Opp on fish patrol LOL the big sting

Watched some young guy catch a fish last night that he measured and thought was on the line of the slot so he kept it in the boat beside me. We had just asked the guy How fishing was and he did he hadn't caught any walleye all weekend but he had heard they were biting in this area so thought he would try.

A minute later a big Boston whaler OPP boat comes flying in and nearly swamps a small boat in the process and to measure his fish, they were watching from a distance and they say while its not 20" it's 1/4 " of an inch over the 19.7" slot size ( which in theory is 19 6/8" on a measuring tape not just over 19 and a 1/2 and there is zero tolerance..

So depending on how you measure this fish it may or may not be over the line.. None the less the fish is seized and a 175$ fine given as the OPP says their is zero tolerance.

Interestingly enough I called OPP about the speed of weekend cottage traffic on the county road and the words from the Cop was we understand these cottage folks drive way to fast on rural roads but we just don't have the staff to police them all the time and have to focus much of our effort on major highways.

so let's get this straight people driving 110 kmh a hour in a 80 km routinely on the county road is lower priority than a having 2 officers out glossing fisherman trying to stake out some guy over 1/4 of an inch fish... Which was debatable or not.

If this is the practice then how does any Opp officer not charge everyone who is 1 or 2km over the posted speed limit.

Their main priority is looking for booze and safety gear, which they get a ton of fines and charges with on a long weekens. Enforcing the F&W conservation act is an additoion they may or may not be concerned with at any given time.

And with anything, your attitude at the time of questioning goes a long way to dictating if there is any or zero tolerance on close calls.

We watched the whole thing, The guy was nice as pie they checked him for everything else and he had it all. ( we were 50 yards away ). This was the only thing they could get him for and must of been how they attempt to justify their dragnet operation.

It was classic good cop bad cop... what a waste of my taxpaying dollars. There was 6 other boats and not one got even questioned for life jackets, boater cards etc etc as everyone carries that now with all the harassment we get on the water.

this morning I emailed our MPP, the Ombudsman, Minister of Natural Resources and Community Safety and Services asking why we can't get cops to patrol our roads but have time for fish patrol. Hire more MNR keep the cops patrolling roads and solving crime which isn't laying Bs charges over fish.

BTW the angler was pissed.. i a sure if he took it to the JP or MNR the fine would be tossed.

The OPP is big business now. Always looking to expand .... Need more money for fancy boats, wages, trips etc.
Enforcing laws in any way that makes sense or being polite or accountable is low on the list.


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I don't think we'll agree on that one.... A 1/4" over is no brainer to me and I think it will not be tossed in court, pretty cut and dry..... When I measure a fish, it's 1/8" over and I decide to keep it I know very well what I can get into. I don't like to speak or even see the authority at all but there is a line and if you decide to cross it you might get hurt, don't complain.....

He should contest it in court, i doubt the crown attorney will have much desire to proceed with the charge.

but if it does get to the JP and he is cranky, the fine might increase.

Pretty simple really , if it's close let it go
Rules are put there for a reason. If no one is patrolling our waters the greedy people will take it all.
So unless your one of those , be thankful someone is enforcing the law.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jdr

Pretty simple really , if it's close let it go
Rules are put there for a reason. If no one is patrolling our waters the greedy people will take it all.
So unless your one of those , be thankful someone is enforcing the law.

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^^^^^This!^^^^^ For the people that still like to use the old imperial measuring system,learn to use metric. It's far more exact. If it's under 35 or over 50,even by one millimeter,back it goes. Playing "loosy-goosy" with 1/16 here or 1/8 there soon defeats the sole purpose of the slot size. One can't complain if they get written up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monster29/66

We watched the whole thing, The guy was nice as pie they checked him for everything else and he had it all. ( we were 50 yards away ). This was the only thing they could get him for and must of been how they attempt to justify their dragnet operation.

It was classic good cop bad cop... what a waste of my taxpaying dollars. There was 6 other boats and not one got even questioned for life jackets, boater cards etc etc as everyone carries that now with all the harassment we get on the water.

this morning I emailed our MPP, the Ombudsman, Minister of Natural Resources and Community Safety and Services asking why we can't get cops to patrol our roads but have time for fish patrol. Hire more MNR keep the cops patrolling roads and solving crime which isn't laying Bs charges over fish.

BTW the angler was pissed.. i a sure if he took it to the JP or MNR the fine would be tossed.

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Why would it be tossed? He was over the measurement. Whats he going to contest? "I was only a little bit over, your Honour". That will fly like a lead balloon.

For too long our waters have gone unpatrolled and the POACHERS have gotten away with everything. Im damn happy to see any enforcement and will gladly talk to a cop or CO on the water.

Im also not entirely sure what you difference you think a CO would have made here. He/she would have just as easily have issued the fine too.

That's why down here people are getting fed up with cops - they keep doing stupid things - 1/4'' of a inch - come on - get me a break - the fish can shrink that much when out of the water - and how accurate is the thing they are measuring it with - even in any engineering measurement it is always noted as - 20 inches + or - something because you have to have very expensive equipment to measure something very accurately - sounds like a way to take money from a guy who is doing nothing wrong - people better start making noise about such behavior on the part of the cops -

There's really nothing debateable about over sized fish. Everyone knows how they're supposed to measure the fish. A quarter of in inch today, maybe 3/8 tomorrow and then why not 1/2 inch the day after?
You are going to have the crowd that's whining about speeding campers when they should be directing their efforts towards dopers instead.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

That's why down here people are getting fed up with cops - they keep doing stupid things - 1/4'' of a inch - come on - get me a break - the fish can shrink that much when out of the water - and how accurate is the thing they are measuring it with - even in any engineering measurement it is always noted as - 20 inches + or - something because you have to have very expensive equipment to measure something very accurately - sounds like a way to take money from a guy who is doing nothing wrong - people better start making noise about such behavior on the part of the cops -

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You must quiet a carpenter.....

Why is it that when someone gets caught violating it's the cop who is the Ahole!!!

Yup. And then certain demographics can set a gill net and kill hundreds of fish some of which get tossed to the seagulls because there is no market for it but yes they will have $200k of salaries in a $50k boat and then tying up lawyers , JP's and valuable court time over some poor guy who caught a pickerel.
And there will be thousands of drunk drivers, speeders, pot smokers on the highways with likely fatalities but this is good manpower planning. Let the CO's chase the slot limits, not two sunshine listers in body armour carrying sidearms.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jellyheader

Why is it that when someone gets caught violating it's the cop who is the Ahole!!!

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Not saying that at all. Cop is doing what he is told to do. I'm saying the people who plan manpower are aholes. There is only so much money. In fact there isn't enough the Province borrows everyday. Not sure it's worth enforcing that rule.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jellyheader

Why is it that when someone gets caught violating it's the cop who is the Ahole!!!

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I think it's more about allocation of resources and attitude then guilty or not guilty.
I've seen them come flying in like their on Miami Vice as well ...it's a little bit much !!

Is the measurement along the contour of the fish or on a flat boat bench, what's in the regs ??!

really it doesn't matter sea blast has simple answers for simple folks.... the point of the story is what's more important for the OPP to be out doing ? Sting operations for anglers or keeping our roads safe, solving violent crimes or dealing with folks who mean harm to society like terrorists or drug dealers.

Should we paying 100 + k a year so officers can Check fisherman for a 1/4 of an inch infraction or have them conduct ride programs, stopp speeders on our roads let's remember folks if this officer had his way a fish would of lived but how many people's lives are put in danger by an officers neglect of duty while they are out checking fisherman and not out keeping roads safe.

for those who think this angler is in the wrong do you ever speed ? Drive 110km on the 401 ? Drive 100 in a 80km zone or how about 45 km in w school Zone of 40... Everyone on this forum has crossed a line.. Although your speeding puts people lives in danger let's worry about one silly fish that likely is legal depending on how it's measured.

society doesn't need paid officers carrying guns to do this it can be dealt with by volunteers !

If it's over it's over, how much it's over by is irrelivent. He broke the law and paid the price. If it's close release it, you certainly won't starve! As anglers you should be happy that these laws are being enforced if you care about conservation what so ever and aren't a poacher yourself. The cop is out checking if people have their licences and not drinking, like they would on the road, if he catches someone breaking the fishing rules and limits awesome! Maybe some people will think twice before abusing our resources!

Speed limits were created with safety in mind and going 1 or 2km/h over isn't going to make much of a difference in a head on collision. Fishing limits were created so we can all enjoy fishing in the future and the population doesn't get desimated! Comparing the two things is just ridiculous

Quote:

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Originally Posted by terrym

Yup. And then certain demographics can set a gill net and kill hundreds of fish some of which get tossed to the seagulls because there is no market for it but yes they will have $200k of salaries in a $50k boat and then tying up lawyers , JP's and valuable court time over some poor guy who caught a pickerel.
And there will be thousands of drunk drivers, speeders, pot smokers on the highways with likely fatalities but this is good manpower planning. Let the CO's chase the slot limits, not two sunshine listers in body armour carrying sidearms.

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Do you think this is the only stop these guys made? I guarantee they checked other boats for booze and safety equipment, and as someone who lives in an area which has had some gruesome fatalities associated with drunk boating in the past couple years I am all for enforcement on the water.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monster29/66

Is the measurement along the contour of the fish or on a flat boat bench, what's in the regs ??!

really it doesn't matter sea blast has simple answers for simple folks.... the point of the story is what's more important for the OPP to be out doing ? Sting operations for anglers or keeping our roads safe, solving violent crimes or dealing with folks who mean harm to society like terrorists or drug dealers.

Should we paying 100 + k a year so officers can Check fisherman for a 1/4 of an inch infraction or have them conduct ride programs, stopp speeders on our roads let's remember folks if this officer had his way a fish would of lived but how many people's lives are put in danger by an officers neglect of duty while they are out checking fisherman and not out keeping roads safe.

for those who think this angler is in the wrong do you ever speed ? Drive 110km on the 401 ? Drive 100 in a 80km zone or how about 45 km in w school Zone of 40... Everyone on this forum has crossed a line.. Although your speeding puts people lives in danger let's worry about one silly fish that likely is legal depending on how it's measured.

society doesn't need paid officers carrying guns to do this it can be dealt with by volunteers !

---

All good points, that guy isn't a bad guy, it was a waste of time and money and I'm personally a bad driver but life is one that you can't slap so we better learn how to f it ......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monster29/66

Is the measurement along the contour of the fish or on a flat boat bench, what's in the regs ??!

really it doesn't matter sea blast has simple answers for simple folks.... the point of the story is what's more important for the OPP to be out doing ? Sting operations for anglers or keeping our roads safe, solving violent crimes or dealing with folks who mean harm to society like terrorists or drug dealers.

Should we paying 100 + k a year so officers can Check fisherman for a 1/4 of an inch infraction or have them conduct ride programs, stopp speeders on our roads let's remember folks if this officer had his way a fish would of lived but how many people's lives are put in danger by an officers neglect of duty while they are out checking fisherman and not out keeping roads safe.

for those who think this angler is in the wrong do you ever speed ? Drive 110km on the 401 ? Drive 100 in a 80km zone or how about 45 km in w school Zone of 40... Everyone on this forum has crossed a line.. Although your speeding puts people lives in danger let's worry about one silly fish that likely is legal depending on how it's measured.

society doesn't need paid officers carrying guns to do this it can be dealt with by volunteers !

---

.
You're also missing the point. Fish was the afterthought target of opportunity. They're looking for booze and safety gear, which is well worth every penny.

They also won't miss the chance to write a ticket for not having a bail bucket, even in a pontoon boat. Laughable but it's true.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blasted_saber

Do you think this is arenly stop these guys made? I guarantee they checked other boats for booze and safety equipment, and as someone who lives in an area which has had some gruesome fatalities associated with drunk boating in the past couple years I am all for enforcement on the water.

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Of course not. I fully realize that fish charges aren't the primary focus but time and manpower is wasted harassing the guy with a pickeral because as you say they should be chasing drunken speeders instead of an anchored fisherman.

160 Impaired charges in Durham think the OPP are doing their Job

http://www.durhamradionews.com/archives/92207

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blasted_saber

.
You're also missing the point. Fish was the afterthought target of opportunity. They're looking for booze and safety gear, which is well worth every penny.

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If that was true, why wasn't the original poster checked for theses items? His description was they came over after observing the guy land a keep a fish.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by terrym

Of course not. I fully realize that fish charges aren't the primary focus but time and manpower is wasted harassing the guy with a pickeral because as you say they should be chasing drunken speeders instead of an anchored fisherman.

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But when they approach him they can observe his boat and see if his safety equipment is obvious and he has a beer with him. At that point if they know he has a fish then they ask to see it.

Ive been stopped many, many times by OPP on the water. If my stuff safety gear is obvious they dont ask about it. They sometimes ask if I have any alcohol on board. They dont often (but have) asked about fish.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by B Wilson

If that was true, why wasn't the original poster checked for theses items? His description was they came over after observing the guy land a keep a fish.

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I dont know. How many boats were on the water? How many did they check? Did the OP leave shortly after? In my experience they usually bee line very quickly between boats. In this instance I cannot say, however I guarantee they werent on the water with the sole purpose of asking one boat about his only fish.

The opp were nice enough to patrol the lake I was on this weekend, they were nice enough to leave their f250 truck and trailer parked in the ramp in the water at a public launch too, never seen that before. I dont have an issue with them on the lake whatsoever but to block a public ramp on a long weekend?

If you can make the fish fit in (or over, whatever the case may be) the slot then it has to go back. Doesnt matter how it or the tape is laying

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monster29/66

Is the measurement along the contour of the fish or on a flat boat bench, what's in the regs ??!

really it doesn't matter sea blast has simple answers for simple folks.... the point of the story is what's more important for the OPP to be out doing ? Sting operations for anglers or keeping our roads safe, solving violent crimes or dealing with folks who mean harm to society like terrorists or drug dealers.

Should we paying 100 + k a year so officers can Check fisherman for a 1/4 of an inch infraction or have them conduct ride programs, stopp speeders on our roads let's remember folks if this officer had his way a fish would of lived but how many people's lives are put in danger by an officers neglect of duty while they are out checking fisherman and not out keeping roads safe.

for those who think this angler is in the wrong do you ever speed ? Drive 110km on the 401 ? Drive 100 in a 80km zone or how about 45 km in w school Zone of 40... Everyone on this forum has crossed a line.. Although your speeding puts people lives in danger let's worry about one silly fish that likely is legal depending on how it's measured.

society doesn't need paid officers carrying guns to do this it can be dealt with by volunteers !

---

People are netting fish by the thousands - people catch walleyes in deep water and release them only to die - birds are eating fish by the millions - tournaments kill hundreds of fish - and your going to jump on a guy who keeps one fish that is maybe a quarter of an inch out of bounds -

And getting back to measuring a fish - how accurate is the way they measured it - if you press on the fish you can get a bigger number - If I was this guy's lawyer I'd want to see the board that they used to measure the fish and how they handled it when they measured it - no one can made any measuring board exactly 19.70 inches - if the wood got wet the board will expand - there are a number of reasons you can't just say 19.7 and hold fast - there is something called common sense -

And as far as being a carpenter - hows this - I got two beams that are exactly 96 inches apart - and I want to put a board between them - looking at the space I don't know what size board I need - so I take a metal tape measure that has been sitting in the sun - the metal tape has expanded because of how hot it is - I use this tape and measure the space 95 and 14/16 inches - next I use same tape to cut the board at 95 and 14/16 inches - when I put the board between the beams which is 96 inches apart it fits perfectly - this happens even if I don't consider the width of the pencil line I drew on the board and the fact that the saw was perfectly placed on the proper side of the line - so what I am saying is - if the fish is close for Pete's sake use common sense and let it ride -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kokes

The opp were nice enough to patrol the lake I was on this weekend, they were nice enough to leave their f250 truck and trailer parked in the ramp in the water at a public launch too, never seen that before. I dont have an issue with them on the lake whatsoever but to block a public ramp on a long weekend?

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Shoulda called for a tow truck.

People are netting fish by the thousands - people catch walleyes in deep water and release them only to die - birds are eating fish by the millions - tournaments kill hundreds of fish - and your going to jump on a guy who keeps one fish that is maybe a quarter of an inch out of bounds -

And getting back to measuring a fish - how accurate is the way they measured it - if you press on the fish you can get a bigger number - If I was this guy's lawyer I'd want to see the board that they used to measure the fish and how they handled it when they measured it - no one can made any measuring board exactly 19.70 inches - if the wood got wet the board will expand - there are a number of reasons you can't just say 19.7 and hold fast - there is something called common sense -

And as far as being a carpenter - hows this - I got two beams that are exactly 96 inches apart - and I want to put a board between them - looking at the space I don't know what size board I need - so I take a metal tape measure that has been sitting in the sun - the metal tape has expanded because of how hot it is - I use this tape and measure the space 95 and 14/16 inches - next I use same tape to cut the board at 95 and 14/16 inches - when I put the board between the beams which is 96 inches apart it fits perfectly - this happens even if I don't consider the width of the pencil line I drew on the board and the fact that the saw was perfectly placed on the proper side of the line - so what I am saying is - if the fish is close for Pete's sake use common sense and let it ride -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

I think it's more about allocation of resources and attitude then guilty or not guilty.
I've seen them come flying in like their on Miami Vice as well ...it's a little bit much !!

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They came roaring up to me once just south of South Bay mouth on Manitoulin Island once. Told me they were there to rescue me.:confused: I was only 300 yards or so from the mouth of the bay, but was rowing back out because the Ferry was coming in to view. When they came along side of me I was rowing at a easy pace of 3 KM/hr.

I am sitting on a 14 foot Personal Pontoon Boat, wearing a vest, got a fox whistle, an air horn, a Marine VHF radio, a dual band VHF/UHF Ham radio( talking to my wife through the Repeater in Little Current), a GPS Plotter/fish finder, and trolling a green and yellow five of diamond on a dipsy diver. Doing the day I had been as far off shore as 5 to 6 km, came back to the marina had lunch with Karen and then went back out fishing.

I'm all for the opp enforcement of the fish and game act, once pot is legal our officers will need something to do around here

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blasted_saber

I dont know. How many boats were on the water? How many did they check? Did the OP leave shortly after? In my experience they usually bee line very quickly between boats. In this instance I cannot say, however I guarantee they werent on the water with the sole purpose of asking one boat about his only fish.

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Why are people being subjected to random stops while enjoying a day of boating. When did a day of boating result in me having to give up my rights to not be harassed or stopped for no reason ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

People are netting fish by the thousands - people catch walleyes in deep water and release them only to die - birds are eating fish by the millions - tournaments kill hundreds of fish - and your going to jump on a guy who keeps one fish that is maybe a quarter of an inch out of bounds -

And getting back to measuring a fish - how accurate is the way they measured it - if you press on the fish you can get a bigger number - If I was this guy's lawyer I'd want to see the board that they used to measure the fish and how they handled it when they measured it - no one can made any measuring board exactly 19.70 inches - if the wood got wet the board will expand - there are a number of reasons you can't just say 19.7 and hold fast - there is something called common sense -

And as far as being a carpenter - hows this - I got two beams that are exactly 96 inches apart - and I want to put a board between them - looking at the space I don't know what size board I need - so I take a metal tape measure that has been sitting in the sun - the metal tape has expanded because of how hot it is - I use this tape and measure the space 95 and 14/16 inches - next I use same tape to cut the board at 95 and 14/16 inches - when I put the board between the beams which is 96 inches apart it fits perfectly - this happens even if I don't consider the width of the pencil line I drew on the board and the fact that the saw was perfectly placed on the proper side of the line - so what I am saying is - if the fish is close for Pete's sake use common sense and let it ride -

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Hey Joe, up here in Canada we have a wonderfull material called Plastic, it doesn't shrink or expand when wet , we are well ahead of you in that respect , come on use some common sense [as per your quote]:rolleyes:

Ya Radom stops sucks. Pull in my gear so they can check my safety stuff.
Sometimes they hold back and right when you catch one in they zoom. Maybe I would have caught more.

I thought their was 2 world wars that Canadians gave their lives for to stop tyranny so we could live free in a free country speak freely and enjoy our natural resources freely and not be asked " for our papers " while out fishing.

What did our veterans fight for if our law enforcement officers have become the modern version of the SS while making over 100k a year looking for chicken charges..

Are they here to serve the taxpayer or are we here to serve them.

WOW..todays society has come to this every one thinks the fish are a free resourse and they are not. from whats been happening all around the OPP and local police departments are engaging in all fishing and hunting laws...If you ever visit port hope and fish don't be surprised to be checked 2 or 3 times a day from different departments .

Its either--or!
Learn how to measure and get used to it. Keep an oversized fish in my boat and you're swimming back to shore.

I don't get it.

Many years ago, an OPP cruiser followed me for 30 minutes along #28. Just south of Lakefield theres a stop sign. I stopped, went through, accelerated. Next thing I know I see the lights. He ends up giving me a ticket for doing 105 in a 90. I thought, wow you prick. You've been following me for 30 minutes, during which I do nothing wrong, no excessive speeding, no nada..so you know Im not some sped demon racing home........Then because I hit the gas after a stop sign, ( Admit I was chatting with the Ex and not watching the speedometer)..........Someone got up on the wrong side of the bed that day and it wasn't me.

However, I was speeding.

I didn't whine, didn't fight it, I signed it back with the money. I owned my mistake, it's called being mature and a man
***********************

We here complain ALL the time about the lack of enforcement complain all the time about boating accidents, people not wearing PFDs, and more.............

Good job imo, and happy to hear the OPP were on the water this weekend ( A long weekend when there are higher than normal incidents).

AS we'll as roads....I counted all kinds of speed traps this weekend, and saw quite a few pulled over on various roads outside city limits.
*****

So I guess "my" question is. Which is it?
Do we want to see more enforcement or not?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

So I guess "my" question is. Which is it?
Do we want to see more enforcement or not?

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A lot of guys on here are just against any kind of authority JBen...they tell their 'version' of the story and then expect that we will be outraged that some LEO was doing them wrong.

Having the OPP slid up beside the boat to enforce the rules tells me they are doing their jobs to make the water ways safer for all of us. I've never been hassled, don't give them any reason to. It's usually just a pleasant conversation and a "Have a nice Day".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

People are netting fish by the thousands - people catch walleyes in deep water and release them only to die - birds are eating fish by the millions - tournaments kill hundreds of fish - and your going to jump on a guy who keeps one fish that is maybe a quarter of an inch out of bounds -

And getting back to measuring a fish - how accurate is the way they measured it - if you press on the fish you can get a bigger number - If I was this guy's lawyer I'd want to see the board that they used to measure the fish and how they handled it when they measured it - no one can made any measuring board exactly 19.70 inches - if the wood got wet the board will expand - there are a number of reasons you can't just say 19.7 and hold fast - there is something called common sense -

And as far as being a carpenter - hows this - I got two beams that are exactly 96 inches apart - and I want to put a board between them - looking at the space I don't know what size board I need - so I take a metal tape measure that has been sitting in the sun - the metal tape has expanded because of how hot it is - I use this tape and measure the space 95 and 14/16 inches - next I use same tape to cut the board at 95 and 14/16 inches - when I put the board between the beams which is 96 inches apart it fits perfectly - this happens even if I don't consider the width of the pencil line I drew on the board and the fact that the saw was perfectly placed on the proper side of the line - so what I am saying is - if the fish is close for Pete's sake use common sense and let it ride -

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So if you know what a 1/16" is, we both know very well that he didn't keep that fish by mistake. And the day metal tape shrink or expand that much, two carpenters working on the same project are going to share the same tape!
I couldn't care less if people don't follow rules but don't be a little when you don't and get caught....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

I don't get it.

Many years ago, an OPP cruiser followed me for 30 minutes along #28. Just south of Lakefield theres a stop sign. I stopped, went through, accelerated. Next thing I know I see the lights. He ends up giving me a ticket for doing 105 in a 90. I thought, wow you prick. You've been following me for 30 minutes, during which I do nothing wrong, no excessive speeding, no nada..so you know Im not some sped demon racing home........Then because I hit the gas after a stop sign, ( Admit I was chatting with the Ex and not watching the speedometer)..........Someone got up on the wrong side of the bed that day and it wasn't me.

However, I was speeding.

I didn't whine, didn't fight it, I signed it back with the money. I owned my mistake, it's called being mature and a man
***********************

We here complain ALL the time about the lack of enforcement complain all the time about boating accidents, people not wearing PFDs, and more.............

Good job imo, and happy to hear the OPP were on the water this weekend ( A long weekend when there are higher than normal incidents).

AS we'll as roads....I counted all kinds of speed traps this weekend, and saw quite a few pulled over on various roads outside city limits.
*****

So I guess "my" question is. Which is it?
Do we want to see more enforcement or not?

---

^^^^^This!^^^^^ BTW,JBen,that area is only an 80,not a 90. lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monster29/66

I thought their was 2 world wars that Canadians gave their lives for to stop tyranny so we could live free in a free country speak freely and enjoy our natural resources freely and not be asked " for our papers " while out fishing.

What did our veterans fight for if our law enforcement officers have become the modern version of the SS while making over 100k a year looking for chicken charges..

Are they here to serve the taxpayer or are we here to serve them.

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They are there serving the taxpayer and doing their job by " enforcing the law "

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monster29/66

how many people's lives are put in danger by an officers neglect of duty while they are out checking fisherman and not out keeping roads safe.

for those who think this angler is in the wrong do you ever speed ? Drive 110km on the 401 ? Drive 100 in a 80km zone or how about 45 km in w school Zone of 40... Everyone on this forum has crossed a line.. Although your speeding puts people lives in danger let's worry about one silly fish that likely is legal depending on how it's measured.

society doesn't need paid officers carrying guns to do this it can be dealt with by volunteers !

---

Saying that these officers are neglecting their duty and putting peoples lives in danger is a VERY bold statement and frankly quite ignorant. These officers were exactly where they were told to be, doing exactly what they were supposed to be doing. Just because you dont agree with it does not mean they were neglecting their duties in any way.

Your argument about ppl speediing is invalid. Sure people speed all the time. They also get ticketed when caught. Most people man up and pay the ticket they dont whine and cry about the cops picking on them.

Society doesnt need cops to enforce our boating and fishing laws? We can use volunteers???? This may be the the worst idea ive ever heard. What happens when this volunteer pulls up to a group of guys fishing and wants to inspect their safety gear, their catch and to make sure they dont have liquor on board and they tell him to kick rocks? We definitely need law enforcement enforcing our laws to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. If you want to play outside the rules and keep oversized fish then you deserve what you get when you are caught. Who is to say the fish was only 1/4" over? You said yourself you were 150 feet.away so not like you saw and measured it yourself. It wasnt the opp you said they left right afterwards. Let me guess it was the butt hurt guy that just had his oversized fish taken away and a fine handed to him that was crying that it was only 1/4". If it was really as close as claimed maybe he should have been on the safe side and let it go so he wouldnt be in his current situation.

This is so far over some peoples heads that the world revolves around fisherman and fish.

Lets make this real simple.

When you have the OPP conducting stakeout operations over 1/4" inch of a fish and not violent crimes, drunk driving or child molestors or child its poor utilization of law enforcement we pay taxes for.

the OPPs website says the have a Commitment to Public Safety... How was the publics safety in jeopardy over a fish ?

their was though two stabbing fatalities in Wasaga this long weekend on separate nights, the first party weekend of summer in a party town where fights often breakout.. What surprise eh ! But the fish where safe.

Two women killed on a motor cycle crash in Jarvis, One truck driver killed in Cochrane, and one Teen dead in a crash with a bunch of minors.


And OPP are on fish stake out....While criminals operate freely, unsafe drivers routinely speed on our highways and drive impaired but the fish are safe.

if we need fish cops hire more COs.. Get the cops doing what cops should be doing making a difference in community safety.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monster29/66

This is so far over some peoples heads that the world revolves around fisherman and fish.

Lets make this real simple.

When you have the OPP conducting stakeout operations over 1/4" inch of a fish and not violent crimes, drunk driving or child molestors or child its poor utilization of law enforcement we pay taxes for.

the OPPs website says the have a Commitment to Public Safety... How was the publics safety in jeopardy over a fish ?

their was though two stabbing fatalities in Wasaga this long weekend on separate nights, the first party weekend of summer in a party town where fights often breakout.. What surprise eh ! But the fish where safe.

Two women killed on a motor cycle crash in Jarvis, One truck driver killed in Cochrane, and one Teen dead in a crash with a bunch of minors.


And OPP are on fish stake out....While criminals operate freely, unsafe drivers routinely speed on our highways and drive impaired but the fish are safe.

if we need fish cops hire more COs.. Get the cops doing what cops should be doing making a difference in community safety.

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Agree with you M29 - we're short on money for CO's, but can pay 100k/year OPP officers to do this work.
Only the liberal government would see this as being efficient.
They don't seem to realise that both CO and OPP salaries come out of the same taxpayer's pocket.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

They don't seem to realise that both CO and OPP salaries come out of the same taxpayer's pocket.

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Since the primary reason the enforcement offices are out on the lakes is to ensure Boating Safety and Alcohol related checks, it makes more sense that they are OPP officers doing that function.

I'd sure like to know what kind of bino's these guys are using that they could set up a sting from across the lake to see a 1/4" measurement. ..LOL..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Since the primary reason the enforcement offices are out on the lakes is to ensure Boating Safety and Alcohol related checks, it makes more sense that they are OPP officers doing that function.

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CO's enforce alcohol as well, or at least that was what I was told by a CO when I was stopped and checked in my boat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monster29/66

This is so far over some peoples heads that the world revolves around fisherman and fish.

Lets make this real simple.

When you have the OPP conducting stakeout operations over 1/4" inch of a fish and not violent crimes, drunk driving or child molestors or child its poor utilization of law enforcement we pay taxes for.

the OPPs website says the have a Commitment to Public Safety... How was the publics safety in jeopardy over a fish ?

their was though two stabbing fatalities in Wasaga this long weekend on separate nights, the first party weekend of summer in a party town where fights often breakout.. What surprise eh ! But the fish where safe.

Two women killed on a motor cycle crash in Jarvis, One truck driver killed in Cochrane, and one Teen dead in a crash with a bunch of minors.


And OPP are on fish stake out....While criminals operate freely, unsafe drivers routinely speed on our highways and drive impaired but the fish are safe.

if we need fish cops hire more COs.. Get the cops doing what cops should be doing making a difference in community safety.

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Hahaha ... Where do you think they would rather be. Out boating and picking the low hanging fruit or dealing with those A-holes at Wasaga beach.



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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

CO's enforce alcohol as well, or at least that was what I was told by a CO when I was stopped and checked in my boat.

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Yes, they have the authority under the LLA. Years ago, CO's couldn't enforce the liquor laws. That's why they partnered up with Police officers.

Man I'm glad to have found out that it is illegal to have a can of beer in a boat - I've been fishing in Ontario for over 60 years and never knew that it is again the law - nothing like having a nice cold beer while anchored off in some quiet cove - having a beer doesn't mean that your impaired - I wonder how many other laws I'm breaking and don't even know it - I remember using small perch for bait until I found out it was a no - no - I think there are just to many dam laws - seems like you can't take a crap without breaking some law - I can see arresting a guy who is drunk in a boat but for just having a beer - man what is this world coming to - down here you can have a beer while your fishing in a boat as long as you don't get looped -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rick_iles

Yes, they have the authority under the LLA. Years ago, CO's couldn't enforce the liquor laws. That's why they partnered up with Police officers.

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And the scenario I'm talking about happened back around the mid 90's (pretty sure it was 93) in Blackstone Harbor off of Woods Bay on the Moon River basin.

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Man I'm glad to have found out that it is illegal to have a can of beer in a boat - I've been fishing in Ontario for over 60 years and never knew that it is again the law - nothing like having a nice cold beer while anchored off in some quiet cove - having a beer doesn't mean that your impaired - I wonder how many other laws I'm breaking and don't even know it - I remember using small perch for bait until I found out it was a no - no - I think there are just to many dam laws - seems like you can't take a crap without breaking some law - I can see arresting a guy who is drunk in a boat but for just having a beer - man what is this world coming to - down here you can have a beer while your fishing in a boat as long as you don't get looped -

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It's a motor vehicle so no open liquor. Save your drinking for when you are on shore and not driving.

At one time they could enforce the LLA in Provincial parks but am not sure what they're designated for now.
On the other note it must be nice to pick and choose only those laws that you deem suitable for yourself at that particular time.
One beer in a back bay someplace, 1/4 inch over or 1/4 inch under slot, that's OK. Ahhh, what the heck! Lets just dump all the laws that might offend someone at some time then we won't need any enforcement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sawbill

At one time they could enforce the LLA in Provincial parks but am not sure what they're designated for now.
On the other note it must be nice to pick and choose only those laws that you deem suitable for yourself at that particular time.
One beer in a back bay someplace, 1/4 inch over or 1/4 inch under slot, that's OK. Ahhh, what the heck! Lets just dump all the laws that might offend someone at some time then we won't need any enforcement.

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CO's,Park Staff and the OPP all still enforce liquor laws in Provincial Parks. It's OK to drink on your campsite,but,step one inch off? BUSTED! All alcohol is seized and $125+VIF ticket and really,that's a good thing or parks turn into drunken zoos.

Have to disagree Werner.
While there are more accidents on the roads due to volume. They are patrolled regularily. Drivers are tested and penalties hurt. If not points, insurance alone goes up a lot for speeding tickets these days. And as mentioned, the roads were patrolled in force this weekend, as all LWs are...the Lakes not so much, and it's there we find people flying around, being idiots, drinking, and less severe (over loaded tin cans, canoes.....)not unlike turning people loose in playgrounds with cars.

How ow many threads do we see about declining Walleye stocks..........dozens!!!!! The law is the law, would anyone expect to be let off if they forgot their licence at home, their bailing bucket, or PFD....

just because quite a number don't agree with you Monster, no need to insult people's intelligence. "Let me make this simple", "over your heads"

I scored 170 back in the day when I was being poked, prodded, tested all the time. Lowest ever was 140. You? So unless we are talking quantum physics I don't think this is over anyone's head.

Never gone through a ride check before?

People are being subjected to random stops because people think its OK to drink and boat or not have lifejackets on board. We have a poster in this thread who said as much (as pertains to drinking).

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

Why are people being subjected to random stops while enjoying a day of boating. When did a day of boating result in me having to give up my rights to not be harassed or stopped for no reason ?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by blasted_saber

Never gone through a ride check before?

People are being subjected to random stops because people think its OK to drink and boat or not have lifejackets on board. We have a poster in this thread who said as much (as pertains to drinking).

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I have gone through ride checks. They do not ask for your paperwork or they shouldn't. They should ask if you have been drinking and that's it.
When stopped in the boat you are required to show I.D. As well as a boaters card and prove that you have safety gear on board.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...1144c4c6f6.jpg



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

Have to disagree Werner.
While there are more accidents on the roads due to volume. They are patrolled regularily. Drivers are tested and penalties hurt. If not points, insurance alone goes up a lot for speeding tickets these days. And as mentioned, the roads were patrolled in force this weekend, as all LWs are...the Lakes not so much, and it's there we find people flying around, being idiots, drinking, and less severe (over loaded tin cans, canoes.....)not unlike turning people loose in playgrounds with cars.

How ow many threads do we see about declining Walleye stocks..........dozens!!!!! The law is the law, would anyone expect to be let off if they forgot their licence at home, their bailing bucket, or PFD....

just because quite a number don't agree with you Monster, no need to insult people's intelligence. "Let me make this simple", "over your heads"

I scored 170 back in the day when I was being poked, prodded, tested all the time. Lowest ever was 140. You? So unless we are talking quantum physics I don't think this is over anyone's head.

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Wow and "Stephen William Hawking, CH, CBE, FRS, FRSA is an English theoretical physicist, cosmologist, author and Director of Research at the Centre for Theoretical Cosmology within the University of Cambridge."
His I.Q. is only a lowly 160 !

I suspect you missed the point Jaycee, but that doesn't really surprise me given how often you chirp. Nothing better to do? Perhaps you want to discuss the habits of Great Horned Owls again?

If you want to get into a discussion about such things, if asked "how much stock do you put in such things". I'd answer "not much", I've known many a rocket scientist who were dumb as stumps, but that as mentioned isn't the point. Which was and is, before insulting peoples intelligence ( People you don't even know), you might want to pause, and consider how, um, let choose "wise" ( wisdom and intelligence) that is, given A) most people are intelligent and that virtually all "conversations" here aren't going to be about quantum physics and B) who knows, you might insulting Steven Hawking and suggesting the topic is beyond him and "let me make it simple" for you.
;)
Food for thought

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

Why are people being subjected to random stops while enjoying a day of boating. When did a day of boating result in me having to give up my rights to not be harassed or stopped for no reason ?

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Probably because of the families of the victims? You know, the wives, the children, the parents of the ones who were killed because the the law didn't stop the offenders? So, in an effort to prevent other victims from perishing due to drunken idiocy, you, the one with all those rights you cherish, are subject to being checked. Suck it up cupcake?

Oh, and you should know, you don't have a right to operate a boat. It's a privilege.:D

May 22 2016
http://www.680news.com/2016/05/22/op...led-this-year/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bushmoose

Probably because of the families of the victims? You know, the wives, the children, the parents of the ones who were killed because the the law didn't stop the offenders? So, in an effort to prevent other victims from perishing due to drunken idiocy, you, the one with all those rights you cherish, are subject to being checked. Suck it up cupcake?

Oh, and you should know, you don't have a right to operate a boat. It's a privilege.:D

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Its my RIGHT operate the boat without being harassed by state sanctioned bullies.

Also I'm against drinking and driving in a car or a boat probably more than most people. I've lost friends to alcohol related accidents but I doubt pulling upside of people on the lake and acting like a jerk and giving out tickets because your water resistant flashlights batteries are dead is going to keep people from drinking and boating.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

May 22 2016
http://www.680news.com/2016/05/22/op...led-this-year/

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Looks to me like their failing.
We should probably hire a bunch more and give them a hefty raise.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

Its my RIGHT operate the boat without being harassed by state sanctioned bullies.

Also I'm against drinking and driving in a car or a boat probably more than most people. I've lost friends to alcohol related accidents but I doubt pulling upside of people on the lake and acting like a jerk and giving out tickets because your water resistant flashlights batteries are dead is going to keep people from drinking and boating.

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When will you young guys ever learn? It would have so much cheaper to replace the battery's than pay the ticket? tsk tsk....

Haha nice try ... Wasn't me.


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You mean RIDE is a failure Stragglelake?
Seems to me spot checks work.

Did I say RIDE was a failure ?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

You mean RIDE is a failure Stragglelake?
Seems to me spot checks work.

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You are missing the point here. What we are saying is that the OPP should be doing exactly that. Doing Ride checks not wasting tax dollars chasing a fish over slot. Use the very expensive manpower chasing drunks and speeders. Let the MNR worry about the slot sizes. The entire process including the 2 cops, the court staff and the JP will not come anywhere near to recouping costs with the fine money $$ collected. Police should be out chasing menaces to society. Not sure a fish over slot is a menace. I have unfortunately been touched by the damage done by drunks. I lost a cousin and a buddy I went to school with to drunks. I have "zero" time or tolerance for the dim bulbs who feel entitled to drink and drive on land or water. Let the CO's worry about fish and let the police deal with serious crimes. Time wasted writing a ticket by the police should be used chasing speeders and drinkers. Not saying the OPP shouldn't be on the water, just that they should use their time effectively.
I drive quite a bit with my job and I think society would be best served if the OPP spent more time ticketing the aholes who text and drive. I see it all day long. Those morons kill people not some guy in a 16 foot boat who kept a fish over slot who could have been bleeding and would have died if released.
If we really feel that the line is the line and anything crossing it must be prosecuted then every person who crosses the speed limit should be charged right? Can anybody truthfully say they never drive over the speed limit? How many here text while driving?

Not missing it all.
Whats the harm in checking boats/boaters while also enforcing Slots, or possession limits or whatever. Also seems odd, people don't gripe about it during the hard water season this much.

Question:
Do you or have you complained about the lack of enforcement.
A) Yes you have.

Question
Do you think there will ever be enough money for enough COs to adequately cover/patrol our Lakes (and forest)
A) ?

Can't have it both ways Terry. And we know you would lead the charge if taxes go up. Or scream about bloated PS..........;)

Reality is, even with the OPP pulling double there isn't anywhere near enough patriing/enforcement or "visibility" (acting as a deterent). Not even remotely.

So what's more important here?
*************


[COLOR=#333333]Its my RIGHT operate the boat without being harassed by state sanctioned bullies.

[COLOR=#333333]Also I'm against drinking and driving in a car or a boat probably more than most people. I've lost friends to alcohol related accidents but I doubt pulling upside of people on the lake and acting like a jerk and giving out tickets because your water resistant flashlights batteries are dead is going to keep people from drinking and boating.

and then you went to imply spot checks ( RIDE or a rose by any other name ) was failing due to the report this far in 2016 fatalities are way up.

And since when have fines ever recovered the cost? Do you think by hiring 5 or 10 thousand more COs will change that dynamic? No, only jacking the fines with the proceeds going to the MNR will ever do that. But given the reaction here to a fine, it's probably safe to assume that won't fly either :)

heck, just last week people were complaining about increased parking fees......
So, is the take away from all this.

-We think expecting us to pay more for more OPP, SAR, Emergency services to handle the ever increasing flood of Human traffic into the playgrounds is wrong.

-We think paying fines for infractions (however slight) is wrong.

-we think paying more in fees for our outdoors cards, tags, boat and trailer fees is wrong

-we think the woeful state of the MNR is wrong

-we think killing two birds with one stone ( OPP pulling double duty while out on the water) is wrong.


Seriously, make up your minds. First decide whether or not there's enough enforcement. If you think there are enough COs, then the arguements that utilizing the OPP is a waste or misalocation of resources hold water. If however, you don't think there's enough COs, not enough enforcement, that arguement is seriously weakened.

Now let's look at reality.
Ontario is 1.1million square miles, with how many Lakes? Do you know, if you spent every weekend of your life visiting one, you will not visit them all? It's mathematically impossible.

How many COs do you think, and how many boats and trucks would it take to adequately patrol. And how many billions to hire enough, equip enough. And do note, I haven't even touched on the abysmal shape the province is in these days.

So which is it.
Do you want to see more enforcement or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

Its my RIGHT operate the boat without being harassed by state sanctioned bullies.

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Nothing makes the eye's roll more than comments like that....

Rules need to be enforced...don't like it, don't play.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

May 22 2016
http://www.680news.com/2016/05/22/op...led-this-year/

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boating deaths trippled to 8 ? so only 2.6 deaths last year... how does 0.6 of a person die? (I know the head line was meant to get peoples attention)

As per the article most of the "boats" didn't have motors. So my take is that they are talking about canoes or kayaks.

It should be law that a PFD must be worn while in a canoe, kayak or paddle board even without booze involved. You never know when the next fisherman or over zealous cop is going to come speeding into a bay creating a huge wake that may swamp you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Nothing makes the eye's roll more than comments like that....

Rules need to be enforced...don't like it, don't play.

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What if the RCMP starting knocking on people's doors and said I see you have a PAL we are going to search your house just to make sure everything is stored within the law and if it's not we will write some tickets.
Would you say the same thing ?



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

What if the RCMP starting knocking on people's doors and said I see you have a PAL we are going to search your house

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Again, if the purpose is to ensure enforcement of the rules and as a condition of holding a license to own a gun...why would you fight it ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Nothing makes the eye's roll more than comments like that....

Rules need to be enforced...don't like it, don't play.

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I have been boating for over 40 years and never received a ticket. I think I'm a pretty safe boater but I think the problem may lay in the OPP's delivery rather than the enforcement.
If your going to stop me while I'm boating and I haven't done anything wrong yet then maybe try to be pleasant and polite and use a little discretion on ticket writing. Sometimes some education and a smile can go a long way.



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Again, if the purpose is to ensure enforcement of the rules and as a condition of holding a license to own a gun...why would you fight it ?

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Wow !! That is some scary stuff !


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I would like to see more enforcement, but it be done by CO's. While it would require a total mind set change of the government, why not reallocate money from the OPP budget and give to the MNRF enforcement budget and have the CO's be prime for all law enforcement on the water and in the bush. Probably a savings of $25 000 per person of effort in salary difference.

Given that the CO's and biologists are collocated in the same offices, there is more information sharing / collection. (all the behind the scenes stuff and conversations about where there might need to be more enforcement effort that the OPP would not be privy to) It just makes more sense for CO's to enforce all of the laws on the water.

Maybe it's just paranoia, but can envision the OPP getting carried away with entering private property / bush lots / hunt camps under the guise of enforcing fish and game laws. This is probably going to be come to light next year when the marijuana legalization comes into effect.

What would public opinion be if CO's started setting up Ride programs on highways?

Yes I would. Check away, I have nothing to hide about how I store my guns, and I want everyone else to follow safe storage laws as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by B Wilson

What would public opinion be if CO's started setting up Ride programs on highways?

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They actually setup many Ride type road blocks during the moose hunt seasons. Im not anti enforcment I just think the police are better used chasing real threats to society. I bet 50% of fish thrown back in due to slot legislation die due to stress and injury.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by terrym

They actually setup many Ride type road blocks during the moose hunt seasons. Im not anti enforcment I just think the police are better used chasing real threats to society. I bet 50% of fish thrown back in due to slot legislation die due to stress and injury.

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I was implying that the CO's set up the ride programs on highways down in Southern Ontario, not targeting hunters on their way in or out of moose camp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

You mean RIDE is a failure Stragglelake?
Seems to me spot checks work.

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You seem to mis-quote me a lot , I'm not sure what that is about.
I only commented on the article in the link that you posted. It never mentioned RIDE or spot checks so I'm not sure where that came from.
When I said their failing, I meant the OPP are failing to stop fatalities from drinking and boating.
When the OPP release a statement like that article you linked to it can be taken 2 ways.
A-- They are failing
B--- we need more money
I sarcastically chose both.

If I was trying to accomplish something at work or at home and my record was 3 times worse this year than last year I would have to take a serious look at how I was implementing my strategies and I would have to admit the hard truth that I'm failing.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by B Wilson

boating deaths trippled to 8 ? so only 2.6 deaths last year... how does 0.6 of a person die? (I know the head line was meant to get peoples attention)

As per the article most of the "boats" didn't have motors. So my take is that they are talking about canoes or kayaks.

It should be law that a PFD must be worn while in a canoe, kayak or paddle board even without booze involved. You never know when the next fisherman or over zealous cop is going to come speeding into a bay creating a huge wake that may swamp you.

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A big issue I've experienced over the years are people sitting out in their car toppers/canoes/kayaks after dark with no lights. I had one close call where I saw them at the last minute just because the moon reflected off the water the right way giving me time to steer away. Many many times I've encountered this and when I do I purposefully drive towards them as if I can't see them. It's entertaining watching these clowns scramble around in their boat for a flash light to signal me. Dumbasses.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

A big issue I've experienced over the years are people sitting out in their car toppers/canoes/kayaks after dark with no lights. I had one close call where I saw them at the last minute just because the moon reflected off the water the right way giving me time to steer away. Many many times I've encountered this and when I do I purposefully drive towards them as if I can't see them. It's entertaining watching these clowns scramble around in their boat for a flash light to signal me. Dumbasses.

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That is a safety issue and the police are absolutely supposed to deal with that.

You purposefully drive towards them ......and you call THEM dumbasses.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

What if the RCMP starting knocking on people's doors and said I see you have a PAL we are going to search your house just to make sure everything is stored within the law and if it's not we will write some tickets.
Would you say the same thing ?



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The Police can do that already (with advance notice) whenever they deem necessary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by B Wilson

I would like to see more enforcement, but it be done by CO's. While it would require a total mind set change of the government, why not reallocate money from the OPP budget and give to the MNRF enforcement budget and have the CO's be prime for all law enforcement on the water and in the bush. Probably a savings of $25 000 per person of effort in salary difference.

Given that the CO's and biologists are collocated in the same offices, there is more information sharing / collection. (all the behind the scenes stuff and conversations about where there might need to be more enforcement effort that the OPP would not be privy to) It just makes more sense for CO's to enforce all of the laws on the water.

Maybe it's just paranoia, but can envision the OPP getting carried away with entering private property / bush lots / hunt camps under the guise of enforcing fish and game laws. This is probably going to be come to light next year when the marijuana legalization comes into effect.

What would public opinion be if CO's started setting up Ride programs on highways?

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Actually,with the OPP enforcing the FWCA along with everything else,we,as taxpayers,are getting a good deal. It's like a two for the price of one. They might as well because they're out there,anyway.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

You purposefully drive towards them ......and you call THEM dumbasses.

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With a beer in one hand and a joint in the other, and no hands on the steering wheel.

Settle down there Nancy..

does it not bother anyone the control over our everyday lives the government has over us? think about anything you can do that doesn't involve some level of government control or fee (re: tax)

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Originally Posted by bardern

does it not bother anyone the control over our everyday lives the government has over us? think about anything you can do that doesn't involve some level of government control or fee (re: tax)

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Thing is, these laws come about for our own protection because, drum roll please, somebody has done it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

The Police can do that already (with advance notice) whenever they deem necessary.



Actually,with the OPP enforcing the FWCA along with everything else,we,as taxpayers,are getting a good deal. It's like a two for the price of one. They might as well because they're out there,anyway.

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I know they can do it for restricted.
Are you sure they can for non-restricted ?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

With a beer in one hand and a joint in the other, and no hands on the steering wheel.

Settle down there Nancy..

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You seem to feel is perfectly acceptable, to purposefully drive towards someone in the dark, because it is fun for you, how absurd.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monster29/66

We watched the whole thing, The guy was nice as pie they checked him for everything else and he had it all. ( we were 50 yards away ). This was the only thing they could get him for and must of been how they attempt to justify their dragnet operation.

It was classic good cop bad cop... what a waste of my taxpaying dollars. There was 6 other boats and not one got even questioned for life jackets, boater cards etc etc as everyone carries that now with all the harassment we get on the water.

this morning I emailed our MPP, the Ombudsman, Minister of Natural Resources and Community Safety and Services asking why we can't get cops to patrol our roads but have time for fish patrol. Hire more MNR keep the cops patrolling roads and solving crime which isn't laying Bs charges over fish.

BTW the angler was pissed.. i a sure if he took it to the JP or MNR the fine would be tossed.

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No, the fine would not likely be tossed, and your understanding of the legal system is poor. The MNR can not "toss" a charge issued by the OPP, nor would they do that if they could. I had to toss back numerous "overs" on the long weekend, and finding keeper fish was a grind but I did so. Some of the fish I tossed back where just barely over, but they where no good so back they went. Additionally, the OPP has a marine unit out performing marine duties, they are not going to be a part of general patrol out doing traffic enforcement. The problem with law enforcement is that no one wants you unless they need you, and if someone gets pinched they scream bloody murder that it's not their fault. The guy kept a fish over the slot size, he got pinched, he got a ticket, he can own it! I have zero sympathy. About as much sympathy as I'd have for myself if I got a speeding ticket while speeding. It's not the policemans fault that I have a lead foot!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

You seem to feel is perfectly acceptable, to purposefully drive towards someone in the dark, because it is fun for you, how absurd.

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Might seem absurd to you (no shocker there) but it sure gets the message across.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bardern

does it not bother anyone the control over our everyday lives the government has over us? think about anything you can do that doesn't involve some level of government control or fee (re: tax)

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Canadians love 'Cradle to Grave'...we pay huge taxes to the government to ensure were are cared for from start to finish, so it is also in the best interest of society as a whole to 'govern' us with all sorts of rule and regulations...

The beauty is, the freedom we have also allows you to pack up an leave it all behind if you don't want to participate....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Might seem absurd to you (no shocker there) but it sure gets the message across.

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Yup , and maybe you do it to the wrong person and then, get charged with dangerous operation of a motor vehicle because that is what you are doing.

This really has gotten quite a stir so mission accomplished by my original post. I would say it's 50 / 50 on if people think OPP should be wasting time in undercover fish stings or have them fighting serious crime like druggies child molestors and impaired speeding texting drivers. At the end of the day though is OPP responsibility to police based on safety of community.... So prioritize accordingly.

few points..

Jben takes really nice pics, he's taken enough of himself he is now genius enough to believe his words are gospel and no one shall disagree with his 170 IQ...

6 of the 8 fatalities are kayaks and canoes as is typical with boater drownings yet the OPP werent out educating or staking out them for life jackets.. ( more concerned with a fish ) might want to reconsider your mandate so people aren't justified in perceiving it as neglect of duty which is how I see it and how I'm entitled to see it and say it because we live in a free country with free speech because Canadians not long ago stormed beaches to lay their life on the line so we could live FREELY.

I have no issue with law enforcement doing surveillance for pedophiles, violent criminals and drug dealers as those are serious issues for society as are speeders and impaired drivers. However fish on the line should be left to the MNR or volunteers as I said earlier because when a boat is poaching it's pretty easy to report them to the CO who can deal with it. COs rely heavily on tips from the public to do their surveillance for them and that is why they treat anglers and hunters with respect so we have their back.

Look at the issue of police carding and how it is taking people lobbying politicians to get this pre war Germany pratice banned. Do you think if the police focused more on showing the public respect instead of harrassing peole over chicken they would get the same level of " tips " of who the bad ones on the block are ????

after all this I did see the young lad last night on the water... He confirmed just as we advised him that when he went to the JP the ticket was torn up and tossed.... I know this because I had a similar thing happen for not having a licence on me. In my case the JP said all I ever hear from the crown is our police are short staffed yet they have time for this.

for every angler here who feels there should be no level of discretion on fish measurements I have decided to start helping the OPP with the speeding issues and will start fwd video of any truck pulling a boats down the county road more than 10km an he over the limit hour As they pass me that I routinely get on my dash camera. I hope one of the morons on here who feels 1/4 of a fish is more important than speeders and road safety gets the first ticket.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Yup , and maybe you do it to the wrong person and then, get charged with dangerous operation of a motor vehicle because that is what you are doing.

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Thanks, I'll keep that in mind next time it happens.:rolleyes: I could be running into a sting operation. :whacked:

You should be more concerned for those in the boat, that you are driving towards in the dark, to scare them. LOL.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

You should be more concerned for those in the boat, that you are driving towards in the dark, to scare them. LOL.

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Because they were sitting in the middle of the lake with no lights? Hey, have a great day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Thing is, these laws come about for our own protection because, drum roll please, somebody has done it.

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nanny state. kiss off government I can look after me. if what I am doing only effects me the government is out of line.

to the original post. there has to be some level of sanity here. we ALL drive 100kph or under on the 401 I am sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monster29/66

after all this I did see the young lad last night on the water... He confirmed just as we advised him that when he went to the JP the ticket was torn up and tossed.... I know this because I had a similar thing happen for not having a licence on me. In my case the JP said all I ever hear from the crown is our police are short staffed yet they have time for this.

for every angler here who feels there should be no level of discretion on fish measurements I have decided to start helping the OPP with the speeding issues and will start fwd video of any truck pulling a boats down the county road more than 10km an he over the limit hour As they pass me that I routinely get on my dash camera. I hope one of the morons on here who feels 1/4 of a fish is more important than speeders and road safety gets the first ticket.

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Great news, thanks, I won't have to release any fish a 1/4" or 1/2" over the slot size!!!! Btw, how dide you know it was only a 1/4" over?

You shouldn't bother videotaping because they won't be able to use for speeding....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bardern

nanny state. kiss off government I can look after me. if what I am doing only effects me the government is out of line.

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Ha Ha ...so when you end up needing 911...don't bother calling..take care of it yourself.

Yes, some people never want the police around....until they want the police around.

Your missing the point all together - keeping a fish 3/16 of an inch over or under hurts no one - for a CO giving a 175 dollar fine for that is what I call petty - completely uncalled for - because measuring anything is never 100% accurate - for those of you who think that the guy should have got a fine think about this - your driving down the road in a 55 mph speed limit but your going 57 mph - you get pulled over and fined 100 bucks - don't tell me that your ok with this - the first thing your gonna say is - holy mackerel officer - I was only going 2 miles over the limit - the intent of any fish law is to keep people from harming the resource by keeping too many or by preserving fish of a certain size for reproduction purposes - keeping a fish hardly out of a slot limit does hurt anything

I remember many years ago I was fishing here in Pa. with my brother - to keep a walleye it had to be 15 inches or over - well I catch one that is around 14 and 3/4 - I was using a night crawler and the fish was hooked pretty deep - I put the fish in the water and it lays on the surface - no doubt it wasn't going to make it - so I kept it - later on a warden comes along and wants to measure the fish we had - they are all ok except for the one - I explain that I put it back but it was dead - well he tells me that if he lets me go he would have to let everyone go - so he fines me - I don't remember how much at the time - I could either pay him or get a fine in the mail

Well a week or so later I get this letter in the mail that I need to pay so much - I just ignored the letter - weeks later a warden shows up at the house looking for me - my brother tells the warden that I was on leave from the army at the time and am now in Greenland - the warden mumbles something about guys being on leave and not following the rules - never did pay the fine - figured I almost got killed in Korea fighting for my country and no way was I going to worry about some stinking fish

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Your missing the point all together - keeping a fish 3/16 of an inch over or under hurts no one - for a CO giving a 175 dollar fine for that is what I call petty - completely uncalled for - because measuring anything is never 100% accurate - for those of you who think that the guy should have got a fine think about this - your driving down the road in a 55 mph speed limit but your going 57 mph - you get pulled over and fined 100 bucks - don't tell me that your ok with this - the first thing your gonna say is - holy mackerel officer - I was only going 2 miles over the limit - the intent of any fish law is to keep people from harming the resource by keeping too many or by preserving fish of a certain size for reproduction purposes - keeping a fish hardly out of a slot limit does hurt anything

I remember many years ago I was fishing here in Pa. with my brother - to keep a walleye it had to be 15 inches or over - well I catch one that is around 14 and 3/4 - I was using a night crawler and the fish was hooked pretty deep - I put the fish in the water and it lays on the surface - no doubt it wasn't going to make it - so I kept it - later on a warden comes along and wants to measure the fish we had - they are all ok except for the one - I explain that I put it back but it was dead - well he tells me that if he lets me go he would have to let everyone go - so he fines me - I don't remember how much at the time - I could either pay him or get a fine in the mail

Well a week or so later I get this letter in the mail that I need to pay so much - I just ignored the letter - weeks later a warden shows up at the house looking for me - my brother tells the warden that I was on leave from the army at the time and am now in Greenland - the warden mumbles something about guys being on leave and not following the rules - never did pay the fine - figured I almost got killed in Korea fighting for my country and no way was I going to worry about some stinking fish

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So if the limit on fish to take home is 6, then with what you are saying 7, maybe 8 is ok, because it does not hurt anyone. If that 15in minimum fish was actually 6 fish at 14in then are they still ok?

The fact is that the law was broken and everyone knows the law. If you are not sure about your measurement then it is up to you to make sure that you do not keep anything outside of the allowable limit.

If I were pulled over and given a ticket for 102 Km/hr on the highway when the speed limit is 100 km/hr then so be it, I was doing something wrong and I should accept that.

No license then get a fine for not having your license, next time you might bring it with you.

I don't get how so many people say it is not a big deal but then freak out when the next guy has an extra line out when ice fishing or shoots 5min after the end of legal shooting time, you cannot have it both ways, either we accept the consequences for our actions or we don't, I was taught to accept what you did, good or bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by diverduck

No, the fine would not likely be tossed, and your understanding of the legal system is poor. The MNR can not "toss" a charge issued by the OPP, nor would they do that if they could. I had to toss back numerous "overs" on the long weekend, and finding keeper fish was a grind but I did so. Some of the fish I tossed back where just barely over, but they where no good so back they went. Additionally, the OPP has a marine unit out performing marine duties, they are not going to be a part of general patrol out doing traffic enforcement. The problem with law enforcement is that no one wants you unless they need you, and if someone gets pinched they scream bloody murder that it's not their fault. The guy kept a fish over the slot size, he got pinched, he got a ticket, he can own it! I have zero sympathy. About as much sympathy as I'd have for myself if I got a speeding ticket while speeding. It's not the policemans fault that I have a lead foot!

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the fine was tossed by the JP - Diver Duck I mean Perry Mason by the JP... I'm pretty confident I know what the MNR can and can't do But keep lecturing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

I know they can do it for restricted.
Are you sure they can for non-restricted ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Oh,yes. The laws make no exception.

Release any fish you know if over the line, keep any fish you feel is under if you like. You do whatever suits your fancy and I'll do what suits me.

I'm kind of thinking of building a fish micrometer in my boat so I can get down to thousands of an inch and win the argument if called on it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by last5oh_302

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind next time it happens.:rolleyes: I could be running into a sting operation. :whacked:

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Yes you would not like to end up like the father and son jet ski team that decided I would make a great marker for their little race around the bay.......Remember the two OPP that had come out to "save me".. Well they were not even two minute away, and DSC works really well. Reckless driving or reckless operation of a watercraft, mean the same thing to your insurance company.

They were laughing after we chatted out on Lake Huron about coming to rescue me, they did not seem to have any "HA HA" when talking to the father and son. Oh and by the way.... I have Navagation lights and running lights on my Pontoon boat. Not that you would need the lights to see my 14 foot long fire engine red pontoons against the blue water on a very bright and sunny day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monster29/66

the fine was tossed by the JP - Diver Duck I mean Perry Mason by the JP... I'm pretty confident I know what the MNR can and can't do But keep lecturing.

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There have been at best 3 sitting days of court since the 23rd. No the charge has not been dismissed by a JP your friend in the boat won't have even made it to a first attendance as of yet, and I'm pretty confident you have no idea how the court system works by the statements you've made. Further to that, the MNR can not influence a PON that has been issued by another enforcement agency. I'm not going to argue this with you any further. It's clear you have no experience in the subject at hand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by diverduck

There have been at best 3 sitting days of court since the 23rd. No the charge has not been dismissed by a JP your friend in the boat won't have even made it to a first attendance as of yet, and I'm pretty confident you have no idea how the court system works by the statements you've made. Further to that, the MNR can not influence a PON that has been issued by another enforcement agency. I'm not going to argue this with you any further. It's clear you have no experience in the subject at hand.

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The only way things happen that fast is when you plead guilty and pay the fine...saving everyone concerned a lot of time and energy.

Your right, story smells fishy :)

Again.
The laws are the laws, they are there for reasons. In this case to help protect declining Walleye pops, something people here participating in this thread complain about all the time. They also complain all the time about the lack of enforcement. I guess except when it happens to them or someone they know.

We can be charged for doing 103 in a 100
We can be charged for walking down the street with a cold beer on a hot afternoon
We can be charged for Jay walking
We can be charged taking pics of OOS fish.

If you or anyone you know happens to be fined for something you think is insignificant. Man up imo, take it "like a man". If Im ticketed for doing 105 in a 100 I might think the leo woke up on the wrong side of the bed, but guess what. I chose to speed, not going to whinge about it. Likewise if I forget the flashlight in my safety kit. My mistake, not going to whinge about it. And if Im ever ticketed for having a fish 15 min before the season opens at midnight, or slightly out of the slot. My choice, or my mistake (maybe my watch is 20 minutes fast)

Oh and Monster, only because it is kind of ironic. And you will have to trust me when I say I'm smiling as I type this. Through out, you and other have argued the OPP have far more important things to be doing.

Yet, you or your friend forced them to attend court if thats how it played out when they should have been doing what? Ah, yes been out there fighting the bad guys, keeping us safe. And why, because you or your friend screwed up, kept a fish a little too large. Had your friend maned up and thought to himself..wow that cop must be having a bad day, but yeah I did screw up, no ones fault but my own really.....

He wouldn't have wasted the JPs time, the tax payers dollars and that constable would have been doing what so many here argued.

Something more important
;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Ha Ha ...so when you end up needing 911...don't bother calling..take care of it yourself.

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I am such a renegade I actually ride my bike without a bucket :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBen

Again.
The laws are the laws, they are there for reasons. In this case to help protect declining Walleye pops, something people here participating in this thread complain about all the time. They also complain all the time about the lack of enforcement. I guess except when it happens to them or someone they know.

We can be charged for doing 103 in a 100
We can be charged for walking down the street with a cold beer on a hot afternoon
We can be charged for Jay walking
We can be charged taking pics of OOS fish.

If you or anyone you know happens to be fined for something you think is insignificant. Man up imo, take it "like a man". If Im ticketed for doing 105 in a 100 I might think the leo woke up on the wrong side of the bed, but guess what. I chose to speed, not going to whinge about it. Likewise if I forget the flashlight in my safety kit. My mistake, not going to whinge about it. And if Im ever ticketed for having a fish 15 min before the season opens at midnight, or slightly out of the slot. My choice, or my mistake (maybe my watch is 20 minutes fast)

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again, it doesn't bother you that we have all these restrictions place on us, that have no real bearing on the public good or safety? Ontario is the province fun forgot.

Here's what I think is funny about this. How many posts on here do we have about not enough enforcement and CO's and poaching ? And yet we are arguing that the fish and game act was enforced and someone who by law was poaching ( in possession of illegal fish ) was busted. Hope no one comes to fish the ganny for the salmon run when the port hope police will be doing patrols under the fish and game act lol

I find it absolutely pathetic that someone is that desperate that he needs to keep a fish 1/4 inch over or under the slot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sawbill

I find it absolutely pathetic that someone is that desperate that he needs to keep a fish 1/4 inch over or under the slot.

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Even more pathetic that people support it and make excuses for him.

To a degree, of coarse it does Badern. I'm sure there are thousands of laws and by-laws we may not agree with, or don't see the point, or feel Leo has better things to do. If we knowingly choose to "break" one, or do so by mistake. Take ownership of "your" choice or mistake, own it.

Gotta be honest, if we want to talk colossal waste of tax payer dollars and limited law enforcement resources. Refusing to own our mistakes/choices, "whinge" about it (the ticket, not necessarily the merit of the law) fight it in court...which are already bogged down, taking up a JPs time, the officers time..when I only have myself to "blame"..man up imo, take responsibility for it. I feel that way about speeding tickets to for the record. :)

********

I don't necessarily agree with every single law or limitiation we might get fined for while fishing/hunting. I do though follow and support them none the less. We don't get to choose which we follow, which we don't, which we think is ok to let slide by 1 fish over limits. Why not 51 panfish, what's the harm? Or by 3 minutes, (what's the harm) or by 1/4 or .5inch

if the rule is 19.7inches that's the rule. Same as it might be for 40inch Musky. It's 40, not 39.75

Then it's agreed. Everybody who goes over the speed limit ( even by 1 km/hr) should be charged and nobody here texts while driving and always uses a bluetooth. Zero mercy. Because that would be knowingly breaking the law and in many cases endangering lives. To knowingly break these laws and condemn the guy with the fish isn't hypocritical right? The fact that police tolerate a 10-15% overage speed infraction says what exactly compared to the 1/4" on a flopping fish?
If we're going to be high and mighty and cast stones lets make sure we are 100% lawful all the time. Because anything less than 100% compliance is "hypocritical and Pathetic" right?

Well Terry, where do you draw the line? If the slot is 15 inches, and you feel a 1/4" over should be ignored, then how about 3/8" over. After all, that's only a measly 1/8" more. And if a measly 1/8" isn't really that bad, why not 1/2 inch over?
We expect laws to be enforced with consistency every day of the week, every week of the year. So, what is it? Whats acceptable in your view?
Hey, I have a novel idea. Why not make it a nice even round number so that everyone knows what the line is and now there's absolutely no confusion. Its either over or under. Period!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sawbill

Well Terry, where do you draw the line? If the slot is 15 inches, and you feel a 1/4" over should be ignored, then how about 3/8" over. After all, that's only a measly 1/8" more. And if a measly 1/8" isn't really that bad, why not 1/2 inch over?
We expect laws to be enforced with consistency every day of the week, every week of the year. So, what is it? Whats acceptable in your view?
Hey, I have a novel idea. Why not make it a nice even round number so that everyone knows what the line is and now there's absolutely no confusion. Its either over or under. Period!

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Have you ever driven over the speed limit? what do you consider acceptable? 2-5-10-15 km/hr over? Have you ever used a cell phone in a car without bluetooth? Have you ever texted while driving? Have you ever operated a car after drinking alcohol? Where do you draw the line on these infractions. You don't get to pick and choose what you decide to disregard. It's either within the law or not. So where do you draw the line on these illegal activites? Why do judges and JP's lower fines and toss out charges? I mean the law is absolute right?
I personally don't keep fish over slot as I hunt and fish with mostly guys who are LEO and they would never jeoperdize their careers over a fish nor would I put them in that position. Do I care if someone else does it? No I don't.

The difference; if you willingly break a law and get caught, you then don't blame the LOE for enforcing it if he catches you.

You don't then come on here looking for support in trashing them because you got fined.

Everyone transgresses, it's how you take responsibility for your actions that speaks to your character.

Well Terry, the next time you complain about 2 laws for 2 different people.

Personally don't know if comparing speeding on our roads, to slots and declining Walleye populations works well. I suppose if we are going to try, well we could (should?) consider what the roads/ecosystem can handle. In one case, the 401 isn't going anywhere, and can handle a little speeding. In the other case........

but either way, if you do get dinged for going over. Do you complain it? Do you fight it? Do you sign it and pay?

I find it absolutely pathetic that you would condemn some young man and speak down about a fellow angler who wanted to keep the one walleye he kept that was within 1/4 of an inch of the line. Which I believe he felt was legal. Hell we don't know it actually wasn't 19.5 and the cop wrong but just like the cop felt his opinion was absolute and beyond reproach your opinions on here and others do too.

To put it in perpspective for you the charge laid is an in fraction of being over 1 / 79th of 19.7".

that is the same as a charge for doing 50.63km per hr in a 50 km zone....Is that worthy of a fine ?

Have you ever done it. All who have and condescend this poor lad drive your self serving arrogant selves down to the Opp at 10% lower than the speed limit begin owning up to your mistakes and do the OPP a favour and turn yourself in.

Why won't they charge you ? Because they have better things to be doing... Same reason the JP tossed the ticket and no JBen no officer needed to attend the JPs office.

Clear infractions of laws need punished zero tolerance....Minor infractions of laws that jeopardize safety of others need punished....minor non compliance should be dealt with by discretion and reason which anyone with an IQ over 19.7 should have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

The difference; if you willingly break a law and get caught, you then don't blame the LOE for enforcing it if he catches you.

You don't then come on here looking for support in trashing them because you got fined.

Everyone transgresses, it's how you take responsibility for your actions that speaks to your character.

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who says he willing saw the fish over 19.7". The cop said it was closer to 20" it could of been 19.5" spending on how you read the tape measure flat on the boator laid along the contour of the fish ? Was the tail closed or open ? What do the regulations prescribe ???? They don't so it's called a grey area and open to interpretation !

Hence why I've been careful to include the word "mistake".Maybe he did, maybe he didn't know, that's immaterial...

Hypothetical "what if". Your in your stand, it's getting dark. Your watch says you have 3 minutes to last legal. A nice buck comes in, you pull the trigger. The CO waiting by your truck to see if you walk out with your gun encased hears the shot, looks at his watch and it's 2 min past last legal.

Not really sure if that is a good analogy either. As mentioned way back, I got dinged for 15 over on #28. Why, because while accelerating I was chatting with my Ex, not watching the speedometer....my mistake.

here is where I am on this whole deal. was the fish legal? No. But we have two OPP officers pulling down a pretty damn good wage tooling around in a boat most of us here can't afford checking for legal fish. Now you guys in the GTA can tell me better but every time I am on the 401 the lunacy on the road is appalling and let not talk about the fact there is not enough money to fund the gang unit to clean up the Jane and Finch area and the south of Ottawa but golly we have money for officers checking for fish and pea-less whistles.

If a CO had made the fish call fine, but how can we substantiated the OPP pursuing what is in their purview fish checks over what has basically become urban warfare in our cities, where we are watching pregnant mothers being shot on their way home from a basketball game. Sorry but I don't put a fish over that mother. If the Toronto and Ottawa police are over extended to deal with these issues bring the OPP in and yes a few fish might suffer but oh well.

The regs are very clear on how to measure. The tail closed and the mouth closed. It can be found right in the summary too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bardern

But we have two OPP officers pulling down a pretty damn good wage tooling around in a boat most of us here can't afford checking for legal fish.

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As mentioned numerous times, the OPP are out on the lake enforcing Boater Safety....if they see other violations to the rules they have the authority to act upon it.

again Mike we have no police money for the Guns and Gang units but we have money to check for whistles and ropes

Nobody here seems to be admitting to breaking the laws on a daily basis while driving while we all know they do. This condescension and finger pointing and name calling has no justification. Hypocrites calling others hypocrites. That's all I'm going to say on this one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

As mentioned numerous times, the OPP are out on the lake enforcing Boater Safety....if they see other violations to the rules they have the authority to act upon it.

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Not only do they have the authority,but,when presented with a flagrant violation,they're duty-bound to act. As most know,I did some marine work with the OPP way back when. You wouldn't believe some of the abject stupidity we used to see and I'm sure it hasn't improved since then. I'm glad to see them on the water. The effect when people see them "showing the flag" on the water is far-reaching. It lets people think twice about water and boating safety and that's a very good thing.

Those are good points Badern, as I always say the world is rarely black or white, usually a shade of grey. The flip side, or counter or other angle/perspective, is well there are many, too many. Sometimes I find it useful to go to an "extreme", and then pull back towards the middle.

In a perfect world, there would be more than enough OPP to patrol the highways, and everything else we expect of them. In that same world, there'd be enough COs to adequately patrol all our Lakes and WMUs and do everything we expect of them. Is the answer then, pull all the OPP of the Lakes/Rivers and re-assign them to where they can do "more important" things? I can only imagine the effect on our Lakes, where there isn't enough enforcement, as is, counting both COs and OPP, not even close. Perhaps Ms Wynne should fire 500 OPP at 100k each and use the money to hire 600 COs. Wed still be short COs and I suspect we aren't so flush in OPP that various area's of the province can take that kind of hit to law enforcement.

The cities be they the GTA or Ottawa, have their Police forces and pay land taxes so hire/supply those forces. Rural Ontario?
In an odd way, this does relate back to the recent thread about Parking/Ramp fee's in Innesfil.

I'm making an assumption this occurred on Rice Like. I wonder, how many thousands of people vacate the GTA each weekend and descend on Rice Lake. Where it seems like each year, there atleast one SaR (usually recovery) because 4-6 people rented a tin can and...Where there are certainly car accidents, occasionally as with Wasaga this past weekend knifings.....and more. What about
Chemong, Scugog, Buckhorn, Pigeon, Stony, all the Muskoka's and more....

And who pays for all that?
By and large not the residents of the GTA who flood anything within 3hours each and every weekend.

So the way I see it, is whats more efficient. Isn't it better to make use of the OPP and kill two birds with one stone, or perhaps as they and other often get accused of....shall we pay them to sit in donut shops while the Lakes are Swamped each weekend.

The answer to all of this is hire 5,000 or 10,000 COs. Buy a few hundred trucks and boats. Oh and while we are at it, re-hire 20,000 or so Nurses, roughly 10,000 GPs ( 1 Dr for 80 Ontarians without a GP) and we all pay another few thousand in taxes each year.

sign me up.
And ironically we know how Terry feels about being over taxed and govt bloat :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bardern

again Mike we have no police money for the Guns and Gang units but we have money to check for whistles and ropes

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You'd change you tune if your family suffered a loss on the lake due to a Drunk boater...so NO it's not an either or issue...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by terrym

Nobody here seems to be admitting to breaking the laws on a daily basis while driving while we all know they do. This condescension and finger pointing and name calling has no justification. Hypocrites calling others hypocrites. That's all I'm going to say on this one.

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Are you in a playing mood today?!?!

What most of us are saying, just like MikeP mentioned earlier, is not about breaking the law, that's up to you, it's about whining about it! I break the law everyday while driving or else but when I get caught I shut up and pay, that's all....

There is a line that you can't cross, if you do you can either play the system or pay the price but it both case you zip it (IMO).... If somehow you are border line and you are not too sure (+/- 1/4") you shouldn't expect the authority to be on your side, from my experience they will never be, so you should be safe and give yourself some play.

Do cops have better thing to do? Yes, but they do patrol our lake because of idiots so if they see something illegal why not inforce it. I got plenty of 125$ fines over the years on the lake so I don't like to see them out there either but they are doing their job...

If I was the officer involved - after measuring the fish and finding that it was about a 1/4 of any inch too long I would have told the guy to be more careful when measuring his fish - I would have given him a warning - realizing that measuring a fish wasn't exact science and he only had one fish - the result - I don't ruin the guy's day - he has $175 to spend on his family - and he goes away with a good feeling about law enforcement - having 7 fish instead of the limit 6 is an entirely different thing - or having a fish that is 2 inches too long - a cop needs to use some discretion at times

One time I was with my son and we were trolling near shore on Lake Nipissing - we each had one line out behind the boat - earlier we had been casting towards shore and each of us had a rod set up for casting laying in the boat - for some reason my son picks up the casting rod and shoots a plug toward shore - some COs must have been watching us because in a moment this boat comes flying over from around an island with 3 Cos in the boat - they told us we were only able to use one line a piece and it was illegal to do what my son had just done - they told us it could cost us $150 for doing that - they gave us a warning - you know something we appreciated what they did and to this day I have a lot of respect for this outfit - had they given us a ticket I don't think I would be feeling the same -in fact maybe I'd be pissed off and find some place else to fish - so giving a ticket for an infraction isn't always the best answer

Joe when the anti Trumps move up here I might take their spot in Texas lol.

This has been a great discussion in all seriousness guys. I just know if everyone agreed with me the world would be a better place ;-)

Don't mean to derail the thread but just curios what are the usual things OPP looks for and asks for when they stop you in boat?

depends on the size of craft. but boating license, bailing bucket, noise maker, life jackets, anchor, buoyant throwing line, paddle, flashlight and fire extinguisher come to mind. I am sure I am forgetting something other than fish slightly over the slot limit of course.

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Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

Don't mean to derail the thread but just curios what are the usual things OPP looks for and asks for when they stop you in boat?

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Safety gear.
Boating licence.
Booze on board.

If you have fishing gear:
- Fishing licence.
- Fish caught?

Gee - no toilet paper - with all that stuff is there any room in the boat for my tackle box?

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Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

Don't mean to derail the thread but just curios what are the usual things OPP looks for and asks for when they stop you in boat?

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At many retailers magazine counters and check outs,Transport Canada has Boaters Handbooks readily available free of charge that list everything required according to the size of the boat you're using. Pick one up and keep it with your tackle. It could save you some money and aggravation.

They serve the Liberal Wynne agenda.

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Originally Posted by Monster29/66

I thought their was 2 world wars that Canadians gave their lives for to stop tyranny so we could live free in a free country speak freely and enjoy our natural resources freely and not be asked " for our papers " while out fishing.

What did our veterans fight for if our law enforcement officers have become the modern version of the SS while making over 100k a year looking for chicken charges..

Are they here to serve the taxpayer or are we here to serve them.

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Agreed

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Originally Posted by cantcatchacold

Here's what I think is funny about this. How many posts on here do we have about not enough enforcement and CO's and poaching ? And yet we are arguing that the fish and game act was enforced and someone who by law was poaching ( in possession of illegal fish ) was busted. Hope no one comes to fish the ganny for the salmon run when the port hope police will be doing patrols under the fish and game act lol

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Originally Posted by jimmer

They serve the Liberal Wynne agenda.

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Finally !!
Yes they do.


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Originally Posted by MikePal

You'd change you tune if your family suffered a loss on the lake due to a Drunk boater...so NO it's not an either or issue...

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Come on !! They are going after the low hanging fruit for a tax grab. It's obvious because boating fatalities are going up proving that what they are doing isn't working.
To bring up families that have lost members to alcohol and boating is disingenuous to the families.


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More people die/injured from drowning and boating accidents then illegal use of guns and gangs in Canada.

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Originally Posted by bardern

again Mike we have no police money for the Guns and Gang units but we have money to check for whistles and ropes

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Originally Posted by MikePal

You'd change you tune if your family suffered a loss on the lake due to a Drunk boater...so NO it's not an either or issue...

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Which is exactly the point we are making. Instead of wasting time on a BS ticket the OPP could press on looking for drunks. Clearly if this guy had been drinking he would have been arrested as he should be. We welcome the OPP on marine patrol but we don't want them wasting expensive and useful time. Dragging in grieving families into a discussion of a fishing infraction makes sense how?

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Originally Posted by blasted_saber

More people die/injured from drowning and boating accidents then illegal use of guns and gangs in Canada.

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Fact source ???


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Originally Posted by stragglelake

It's obvious because boating fatalities are going up proving that what they are doing isn't working.

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Or, more logically, it's because there is not enough enforcement on our Lakes, people are still freely disregarding the rules.

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Originally Posted by terrym

Clearly if this guy had been drinking he would have been arrested as he should be. We welcome the OPP on marine patrol but we don't want them wasting expensive and useful time.

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You guys keep making the assertion that the sole purpose of the OPP doing a spot check was to measure the fish...they were there to ensure compliance with the rules...and seeing what looked like an illegal fish, as part of their authority and responsibility, asked to have it measured.

How can enforcement ever be considered a waste of time ?

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"Dragging in grieving families into a discussion of a fishing infraction makes sense how?"

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...you're still not getting it Terry...the fishing infraction is issued as a the result of a spot check....increased surveillance is going to continue because there, as was posted earlier, 8 deaths already in Ont...grieving families is a big part of why the OPP will be out in force this summer .

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Eight boating deaths already this year in Ontario

There have been eight boating deaths on Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) patrolled waterways so far this year, which is almost three times as many as this time last year.

Tragically, none of this season’s eight victims was wearing a Personal Floatation Device (PFD) or lifejacket. Investigations into these deaths also revealed that alcohol was likely a factor in all but one of the six incidents

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Originally Posted by blasted_saber

More people die/injured from drowning and boating accidents then illegal use of guns and gangs in Canada.

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Originally Posted by stragglelake

Fact source ???

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Well 8 people have died on the lakes this spring already, how many have died from Gang related activities in the same period of time ?

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Well 8 people have died on the lakes this year...how many have died from Gang related activities ?

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29 so far in Toronto
Your 8 covers all of Ontario


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So people accidentally dying on the water ways for not wearing there PDF's is not a comparison to people being shot by gang violence....so why are they being discussed ?

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Originally Posted by MikePal

So people accidentally dying on the water ways for not wearing there PDF's is not a comparison to people being shot by gang violence....so why are they being discussed ?

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You commented on it !
Is this your response when your proven wrong ?


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Originally Posted by stragglelake

You commented on it !
Is this your response when your proven wrong ?

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Wrong about what ?...it wasn't my statement, I asked a question (note the ?).

I'm just perplexed as to why people keep referring to Gun and Gangs..has nothing to do with Boater Safety ?......unless the gangs start shooting boaters who aren't wearing their PDFs.

Sorry my misunderstanding


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Originally Posted by JBen

Oh and Monster, only because it is kind of ironic. And you will have to trust me when I say I'm smiling as I type this. Through out, you and other have argued the OPP have far more important things to be doing.

Yet, you or your friend forced them to attend court if thats how it played out when they should have been doing what? Ah, yes been out there fighting the bad guys, keeping us safe. And why, because you or your friend screwed up, kept a fish a little too large. Had your friend maned up and thought to himself..wow that cop must be having a bad day, but yeah I did screw up, no ones fault but my own really.....

He wouldn't have wasted the JPs time, the tax payers dollars and that constable would have been doing what so many here argued.

Something more important
;)

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Not my friend or someone I knew just someone getting screwed around that I took an interest in

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Originally Posted by JBen

I scored 170 back in the day when I was being poked, prodded, tested all the time.

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That's a pretty elite club. Bill Gates, Copernicus, Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking are only in the 160 club.

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Originally Posted by blasted_saber

More people die/injured from drowning and boating accidents then illegal use of guns and gangs in Canada.

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what about innocent people, the people sitting in their house and a 9mm buries itself in the wall or worse in their torso. There is a big difference between urban gang warfare that and have the nanny state need to save you from you. again Mike I really feel you are your own "OPP" in this issue. I don't wear a life jacket 90% of the time, my choice and I assume the risks. When innocents might be be effected by my actions, ie pizz drunk, then it becomes a matter of the law.

I bring up the gang issue in this matter only because our policing budget as we are told is so slim they don't have funds to put more officers in our high risk areas. but yes sir, we have scads of money to have two constables wasting our time and our tax dollars checking kids for illegal fish. really

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Originally Posted by MikePal

Well 8 people have died on the lakes this spring already, how many have died from Gang related activities in the same period of time ?

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again Mike I really feel you are your own "OPP" in this issue. I don't wear a life jacket 90% of the time, my choice and I assume the risks. When innocents might be be effected by my actions, ie pizz drunk, then it becomes a matter of the law.

Mensa material, or so I was told by those who tested me non stop Species. They couldn't figure out why someone so "bright" was such a screw up and delinquent Species. Nor did it prevent me from making a litany of mistakes throughout life. As I said, ask me what I think about it, the answer will be "not much". Though I guess I should be thankful, as eventually it allowed me to have a career in finance in an area normally reserved for those with MBAs, and CFAs without a grade 12. ;)

Find it somewhat funny people will chirp, about things and people they don't know. Can't possibly know, nor the paths they've walked. Usually not the brightest thing itself.

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Originally Posted by bardern

I don't wear a life jacket 90% of the time, my choice and I assume the risks. When innocents might be be effected by my actions, ie pizz drunk, then it becomes a matter of the law.

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and your the type of guy that doesn't think there is a need for the Ride checks, Spot checks for seats belt use or Cops standing on street corners giving out distracted driving tickets .....it's all about enforcement. The attitude that it's "my choice" whether or not I follow the rules shows a lack of maturity into understanding how society functions.

Letting kids fishing in a boat know that the rules are being enforced is a great way to teach them to abide by them and NOT let them think they have the right to determine what rules to follow and what to ignore.

Oh, and for the record Species, given I assume you don't understand the testing. People don't stay at one level ( a "160 club" ). Everything from moods, (good day/bad day) and more will see "scores" fluctuate. As I said I was always between 140-170.
Also, as with most, have the "social awkwardness" that comes with it, at times such people can seem "slow", or difficult to understand. And more :)

still recall the post in a thread some years ago, when one of the mods I quite like said "JBen your obviously extremely intelligent, but hard to understand". Lol, classic.

By all means, be a doubter, hater, chirp about people/things you can't possibly know. But hopefully, in the future some of the insulting of people's intelligence we so commonly read in threads will dissipate. You never know who your chirping at. In my experience most people are, and further it ain't "all that". Wisdom though........

This thread went on much too long.