the same. So if we can't trespass to retrieve without permission (and I agree that is the case) I would hope that as long as we have done what is reasonable to retrieve the game (contact the landowner for permission to get the animal, contact a C.O. if permission is denied) then we have done what we needed to avoid breaking the law. The landowner I think is not technically in possession so can't be charged with abandoning (in my interpretation) so it is an unfortunate issue at the end of the day. Hopefully the landowner will retrieve the game or get a friend who will.

The way I read it anyway.

---

Exactly. Section 36(2) states,specifically "and that has hunted or trapped shall not permit....". The landowner has done neither,therefore can't be charged with anything. In deerslayer99's case,someone may have simply BS'd their way through it with idle threats relying on a landowner's inability to quickly figure out when they're getting "snowed."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deerslayer99

Your quite wrong......if a property owner denies you permission to retrieve your game from his land.....it is now the owners responsibility to make every effort to retrieve and process the game before it spoils or YES they can and will be charged.....this I know first hand from an incident involving myself 1 year ago....

---

I,am with Trimmer and the rest of the gang on this one.

To prove any possession you need care,knowledge and control, none of which a landowner has in respect to another hunters un retrieved deer.

Suppose the landowner is to elderly or even infirm to go collect a deer,does this make him subject to the whim of the hunter.

If you want to take it to a crazy example lets say you clocked a deer with your truck,it hops farmer Browns fence and drops 100 yards into his corn field .Does the farmer or MNR need to do anything to help you retrieve this road kill.

I would be very interested in your incident from last year and how it played out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deerslayer99

Your quite wrong......if a property owner denies you permission to retrieve your game from his land.....it is now the owners responsibility to make every effort to retrieve and process the game before it spoils or YES they can and will be charged.....this I know first hand from an incident involving myself 1 year ago....

---

Ever heard the term " Bullshlt baffles brains "? It is a commonly used tool in certain vocations.

[QUOTE=Bushmoose;852715]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Gunner

Well Bushmoose

I have been hunting for 20 years now and I guess I'm one of those fools. My first reaction would be to finish that deer off, what kind of human would wast time letting an animal suffer while I deal with all the red tape and BS, Well I've been hunting for over 40 yrs and can tell you that common sense would dictate that you, as hunter, should have gotten the permission before your hunt. And then lo n behold, there would be no red tape and BS. To do otherwise is foolish.

Ok I have a few properties I hunt where the connecting property is owned by a person who lives in another city and one in another province for a matter of fact, and I have tried to find out who it is so that I can ask for permission to hunt the property but have not been successful what do you do in that situation, watch it cross the property line pack up and go home? leave it for dead and to rote? I guess YOU would have to right? You being the NOBEL, EXPERIENCED, LAW ABIDING Hunter you are, you would have no chose but to right? Now that is childish and foolish. And I am sure if you called any CO Officer and explained the situation he would be more then happy to let you do what you would have to do.

There are 2 sets of laws in this world Mans laws and Gods laws and Mans laws can be broken Gods can not. I would get the job done, tagged, harvest the deer and bring it back to my property and get it field dressed and in my freezer. That would be the ethical thing to do and i would like to see a co officer or judge hit you with fines for the doing the moral and ethical right doing. Come on people have we lost all our common scene here. Well carry on then? I sure will

I hate to admit it but I kind of agree with our american friend here, what kind of !*&$ would deny you permission and if he did I would be more concerned with the charges from the police after I was done tearing a strip off this person. It's easy to talk big here on the computer but the fact of the matter is you sound a bit childish in your comments.. You speak of ethics, but then you want to straighten out the C.O., the judge and the landowner. If you had the ethical forethought and consideration to get permission prior to the hunt, you would'nt be paying the huge fine that you will be paying one day if you keep that attitude. And oh, don't forget about the part where the police or the CO puts the cuffs on you for being belligerent on scene? They will do that you know. :D



No its not easy to talk big on the computer because unfortunately it lacks the true emotion i'm feeling as if I was able to say this face to face, plus it doesn't allow me to use my chose of words I really want to use so no it is not easy.

I never one said I would straighten out a C.O. officer or judge that would be stupid, I said "I would find it hard for a C.O. officer or judge to fine someone in that situation" Please don not put words in my mouth in order to make yourself look righteous that is "CHILDISH"
Look, do all people think of these CO officers as evil fine wielding demons, Yes they have a job to do and a hard one at that, probably have to read through alot of BS to see what is true or not but at the end of the day they are human, the same with police, opp and judges. so back to my statement I really dont think if you lawfully shoot a deer and it went on another property that you may not have permission to hunt on or dont know the owner I highly doubt they would give you a fine. Nore would a opp, police or judge, this is one of those stupid man laws that you can break



There is a difference between ETHICAL AND LAWFUL

Now as for my landowner comment about tearing a strip off them, I stick to that and I can be really good at that, then I would turn around and walk right in and get it,

not to mention the lack of funds and resources the mnrf has now a days, they really want to come and deal with this situation.







so to answer yes I would ask first but if I didn't ask or they refused I would still go anyways see above, no you see above

---

thank you

I find it real hard to believe that an OPP officer wanted you to tag a road kill as I would believe that in itself is wrong due to the fact your tag is only for legally taken game not road kill. Any road kill I pick up I always get the reporting officers business card and keep it with the deer. The last one hit in front of my house the officer had never seen one gutted so asked if he could watch. Sure was nice having someone hold the light :)
i would love for someone like yourself to tear a strip off me on my land cause you wouldn't get permission after that to hunt a deer close enough to here that would run onto mine or for that matter any land within a good couple of miles of here.
but back to the original topic, do yourself and all other hunters a real great dead and get permission and don't just trespass as it leaves a real bad taste in land owners mouths

Big Gunner,

There is no gray area and ethical or lawful.

If you take care and do your homework there is no dilemma.A road killed animal MUST BE REPORTED IMMEDIATELY.If you intend to keep it this is required.What is then also required is a PERMIT TO POSSESS the said deer.There is not one LEO or CO working the road in a rural area that does not know this very basic requirement.Its in the hunting regulations year after year.

The same permit would be required if you accidently killed a snowy owl and might want to keep it.

If landowners have no rights to refuse entry what makes their land any different from Crown land.What exactly are we paying property taxes for.

A lot of the BS that is written on these forums are from hunters who WANT IT THEIR WAY and feel the need to muddy the waters with stories of what they want to justify.When a Justice of the Peace drops the hammer on some of these guys the grey goes out the window along with the muddy waters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deerslayer99

Your quite wrong......if a property owner denies you permission to retrieve your game from his land.....it is now the owners responsibility to make every effort to retrieve and process the game before it spoils or YES they can and will be charged.....this I know first hand from an incident involving myself 1 year ago....

---

You are wrong....please provide some proof of what you are talking about...Please tell us your incident.

You mean to tell me the 75 year old farmer widow who won't let someone on her property for a wounded deer has to go and retrieve and process it??? Yeahhh ok.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gooseman

I find it real hard to believe that an OPP officer wanted you to tag a road kill as I would believe that in itself is wrong due to the fact your tag is only for legally taken game not road kill. Any road kill I pick up I always get the reporting officers business card and keep it with the deer. The last one hit in front of my house the officer had never seen one gutted so asked if he could watch. Sure was nice having someone hold the light :)
i would love for someone like yourself to tear a strip off me on my land cause you wouldn't get permission after that to hunt a deer close enough to here that would run onto mine or for that matter any land within a good couple of miles of here.
but back to the original topic, do yourself and all other hunters a real great dead and get permission and don't just trespass as it leaves a real bad taste in land owners mouths

---

Gooseman is right....it would be illegal to tag a road kill....or a deer that someone else shot UNLESS you were party hunting. But a permit to possess it is required.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Big Gunner,

There is no gray area and ethical or lawful.

If you take care and do your homework there is no dilemma.A road killed animal MUST BE REPORTED IMMEDIATELY.If you intend to keep it this is required.What is then also required is a PERMIT TO POSSESS the said deer.There is not one LEO or CO working the road in a rural area that does not know this very basic requirement.Its in the hunting regulations year after year.

The same permit would be required if you accidently killed a snowy owl and might want to keep it.

If landowners have no rights to refuse entry what makes their land any different from Crown land.What exactly are we paying property taxes for.

A lot of the BS that is written on these forums are from hunters who WANT IT THEIR WAY and feel the need to muddy the waters with stories of what they want to justify.When a Justice of the Peace drops the hammer on some of these guys the grey goes out the window along with the muddy waters.

---

Well said....especially the last paragraph.

It seems the majority of the problems with regards to this come from bad blood/pissing matches between hunters and not so much from landowners unless they are very staunch anti-hunters or if there is some existing bad blood. What is the common theme here? Yep you guessed it....bad blood. The old you F with me I'll F with you attitude kicks in. Any reasonable person is not going to refuse any reasonable person from retrieving an injured/dead animal from their property. The problem is when people start to be unreasonable and sometime it doesn't take much to get there. I live in the country and own property and have permission to hunt on adjacent properties to mine but don't have permission to hunt on several other adjacent properties. If I shot a deer and if it ran onto one of these properties and expired how I handled it would depend on where on the property it was. If it was at the back of the property no where near the house and the owner didn't know I was even there. I would just go and get it, drag it back to my property and be done with it. If it was out in the middle of their field somewhere near the house where the owner could see me I would go and knock on the door and tell them what I was doing so they weren't wondering what was going on out in their field. I would expect the same courtesy on my property. Right or wrong this is how I would do it. If you've gotten yourself into a situation where you have to get the authorities involved then you're either dealing with a very unreasonable person or you've done something to make that person unreasonable..

Just my .2 cents.

Gooseman I agree. Under the FWCA for roadkill, all a person must do is when they get home (with the roadkill) is fill an online form called "notice of possession" free of cost, fill it out, print it off, and than your legal with taking your roadkill. Now there will be exceptions for this however it does apply to big game, specially protected raptors, and fur bearers that i know of. So that officer would be in the wrong. Now, to the point of an officer entering private land (trespass). They are authorized to do so when acting under the act, not only can they enter the land, BUT they can authorize a person to enter the land under their direction, with or without the officer for the purpose of assisting the officer. For the example that was brought up, an officer acting under the FWCA may enter onto private land to retrieve a deer, RG would be very easy to obtain IMO. At the same time, I do believe if a person is acting under good faith and retrieving (trespassing) the deer it would be hard to convict them, however the onus will be on them to prove they were retrieving it under good faith, and not just hunting/trespassing to hunt and to prove all due diligence possible IMO. (bad shot, deer managed to travel 250+ yards) This is just my 2 cents, but i agree and think that if a person doesn't do all their due diligence and a injured deer MAY/COULD be able to go to their surrounding properties within REASON (i.e.. property is 500 yards away - well does a deer normally go that far after a kill shot, generally no, however a property is 45 yards away from a stand - than yes you better ask because it is reasonable for a wounded deer to travel that far, than if they get refused then yes, the person would be at their fault and should not be able to get their deer. However a property is 500+ yards a way, a bad shot happens, or something happens where the deer travels to the property, yes they do deserve to get their deer with or without permission IMO, because would a reasonable person believe a deer wounded lung shot would travel that far etc etc.

I like this topic, and all the input;

NOP link

http://www.forms.ssb.gov.on.ca/mbs/s...E&NO=018-0427E

Blake

Another point, I do believe if a person willingly knows that a deer is on his property he would be allowing it to spoil. This refers back to the whole smoking pot in your buddies car. (ie. Your out driving with your buddies in your car, they have marijuanna on them, get pulled over and caught, you can all be charged for possession, yes you don't have it or agree with it but still can be charged - same thing goes for the deer on some ones land, you know its their, you allow it to spoil, than yes IMO you can be charged). When it comes before the courts your going to be asked, ya the hunter did say a deer went onto your property, a CO did find a dead deer on your property, but did you do everything to see if it was still on your property?...oh no you didn't? well than your due diligence is out the window and the onus on you that yes there was a deer that was on your property that was spoiled. However IMO an officer would have to prove that a deer did actually spoil; and the hunter asked the property owner/ a CO before their was any charge..

blake

You make some good points but I disagree with a couple things. A landowner has no responsibility to go and retrieve a deer on his property, even if he knows it is there. The landowner did not shoot the deer nor was he involved in hunting it. What if a road kill deer runs on his property....is he responsible for that too??

A CO needs to be acting under the FWCA to enter private property. I'm not so sure that someone saying their deer ran onto the private property would fall under "acting under the act".

If you can get a CO to attend (and thats a big if), I'm sure he would try and help you get access, but I don't believe he has the authority to enter private land or give you permission to, based on what is being discussed here.

Furthermore, you are using a "possession" in a federal act versus "possession" in a provincial act, and they are not necessarily the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

Some people believe it's better to beg forgiveness than to ask permission.

---

I thought that was the strategy to be used when dealing with your spouse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gooseman

I find it real hard to believe that an OPP officer wanted you to tag a road kill as I would believe that in itself is wrong due to the fact your tag is only for legally taken game not road kill. Any road kill I pick up I always get the reporting officers business card and keep it with the deer. The last one hit in front of my house the officer had never seen one gutted so asked if he could watch. Sure was nice having someone hold the light :)
i would love for someone like yourself to tear a strip off me on my land cause you wouldn't get permission after that to hunt a deer close enough to here that would run onto mine or for that matter any land within a good couple of miles of here.
but back to the original topic, do yourself and all other hunters a real great dead and get permission and don't just trespass as it leaves a real bad taste in land owners mouths

---

He did just that. It was my first time every get a hit deer and this was about 6 years ago.

Also your saying you would not allow someone on your land to get a downed or wounded deer, why? And if you didn't allow me and then finding out you were also a hunter then I would have to believe you were a thief and not allowing me just to get my deer for yourself. I would loose my mind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brent

You make some good points but I disagree with a couple things. A landowner has no responsibility to go and retrieve a deer on his property, even if he knows it is there. The landowner did not shoot the deer nor was he involved in hunting it. What if a road kill deer runs on his property....is he responsible for that too??

A CO needs to be acting under the FWCA to enter private property. I'm not so sure that someone saying their deer ran onto the private property would fall under "acting under the act".

If you can get a CO to attend (and thats a big if), I'm sure he would try and help you get access, but I don't believe he has the authority to enter private land or give you permission to, based on what is being discussed here.

Furthermore, you are using a "possession" in a federal act versus "possession" in a provincial act, and they are not necessarily the same.

---

36. (1) A hunter or trapper who kills game wildlife other than a furbearing mammal shall not abandon it if its flesh may become unsuitable for human consumption. 2009, c. 33, Sched. 22, s. 2 (18).
Spoiled flesh
(2) A person who possesses game wildlife that is not a furbearing mammal and that was hunted or trapped shall not permit its flesh to become unsuitable for human consumption. 2009, c. 33, Sched. 22, s. 2 (18).

This is what I am looking at when I say a landowner 'could' have responsibility. To me, and my interpretation of the act of subsection 36(2), a person who possess game wildlife that was hunted shall not permit its flesh to become unsuitable for human consumption...what I am looking at here is, it does not say the person that shot it, it says game wildlife that WAS hunted. (my interpretation may be wrong, your right, but it is opinion base, and for the courts to decide). But to me, this is saying a wounded deer (wounded from being hunted) is now on another's property (in his possession) may be held responsible as he is allowing it to waste. Thus being said, does not say anything about roadkill etc.

S. 94 of the act says enter on to private property, and S. 91 talks about inspecting. If the deer was being hunted, and the CO can prove their was a deer shot rather than hearsay(word of mouth) than yes he could gain RG to inspect if the deer was shot legally/illegally. This may be iffy to, or looking to make reasons to enter the property...IMO

Now that being said, Brent, I do believe you are right and S.94 only obtains to something in the CO's case such as a biologist, ballistic specialist, technician etc etc not a person that was hunting..

To my knowledge if there is no possession in the FWCA; they can refer to federal or other provincial acts,

I would say that applies to the "hunter". The property owner was not the one that hunted that animal so I don't think they could be held responsible. Not saying it makes it right but I don't think they could be charged if they didn't allow the person to come on their property and the meat spoiled.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blakev

36. (1) A hunter or trapper who kills game wildlife other than a furbearing mammal shall not abandon it if its flesh may become unsuitable for human consumption. 2009, c. 33, Sched. 22, s. 2 (18).
Spoiled flesh
(2) A person who possesses game wildlife that is not a furbearing mammal and that was hunted or trapped shall not permit its flesh to become unsuitable for human consumption. 2009, c. 33, Sched. 22, s. 2 (18).

This is what I am looking at when I say a landowner 'could' have responsibility. To me, and my interpretation of the act of subsection 36(2), a person who possess game wildlife that was hunted shall not permit its flesh to become unsuitable for human consumption...what I am looking at here is, it does not say the person that shot it, it says game wildlife that WAS hunted. (my interpretation may be wrong, your right, but it is opinion base, and for the courts to decide). But to me, this is saying a wounded deer (wounded from being hunted) is now on another's property (in his possession) may be held responsible as he is allowing it to waste. Thus being said, does not say anything about roadkill etc.

S. 94 of the act says enter on to private property, and S. 91 talks about inspecting. If the deer was being hunted, and the CO can prove their was a deer shot rather than hearsay(word of mouth) than yes he could gain RG to inspect if the deer was shot legally/illegally. This may be iffy to, or looking to make reasons to enter the property...IMO

Now that being said, Brent, I do believe you are right and S.94 only obtains to something in the CO's case such as a biologist, ballistic specialist, technician etc etc not a person that was hunting..

To my knowledge if there is no possession in the FWCA; they can refer to federal or other provincial acts,

---

Seriously? A landowner is not in possession period.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

I hate to tell you,deerslayer99,but,if you were the landowner,somebody just sold you some Arizona swampland.

---

Well lets just say Trimmer 21 and Werner that $2350 plus victim surcharge fines were imposed for doing what a lot of you think is ok BUT isn't......long story short.....deer was shot on a property with permission....we tracked it and found it on another property who we had no idea who owned it...field dressed the deer and went on our merry way......the next day CO's and cops were all over us......all this for a simple trespassing and a deer involved......there is no set fine for trespassing, its whatever they want to impose.....so don't tell me someone sold me some Arizona swampland.....until you have it happen to you and know what the law is.....be quite about issues you can only assume on......

There is a lot more laws involved with how this could have played out also if we knew the owner and were denied.....YES the landowner has to make every effort to retrieve the deer and have it processed properly or YES they can be charged.......

One thing I can say for sure, Osgoode Hall has nothing, and I mean nothing, on this thread! Mind boggling!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deerslayer99

Well lets just say Trimmer 21 and Werner that $2350 plus victim surcharge fines were imposed for doing what a lot of you think is ok BUT isn't......long story short.....deer was shot on a property with permission....we tracked it and found it on another property who we had no idea who owned it...field dressed the deer and went on our merry way......the next day CO's and cops were all over us......all this for a simple trespassing and a deer involved......there is no set fine for trespassing, its whatever they want to impose.....so don't tell me someone sold me some Arizona swampland.....until you have it happen to you and know what the law is.....be quite about issues you can only assume on......

---

So basicaly what your telling us is you got caught trespassing while retrieving a deer, then without getting permission to be on that land then you got what was deserved. Did you learn from it, I would hope so and hopefully word spread to your hunting friends that you just can't wander onto everyone's property without first asking for permission.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gooseman

So basicaly what your telling us is you got caught trespassing while retrieving a deer, then without getting permission to be on that land then you got what was deserved. Did you learn from it, I would hope so and hopefully word spread to your hunting friends that you just can't wander onto everyone's property without first asking for permission.

---

BINGO!! I'd like to read the incident report on this one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bushmoose

One thing I can say for sure, Osgoode Hall has nothing, and I mean nothing, on this thread! Mind boggling!

---

There's lot's of lawyers,judges and ex-LEO's on here that really know what they're talking about. There's also lots of other hunters and anglers that THINK they know. A little knowledge is a very dangerous thing.

The LAND OWNER is NOT Responsible for game retrival .. he can let it rot and there is Jack the hunter or the co can do . the above case would have lots of fines tresspassing possesion of a illeagle deer transportation of a ileagle deer for each hunter involved they could confisacate your quad truck rifle ect anything involved in the illeagle act of the ileagle hunt .

also if a hunter shoots a deer and askes landowner to get deer and the owner says no and the owner gets deer they do not need a licence to posses a shot deer just a simple call to the mnr office to talk to a co and the deer is theirs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

There's lot's of lawyers,judges and ex-LEO's on here that really know what they're talking about. There's also lots of other hunters and anglers that THINK they know. A little knowledge is a very dangerous thing.

---

The ex LEO's are the ones I will listen to, the others are just blowing smoke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deerslayer99

Well lets just say Trimmer 21 and Werner that $2350 plus victim surcharge fines were imposed for doing what a lot of you think is ok BUT isn't......long story short.....deer was shot on a property with permission....we tracked it and found it on another property who we had no idea who owned it...field dressed the deer and went on our merry way......the next day CO's and cops were all over us......all this for a simple trespassing and a deer involved......there is no set fine for trespassing, its whatever they want to impose.....so don't tell me someone sold me some Arizona swampland.....until you have it happen to you and know what the law is.....be quite about issues you can only assume on......

---

The reference to swampland, I believe, was to your statement about the landowner assuming responsibility if they deny access, not that you could be charged/convicted for this. I think everyone here accepts that as the way the law works.

Also, I'd guess that your trespass fine was trespass to hunt, not simple trespass - because aside from the hunting aspect of it, you haven't posted anything that indicates you broke simple trespass laws (land was posted, standing crops, staying after being asked to leave- that stuff).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deerslayer99

There is a lot more laws involved with how this could have played out also if we knew the owner and were denied.....YES the landowner has to make every effort to retrieve the deer and have it processed properly or YES they can be charged.......

---

Are you talking deadstock disposal laws or EPA type laws? Can you quote an Act or section? Asking politely. Very curious as it may one day affect me.

Wow, 10 pages of this crap

Werner.....where the deer was shot, we had permission to hunt....this is up north also......we tracked it onto property where we got permission to retrieve it....we tracked it and it crossed the road....this is where we found it on property we had no clue who owned.....100 yards off the road.....no signs, no fences, no nothing and also a hydro cut was between us and the deer....we could see her laying there from the hydro cut....just inside this section of property we didn't know who owned it....we made a decision to just go and get her.....she was right there right....wrong....at this point it was dark....someone seen the blood in the morning, called the MNR/cops....they were everywhere.....were the only group in this area hunting so it wasn't hard to do there onsite investigation and when we got stopped we told the truth that yes it was us who shot it.....thinking ok, we will get a simple trespassing charge....wrong again.....its amazing how fast charges can amount to over a simple thing.....and don't kid yourself, lots of guys on here would have done the same thing.....we did think about calling the MNR to see if we could just go get her and not have to wait until whenever for them to show up but decided not to and just do it.....its not like we were night hunting, poaching, endangering lives of people but the way it went down was crazy....I honestly would to have like to have known the exact conversation/ complaint because it was like a huge drug bust went down with the amount of CO's and cops around....so thinking this was going to be ok turned into a nightmare....god forbid the ones who actually go out and do poach illegally and get caught.......the CO told me we have to get permission and so do they to go onto there property....all one can do is walk straight to door and walk straight back off the land if denied .....the CO would then explain to them what there legal obligation is now since there is a downed animal on there property possibly and that they CANNOT let it spoil or they now are held liable, most owners at this point say go get it.....I asked in court also about this and yes its true....the owner takes all liability now in making sure it is processed and not let to spoil....if not, charges will be laid......

Mark270wsm......the land owner cannot let it rot knowingly....I was in court, not you, this is what was explained

Gooseman.....we were under the impression we could track wounded game....had we known who owned it, we would have asked....

Mount Sweetness.....I don't think this is crap at all...stop reading it then but there is people who are misunderstood for things and think they know everything when it comes to hunting and fishing laws but actually know jack ......even I didn't think it was going to be this big of a deal over a simple trespassing charge but it was.....a lot of people think the same way as I did with this given issue.....didn't think we would get 3 charges out of this.....between the 3 of us it was $3200 in total fines and my case was dropped as I was not sworn in before the court so the total would have been $6000....ALL OVER A SIMPLE TRESPASSING ACT......

Sounds like u were hit really hard by the courts. Normally when this happens there is more to it then meets the eye.

As for landowner being charged I think that is complete and utter BS.

Is the landowner in possession of all animals on his land????
Prove the landowner knows the deer is there.
Prove the deer is actually on the landowners property.

A few things that need to be taken into consideration.

Brent.....nothing more to it at all......have nothing to hide and that is why we admitted to it instead of playing stupid.....as Mark270wsm posted with the charges, they were the charges....once you do an illegal act all your legal acts become illegal...ie.....tagging of deer became now an illegal tagged deer, trespassing, transporting of an illegal deer etc etc......total BS in my eyes but this is what happened and that was that.....hit hard yes we were....the guy before us in court shot a cow moose thinking it was a calf.....$500 fine and loss of license for 1 year plus retake the hunter safety course.....we never loss our privileges thank god.....

Brent.....once the CO makes the landowner aware of a downed animal on there land and they do nothing about it is when they can get into trouble.....that is what we were told....

Good read Deerslayer - but you made one very big mistake - and I understand why you did it - was admitting that it was your group that shot and got the deer - that's why it is best not to say anything - you would be surprised how many people get themselves into trouble because they talk too much - any lawyer will advise you to not say anything when asked - and provide only information required by law at the time - even if your group was the only ones hunting in that area doesn't mean that you were the guilty party - someone driving by could have seen the deer and taken it - it would have been very difficult for them to prove that it was you who took the deer - I take it no one actually saw you go and get it -

under provincial law there is no set fine fee....that is how everyone can get different $$ amounts for the same offence......discriminatory in my eyes but it is what it is.....we will never get it changed.....especially with our case....the guy who shot the deer only got a $350 fine for trespassing and the other guy in party $1000 for the same thing.....

JoePa......a vehicle went past us with the deer on our ATV after dark.....I believe it all stemmed from this and that is why I would really liked to have known what the actual complaint was and what lies were told to get so much heat in to investigate

The landowner is not obligated to find and/or use the animal.
If the landowner does use the animal, they must report the acquisition

right from the mnr... you had a bad lawyer

JoePa.....had we kept our mouths shut and went the lawyer route it would have went on for years probably and cost us a lot more in lawyer bills than what the set fines were so we didn't want to do this....at least mine was dropped which cut the cost in fines in half......honestly we never in our wildest dreams thought so much would have come out of simply walking into a bush to retrieve our animal.....never again.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mark270wsm

The landowner is not obligated to find and/or use the animal.
If the landowner does use the animal, they must report the acquisition

right from the mnr... you had a bad lawyer

---

It was the MNR who told us this.....the CO that is

pm to deerslayer99

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deerslayer99

JoePa......a vehicle went past us with the deer on our ATV after dark.....I believe it all stemmed from this and that is why I would really liked to have known what the actual complaint was and what lies were told to get so much heat in to investigate

---

Thanks for the response - I'm somewhat confused - you never even found out what they were charging you for - heck maybe they thought you were poaching at night or whatever - unless you told them how did they even know who was hunting with you - as I said earlier - I would have not said anything - without any information how can they charge you with anything - boy - strange things can happen up there -

JoePa.....they asked us straight up if we were hunting in this specific spot which I may add is only a few hundred yards away from the cottage/camp.....I said no not hunting but yes we retrieved our deer from there....then it just went from there.....im an honest person and I wasn't going to lie about anything.....they took our statements and at the end of the day and this took all day I might add they said we would be charged....summons for court will be sent in the mail and we were back up there in 2 weeks for court.....the initial charge was trespassing.....

yup they followed the blood trail to the shooting site... there is tons of other charges followed by trespassing .. just like not tagging a animal correctly ... if you get caught doing that then the charges really add up .. fast and expensive... and if you give a false statement and sign it and they find out different .. its huge fine for liying to a officer ..... been there done that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deerslayer99

JoePa......a vehicle went past us with the deer on our ATV after dark.....I believe it all stemmed from this and that is why I would really liked to have known what the actual complaint was and what lies were told to get so much heat in to investigate

---

I'll bet money you were reported as jack lighters. The vehicle that drove by wouldn't have happened to get your vehicle license numbers,would they? Maybe,local hunters out to screw over "out-of-towners"? The OMNR needed to have that info just to have a starting point. From what you've said,the CO's would have walked your tracks back,all the way to were you said you shot at the Deer. If your info didn't add up,it would look like they had you cold for trespassing to hunt,jack-lighting (poaching) and anything else they can lay on you.They would certainly have there information correct before the charges were laid. Like,it's not there first time at the dance. The fact the JP wasn't buying any of the alibis bears that out. It's never ceased to amaze me how easy it is to get into shyte. A couple of dumb mistakes and you're screwed,like assuming,incorrectly,that it's OK to trespass to retrieve game without reporting it. That would have ended the entire scenario.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deerslayer99

Brent.....once the CO makes the landowner aware of a downed animal on there land and they do nothing about it is when they can get into trouble.....that is what we were told....

---

I believe that is what u were told but i also believe it is incorrect.

Unless the deer is laying dead in sight how does the CO actually know it is?

What if the landowner is not home and cannot retrieve it? Will he be charged when he returns if it has spoiled? What if they where physically incapable of retrieving it?

Again I believe that's what you were told but I believe it is completely wrong. Give the MNR a call and ask them.

The OPP officer that told you you had to tag a road kill is 100% completely wrong and told you to do an illegal act.

Brent......lol.....wasn't me that mentioned about the OPP tagging road kill.....that was someone else

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brent

I believe that is what u were told but i also believe it is incorrect.

Unless the deer is laying dead in sight how does the CO actually know it is?

What if the landowner is not home and cannot retrieve it? Will he be charged when he returns if it has spoiled? What if they where physically incapable of retrieving it?

Again I believe that's what you were told but I believe it is completely wrong. Give the MNR a call and ask them.

The OPP officer that told you you had to tag a road kill is 100% completely wrong and told you to do an illegal act.

---

Absolutely agree on all counts. Thr FWCAct is very explicit. The OPP that said that,if reported,could be in shyte up to his eyeballs. It just goes to show that a lot of OPP officers haven't a clue about the FWCA enforcement. Been there and saw it,first hand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deerslayer99

Mount Sweetness.....I don't think this is crap at all...stop reading it then but there is people who are misunderstood for things and think they know everything when it comes to hunting and fishing laws but actually know jack ......even I didn't think it was going to be this big of a deal over a simple trespassing charge but it was.....a lot of people think the same way as I did with this given issue.....didn't think we would get 3 charges out of this.....between the 3 of us it was $3200 in total fines and my case was dropped as I was not sworn in before the court so the total would have been $6000....ALL OVER A SIMPLE TRESPASSING ACT......

---

their you go trespassers,read and remember. One illegal act makes everything thing you do illegal. And please lie as well.
i lost a deer and a CO informed me I should have called him. Why?? The other property owner might have tagged it with his tag instead of calling for a free tag. It's ILLEGAL TO TAG ANOTHER PERSON deer except when party hunting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mount Sweetness

Wow, 10 pages of this crap

---

Don't let your mouse rule your life. If it isn't interesting or entertaining, and if you have nothing to add, then why post.

I myself have learned the huge difference between the consequences of being found guilty of simple trespass and trespass while hunting.
I am also adding all of the neighbors numbers who I might need to go on to retrieve game, as well as the local MNR and non 911 OPP to my cell phone. A simple phone call could have prevented Deerslayers predicament.

Trespassing is a bigger problem than road hunting. In the past 5 years almost 50 percent of people in Canada and the USA are now against hunters. It's not the property owners causing the problem. It's the so called hunters that have been given permission to hunt. Like myself , farm owners are getting rid of the trouble makers by taking back the farms and posting them. I've been battling trespassers for almost 20 years andnow they make me sick .

I recall this incident shortly after it happened Deerslayer 99 and our convo we had . I felt you were innocent when you recovered the deer and why you came to the conclusion you did when you made the recovery but as you know that one city clown who moved to that area thinks he owns the whole lake and controls everything in that area . How many times has he called MNR ,OPP and Fire Marshall etc on folks ? LOTS . He is a harasser . He has been nothing but trouble since the day he moved there .

TD

You know it 400BB......Karma is a biotch......matter of time

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 400bigbear

I recall this incident shortly after it happened Deerslayer 99 and our convo we had . I felt you were innocent when you recovered the deer and why you came to the conclusion you did when you made the recovery but as you know that one city clown who moved to that area thinks he owns the whole lake and controls everything in that area . How many times has he called MNR ,OPP and Fire Marshall etc on folks ? LOTS . He is a harasser . He has been nothing but trouble since the day he moved there .
TD

---

This is what I've been waiting for in this scenario. Clearly there is an issue in this area with hunters/trespassers. This guy is relentless in reporting it and I'm sure has caused the MNRF and OPP all kinds of grief "for not doing anything about it" (hear that one all the time). This was their opportunity to lay a charge, set an example and quiet the complainer down. Deerslayer99 and his group were in the wrong place at the wrong time and made a mistake. Now....If you knew about this guy previously (which it sounds like maybe some did) and you did what you did, then you should have known better. It's like speeding through a small town when you know there is always a radar trap set up...you're just asking for a ticket.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angus

I am also adding all of the neighbors numbers who I might need to go on to retrieve game, as well as the local MNR and non 911 OPP to my cell phone. A simple phone call could have prevented Deerslayers predicament.

---

The OP asked about getting permission BEFORE the season started. Just in case sort of thing? Having phone numbers in your phone and then calling AFTER the shot, might leave you sitting and waiting for that permission for a long time if you can't get in touch with them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 400bigbear

I recall this incident shortly after it happened Deerslayer 99 and our convo we had . I felt you were innocent when you recovered the deer and why you came to the conclusion you did when you made the recovery but as you know that one city clown who moved to that area thinks he owns the whole lake and controls everything in that area . How many times has he called MNR ,OPP and Fire Marshall etc on folks ? LOTS . He is a harasser . He has been nothing but trouble since the day he moved there .

TD

---

Well - I'll tell you something - down here a guy like that would be dealt with in such a matter that he would soon realize that country living wasn't suited for him and he would move back to the city - we don't put up with that kind of crap -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LondonDave

This is what I've been waiting for in this scenario. Clearly there is an issue in this area with hunters/trespassers. This guy is relentless in reporting it and I'm sure has caused the MNRF and OPP all kinds of grief "for not doing anything about it" (hear that one all the time). This was their opportunity to lay a charge, set an example and quiet the complainer down. Deerslayer99 and his group were in the wrong place at the wrong time and made a mistake. Now....If you knew about this guy previously (which it sounds like maybe some did) and you did what you did, then you should have known better. It's like speeding through a small town when you know there is always a radar trap set up...you're just asking for a ticket.

---

Actually not any issues with hunters or trespassers just this clown harassing folks even when they icefish legally and even are camping on the lake and having a fire to heat and eat . There is crown there too . Replacing an existing deck is also allowed but oh no this guy calls building enforcement . He's a vindictive weasel just out there to cause grief . He thinks everything , including fish and wildlife is for him and his camp . I could go on and on about this clown .

TD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoePa

Well - I'll tell you something - down here a guy like that would be dealt with in such a matter that he would soon realize that country living wasn't suited for him and he would move back to the city - we don't put up with that kind of crap -

---

It happens like that up here,too,Joe. It just seems to take a lot more to get the average Canadian fed up enough to take the bull by the horns and mete out some backwoods justice. He certainly wouldn't be the first and for damn sure won't be the last citiot to leave with their tails between their legs,either. I could tell you cases that would do The Black Donnelly's proud. Oops,forgot that you're south of the border. Google The Black Donnelly's of Lucan,Ontario. Our history certainly isn't squeeky clean,either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bushmoose

The OP asked about getting permission BEFORE the season started. Just in case sort of thing? Having phone numbers in your phone and then calling AFTER the shot, might leave you sitting and waiting for that permission for a long time if you can't get in touch with them.

---

The OP had a great idea and that is the right way to do it. I am talking neighbors miles away, since my farm and the neighbors on either side , where I have permission, makes it miles of tracking. Better safe than sorry. And if I get stuck I will call MNR/OPP and explain my situation. Then go get my deer.

If I am denied permission to retrieve my deer, I'll get back in the stand and make a better shot on the next one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 400bigbear

Actually not any issues with hunters or trespassers just this clown harassing folks even when they icefish legally and even are camping on the lake and having a fire to heat and eat . There is crown there too . Replacing an existing deck is also allowed but oh no this guy calls building enforcement . He's a vindictive weasel just out there to cause grief . He thinks everything , including fish and wildlife is for him and his camp . I could go on and on about this clown .

TD

---

That's a shame. Terrible how one person with twisted ideals can make life so miserable for so many others.

While I agree that the landowner will not be held responsible for any wildlife that dies and "goes to waste" on his land, there is a subtle difference between that and ENSURING that it goes to waste by trying to prevent its retrieval. That is what our CO was alluding to...and why he wants to be called.
In our area there are also people growing other crops besides venison....who do not want anyone poking around, especially LEOs.
Often the CO is just looking for a valid reason to enter a certain section of land thinking that there may be other illegal activities, the knowledge of which they can share with OPP in return for "future favors".

Ahhh yes . The Black Donnelly's . Country justice at its finest. That brought back memories.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angus

The OP had a great idea and that is the right way to do it.

---

Exactly! And that what this whole thread started out as. But it's gone from that to Perry Mason in a few short winks. Chest puffing, arguing, phony internet bravado, and ridiculous legal advice. The question was simply, should a person get permission prior to their hunt. The obvious answer is YES? Nothing more, nothing less? To not get it PRIOR to the hunt is foolish and those that don't get it PRIOR to their hunt are fools? Nothing more, nothing less.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bushmoose

Exactly! And that what this whole thread started out as. But it's gone from that to Perry Mason in a few short winks. Chest puffing, arguing, phony internet bravado, and ridiculous legal advice. The question was simply, should a person get permission prior to their hunt. The obvious answer is YES? Nothing more, nothing less? To not get it PRIOR to the hunt is foolish and those that don't get it PRIOR to their hunt are fools? Nothing more, nothing less.

---

Unexpected things happen in the bush. Having a little background of how others have dealt with the legal implications of those happenings makes us all better prepared. Even those members of the board who have gone awry of the law, and maybe especially them, have something to teach or share with us. Sometimes in a thread like this it is not the destination or the journey to the end of the thread, it's the people you meet along the way. May sound like more BS to you but that's how I view threads like this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mark270wsm

also if a hunter shoots a deer and askes landowner to get deer and the owner says no and the owner gets deer they do not need a licence to posses a shot deer just a simple call to the mnr office to talk to a co and the deer is theirs

---

Mark,

I believe you might be wrong here.LOL The landowner would need to cover himself for any possession of deer meat,especially in this circumstance where a aggrieved hunter would drop a dime on him and claim he was in possession of a deer either being tagged which the landowner COULD NOT DO or alternately have a permit to possess.

So I agree a phone call is needed and the CO then could decide to issue a permit OR if the CO decides he/she could seize the deer and have it otherwise disposed of.

I believe the issuance of a permit is at the discretion of the CO.

Deerslayer,

Your circumstance of being charged was rather unfortunate and althought it sounds pretty anal,the previous advice from the MNR is pretty straighforward.

If you find yourself having to track a wounded deer and its getting near end of legal hours.The guns have to be encased period and a phone call made to the nearest MNR office or 800 number after hours.

They have indicated they will entertain permission to allow you to follow up on tracking that deer.

Having done that you take away any allegations about night poaching and so forth.Now your entry onto private land might still have you dropped in ka,ka but at least you have the back up call you made to the MNR.

Had you made that call things may have ended better,the complainant for the trespass could have been informed that the MNR were aware you were out looking and conveyed that to the complainant.

I know in real life there is a good possibility the MNR may not get back to you BUT THE CALL YOU MADE at least covers you for trying to ensure a deer did not spoil.

If the MNR did not show,you phone records the attempt.I would then call the OPP and try via them,as they have direct contact.

UNFORTUNATELY YOU LEFT YOURSELF WIDE OPEN.

Just a little story for you guys and how things CAN work out if you do the right thing.

About 10 years ago on the last day of Moose hunting season I dropped into a friends hunting camp to say hi and goodbye for the season.Its 10am in the morning and 5 guys are milling around the porch looking rather sheepish.I had stopped hunting because early that day it was pea soup fog and real hard to see.

Anyway the story comes out that they see a Cow and Calf cross the road in front of their truck and head towards a small pond.They
jump out (in the fog) and proceed to surround the pond.One hunter see,s what he thinks is a calf and drops it.Its the cow and they have no tag.

The animal has been down for 1/2hr and is not gutted and the camp captain tells me he has made a phone call to a personal number for the local CO.They get no reply and I tell the camp owner that the CO might not be working or even be away on vacation.Doing nothing is not an option.

Long story short I call a local OPP guy I know,tell him whats happened.He tells me to immediately start cleaning the Moose (save spoliage) and he would try for the MNR guys.

So we all go to the BIG COW lying by the pond and we clean it out and put a BIG ORANGE TARP over it.I look around and locate the calf tracks and make sure they are preserved.

Two rookie MNR guys show up from the Minden office with a trailer some 2 hours later.The hunter who make the kill tells the complete story.The Moose gets seized and he gets a $400.00 out of court settlement POT on the spot.

I heard later he set a date for court,there was some error on the ticket and the charge was stayed.

gilroy like i said a call to the mnr is required if you find a shot deer on your land... case in point 4 years ago in 72a during shotgun season a big buck was shot crossed a county road and ended up on a ladies front yard .. the guys tracked it to the road and were in the process of taking it off the ladies yard and she told them to leave.. they called the mnr and opp big fight lady got to keep the deer and the boys where told they could be charged.... long story .. call mnr and you can keep the deer .

There is No dispute here about calling the MNR,all I,am saying is the little old lady or any other landowner still needs a permit to possess the meat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Mark,

I believe you might be wrong here.LOL The landowner would need to cover himself for any possession of deer meat,especially in this circumstance where a aggrieved hunter would drop a dime on him and claim he was in possession of a deer either being tagged which the landowner COULD NOT DO or alternately have a permit to possess.

So I agree a phone call is needed and the CO then could decide to issue a permit OR if the CO decides he/she could seize the deer and have it otherwise disposed of.

I believe the issuance of a permit is at the discretion of the CO.

---

It is just done online now. I don't think anyone at the MNR really cares. lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Deerslayer,

Your circumstance of being charged was rather unfortunate and althought it sounds pretty anal,the previous advice from the MNR is pretty straighforward.

If you find yourself having to track a wounded deer and its getting near end of legal hours.The guns have to be encased period and a phone call made to the nearest MNR office or 800 number after hours.

They have indicated they will entertain permission to allow you to follow up on tracking that deer.

Having done that you take away any allegations about night poaching and so forth.Now your entry onto private land might still have you dropped in ka,ka but at least you have the back up call you made to the MNR.

Had you made that call things may have ended better,the complainant for the trespass could have been informed that the MNR were aware you were out looking and conveyed that to the complainant.

I know in real life there is a good possibility the MNR may not get back to you BUT THE CALL YOU MADE at least covers you for trying to ensure a deer did not spoil.

If the MNR did not show,you phone records the attempt.I would then call the OPP and try via them,as they have direct contact.

UNFORTUNATELY YOU LEFT YOURSELF WIDE OPEN.

Just a little story for you guys and how things CAN work out if you do the right thing.

About 10 years ago on the last day of Moose hunting season I dropped into a friends hunting camp to say hi and goodbye for the season.Its 10am in the morning and 5 guys are milling around the porch looking rather sheepish.I had stopped hunting because early that day it was pea soup fog and real hard to see.

Anyway the story comes out that they see a Cow and Calf cross the road in front of their truck and head towards a small pond.They
jump out (in the fog) and proceed to surround the pond.One hunter see,s what he thinks is a calf and drops it.Its the cow and they have no tag.

The animal has been down for 1/2hr and is not gutted and the camp captain tells me he has made a phone call to a personal number for the local CO.They get no reply and I tell the camp owner that the CO might not be working or even be away on vacation.Doing nothing is not an option.

Long story short I call a local OPP guy I know,tell him whats happened.He tells me to immediately start cleaning the Moose (save spoliage) and he would try for the MNR guys.

So we all go to the BIG COW lying by the pond and we clean it out and put a BIG ORANGE TARP over it.I look around and locate the calf tracks and make sure they are preserved.

Two rookie MNR guys show up from the Minden office with a trailer some 2 hours later.The hunter who make the kill tells the complete story.The Moose gets seized and he gets a $400.00 out of court settlement POT on the spot.

I heard later he set a date for court,there was some error on the ticket and the charge was stayed.

---

By "entertain" are you saying the MNR will give you permission to enter private land??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brent

By "entertain" are you saying the MNR will give you permission to enter private land??

---

You're a very difficult and anal lad at times , Brent . Gilroys story has the ring of truth and I have heard of a few that turned out EXACTLY the same including the $400 fine . You just can't make this shat up .

TD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 400bigbear

You're a very difficult and anal lad at times , Brent . Gilroys story has the ring of truth and I have heard of a few that turned out EXACTLY the same including the $400 fine . You just can't make this shat up .
TD

---

BIG BEAR speaking of shat You posted this at 4:01 this morning AM !!!

old saying about early risers

"What'd you do? Shat the bed?"

no offence intended just amazes me how early some guys are up!

Getting back to the blog

The comments here have gone in so many direction from so many know-it-alls to so many know-nothing alls.
Would be lawyers, wanna be lawyers, gracious landowners, landowners looking for a confrontation. ALL OVER THE MAP!

I do have retrieval permission all around me for as far as I think a deer would go BUT some deer just don't read the script.

For those other properties I just tiptoe in - no weapons - very quietly and drag the deer out - guts and all. Sometimes after dark if necessary.

No one is non the wiser - there are no conflicts or stirring up of any anti-hunters etc. the tranquility of the forest is maintained and there is no anti-hunter fuel added to the fire.

If I'm ever caught I'm smart enough to play stupid and apologise profusely. (every trespasser I've ever caught does this well with a promise to never return) Almost always this works for them and me! And I would abide by my one time pass also!

There have been a few deer that just went through the nonpermissioned properties and just kept going back to my other permission granted properties. If I had gone and asked and was refused - the search would have ended with the assumption the deer was on the property. I would never have known it came out somewhere else.

Also our area is coyote infested. If you leave any deer in the woods you have about a 20% chance of getting anything back. I personally have lost 5. my brother 2, one of my moose hunting guys - 4 I think. 3 of those deer had coyotes on them within the first half hour after the shot! You could hear them going at it while you sat in the tree! One doe I shot ran 80yds and piled up in the field in clear sight. A coyote strolled out and cut across between us and picked up the blood trail. I watched for about 5 minutes and when it started yanking out fur from the flank I was out of the tree and running at it hollering. I got to about 20 yds before it ran off, Stubborn little bugger!

So if I waited till the morning to seek permission then why bother?

FYI for all you guys hunting in big farm area or in the endless north where everyone gets along please try to understand that down here in our neck of the woods it's different. Small properties, a constant flipping of new owners buying in. Non hunters getting there piece of the pie etc etc etc.

you guys are on the outside looking in and us guys are on the inside looking out!

This is what works for me and I sleep with a clear conscience every day!


big bear I just reviewed my post and see that yours was at 7:11 NOT 4;01am ..

I guess I better go back to school HAH! you must have edited or something I'm sure I seen 4:01am

HMMM

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 400bigbear

You're a very difficult and anal lad at times , Brent . Gilroys story has the ring of truth and I have heard of a few that turned out EXACTLY the same including the $400 fine . You just can't make this shat up .

TD

---

Just trying to understand if Gilroy is saying the MNR will give you permission to enter to private land to retrieve a deer. If that makes me very difficult or anal so be it. Lots of guys don't really even bother following any laws most of the time anyways eh Trapper!!

And the moose story is quite common. I'm not sure how many people report themselves though...A gang went thru the exact same thing here as well last year, shooting a yearling with a cow thinking it was a calf. Got the fine on the spot and the moose was confiscated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SK33T3R

BIG BEAR speaking of shat You posted this at 4:01 this morning AM !!!




big bear I just reviewed my post and see that yours was at 7:11 NOT 4;01am ..

I guess I better go back to school HAH! you must have edited or something I'm sure I seen 4:01am

HMMM

---

Nope you were right the first time. No detention for you...lol Posted at 4:01am, last online at 7:11am. I post in the wee hours of the morning but I work night shift so I'm up anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brent

By "entertain" are you saying the MNR will give you permission to enter private land??

---

No not at all,I specifically stated

Now your entry onto private land might still have you dropped in ka,ka but at least you have the back up call you made to the MNR.

If you read on from there you will see that I stated at least the MNR could advise the landowner that they knew a hunter was following a track of a deer,they were not night poaching.

But the hunter would still have needed permission to enter the neighbours field.

SK33t3r.

"For those other properties I just tiptoe in - no weapons - very quietly and drag the deer out - guts and all. Sometimes after dark if necessary."

"FYI for all you guys hunting in big farm area or in the endless north where everyone gets along please try to understand that down here in our neck of the woods it's different. Small properties, a constant flipping of new owners buying in. Non hunters getting there piece of the pie etc etc etc"

Taking into consideration the properties are small,some owners you dont know,Non hunters having the nerve to buy properties,I personally would not embark on the course of action you suggest in the first quote.

You leave yourself open to trespass charges,allegations of night poaching and so forth.You can play stupid and apologize but basically that might not work.Would it not be simpler to make that call to the local MNR to follow up on that deer and get permission from a landowner.

The ASK A CO webpage actually eludes to hunting small properties and suggests the common sense notion that "everybody is in a no win situation" when a deer goes onto anothers persons land.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

SK33t3r.
The ASK A CO webpage actually eludes to hunting small properties and suggests the common sense notion that "everybody is in a no win situation" when a deer goes onto anothers persons land.

---

How often has it happened that an area has had it's deer season removed or boundaries changed because it is determined that deer hunting can no longer be practiced legally ? Skeeter seems to need to trespass, and has wasted 5 deer. Is that practical or what we are about?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angus

How often has it happened that an area has had it's deer season removed or boundaries changed because it is determined that deer hunting can no longer be practiced legally ? Skeeter seems to need to trespass, and has wasted 5 deer. Is that practical or what we are about?

---

I don't know of any areas that been removed or boundaries changed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angus

How often has it happened that an area has had it's deer season removed or boundaries changed because it is determined that deer hunting can no longer be practiced legally ? Skeeter seems to need to trespass, and has wasted 5 deer. Is that practical or what we are about?

---

FYI I did not waste 5 deer! coyotes ate'um. Those deer were left overnight because they could not be found or the shot was not quite perfect. At some point you need to make a decision. Every expert out there would say to back off and give the animal time. I done this successfully with some of the 85 deer I've bow harvested over my career and I've probably tracked twice that many for others! But the coyotes have been burning us real bad for the last few years. I shot a doe on Friday night. It went 60yds horizontally but about 80 yds vertically down into a ravine! As I collected my arrow a coyote started howling in the next ridge right out in the direction that my deer ran to! At that point I did not know my deer was at the bottom. The coyote was probably 125 yds from me straight across the ravine. Had she gone down and up the other side then mr coyote woulda been within yds of her!

So if and when I finally get a BAD arrow into a big buck there is no way I'm going to puzzy foot around wondering if I'll need permission 1/4 mile away in a direction that the buck might take. I would never hunt , or poach, or trespass on that property in a premeditated action. BUT if that buck goes that way then GOD must have intended for me to follow it! Also he just might skirt the property and I'm not going to risk losing him waiting till the morning, waiting for the last CO in the peninsula to get there.. etc etc. The way I see it is the moment I shot that arrow I have an agreement with that deer and my own conscience to recover it as quickly as possible. I also took an oath long ago as a hunter to respect the animal and not allow that animal to go to waste as per MNR guidelines. If I should get into a predicament with some anti hunter landowner then I'll take my lumps and pay the fine. I have no problem handling the fine or people. What I do have a problem with is my conscience will keep me awake at night because I let the animal and myself down.


And if all the greedy anti hunter landowners don't agree then I really don't give a rats azz!

I have lots of land to hunt and great relationships with them all!

Like I said before I've been doing this a long time and I've never had an issue of any kind!

But I will NOT change or sell out what my duties as a hunter are to the game, myself or my god!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Would it not be simpler to make that call to the local MNR to follow up on that deer and get permission from a landowner.
.

---

Gilroy

By the time you got to the deer you'd be putting your tag on what the coyotes left for you!

And just imagine the impression that landowner non hunter would have seeing what those coyotes do to that deer.

and it was all your fault!

So by the time the entire "ring around the rosy" was played out everyone was upset, the deer was wasted, coyotes were full, MNR made a trip for nothing, the anti hunter landowner hates us more then ever ... WHY? because we're so friggin politically correct.

The way I've done it no one is upset, deer is utilized, coyotes get a nice easy gutpile, all signs of the harvest are gone, .

I just don't see how the other "right "approach is in fact the "right"approach

G!

IT,S AMAZING on this site when subjects like this come up that each one has a personal opinion, then everyone fights like cats and dogs
to get there point across and tempers rise. Everyone should take a deep breath and relax it,s not worth arguing about.

Amen. Skeeter. Amen

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishing1

IT,S AMAZING on this site when subjects like this come up that each one has a personal opinion, then everyone fights like cats and dogs
to get there point across and tempers rise. Everyone should take a deep breath and relax it,s not worth arguing about.

---

I agree

but I'm not arguing ... just stating how I run my life and it seems others have issues with it!

Maybe they need to reread the rats azz part!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SK33T3R

FYI I did not waste 5 deer! coyotes ate'um.

---

Did God, or whatever other voices in your head tell you to feed the coyotes with deer the rest of us harvest?
And God says it's OK to Trespass as long as you are doing his will ?

Hopefully the Devil isn't going to put you and the wrong landowner face to face.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angus

Did God, or whatever other voices in your head tell you to feed the coyotes with deer the rest of us harvest?
And God says it's OK to Trespass as long as you are doing his will ?

Hopefully the Devil isn't going to put you and the wrong landowner face to face.

---

You do realize that there is no god right? .




Had to change the subject.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angus

Did God, or whatever other voices in your head tell you to feed the coyotes with deer the rest of us harvest?
And God says it's OK to Trespass as long as you are doing his will ?

Hopefully the Devil isn't going to put you and the wrong landowner face to face.

---

Angus you need help man!

you should give up hunting and go around handing out pamphlet's door to door or at the mall!

PS don't drink the kool-aid!

I think this issue boils down to landowner rights, which have been argued on different sites before from the point of view of how much government involvement there should be on private land. I believe that a landowner should have (and has) a right to determine who can go on his land and for what purpose and also should have a right to have someone, who wants to enter on that land for a purpose other than what the landowner openly allows, ask for permission prior to doing that. The law sets out certain criteria where the landowner has to give written or verbal notice to people not to enter or carry on with certain (or any) activities on his/her land. It also sets out certain instances where a person is automatically trespassing if they don't get permission (such as agricultural/cultivated land.

If someone decides to enter property in a manner that would be considered trespassing, then that is a choice they must make, by conscience or whatever, and suffer the possible consequences. Because the illegal act involves hunting and wildlife, one might be considered a poacher in others' minds.

I think that what the Province should consider is a law such similar to that on Manitoulin Island that requires all hunters to have written permission from a landowner on their person while hunting on private land. I think this would solve a lot of these issues and put respect for the landowners right to choose what happens on their private property into perspective.

In any event I would hope that the rights of the landowner would prevail and as long as the hunter did everything legally in there power to do what is right then that is what can be justified.

My thoughts and opinions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angus

Did God, or whatever other voices in your head tell you to feed the coyotes with deer the rest of us harvest?
And God says it's OK to Trespass as long as you are doing his will ?

Hopefully the Devil isn't going to put you and the wrong landowner face to face.

---

That's (to put it nicely)........one of the most silliest comments I have ever read on here.

And this one isn't any nice at all....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angus

How often has it happened that an area has had it's deer season removed or boundaries changed because it is determined that deer hunting can no longer be practiced legally ? Skeeter seems to need to trespass, and has wasted 5 deer. Is that practical or what we are about?

---

Losing 5 deer to coyotes out of 90 or so isn't wasting much. It happens. As he said, deer don't always follow the script. Whether you think it's wrong or not, at least SK33T3R has the guts to say what many on here think and/or have already done.

If a deer is marginally hit (also happens, no matter how good you think you are) and decides to run 1000 yards or so and ends up two properties over, are you going to dither around and go knocking on doors and looking up phone numbers while the coyotes make a snack of your deer, or will you risk the possibility of trouble with a landowner to go in and get it? Yeah, yeah, "should have done that beforehand"...you may think you have all your bases covered with surrounding properties, but to think that everyone is going to have a plan for every possible outcome or scenario is crazy. It's easy enough to be critical of how others have acted under certain circumstances on an online forum, but don't be surprised to find yourself under the same circumstances and having to make similar decisions because it can happen to most of us. Stuff doesn't always go as planned in the bush. I'm sure that SK33T3R and anyone else who has spent enough time there can tell you that.

Thanks GW11

You can get all the permissions lined up and then along comes that deer you've been dreaming about, could be a doe for that matter, and you finally get a shot. You do everything perfect, go for coffee, give it time. Finally you start trackin. Blood looks good - deer should be close. So you press on. Just another few yards - no way can that deer go that far. 500 yds and 1/2 hr later you're still shakin your head. That deer has to be on fumes. You hear coyotes off in the distance - a reminder that something else wants that deer too! you press on. The good shot you made has you talking to yourself. The deer crosses the road and goes down into a ravine and then you realize the deer is climbing out of the ravine - still bleeding ???WTF is goin on here. In your mind the deer is just ahead. Stopping and going back to the truck is an option BUT you may not even know how to get back to that exact spot to take up the trail later. You know you're off your permissions property what to do?

If any of you guys have never been in this situation - give it time - you will be! The more you hunt the sooner it will happen.
I have a good notion that those arguing with me are either the best hunters/best shots in the world or they're still bragging about the only one they ever got. There are lots of armchair - TV watching - magazine readers who like nothing better then bashing because they're experts now! ME? I no expert! I'm still learning. But the lessons I learned up till now governs the way I will behave in the future.

So mark my words your lessons are comin!

this is a grim reminder of what politically correct gets you
Attachment 27770

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SK33T3R

Thanks GW11

You can get all the permissions lined up and then along comes that deer you've been dreaming about, could be a doe for that matter, and you finally get a shot. You do everything perfect, go for coffee, give it time. Finally you start trackin. Blood looks good - deer should be close. So you press on. Just another few yards - no way can that deer go that far. 500 yds and 1/2 hr later you're still shakin your head. That deer has to be on fumes. You hear coyotes off in the distance - a reminder that something else wants that deer too! you press on. The good shot you made has you talking to yourself. The deer crosses the road and goes down into a ravine and then you realize the deer is climbing out of the ravine - still bleeding ???WTF is goin on here. In your mind the deer is just ahead. Stopping and going back to the truck is an option BUT you may not even know how to get back to that exact spot to take up the trail later. You know you're off your permissions property what to do?

If any of you guys have never been in this situation - give it time - you will be! The more you hunt the sooner it will happen.
I have a good notion that those arguing with me are either the best hunters/best shots in the world or they're still bragging about the only one they ever got. There are lots of armchair - TV watching - magazine readers who like nothing better then bashing because they're experts now! ME? I no expert! I'm still learning. But the lessons I learned up till now governs the way I will behave in the future.

So mark my words your lessons are comin!

this is a grim reminder of what politically correct gets you
Attachment 27770

---

I am sure the CO's or police are going to love your stories, and I do hope some day you are talking to them. But in the interest of maybe getting you out of trouble when that day comes , here is a ploy that might work for you !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SLifea3NHQ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angus

I am sure the CO's or police are going to love your stories, and I do hope some day you are talking to them. But in the interest of maybe getting you out of trouble when that day comes , here is a ploy that might work for you !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SLifea3NHQ

---

GEESH WHY ALL THE ILL WILL TOWARDS ME!

What did I ever do to you? Do I know you? Did I knock you on your butt playing hockey? Have I struck you out playin ball. Did I get the big deer that you were trying for? Am I the father to one of your children?

You're hoping I get caught?

Well Angus when I do I will phone the nut house directly and you'll be the first one to know.

Send me a PM after you check in to the asylum and do include your room and phone#.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angus

I am sure the CO's or police are going to love your stories, and I do hope some day you are talking to them. But in the interest of maybe getting you out of trouble when that day comes , here is a ploy that might work for you !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SLifea3NHQ

---

ROFLMAO!! I had stopped a drunk driver one night,who couldn't even roll down the window. When I opened the door,she rolled right off the front seat and landed on the dirt at my feet. I asked "What do you think you're doing,lady?" What does she say--"The devil made me do it,honey". God bless Flip Wilson.

"GEESH WHY ALL THE ILL WILL TOWARDS ME"


Well SK33t3R

You managed to slag off landowners as being greedy BUT you dont really need them as you have all kinds of permission.Except the lands you dont have permission to hunt on and if this happens you sneak in and take the deer out everybody else be dammed.

Then if you get CAUGHT your going to be a STAND UP GUY and take your lumps with the fine or other penalty.

Have I got it right so far.Good.

OK here is some more free legal advice.Hunt in areas where you have at least a country mile in all directions.

Try and make kill shots and if none of the two work out hang up you guns and help preserve our deer herd in Ontario.

As a landowner , I say " Do unto others as....."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

As a landowner , I say " Do unto others as....."

---

Back in the old days everyone trespassed on their neighbours, and everyone pretended that they didn't know the others trespassed. Sort of like Baptists running into each other at the liquor store.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

ROFLMAO!! I had stopped a drunk driver one night,who couldn't even roll down the window. When I opened the door,she rolled right off the front seat and landed on the dirt at my feet. I asked "What do you think you're doing,lady?" What does she say--"The devil made me do it,honey". God bless Flip Wilson.

---

I thought there might be a few with a little water under the bridge that might appreciate that ! I couldn't remember where the heck it came from last night but that may have been the single malt. Your are right about Flip, lot of talent and hilarious without having to say the eff word every sentence.
Apparently though it was a sharp edged sword that enraged poor Skeeter ! I thought he didn't give a Rattz Azz !!

Strange people are here

There was a young boy called Angus who decided to try life in Kingston. He found an apartment in a small block and settled in.
After a week or two, his mother called from Toronto to see how her son was doing in his new life.
'I'm fine, ' Angus said. 'But there are some really strange people living in these apartments. One woman cried all day long, another lies on her floor moaning, and there is a guy next door to me who bangs his head on the wall all the time.'
'Well, ma son,' says his mother, 'I suggest you don't associate with people like that.'
'Oh,' says Angus, 'I don't, Mam, I don't.
No, I just stay inside my apartment all day and night, playing my bagpipes.'

You seem to live in the abstract so I thought you'd relate to this.
I have no idea what the heck I'm posting this for and others will wonder too
But I'm sure you will. I think? Maybe?
Are you on meds?
and PS I'm not enrage at all - just puzzled on how I got tangled up with you!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SK33T3R

No, I just stay inside my apartment all day and night, playing my bagpipes.'

---

Even though I haven't touched them in about 3 years, I gotta tell ya the pipes were meant to be played outside laddie !

And I forgot to add, if you are thinking of playing them while trespassing - not a good idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SK33T3R

and PS I'm not enrage at all - just puzzled on how I got tangled up with you!

---

Oh don't worry about him. He tangled with a couple of our finest, retired and active, just a short while ago. He's new?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 400bigbear

I recall this incident shortly after it happened Deerslayer 99 and our convo we had . I felt you were innocent when you recovered the deer and why you came to the conclusion you did when you made the recovery but as you know that one city clown who moved to that area thinks he owns the whole lake and controls everything in that area . How many times has he called MNR ,OPP and Fire Marshall etc on folks ? LOTS . He is a harasser . He has been nothing but trouble since the day he moved there .

TD

---

Trespassing is trespassing. Period.

Trespassing to retrieve downed game does not make you "innocent" or make it okay, regardless of what our personal opinions as ethical hunters tell us. You can tell yourself as much as you'd like to convince yourself that trespassing is okay, but the fact remains that permission must be obtained BEFORE stepping foot on someones property.

Anyone knowingly trespassing deserves any and all punishment coming their way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ch312

Trespassing is trespassing. Period.

Trespassing to retrieve downed game does not make you "innocent" or make it okay, regardless of what our personal opinions as ethical hunters tell us. You can tell yourself as much as you'd like to convince yourself that trespassing is okay, but the fact remains that permission must be obtained BEFORE stepping foot on someones property.

Anyone knowingly trespassing deserves any and all punishment coming their way.

---

STOP RIGHT THERE . I never once said trespassing was ok and we don't have defined fence or property lines everywhere here . Yes it is on our onus to know exactly where we are at but this was a situational call . I know EXACTLY where it happened and why Deerslayer 99 came to that conclusion .

TD

Some of you guys are a joke.. 18 pages of guys getting off topic and bashing eachother.. I think its ridiculous how pissy people can get on this forum because of arguing with people they have never met, know anything about.. dont take your computer wars so seriously..........

Go outdoors and do what has brought you to this forum in the first place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SK33T3R

Thanks GW11

You can get all the permissions lined up and then along comes that deer you've been dreaming about, could be a doe for that matter, and you finally get a shot. You do everything perfect, go for coffee, give it time. Finally you start trackin. Blood looks good - deer should be close. So you press on. Just another few yards - no way can that deer go that far. 500 yds and 1/2 hr later you're still shakin your head. That deer has to be on fumes. You hear coyotes off in the distance - a reminder that something else wants that deer too! you press on. The good shot you made has you talking to yourself. The deer crosses the road and goes down into a ravine and then you realize the deer is climbing out of the ravine - still bleeding ???WTF is goin on here. In your mind the deer is just ahead. Stopping and going back to the truck is an option BUT you may not even know how to get back to that exact spot to take up the trail later. You know you're off your permissions property what to do?

If any of you guys have never been in this situation - give it time - you will be! The more you hunt the sooner it will happen.
I have a good notion that those arguing with me are either the best hunters/best shots in the world or they're still bragging about the only one they ever got. There are lots of armchair - TV watching - magazine readers who like nothing better then bashing because they're experts now! ME? I no expert! I'm still learning. But the lessons I learned up till now governs the way I will behave in the future.

So mark my words your lessons are comin!

this is a grim reminder of what politically correct gets you
Attachment 27770

---

Where is the tag? LOL. just funning with ya.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hunter10

Some of you guys are a joke.. 18 pages of guys getting off topic and bashing eachother.. I think its ridiculous how pissy people can get on this forum because of arguing with people they have never met, know anything about.. dont take your computer wars so seriously..........

Go outdoors and do what has brought you to this forum in the first place.

---

Gees Hunter 10,

I thought we were only having a debate,what makes you think it was an argument.I mean what is the difference between a debate and an argument only.I would rather debate with a few guys and then learn something I didnt know already as opposed to agreeing with everybody and learning nuthin,if you know what I mean.I mean its like a guy coming on a thread and talking about nothing,which is exactly what you did.You would thing you were out looking for an argument or something,instead of a real debate or something.If you know what I mean.

P.S. Did you get anything from this thread.

Gilroy, yes I have learned from this thread but not so much from the recent pages.. I followed the whole thing and it goes from pretty good to good to losing interest to a few people nipping at each other over things in no relation to the subject. Didn't put my message to start an argument but it's the same every time you log on and see a 5+ Page subject.. The same few people seem to just be interested in stiring the pot or re directing the subject. I enjoy good discussion and arguments but there hasn't been too many lately. I noticed a lot of times people posted and unless they were at work they would of been great times to be in the bush

How ironic Hunter 10 but your last couple of posts are EXACTLY what your accusing others of . We call them hypocrites around here . Follow your own advice, momma .;):thumbup:

TD

hunter 10,

You have been on here since Apr 2009,you should know how it goes.Excitement pre season,failure/success during season,then post season blues.Sure we verbally beat the crap out of each other but in the process we learn.If I thought I knew everything I would not find a need to be on here.Posters you dont like to read ,you can put on the ignore feature.Personally my season is over,I might get out for a bunny hunt and in the meantime this is a good place to be when cabin fever sets in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gilroy

hunter 10,

you have been on here since apr 2009,you should know how it goes.excitement pre season,failure/success during season,then post season blues.sure we verbally beat the crap out of each other but in the process we learn.if i thought i knew everything i would not find a need to be on here.posters you dont like to read ,you can put on the ignore feature.personally my season is over,i might get out for a bunny hunt and in the meantime this is a good place to be when cabin fever sets in.

---

there's an ignore feature!? Where is it and how do i access it.

Thanks in advance for your help!?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SK33T3R

there's an ignore feature!? Where is it and how do i access it.

Thanks in advance for your help!?

---

It only works in here though. You can't click on "Ignore the Law" outside of here ! Of course you don't need to, it's your default mode. :p

Wow now let's get some pop corn and watch this one ��

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SK33T3R

there's an ignore feature!? Where is it and how do i access it.

Thanks in advance for your help!?

---

Just click on the view profile of the poster you want to ignore and it pops up under the name.