Interesting to read just who is calling the shots.. PM Butts.??
https://www.hilltimes.com/2018/03/12...rns-put/137000
Printable View
Interesting to read just who is calling the shots.. PM Butts.??
https://www.hilltimes.com/2018/03/12...rns-put/137000
Somebody has to think for the village idiot ! He couldn’t organize a three man march to a shyte house on his own !
Some interesting comments... look likes dictator Trudeau is working at consolidating power and silencing opposition...
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s angry response to a rural MP’s concerns raised at a recent national caucus meeting on the Hill over the government’s upcoming gun legislation did not go over well with some Liberal MPs who say it will have a “chilling” effect on their ability to speak candidly at the closed-door meetings.
According to Liberal MPs and insiders, Mr. Trudeau (Papineau, Que.) verbally “attacked” rookie Liberal MP T.J. Harvey (Tobique-Mactaquac, N.B.), chair of the Liberal rural caucus, during the Feb. 28 national caucus meeting on Parliament Hill. Mr. Harvey stood up to say that there was a “lack” of meaningful consultation with the caucus over the government’s upcoming gun control legislation.
“Justin was much too vitriolic and attacked him,” one Liberal MP, referring to Mr. Harvey, told The Hill Times, who spoke on condition of anonymity since the closed-door caucus meetings are confidential. “We’re also supposed to have the right to voice our opinion.”
,,,
According to sources, Mr. Trudeau, “went after” Mr. Harvey and “asserted” that there has already been a “robust, more than sufficient consultation,” and no more consultation was needed. Sources said that the whole caucus was taken aback by the prime minister’s unusually angry tone, which they said would have an “intimidating effect” on MPs’ willingness to raise issues in future caucus meetings.
...
PM Butts.
...
Liberal MPs and insiders also wondered why Mr. Goodale hosted the one-day National Summit on the Gun and Gang Violence in Ottawa last week during a break week when all Parliamentarians are in their ridings and regions.
Alot of questions about integrity, intent and competence and who is actually ruining the country ...... other pages have mentioned Australia like legislation but I don't have time to go back and find that article again.
typo (?) running....
Unprofessional, child like, ran by Butts .... Trudeau is truly unfit for even a drama teachers job.
The Liberals have said what will be included in the bill. It's not really a big mystery.Quote:
Originally Posted by mosquito
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
They have? Please provide reference.... all I see is items like this article that mention a registry, back benchers questions being ignored and them being yelled at and concerns being ignored and in one place I saw mention of changes and Australia and confused or lying idiots mention of Full Semi-auto assault weapons talked about.Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
It seems that the Lieberal's are going to put something forward that upsets back benchers and PM Butts won't accept anything but bowing on ... or maybe it is something more like in the admired gov't of Xi Jinping ... dictator for life??
Um ... try reading the news.
Goodale commented on this just a couple of weeks ago. He explicitly stated they would be implementing the remaining pieces of the 2015 platform, with the possible exception of the requirement to keep sales records.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
Well,there's a "fake news" story. Are you writing another column for McLeans,again? Please explain,then,why the very visibly upset PM angrily berated an East coast caucus MP representing rural residences who were very upset with upcoming firearms policies that will adversely affect them after he tried to raise the issue in caucus? Please explain why Liberal rural riding MP's are literally afraid to brooch the subject in caucus for fear of aggravating The Shiny Pony? How many gallons of Liberal kool-aid can you drink at one sitting,A.J.?Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=uAG7X_1520553097
The shiny pony is in a bit of slump. Basically everything he is involved in or touches turns to krapp. His approval ratings are dropping and his global rock star status is changing to hipster dufus, and I'm being generous here. As for gun laws, it will be incremental and as it is now a convenient "channel" change to get the simple minded voters to forget about China, India and the free trade negotiations.
To put it perspective Macron the French PM was met at the airport by the Indian PM not the janitor. Billions $$ were signed in trade agreements. Trudough came home with $250k but left $750k in India one of the largest economies on the planet. Pathetic.
I don't think backbench MPs are spooked by the contents of the bill. They're spooked by the volume of letters and calls they're getting from constituents. Note that the article actually says right out that the worry is more about spin and blowback.
As for the PM losing it, this is probably not the first time and I wouldn't assume it has anything in particular to do with any individual bill. The real point here is not guns ... there has been for years a growing tension between rank & file backbenchers and the caucus leaders both in government & opposition. See for example Mike Chong's democratic reform bill which was designed to restore power to individual MPs. Andrew Coyne has written about this at length. The Liberal backbenchers behind this leak feel (justifiably) that as elected representatives they should not play 2nd fiddle to Butts, who has been elected by no one. That's the real story of this leak. They didn't leak this tale to the Hill Times because they're afraid of a gun bill; they leaked it because they want Butts's wings clipped.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
Good take. Likely the PM's testiness is because the wheels have come off his image train and he needs to actually do something. He wants to get people thinking about something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
I'll bet that the LPOC executive ask for Trudeau's resignation before the next election because one more banishment to the political garbage heap like the last stunning defeat at the hands of the Harper Conservatives will be the end of them.
Good thought........but I highly doubt that will happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Save your money. Trudeau makes some big screw-ups, but he's still the Liberal's biggest asset. They'll take him out to the wood shed to smarten him up, then give him some new talking points and trot him out to once again win over the easily wooed. Prime Minister Goodale knows he can't win the next election without Trudeau.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
A few more zeroes.... M not kQuote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Justlied sits in the House with earphones on all the time and lets his puppet gallery answer most of the questions... he is either so arrogant he is listening to music or something to stay calm so he doesn't have another temper tantrum or PM Butts is there telling him what to think and do.
I will give our propagandist .1 and let's say the MP's are 99.9% having a complete fit on the content and with the magic reappearance of deleted data for Quebec.... another lie and the continued lies on their own pages (see https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/guns/ and ATT comment to start) and lies about deficits, balanced budgets, lies to India and about India trade, insults to TPP countries, violations of ethics rules... etc. etc.
(See https://www.oodmag.com/community/sho...-and-a-Summary for a partial list) you can pretty much expect some real sh** coming down the pipe.... resolution 151 or 42 or bill 233 (or 223) type ... maybe, he can blame Florida, terrorism and count on a year of CBC propaganda ..... who knows, I would not trust them farther than the answer you can on ethics ... oh wait,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DI9UVbvxAc
asked 18 times and the cardboard cutout ran by PM Butts can't remember his lines.... and lies and is found guilty.
They have to stop him from listening to Sophie Grégoire....that nut case has his ear and most of the stupid crap he does comes from her...you can bet the sock idea was hers and we know she choreographed the whole costume debacle in India.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
If you doubt it...read thru this and see where the our 'feminist' PM got his last budget content from..
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/sophie-...ef=ca-homepageQuote:
A few weeks ago, something happened which gave me even more hope. For the first time in Canada's history, the government of Canada released a budget that put gender equality at its core. It's a feminist federal budget, and it's unprecedented. Budget 2018 is remarkable because it says loud and clear that everyone, no matter their gender identity or background, should have an equal chance to succeed and realize their dreams.
This is not just symbolic. This budget lays the groundwork to close the gender wage gap, promotes equality by encouraging more parents to take parental leave, and includes the proposal to make Status of Women an official department of the Government of Canada. There are measures here that are going to make a concrete difference in the lives of women of every background, across our country and around the world — from stronger support for women from Inuit, Métis Nation and First Nations communities, to major funding for Canada's Feminist International Assistance Policy, which puts the empowerment of women and girls at the core of all our international assistance..
You want to know what he'll do on gun control...find out what Sophie Grégoire wants.
What Sophie wants... lol.
https://youtu.be/SkqvPkjjwj0
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Nothing firm yet... but you know I keep hearing about semi-auto's ... and look all of these seized were semi's ....
https://www.peelpolice.ca/en/news/in...7-53b328267890
I wonder if he had a RPAL and it stored properly, the 10/22 and A5 were butchered though!
The handgun is prohibited. I doubt he's a legal gun ownerQuote:
Originally Posted by mosquito
Seems Cuckoo is still squacking ....
https://www.hilltimes.com/2018/03/19...-ottawa/137843
However, Wendy Cukier, a spokesperson for the Coalition for Gun Control, said focusing on guns and gangs wasn’t good enough, and said the Liberals’ campaign promises around gun control were not very strong.
“They seem to be narrowly focusing in on issues related to gangs and guns, which are very important, but that’s certainly not the whole picture of the problems of firearms violence in Canada.”
Ms. Cukier said some high-powered rifles that are listed as unrestricted should be restricted, and that too many weapons classified as restricted or prohibited were being sold to the public. She framed gun control as a “gendered issue,” in part because guns are more often owned by men, and said ignoring it could backfire for the Liberal government.
No matter how law abiding a citizen, to her a gun is the danger .... she would fit in very well with the UK ban the knife crowd.
In those earplugs he wears is the voice of his wife saying "relax breath in breath out , breath in breath out .
Likely Butts telling him what to say, when to stand up and how to say it, other than ahhhhh! Of course the ahhhhh’s are just him waiting to hear from Butts!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by rossh
Ohh I like that !!! LOL....Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
I was telling my buddy that I can only tolerate listening to Trudeau when he speaks french...because the translator doesn't pass on the ummmm's :)
So with Bill Blair there, Toronto Star doing articles on BANs, other media lining up and doing articles on bans in cities etc....
as if the gangs and criminals will care ....
https://www.oodmag.com/community/sho...=1#post1064419
I would expect an election issue with lots of lies and spin coming up with what we are seeing... thoughts?
Listening to John Tory's ridiculous comments,we can expect reams of BS spewing forth from the usual village idiots. Get your boots laced all the way to the top because it's gonna get damn deep very soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by mosquito
Yes, it’s only just begun !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
The reality and spin are going full steam ..... some of the links in the Bill Blair thread show the complete delusional views and outright hatred of firearms ....Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
https://www.cp24.com/news/illegal-gu...-u-s-1.4025233
Registries are an answer, legal owners a problem .... that is what we will see no end of. I love articles like this .... according to the article the last couple years almost half are local sourced firearms used in crimes .... 49%.... 40% .... ????
"Illegal guns sourced in Canada surge compared to those smuggled from U.S.
You've heard me ask the question of why anybody would need to buy 10 or 20 guns, which they can lawfully do under the present laws," Tory said on Monday. "Why does anyone in this city need to have a gun at all?"
Jooyoung Lee, an associate professor at the University of Toronto who specializes in examining gun violence, said findings from recent years show many guns used to commit crimes in Canada have originated within the country. If civilians are able to buy firearms legally, there is always the possibility they will enter an illegal market, Lee said.
Any time you have a legal market for civilians to own concealable firearms ... there is always a possibility that those kinds of firearms purchased legally can flow into the hands of people who want to use them to commit carnage," he said.
Liberal solution.. registries, lower sentences for criminals (C-75), bans and rules for legal owners .....
I'd dearly love to see how he sourced this information to make such a blanket statement. He's not the only person making it,either. What dumb crook would try that knowing full well the paper trail would go straight back to him? I know crooks are a tad crazy,but,they're not stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by mosquito
Agreed though!Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
But You didn't even give me time to add this sh**.....
bans and C-71 will solve the problem according to the ideologue Goodale ....
Gun crackdown was being considered before Toronto shooting, minister says
Minister says Danforth suspect was not on any federal watchlists associated with national security
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/toro...guns-1.4759484
The suspect seemed to know what he was doing with a handgun in the video I saw and ... oh wait, they have been registered since 1934 ... and it is interesting some of the flow and source of documents.
https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum..._autoplay=true
and from CBS ... (CBC wouldn't admit them of course...)
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/faisal-...an-2018-07-24/
CBS ... more here than we will probably ever see on CBC .... IF it is true is still TBD but I know I can't trust CBC anymore!
https://twitter.com/i/status/1021899483624263680
It seems more and more there isn't a tragedy that someone hasn't already got an agenda, a spin and a purpose for on all sides. The lefts ban, silence and fear mongering crowd seems to have the funding and premade press releases though!
... and the usual blame the gun and the victims and Australia is the example again .. on CP24
https://twitter.com/i/status/1021802469893001217
They like bringing up the letter from 75 people for more laws.... but obviously ignoring the 80,000+ in the C-71 is useless category!
Here's the latest from the Huffpost: https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/0...ada_newsletter
Another one that likes to hear himself speak or see his words in print, makes him feel important and to the ones lacking any knowledge on the subject , think he is an expert.Quote:
Jooyoung Lee, an associate professor at the University of Toronto who specializes in examining gun violence, said findings from recent years show many guns used to commit crimes in Canada have originated within the country. If civilians are able to buy firearms legally, there is always the possibility they will enter an illegal market, Lee said.
Any time you have a legal market for civilians to own concealable firearms ... there is always a possibility that those kinds of firearms purchased legally can flow into the hands of people who want to use them to commit carnage," he said.
Toronto is going to be demanding gun bans from Trudough. Including semi autos. I expect Trudough to do exactly that.
Mayor John Tory voices support as council votes for city-wide ban on handgunsQuote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Council voted for a number of measures Tuesday evening to combat rise in gun violence
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...guns-1.4760358
Mayor John Tory has thrown his support behind a handgun ban in the city of Toronto, which council voted for by an overwhelming margin Tuesday evening.
Before the vote, Tory told CBC Toronto he supports the motion put forward by Coun. Joe Cressy, who represents Ward 20, Trinity-Spadina, calling on the federal and provincial governments to ban the sale of handguns and ammunition in the city.
"I will vote for the gun ban that has been put on the table because I can't imagine why anybody needs to have a gun in Toronto," said Tory in an interview with Dwight Drummond.
Council also approved a number of other motions, including:
- Approving funding for ShotSpotter technology, which uses microphones to detect gunfire and automatically informs police.
- Asking the province to fulfil its promise to provide $1.9 billion in funding for mental health supports and programs.
- Increasing funding for the Youth Equity Strategy by $2.6 million.
- Asking the chief coroner of Ontario to conduct inquests into all gun-violence deaths.
- Implementing a gun amnesty buyback program.
- Using funding from the city's reserve fund to immediately hire 100 new police officers.
- Investigating gun clubs and shooting ranges in the city to see if they are operating legally.
- Looking into the city acquiring and repurposing gun clubs for civic purposes.
Tory also put forward a motion calling on the federal government to strengthen existing laws against gun trafficking and said he supported stiffer sentences for firearms traffickers. That motion also passed.
Can you think of any more incompetent people than those working with Justin Trudeau and John Tory right now? Some of their ideas are in the spectrum of good to complete ridiculous .... simply put they have no clue on things like gangs, tougher penalties (opposite of C-75) and terrorism and will use a crime and tragedy to do what they want... not what is smart or right though!.
I doubt if his ban would stick as it cannot be enforced it is legal to own a handgun if you have an RPAL he cannot gain access to the restricted registry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosquito
Domestic firearms creating a problem is my puzzlement. Especially if they are handguns, which are still registered and have to go through the transfer process where both the original owner is known and the purchaser is vetted. Ok, a legal owner could sell a gun to a gang member, and get his backside out of sling by reporting it stolen. Understandably he might get away with this once, but shouldn’t it raise a few red flag if they attempt to do it multiple times? To me, if something like this happening multiple times wouldn't be a clear indication that the individual is in the business of trafficking. If the system can’t pick something like this up, its administration needs to be address and tighten up, and the full force of the law should come to bear upon the individuals caught involved.
You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
That's exactly why I'm having a tough time understanding how those claims of "domestically sourced" firearms being diverted by lawful owners can be even partly accurate,simply because of the paper chase involved. If the claims can be substantiated (other than a one-of occurrence) ,then,that would be proof positive in glaring detail,that the premise of the entire gun registry system is a complete sham. The Liberals would certainly be caught between a rock and a hard place,then,wouldn't they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
Tory and the city are calling on the Feds to take action and bans...
ISIL is claiming him as one of theirs.
https://www.680news.com/2018/07/25/i...th-shooting-2/
We have a press release from the family .... that seems to be questionable at best or complete fiction.
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/07/t...im-brotherhood
Claims about the murderer being known to police and intelligence .... possibly pure b.s.
Goodale claiming there were plans in the works for a cracks down .... were they waiting for something (crime/terrorism/closer to election...)
..... alot of questions but who to believe ..... we can trust CBC for the Libs agenda which is to win the election so that rules them out on trust .... much of the media is pro M-103 and anti-firearm or just plain liars .... rules them out.
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...ster-says.html
I guess Brian Lilley and Ezra Levant will cover it in more detail as usual.
Brian
No, 50% of guns used in crime are not from Canada
http://brianlilley.com/no-50-of-guns...t-from-canada/
"Young obtained the document through Access to Information and posted it to his website. At the bottom of page 17 you see this nugget about guns seized in Western Canada.
So this is about a small subset of guns seized in Western Canada. Of 783 trace requests, just 229 could be traced and 50% of those traced were domestically sourced.
That does not equal 50% of all guns used in crime in Canada."
So 229*.48 ...so 110 out of 783 .... and the media and John Tory say 50%?????.
Latest twitter from Ezra...
https://twitter.com/ezralevant/statu...84588053712896
Faisal Hussain's brother Fahad is a drug dealer. His friend Maisum Ansari was arrested for 337 firearms related charges. But pay no attention to that. The CBC says he had a "million dollar smile" and was "humble and polite". Ignore this whole ISIS thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosquito
You would think, by now, that a number of the individuals behind these episodes of domestic firearm being sold to criminals would be in jail serving time. According to the firearm act, trafficking in firearms can net you a pretty impressive sentence. My puzzlement is why are we hearing about these cases in the news. That would send the message, publicly, to those involved in such trafficking, that this type of activity will not be tolerated.
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
Yea, I call Bullshyt on that one as well. Once again, they will attack the lowhanging fruit.....the legal gun owners! While they are at it, they should make murder illegal as well....wait a minute !!!!! :whacked:Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Edit: Now they are saying the gun belonged to Hussein’s drug trafficker brother, who is now in a coma from a drug overdose. The gun was an illegally imported firearm from the States......go figure!
All the laws are in place to deal with this sort of thing.....they worked well, didn’t they !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Yep ... the ideologue Mayor keeps spouting ignorance...
and Goodale is right in there too....
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...-goodale-says/
Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale says there is no known connection between the Toronto shooting suspect and national security concerns, and that the Trudeau government is prepared to consider a proposal to ban handguns.
...
In May, the president of Quebec City's Centre culturel Islamique de Québec appealed to a parliamentary committee to include a ban on assault weapons in proposed gun-control legislation.
Sounds like the Toronto Star article saying ban semi's and sniper rifles .....
I will give credit where it is due, Brian and Ezra actually looking at reality and even CTV seems fairly reliable.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/toront...urce-1.4027129
Actually telling the truth on most of the story... like the fact a city ban would be a bylaw.... still a few ignorant comments but in general a very well covered. The lie about the 50% local supplied was still put forward. The fact cigarettes and guns are still smuggled so more laws on legal owners is useless .... good they are in the few that bring up the reality!
The latest on Gun Control from Ralph Goodale, "Banning Handguns in Toronto " would take considerable time as it would necessitate the reworking/rewording of The Criminal Code .
Goodales title should be “BANNING LEGAL HANDGUNS IN TORONTO “
You can ‘t ban illegal ones twice there already banned .
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
How is it, they felt they could better undermined the underground trafficking of marijuana by decriminalizing it, and legalizing its use, while they seem to be going in just the opposite direction with firearms. By adding ever increasing layers of gun-control, the underground trafficking of guns appears to be escalating, not abating. You would have thought by now they might have come to the realization, that by continuing to suppress firearms, that they might just be moving in the wrong direction. After all they’ve done a complete turn about with marijuana. Perhaps they’re waiting to see how that turns out before they make any further reverses. LOL
You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
That will never happen.....simply put, they’ll tax the Heii out of weed.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
Thirty five year ago or so when I started in law enforcement in Toronto crazy people were locked up at 1001 Queen Street West in the Queen Street mental health hospital.
Some where along the next few years the Government decided that it would be better not to keep crazy people in a locked hospital but better for them to be let go and wonder the street,s and they would simply take their med,s and everything would be OK.
Well it was not OK because most of these poor souls ended up in the poor neighborhoods, sometimes selling their med,s or losing them and or also taking street drugs.
The end result is that the Police had to deal with them and over the years many more Police got injured and many more mentally ill got killed.
This Danforth shooter 35 years ago would probably never have gotten out of Queen Street Mental Hospital.
Nobody in the press is pointing a finger at any level of government for changing this policy and the street of Toronto are full of mentally ill people.
In a very sad way it might be a blessing for this to have occurred,because the general public might waken up and ask WHY THESE PEOPLE ARE WALKING OUR STREETS.
Unfortunately the talking heads are now focusing their attention on all the wrong direction.Mayor Tory (Conservative,should know better) think,s a ban would be good.
There is basically a ban already for the good guys and none for the bad guys,how hard is that to figure out.
The pro gun side should really be careful who is talking for them,last night I watched Wendy Cukier on CBC debating another lady and basically wiped the floor with her.The pro gun lady had all her facts and figures wrong and got completely muddled when trying to explain her position.
None of this is going to get any better, the new officers are doing little to nothing in a pro active fashion now that carding is basically banned.Most of them would not even know what to do in any event as they are not properly trained.
All I can say lads/ladies is hold onto your hats and Politicians are again looking for simplistic solutions to long standing problems that were caused by them in the first place.
I remember those days well. We often wondered if we should trade our blues for white coats and nets after the Mental Health Act was amended. I noticed that the only other person to mention this while doing a media interview was Bill Blair. I bet he was clued in to not mention that again,too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
Well given that thing some said would never come to pass has and the call to ban all but single action bolt rifles is official.
At what point do people start pointing fingers where they should.
At the brass, politicians and yes Leo.
Whether guns are being smuggled in from the US or as they claim in an effort to deflect from their failings, an upswing in domestic sources.
Bottom line.
More illegal guns, more black market, more illegal activity. No way to mince words. They are failing, not doing
Their jobs.....
If it’s a question of manpower, or resources. That’s the brass not
Doing their jobs...
If it’s a question of beat cops not knowing who the gang bangers, gun runners are.
Do a Fn better job....
If the intelligence services can’t find out whose running guns...do a better job.....
If they can’t stem illegal aliens at the border, how many guns get past them. That’s border services. Do a better job...
Etc etc
Time for the kid gloves to come off....on both fronts imo
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.thes...ol-debate.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoR
It is pretty clear from the American experience that gun free zone don't work. If anything they act as a magnet that attracts violent behaviour. They are areas in which shooters have no fear of encounter any armed resistance. It is not the case that a gun has to be brought into use in order to act as a deterrent, it enough that it is presence and could be brought into play should the circumstance warrant it. Having gun owners scattered amongst non-gun owners gives criminals something to worry and think about. If you take that away, you would just be begging for an escalation in gun violence.
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
That can be viewed a couple ways (most things can). Take Chicago for example. Pro gun, and the far pro gun (nra), will point at Chicago as the prime example of and argument against gun control.
Yet don’t pause long enough to say, or think to ask the question...How bad would things be there if there were no controls..........
Flip side.
Take many Antis, they do no different. They will point at Australia as a model of Success following their “ban”. But they don’t long enough to think, or simply look at a globe and see that it’s an Island...............in the middle of no-where......and certainly not sharing a border, with the US.......
The problem here is criminals. Whether it’s gang bangers shooting each other and the odd bystander. Whether it’s bangers with drug money, wanting to buy illegal guns to shoot each other with regardless of the source ( domestic or smuggled over the Swiss cheese border), or the numerous organized crime organizations from bikers to somali, Italian, Russian, other.....who see big money in selling guns...to bangers, Ex husbands with bad blood, teens, and mentally unstable Hussein’s....
And that all, is on the various branches of law enforcement, Justice, intelligence. They, yes they, aren’t doing their jobs.....or a good one anyways.
Odd
Trudough will use this to ban handguns and semiautomatic long guns. I bet over half the population would approve.
... and that Australia model .....
Take a look at the Australian stats....
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-2...tralia/6483762
The full report wasn't made public but key data was released by Jason Clare, then police and justice minister.
It found:
There were 2.75 million registered guns in Australia held by 730,000 licence holders
Conservatively estimated there were 250,000 long barrel guns and 10,000 handguns in the illegal firearms market
Guns in the illegal market stayed in circulation for decades - the oldest traced gun was a functioning revolver manufactured in 1888
Like the institute's study, the commission's report showed that theft was a greater source of illegal guns than those illegally imported, and by far the biggest source was guns not surrendered or registered in 1996.
They talk about the amnesty netting 50,000 .... but in the picture I see 5 air rifles (or more), two single shots including what looks like a Martini etc.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...llegal-weapons
A bit about handgun ownership in Australia
https://aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/tandi361
Legal status of handguns used in homicide
The majority of firearms used to commit homicide in Australia since 1989-90 were held unlawfully at the time. Of the 150 offenders known to have used a handgun to commit homicide, 12 percent were licensed firearms owners and two percent had used a registered handgun. Considering all firearms (n=313),15 percent of offenders held a firearms licence and 11 percent of firearms used were registered.
Handguns used in armed robbery
Twenty-two percent of armed robberies in 2003 were committed with a firearm, while this was 13 percent each in 2004 and 2005. The use of handguns in armed robbery was 10 percent or less over the same period. However, similar to homicide, handguns were the predominant firearm used, with between half and almost two-thirds of firearm-perpetrated armed robberies involving a handgun.
If we can't stop cigarettes from being illegally shipped by the ton .... and Australia with no border countries still has an illegal issue .... it is pretty darn ridiculous to think a ban would have any effect in Toronto!
Then you throw in the 3-D printers....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJyf1IrHtcE
How many have been killed by illegal guns in 2018....the yearly average for the entire country, all guns including suicide is around 200.
https://globalnews.ca/news/3637148/f...s-canada-2017/
An average of 4 per day nationally.
Does Canada have a gun problem? Arguably yes, depending on the angle (spin) one decides to take.
Does Canada and Toronto have bigger problems? Absolutely yes...
What do they all have in common?
Illegal activity, gangs, drugs, and illicit money.........
What do they all have common?
Highly paid law enforcement agencies who won’t admit they clearly aren’t good enough. Crystal clear when those same people and their chiefs, and their masters, be they Goodale or Tory, whine about guns. Fine, do a better Fn job.....
Hopefully, for a change, gun advocates, others, this time turn the spotlight and focus on them, the underlying problem and their failings......and they in turn rue the day they kicked the lid off Pandora’s box.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoR
You definitely have a point. I use to believe if you could eliminate the demand, you could eliminate drug trafficking. In other words it would be better to go after the users not the traffickers. You can understand my puzzlement, because clear traffickers by distributing the stronger opioids, are losing a fair bit of market share, through death by overdose. It does appear to be doing much in terms of affecting their bottom-line. That maybe why they are not particularly concern about the government getting into the marijuana business, if anything having legal marijuana readily available might very well lead to a further expansion of their market place. But hey, marijuana use doesn’t mean, there will be any likelihood that individuals will develop an interest in experimenting with the stronger opioids? Right! It is truly strange how the government has reversed its thinking on that idea.
You don’t stop hunting because grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
The first, obvious point here is that an election is a year off and much can change in that time. It is possible that all Toronto's requests to the federal government will come to nothing.
That would be either (a) a guy who was approached and told that if he didn't play along with the plan, bad things would happen to him, or (b) a guy who saw a chance to make and hide away a lot of money as a nest egg for when he got out of jail in a couple of years.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
The most widely reported case involved a guy who moved 47 guns. That's a lot of money.
In fact, what apparently happened was that the administration was loosened up, which created the problem. Previously, there was a much lower threshold to raise a red flag on frequent purchases. This was loosened. You can expect it has been tightened again, months ago, but we will have to wait over a year to actually see what the results were.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
There have been over 40 cases, apparently. Since the registry was instrumental in providing the evidence to support the charges, it's hard to see that it was a complete sham. And with a change to the standard for raising a red flag on frequent buys, the straw buy route will become to risky for anyone to try to make money at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
What Lilley didn't tell you is that when Mark Saunders says 50%, he's not talking Canada-wide and he's not referring to that report from BC. He's referring to data gathered by TPS specifically about guns recovered in Toronto.Quote:
Originally Posted by mosquito
Lilley apparently didn't bother to get on the phone and call Saunders and ask the question, which is kind of Journalism 101.
Toronto is in fact asking for a ban on sales of handguns and "handgun ammunition" in the city (Joe Cressey's motion). At the same time, they are also asking for a ban on handguns, semi-auto rifles, and semi-auto shotguns nationwide (Kristyn Wong-Tam's motion). Either of these, if enacted, would easily stick. I don't expect either to actually happen, though: Cressey's motion would have no practical effect and Wong-Tam has even said to the media it would be symbolic, which is not going to pass muster if it is challenged. And Wong-Tam's would cost over $2 billion.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
The city ban could equally be based on provisions in the Criminal Code, so that anyone violating that by-law would be facing the full force of the criminal law. This would depend entirely on how the law was written. I don't have a crystal ball with which to predict the future, but it seems Ezra's and Brian's might be defective.Quote:
Originally Posted by mosquito
Finally:
There is no evidence for this. In fact, gun-free zones are made gun-free because they are public spaces. Mass public shootings, by definition, occur in public spaces. Funny how that would create a correlation. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
Yet Mass shootings still occur in gun free zones, be they schools or clubs. By definition, not effective...and if we listen to cries south if the border, are they to, not on the rise.....
Jesus.........
How hard is it to think things through. Find the holes in arguements or weaknesses in logic? It’s not hard to think it through and see that, cities can enact by-laws no differently then they can set no discharge which include bows or not....Not hard. Equally just as easy to think a counter arguement through and see that um, banning guns in schools and making them gun free zones....
It’s not hard, when someone with clear bias points to Chicago as the epitome of gun control failure, to point out....Um how can you say it’s not working, when you don’t know how bad things would be if they weren’t so “strict” and it is working in Canada...... Nor is it hard to suggest anyone that points to Australia to look at a globe and understand something a grade schooler can figure out....
Unless one biased, close minded and unwilling to find what is right, rather than who is right.
To me it’s always been fairly simple. If we don’t find equitable, effective solutions, things will only get worse, until the day comes, when............
Bottom line.
The rise in this that that and the other including straw man purchases, which in itself is something if a straw man arguement....is on
Law enforcement. They aren’t doing
Their jobs
Couple other things that should raise red flags...
Any statistician that’s worth their degree knows that cherry picking a 4 year trend is a joke. Yet, that is exactly what some do when referencing both registry and Harper.
Including TPS. Go to their analytics portal and stats are 2014-present. Have to wonder why they are cherry picking...anti gun agenda? Don’t think so. More likely ( IMO) they don’t want the public asking questions about their failings and short comings
combating, drugs, gangs, organized crime.
2 minutes on Google, revealed that the 13 year gun death avg for TO is 34.....
The worst years being
2005
2007
2016
2017
All significantly higher than the average. Yet 2005-2007 by far, by far, not by a little but by a lot were the worst.
Yes it’s because Harper killed a couple things...lol
Fact.
The current 5 year average is
31.2 ( lower than the 13yr average) despite the screams, howls, spins by the left, and closed minded.
The 5 year average for 2005-2009 (registry years) was
39.4
20% higher than the 13 year average.
Lol. Yep the registry did so much...and it’s absence explains so much..
:)
Personally not totally against it. Don’t mind the new goal of retailers having to record things..
But please.
And the simple fact of the matter is that, it does nothing to combat the problem. But rather a symptom.
Same or same old
Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
[COLOR=#000000]Finally:
[COLOR=#000000]
https://www.oodmag.com/community/ima...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Gun Nut https://www.oodmag.com/community/ima...post-right.png
It is pretty clear from the American experience that gun free zone don't work. If anything they act as a magnet that attracts violent behaviour.
[COLOR=#000000]There is no evidence for this. In fact, gun-free zones are made gun-free because they are public spaces. Mass public shootings, by definition, occur in public spaces. Funny how that would create a correlation. :)
The point I was attempting to make is that gun-free zone, are areas of choice for gun violence, because they reduce the likelihood of any one shooting back. These gun-free zone as you point out are generally in the public arena. However, by attempting to make a whole city a gun-free zone, it seems to me, that it would be a movement beyond the public arena, into the sanctity of private space. Leaving home owners to the mercy of home invaders.
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
I have to agree with you that the Police officers today are just not getting the job done,but the environment they are working in is so much changed from years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoR
What LEO did years ago to enforce the law would probably get them in trouble really fast today,they know this so the simple solution is simply to back off.
But that has also not changed years ago plenty of officers were not pro active and kept their noses clean and there were other officers who did get down and dirty with the criminals and they got the complaints and flack.
The biggest mistake was taking officers out of Community Housing Projects who walked the beat and knew everybody AND were in those projects for years.I was in Regent Park, Moss Park and St Jamestown for 15 years.I can tell you that local criminals even although they had access to guns (much less) did not dare carry one on them on a regular basis.The reason why is that they did not know when they might get arrested.
There are no officers these days walking and working in uniform and old clothes for 15 year stints in one area.When you become part of the neighborhood, you are actually in the hood more than home if you are anything of an officer you will get to know every criminal on your beat,plain and simple.Their names,street handles,baby mothers addresses,parents addresses,cars,rank in the gang and so forth.
Identifying criminals is really simple easy even if your a rookie out of college.Criminals are the one,s who get up at 1pm after another night of partying,they drive flash cars,wear flash clothing and have money without having a real job.They have to sell their wares generally on the street so will be seen.Your not going to see them in uniform,unless you get into a vacant unit with a pair of binoculars and look down on where they are dealing.
Once you have pinched them for traffficking,selling to an undercover,or a choke arrest, your in business.Terms of release (yeh they will get released) NOT TO BE IN REGENT PARK, curfew, .... Now the fun part starts, you get to pinch them again for breaching their bail because they will do that almost right away.
Your portfolio of criminals is run through CPIC every quite Sunday morning,guess what up pops more arrest warrants from other divisions where they have been active,occurrences where they are named suspects,driving suspensions.....Your back on the street now hunting them down.
What do you need to hunt them down, well you better be able to run and FAST,you better know the area as well as they do and you have to have no fear.You should have no fear in arresting them as you have a warrant for their arrest.Generally this represents some more charges as they are probably carrying a weapon and or drugs.
Back to bail court another release and the fun starts over again.Hunting them down day after day,week after week,year after year.Chipping away.
That is until they get shot by one of their associates,but that,s ok there are lots to replace them.
If your an officer and don,t know your local criminals, don,t have informants, you cannot play this game.But if you do you are actually much safer on the street because they respect you and basically have to kill you to stop your efforts.A rookie officer that know,s nobody is much more likely to get killed than a grizzly old vet that knows everybody as long as that vet does not get complacent.
Right now Toronto Police officers are marking time, they cannot even card anybody and are under constant watch by the media and special interest groups.
What the public must realize is that Police officers can respond to calls after the violence and take reports and be safe Or they can be pro active and stop that violence in the first place.But they will not be pro active because they are not getting the support from Politicians,the Courts or the media.This is not a new phenomena its been ongoing for over 35 years, only now are the public seeing the crack cocaine addicts,gang shootings,spilling over into their other neighborhoods.
I agree....but it’s not just a Toronto thing. Your last paragraph describes de-policing. It’s showing up across the country. Due to all the government rules and regulations, there is virtually no pro-active policing today. What you described as part of your duties in the Projects, is now illegal.....go figure ! The criminals know this and take advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
Manpower cuts, government policies being handed down to the police, social work, etc, etc, leaves little room or time for pro-active initiatives.
Society’s responsibilities have increasingly been handed down to the police, because they are the only social program thats open and available 24-7. In our local service, there are no fewer than 10 frontline officers that have been diverted to other non-policing duties, likely more now. In TO, I’d imagine the numbers are in the hundreds.
Just the “carding” issue alone has reduced police interactions with the criminal element. If an officer sees someone in your neighbourhood in the wee hours of the morning carrying a TV, he/she can’t even question the individual without telling him/her that they do not have to talk to the police, and here’s how to make a complaint if they are questioned!!!
The police have been handcuffed continually. What you see now is de-policing.
To blame LEO is totally wrong. There is absolutely no support for LEO out there now. No wonder they use the FIDO principal. Police chiefs across the province voiced concerns about curtailing carding, TAVIS, and all other pro-active measures....at least those with stones big enough to disagree with the government. Most predicted the uptick in crime and violence we are seeing today!
“Yep”
But rather than ask the hard questions, (any old school cop will say the turning point was about 20 years), cast a less than favourable light on themselves, failing measures, horrific allocation of resources, “what ever”.
Smoke screens, distractions (straw men) etc etc. Calls for more regulations, more gC, more of anything
But hard, honest, examinations of policing “today” and what it will take to make a difference, and curb the rise they all scream about. But won’t do anything about.
This would be true if gun-free zones were created to prevent mass shootings. But that's not the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoR
Gun-free zones exist to reduce property owner liability and to reduce incidents involving casual gun-carrying. Bring a weapon to work, and you will likely get into trouble not because your employer is trying to prevent random mass murders but because your employer doesn't want a workplace environment where an armed employee having a bad day injures someone.
Everyone knows you can't stop a crime by putting up a sign. Nobody's attempting to do that.
Except that they aren't. In the US, far more people are killed outside gun-free zones than are killed within them. One reason is that a large number of homicides happen in the home.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
This is a moot point anyway. Council is not making Toronto a gun-free zone. Public spaces in Toronto are already gun-free zones, because you can't carry a handgun around in Canada.
No one is arguing why they were created. Maybe I’m wrong, but I thought this thread was about the chatter and bans.
Thanks for agreeing that they are not by definition effective as it pertains to this thread, discussion, topic... nor are signs....or are we changing the discussion and debtate to why they were created????
His point was two fold.
We have the American experience to draw on. Where yes, some public spaces people can in fact carry, concealed or open...unlike CDA. . That hasn’t stopped the shooting in “gun free zones”. Be they schools, night clubs or movie theatre. Which while it’s off topic have not all been created to create safe “work places, public spaces.
And secondly that they are magnets. Are they? Don’t know, don’t care.
Well, when you say something is ineffective, you are saying it hasn't achieved its purpose. So its purpose is then relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoR
In any case, gun free zones have nothing to do with it. Shootings happen everywhere.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
This thread is about politians (and others occasionally) in TO calling for bans.. And going so far as to make it “official”
So statements, arguments whichever, by anyone. Hopefully relate to that....And hopefully we can all agree banning them, will be ineffective.
And as for Goodale, chiefs, RCMP etc. Well if his/their only concern about it is the anticipated cost...and not the fact it will be ineffective.
Says all that needs to be said. On that “aspect” of the topic.
Other aspects hopefully deal with.
What is the problem
What can be done that combats the problem. Not legal owners, not symptoms (straw men being enticed or co-oerced by criminals gangs /greed) or other
The problem.
Well, that's the real question. The root cause problem is the black market in drugs.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
Yep.
Which begs questions demanding answers.
Don’t have time to root through stats, do superficial (at best, the best any of us can do) comparitive analysis look for positive or negative correlations.
So.
At a “glance” meaning off the top of my head. Violent crime has been trending down for a long time. That speaks to social change. Yet, organized crime, gang related shootings (whether direct or indirect) worse.
No doubt, some of the relates to pop growth/density, demographic, socioeconomic things....
The simple, face value test is.
Violent crime down/gang related activity/shootings up.
Says to me once again Leo, intelligence, border services, Justice system. All not doing their jobs...
Sometime in the late 80s, experts were warning organized gangs were on their way here. The crips, the bloods, the Russians, more
But back then, cops were cops, and chiefs were cops. Today, career politicians like Blair and Goodale.
I know many here hate the registry. I think it was ineffective and a waste.
Today between cyber crime, money laundering, terrorist financing, identity theft and more. It can be a tool cops need. Me, I just highly and severely doubt their motives for it.see Goodales response about the cost.
Ever the politician. I’m sure he felt safe in saying what he thought the masses would want to hear. They are good politicians who care suddenly about cost...
L.....M.....A.....O
Let alone not a sound byte about how ineffective it would be...........
I don’t mind and largely support retailers recording transactions. For Christ sakes
There are reasons we can’t open bank accounts without 3 peices of ID. Often face to face meetings, passports, and more........depending on specifics. It takes more, is recorded more and monitored more..than buying guns from retailers...
Won’t help much when someone says. Yes I bought that rifle, sold it to joe blow with a pal. What he did with it. Not my problem. My hands are clean. But will help with bulk buyers...
Regardless, it all comes back on the failings of Leo and not getting serious and going after gangs....
My memoirs are fuzzy but how did they clean up NY back in the 80s/90s.
By targeting citizens, little fish?
There is more to just cops doing their jobs, we have to get after the judges to hit these criminals with the stiffest, harshest sentences available to them .
It seems that criminals with guns just laugh at the spanking on the wrist sentences handed by our weak wristed judges.:angry:
Harper tried. Brought in mandatory sentences for gun crimes. Judges refused to enforce them. Liberal Azzz kissing judges who don't enforce the law should be jailed.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
"[COLOR=#000000]because you can't carry a handgun around in Canada." I though that was so as well, but the way the legislation actually reads, you may not carry a restricted firearm around. However, the chief C.O. affirmed you can hunt small game, with antique handguns, since none of the 3 firearm classification apply to them. I can't imagine the number of certifiable antique handguns will make their way across the line given that bit of information.
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
Be that as it may, you won't be carrying an antique handgun around in Toronto.
Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
What would be the point, there are so many restricted handguns being carried around Toronto, it almost renders the idea of handguns being restricted as ridicules.
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
If Doug Ford was Prime Minister, he would fire these judges for not doing their jobs an replace them with new ones that would enforce the laws.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
A PM who attempted to fire the Supreme Court for striking down his government's laws would be violating fundamental principles of our democracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
They have been violated in so many ways up to now, by the Lieberals, whats one more violation !Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
The present judges are already in violation by not enforcing the laws as enacted by the gov.
We do have a Prime Minister who regularly shows disregard for laws and firmly believes he is above the law..
Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
Round and round she goes. The media does what it does. Sensationalized everything, rhetoric and hyperbole, mass hysteria sells. Statistics and trends to the contrary be damned.
Proof?
Look at this one? It’s common knowledge the gun was bought illegally. I’ve read 20-50 articles, many about bans. One today in the NP (right wing) explaining to the gullible and unknowlegeable that not all guns are equal. And that higher caliber rounds result in more fatalities. Seriously? Wtf? Is that how just ignorant the masses are?
Not one article, not one ( though plenty mention Saunders/Goodale deflections, about “domestic” sources)...
No one says booo jack, about the commonality and gangs, and why arent they going after them...
Antis want bans, more and more regulations. More of the public becomes swayed. Politicians, either due to ideology or first and foremost the desire for votes, play to the howls and feed want they think the populace wants to hear....
Police chiefs, many new school cops, who aren’t exactly gun knowledgeable, or proficient themselves, want the spot light on anything but their own short comings fighting crime.
Gun owners, increasingly become entrenched, ying and yang, Newton’s law. Cause/effect.
Fast forward roughly 20 years (we tend to follow the US in trends by a generation. We will be where the US is. Polarized, the NRA and lobbies, the left, antis and lobbies. Until a couple million kids, decide adults don’t know how to adult anymore...and...
Like it or not. We do have a problem. Solutions that haven’t been tried other than getting the law enforcement agencies (including the justice system, lawyers to stop plea bargaining with bangers) changes to the revolving door justice system etc?
Adding the 100 police Toronto is proposing in theory should help but let's not kid ourselves. Police presence has some effect as a deterrent. But until the judiciary respect and enforce the letter of the law and convict and impose real sentences the gangs will just laugh and continue doing what they do. Not many of these cases will ever be heard by the SCC so it's a Federal/Provincial issue. As long as we have Trudough in office it will likely get worse for law abiding gun owners and better for criminals. This is the new normal.
Fully agree with your sentiments,enforcement will work as it did in New York,but everybody has to be on board from the Mayor to the PM to the Courts.Good luck with this happening in present day Canada.There are simply to many citizens uneducated about how much the law abiding citizen has to go through to get a firearms.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoR
One good proposal is for Doctors to flag mentally ill persons who might apply for a license,although in practice not sure how it would work.This Danforth shooter was clearly mentally ill but used a gun illegally acquired.
I think we still need to account to somebody for the number of long guns a person has as its to easy for straw purchasers to be supplying the illegal market with legally acquired firearms and Wendy Cukier is always happy to point this out in media spots because long guns are still being used in domestic murders.
I agree it should be nobody,s business how many long guns we have in our collections as the majority of us are law abiding and don,t purposely supply the criminal element, but what about the people who do?The easy answer is charge them, prosecute these straw providers,but exactly how do you do that,when you cannot trace back the guns.
Read it and weep.
https://postmedia.us.janrainsso.com/...to-a-new-study
Retailer are a start Gilroy.
I am not a well cars kill more. Think that a redicilous argument.
However, impaired driving?
Kill 10, yes ten times more people and breaks infinitely more bodies ( crash survivors) than guns. Let alone all the other I’ll effects from alcoholism, addition, spousal/child abuse, alcohol fueled crime such as rape, assualt, and more
Yet no-one screams “ban booze”...and it wasn’t until the various agencies got serious about it, started throwing the book at people, that things started to change. That said, despite significant change. It still kill 2000-3000 per year. To the 200 guns do. And little different than an irresponsible gun owner pointing a loaded gun down a street....
Kookier, is kookier and bat Shyte crazy. She’s made a life for herself, she will never change.
Nor will the “nra”...just as much a part of the problem, as her, “liberals”, and “Leo” ( broadstroke for all the agencies/arms)...
Funny, cops somehow seem to know who every dime bag dealer is, are able to find and bust casual users for growing 6 plants in the Back yards ( I know a family that was busted for that).
But round up the bangers and bikers and Russians selling the guns.....
?
Unfortunately people see a need for cars in order to commute. What you have to provide people with is reasons for needing a firearm. If you don’t hunt, and you have not interest in recreational shooting. Why have a gun?Quote:
Originally Posted by LoR
You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
Some have them because they are collectors, just as some collect " butterflies ",Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
A fellow I have known for years, has quite a collection of firearms both handguns and long guns, and prohibited, but has absolutely no interest in hunting or recreational shooting, It's just a hobby of his.
In fact, a sizeable number of opinion pieces, and a number of explainers, have suggested that a handgun ban will have little practical effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoR
The media are not a monolithic block.
Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
Not cars and car accidents Gun Nut. Drunk Driving.
What purpose does booze serve. Absolutely none, in reality even less than guns, because guns do have purposes. Like hunting.
Point there is. No-body other than during the roaring 20s think we should ban booze. Despite the fact it
Kills 10x more
Maims 10-20-50? X more
And that just Impaired driving. Alcoholism, spousal/child abuse, and far more. Guns have nothing on booze....
And instead, we brought in measures to combat that specific crime, that specific problem.
Welsh, are you suggesting the media doesn’t do those things? On any topic????
While there might be the odd article, op-ed that points out it would be inneftive. Those few are lost in the noise...drowned out..
That’s not though what I said, was taking about. I said if I’ve read 50 peices, many (note I didn’t say all, I said many)
I haven’t seen ONE that suggest it’s past time they crack down on the
The problem.
but that would critical of Leo, wouldn’t it?
Obviously the media sometimes sensationalize things. But let's be careful with what we mean by that.
Reporting a major news story as a major news story is not sensationalizing. Neither is publishing an opinion column you disagree with.
Reporting on this story has not been particularly sensational, with the exception of a few outlets trying to play up a terrorist angle.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
To each their own Welsh.
It’s now been a week, and they are still “reporting” on it. Milking it...
Whether that’s articles with a slant and hyperbole toward bans and GC, as previously mentioned. Many have referenced the current 4 year trend, and uptick in “domestic” sources, and subtle hints about “since Harper”.... despite the fact the current trend is below the 13-20 year average, and certainly way below the average say 2003-2010...
speculation about his ties, Op-Ed’s about mass shootings, types of firearms, or even calibers. :) Continue...
Straight up question you don’t have to answer, but maybe think about for your next piece. Instead of typical gun culture stuff, or gun laws (the good and bad). Shine more light on the problem, and those who aren’t doing a good enough job.
I will say I stand corrected.
There is now one, finally.......that’s putting just a wee bit of the spotlight on those whose job it is. And their failigs
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...box=1532908900
They're still reporting it because it's still a news story.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
It’s a week old.
When was the last time, a drunk took out a family of 4, it went for a week like these things do...not even sure the guy that plowed into pedestrians just weeks ago got this much, or this kind of “crap”...reporting
And the btw that wasn’t a criticism but a suggestion. You amongst most “writers/journalist” do know firearms regulation, various statistics, both here and south..do know how to dig into stats, trends, .do have a good grasp of what specifically is our problem...(gangs)
Do seem to understand they are the problem and that Leo isn’t doing their jobs..
Coverage of the van attack persisted well over a week.
The attack occurred in late April, and articles connected to the attack continued to appear in early June. Also, it received broader coverage, including editorial page pieces in the NYT and a related feature in The New Yorker in mid May.
If you're not sure if it got as much attention, it's because you're not looking.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
I see that like the gun debate, same old tired same old and some things never change.
I’ve had to correct you twice now on what I said, etc. including a direct misquote where you somehow mistook “many” to mean a, “monolithic block”. How’s that for hyperbole...and inability to read....
And you will still pick the We bones, semantics and more to prove your intellectual superiority.
:)
Maybe it’s time to change, and try something new. Not unlike guns
I’m out.
Your right Welsh, always are
They are milking this, no surprise. Now seeing stories on emergency room staff, Leo, firemen all responders. Don't get me wrong these are all great people who make a difference but how often does media put the surgeons on front pages of papers. The biased media will wring everything out of this horrible tragedy. Adding more well paid cops won't help if when they do arrest criminals the judges turn them loose. They then return to the taxpayer subsidized ghettos and keep doing the same. It's time to get very tough and jail them. That means judges willing to do it. Building basketball courts won't change this demographic. This time it was 2 pretty white girls. If 2 young gang members had died I don't think they would have stories on emergency room staff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Okay, so I missed mention gun collecting as a reason for owning a guns. Unfortunately there are so many other collectibles for the hobbyist, it still does off a substantive reason for running out and purchasing firearm. So besides hunting, recreational shooting and gun collecting is out their that the multitude of exurbanites should want or need a firearm. Yes, it seems there will always be the DUI, but that does really take anything away from the importance of the car as a greater necessity for individual than a gun it seems would ever be. So what other good reasons would necessitate more people seeing a need for owing firearms. Unfortunately for the most part our government has taken the idea of using firearms for protection of self and property, off the table, something those south of the line see as a real necessity for arming themselves. But we wouldn’t like to be like them. After all, to quote a well known source “ We Canadians aren’t like that.”
You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
getting tougher on gun sales is easy to do with a stroke of a pen...getting tough on gangs and eliminating them would take more than a four year term for a politician. it would also bring up race, welfare and immigration issues which no politicians would ever go near. So gone are the guns for all....but the gangs.
What, are no gangs made up of those born and bred here? :scream: When they are born here, (many 3rd, 4th generations), immigration discussions are redundant. If they are Canadian , they are 'us' , therefore we cannot blame it on 'others'.... Fix the root problems, no one (race), is born 'bad'.:sad:
The politicians and cops know that it is easier to go after legal citizens than the criminals/gangs as they only laugh at the laws and don't give a damn.Quote:
Originally Posted by zoli 16ga.
The federal government won't be doing anything new before the next election.
It will be interesting to see if the Liberals feel handguns are a wedge issue they can use to beat up Scheer.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
Who's Scheer???Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
I fully expect them to introduce an Aussie type model. And I bet they can win an election with it.
G, stats are a funny thing, that anyone can spin, twist, cherry pick to suit their agenda etc.
Eg.
Race crime stats are a no-no
Race victim stats, well we like those.
There’s something about the stats commonly referred to that “bothers” me, but I can’t put my finger on it. Likely because I can’t be bothered to spend the time rooting through things for clarity.
The left, the RCMP, the fear mongers, journalist ( I use that term with much sarcasm, because actual journalist are few in number. Most are hacks with agenda's that cherry pick, twist, tell half truths, and disregard anything that doesn't fit their narrative these days)..., GC control advocates etc.
Keep referring to “domestically sourced”. And they keep harping on “50” percent.
Well that’s opinion (interpretation of data), more accurately supposition for starters, because in fact it’s only 14%. And it’s only 14% because, they can only trace 28% of “guns” ( which does include air guns and possibly replicas”
The other 72% are source unknown...........
Then to.
Guns crimes, include everything. In short if a gun is in some shape or form part of a crime it’s captured in the stats. If I waive a replica at you (pointing a weapon) it could very well be captured.
But why would a weapon that’s “a gun crime weapon” be untraceable?
Two main reasons I’m thinking.
1:Serial # filed off
2:The originating source doesn’t record them.
Take a hand gun.
Well if a gang banger files off the serial #....
1) where’d it come from?
2) what good is the registry?
Then to, what types of "crimes" and weapons would people be unlikely to file off serial numbers, seek to buy or acquire untraceable weapons....Domestic crimes? Long guns........????
Gee, lets pad that 14% shall we
Spin spin spin spin spin.
All depends on ones interest in the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Most everyone, from the cops, to Tory to Goodale, know that Toronto’s problem is gangs. They even acknowledge that 90% of “gun crimes”....are gang related...
Spinning wheels
Reality is, a large proportion of crime guns that are not traced are ... long guns.
The police don't bother tracing long guns. And they are almost exclusively domestically sourced.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
https://nfa.ca/wp-content/uploads/20...om-Police2.pdf
RCMP ACCESS TO INFORMATION RESPONSE
428 FIREARMS LOST BY AND STOLEN FROM THE POLICE AND OTHER PUBLIC AGENCIES
RCMP ATI RESPONSE DATED: SEPTEMBER 14, 2011 RCMP FILE #: GA-3951-3-04075/11 RECEIVED SEPTEMBER 21, 2011
WORDING OF ORIGINAL ATI REQUEST SUBMITTED TO RCMP (July 10, 2011):
Please provide the most recent copies of existing reports that show the total number and types of firearms (prohibited, restricted, non-restricted) that were:
(1) lost by, missing and stolen from the RCMP;
(2) lost by, missing and stolen from other police forces;
(3) lost by, missing and stolen from other public service agencies; and (4) lost by, missing and stolen from the military.
FIREARMS LOST BY AND STOLEN FROM THE RCMP = 32
Shotgun = 9 Rifle = 4 Handgun = 18 Other = 1
FIREARMS LOST BY AND STOLEN STOLEN FROM OTHER POLICE SERVICES = 316
CN Police – Handgun = Information blacked out RNC – Handgun = Information blacked out OPP – Rifle = Information blacked out
OPP – Rifle = Information blacked out
OPP – Handgun = Information blacked out
Surete du Quebec – Handgun = Information blacked out Aboriginal Police – Rifle = 11
Aboriginal Police – Shotgun = 2
Aboriginal Police – Handgun = 3
Municipal – Shotgun = 3
Municipal – Handgun = 267
DENNIS R. YOUNG’S COMMENT: By subtracting the number of guns reported above as stolen (286) from the total (316) means that thirty(30) firearms were stolen from the OPP, Surete du Quebec, RNC and the CN Police.
RCMP EXPLAINS BLACKED OUT INFORMATION: Please note that some of the information has been exempted under Paragraphs 13(1)(c) and (d) of the Access to Information Act. Section 13(1) reads: Subject to subsection (2), the head of a government institution shall refuse to disclose any record requested under this Act that contains information that was obtained in confidence from (c) the government of a province or an institution thereof; or (d) a municipal or regional government established by or pursuant to an Act of the legislature of a province or and institution of such a government.
FIREARMS LOST BY AND STOLEN FROM OTHER PUBLIC SERVICE AGENCIES = 80
Shotgun = 22 Handgun = 41 Rifle = 17
FIREARMS LOST BY AND STOLEN FROM THE MILITARY = NOT AVAILABLE
RCMP EXPLANATION: Please note that in response to your question 4), the Canadian Firearms Program does not track military firearms as they are exempt from the regulations.
RCMP CLARIFICATION OF THE NUMBER OF GUNS STOLEN FROM POLICE: Please also note that these numbers are all firearms that have been recorded in the CFRS as lost, missing or stolen at one point in time. This means, these numbers include firearms that may no longer be lost or stolen.
1) police don’t trace long guns
2) you have a crystal ball that allows you to categorically state they are domestic?
What’s your source?
**********
Be that as it may, which is neither here nor there.
Gun crime is something of a loose criteria. A person could be forgiven for assuming that the types of gun crimes the overwhelming majority of tax payers are concerned about are
Violent crimes in conjunction with firearms.
And the fact you can’t dance around that has nothing to do with gun cultures. Is that the majority of those are committed by
Hand guns......
which further......
which was was the point.
So of the 28% anyone can conclusively say came from A or B. And of the 14% that are known, to be from domestic sources......
And the vast majority of tax payers far more worried about armed robberies, murders, blood on the streets, and not guns found in the woods ( counted as gun crime)
......etc
Gord, if your inclined check the MTPS shooting map. It’s interesting. Some might spin that into a race debate, other like myself a debate about socioeconomic factors instead
Publicly available police reports.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoR
This is an open forum. If you want to have a private conversation, take it to PM.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoR
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
………………….
G, check the map. Some have trouble with this and that.
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/cont...prise-you.html
*Almost* exclusively, I said. While you're whinging about being quoted accurately.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoR
Nobody in the real world disputes that. I'm not going to argue the point, any more than I'd debate the Flat Earth Society.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
JB you are right about the many factors that cause someone to shoot a gun at another human being. I just don't think it is more prevalent in any particular race. It is circumstance, environment not heredity. Most members of gangs in Canada were born here, it is not an immigration problem, they are Canadian kids. Many people use the immigration argument to say,....... it's not us, it's them.
Agree 100% no more excuses about being disadvantaged as 1st generation,they are into 3 and 4th so essentially Canadians.Maybe we cut to much slack for them which older generations did not get Italians,Portuguese,and way back to Irish ,Scots.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Welsh,Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
I think you are very well read on this gun subject and you have your opinions based on your experience BUT have you ever been in an Ontario Housing Complex,lets say Jane and Finch area,Jamestown Cres,St Jamestown,Mosspark.Regent Park.
LoR, Fishermccann, and myself and probably a few others on here have actually spent years in these projects,we know the criminal mentality and the hardships that decent people face who have to live in these area,s.I really think a walking tour of Dundas Street and Sherbourne Street area would do you a World of good to widen the scope of your experience.Down there is the REAL WORLD the question is , have you ever been down in the real world?
Care to explain how that relates to the point I made, which was concerned entirely with how police record statistics re tracing of crime guns?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
Are the people in said housing complexes involved in the tracing activity? Or are they involved only in compiling the statistics? To what extent does the criminal mentality of gangbangers influence this?
Seriously. Do explain. I'll wait.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
Wee bone Welsh. Translation “not worth arguing over”
Suppose when it’s you, and your comments being picked over......what’s good for the goose as they say..see also your reply to Gilroy...
Might want to keep that in mind when you do it.....which is all to often...
“Just saying”
Re projects.
I wonder if this can be discussed without race getting out of hand.
Race based stats are a no-no. Yet most will agree certain areas are bad. We also tend to categorize gangs by ethnicity be they “Russian”, be they “Somali”, be they that new one from SA everyone is concerned about...
but actual stats?
dont go there.
How do these events, the compilation of stats, the shootings, the crime, affect people in these area’s?
See pardon the pun.
Carding.
The entire point of your post 99 was to dispute the statistics.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoR
Not sure how my pointing out that you missed a key point -- a point to which you devoted half that post to inaccurate speculation on -- is somehow a "wee bone."
But okay. You do you.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
..... well what's too worry about... they seem to only want to go after "sniper", "assault" and handguns right now....
I mean look at this article and that horrible sniper rifle...
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...-metres-police
of course the media will help in the misconceptions and votes for the Liberals...
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/cont...-violence.html
Ban sniper rifles and assault weapons. Under the current legislation, the Ruger Mini 14 used to kill 14 women in the Montreal Massacre of 1989 would still be legal to buy in Canada. So are the types of sniper rifles used by our military in Afghanistan. What possible use can they have in a civil society? Ban them.
For example the C3A1 was used in Afghanistan .....
https://captainstevens.com/military/...-sniper-rifle/
I mean.... other than ... well ME ..... what person in Canada would want either of those two horrible sniper rifles.... that being said if you have any that are in real good condition I am sure myself and others would be willing to offer..... $10 for those horrible killing weapons right now
P.S. Same $10 offer applies to older sniper rifles manufactured.... oh any time, Enfields, Mausers, Springfields, Mosins, Sharpes, Kentucky ...... $20 if they have a good scope or are a Pennsylvania Rifle... or a lever like the first one.. Henry, BLR, 99... maybe a bit more. :moose::moose:
Tracing of the guns is not helping the issue of gun violence, its simply a red herring.Canadians pretty well know that shootings in Toronto and other parts of Canada are carried out by gang members,criminal underworld,and the politicians,judges, do not appear to want to tackle the issue.Mr Tory can wring his hands all he wants but a "gun ban" is simply talk and a none starter.Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
I know you are very good at throwing round statistics to try and prove some point you are making but what I don,t see you doing is suggesting concrete solutions.
You probably will not have any because I do not think you know what or who they are or how to deal with them.IMHO
………………………….
Hmm, looks like I'll have to restock the popcorn supply.
A lively debate , never hurt any subject.
JB ,what stats are you referring to? All of them, I assume. I agree that we know who responsible for the gun violence, I am saying that no race has a predisposition to violence, it is not in anyone's DNA, but that there are more mitigating factors that that.
You're hilarious.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoR
Also, you're the one who resorts, once again, to slinging insults.
Well, I do like a challenge...Quote:
Originally Posted by LoR
... but you really aren't providing one.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoR
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
…………………………………..
Well Fishermccan, Just what exactly do you see as the root problems? I always find when individual attempt to establish what the root problems are they merely end up chipping away at the edges. For example John Tory sees the root problem to be, that there are too many handguns in Toronto. His fix is to have something done to reduce the number of handguns. I might suggest to John Tory that Toronto’s root problem is it has too many people within its confinements. As a consequence, it has reached a point where they are getting unto one another nerves. So what do you suppose is an easier fix, get rid of handguns or tackling an overpopulation crisis.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Ethnic differences equally play a role. I found it interesting to learn that when Europeans came to the Americas. A Papal Bull was issued to proclaim that the indigenous people of Americas, were little more than heathen savages unworthy of having any claim to so rich a land. They would not adopt the European ideas of progress and industry. In fact being hunter gathers they thought the European were crazy working their backsides off to clear the land for agriculture in order to amass wealth. They hunted and fish to put food on the fire and used the hides of animals to build lodges. In them they could rest until there was a need to once again hunt. They would not be assimilated and overtime they were pushed into the back water and placed on reservation. Their pristine wilderness gave way Toronto and other concrete jungles. The root of their problems was a relentless European migration and population expansion. When are we going to come to the realization that the cup is full to overflowing ?
You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
Let's be honest: we can't arrest our way out of this. That's nothing but an endless game of whack-a-mole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
There is no single solution. Neither is this a local problem that can be clearly understood by walking a beat in Regent Park. This is a complex, international problem. The root cause here is drug prohibition. But gangs will continue to exist regardless of drug policy, as long as there are black markets to trade in.
I'm not going to claim I have the answers. We've been struggling with this for 50 years. It takes a real ego to walk in and declare one knows the solution.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
"THE CANADIAN PRESS - Gun violence a 'significant concern': Blair
In the wake of a deadly shooting in Toronto last month, Toronto city council passed a motion urging the federal government allow the city to forbid the sale of handguns in the city and for the province to outlaw the sale of handgun ammunition within city limits."
It is called one dimensional thinking. It will prove to be an inconvenience for law abiding individuals who will have to go elsewhere to buy their firearms and ammunition. However, the underground marketeers will not be affected, in fact it might even encourage the marketeers to further expand their operation, as legal distribution is eliminated. It was this type of thinking which was set in motion by the Firearm Act, that in the late 90's, lead to the closures of a number of legal firearm distributors, and opened the door for the underground marketeers to move into Toronto and create the current problem. I hate to say it, but back then, the gun lobby pointed out that this could be a likely outcome.
You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
[Premier Doug Ford opposes ban on handgun sales in Toronto - torontostar.com
Premier Doug Ford says he is against a council-requested ban on the sale of handguns and their ammunition within Toronto’s boundaries.
“I wouldn’t support a ban on handguns,” Ford said Thursday. “There’s a lot of legal, responsible handgun owners.”
“We have to refocus all our resources going after the bad guys, not the good guys.”]
There is nothing dumb-a** about this guy he see the situation for what it is. To bad those other brainless wonders can’t see things with the same clarity. Going after the good guys won’t solve their dilemma.
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
Yep,he got my attention with that. Points simply put completely confounds Liberal gun grabbers when they're undisputable. That comment was right up there with my favorite---"Blaming guns for crime is like blaming forks because you're fat."Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
Welsh,Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
I can assure you that you can arrest your way out of this situation but the weak link is Judges granting immediate bail to repeat and none repeat offenders.
The big problem in Toronto is that the police do not know who to arrest, everybody is driving around housing projects and not walking in them.I know times have changed,the bad guys use technology to their advantage and operate different from 15 years ago BUT career criminals are just like anyone else,they have to sleep some where,drive some sort of car,visit certain people and so forth,this is not rocket science.You need boots on the ground,invested over a LONG time and with the right type of officers.An officer cannot be in a 1 square mile housing complex 10 hours a day, 5 days a week and not get to know SOMETHING.The police management have to ORDER this type of detail and should get results.Even if its prevention of a shooting,that is a result,its measurable.If your locked up for 4 years for using a handgun in the commission of an indictable offence,your not able to shoot anyone for at least 4 years.You also probably will be inclined not to carry if/when you get out.
While I agree that boots on the ground are much better than cops driving through in cruisers, arresting our way out of it hasn't worked in other cities.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
TODAY'S QUESTION (Today’s August 10th, CTV News Question)
Which is a better strategy to fight gun crime?
Handgun ban
2159 (34 %)
Boost law enforcement
4237 (66 %)
Total number of votes: 6396
The scary thing about the responds is that 1/3 of those answering see the availability of guns as a bigger problem, than a failure of law enforcement to have the resources necessary to adequately deal with bad guys, committing gun crimes. I suppose if I was a bad guy, it would make good sense to vote for a Handgun ban, that way there might be fewer handguns out there to worry about as I carry on business as usual. Go figure!
You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut.
Handgun bans target law abiding citizens. Might as well ban alcohol as it wrecks lives and kills more people every year. I mean, this is about saving lives not anti gun ideology right...........right.
26% of Canadians own guns according to reports, ( I question that stat), that is 3rd most in the world behind the USA, and Norway. Well, 80% of Canadians drink alcohol. In a democracy, the majority of the people are supposed to get what they want. ie. pot laws. If enough fellow citizens get together, and decide they do not like what you are doing, they can vote that you no longer can do it. Sucks but that is how we roll.
Wisely.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
2.1 million licences (rounding up) in a population of 35 million. Adult population is ~27 million. So more like 8% of Canadian adults, unless we assume there's an awful lot of unlicensed owners out there!
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
Ya I thought it was out of wack as well, they said there were over 7 million guns in Canada, to get that % ,gun owners would only have 1 each. My gang and most guys that I have hunted with, have a dozen guns each.
Doesn’t the criminal element make up something like 10 to 20% of the population? Using a figure of 15% that could mean about 4 million unlicenced firearm owners, with at least one gun each. The one trafficker they reported catching had something in the order of 377 handguns. To say they have no idea of the number of firearms they are dealing with, is to putting it mildly.
You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
The best quote from a politician I've heard in years- "You don't catch the bad guys by going after the good guys." Thanks for that Premier Ford. Go Ford Nation!:thumbup:
Good one.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Except that most people who do crimes don't use guns, and probably never have guns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
About 10% (3.8 million) of Canadians have criminal records. Most people who have criminal records have records for minor crimes.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
There is a distinction between crimes, and gun crimes, (someone will pull up the figures), that will tell you all you need to know. Most criminals do not use guns. Do you think that there should be laws , or, some how ,some way, to prevent someone from having 377 guns?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Did you ever see the brochure Epps puts out, his inventory makes this bust looks like small potatoes. This guy was trafficking in guns this was his inventory, he wasn't legally licensed to sell firearms,nor the drugs he was caught with. Why on earth if you are a legal collector would you want or need some banal legislation to limit the extent of your collection? As for this collection of firearms, there are already laws in place to prevent the accumulation illegal firearms. What is lacking is the means to ferret them out. These guns were discovered when the police attended a drug bust. A firefighter answering a fire alarm notice some unusual dust on the floor and reported it to the police.
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
The trafficker in question did not have 337 handguns.
He had 33 new-in-box Glocks, along with a large quantity of narcotics, which resulted in 337 charges.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
[QUOTE=welsh;1065619]Except that most people who do crimes don't use guns, and probably never have guns.
About 10% (3.8 million) of Canadians have criminal records. Most people who have criminal records have records for minor crimes.
Not where I worked the criminal records were several pages long and full of heavy duty crimes.Even so called "minor crimes" like drug addicts breaking into vehicles,I have seen records exceeding 100 theft and possession convictions.It might seem minor but imagine the number of vehicles broken into and insurance claims and bother faced by the victims.You park in a downtown lot,your window gets punted in and away goes your lap top with all your business in it.I took a repeat offender around one night to 10 parking lots where he has broke into 72 vehicles over the course of a month.
Little bit off topic but here are no minor crimes if your the victim.
Right! I must have skim over the article too fast, thanks for correcting me. 33 guns and 42 kilos of carfentanil, a friend of the brother of the guy who did the Danforth shootings. He was out on bail when the shootings happen. Did they ever actually determine where the shooter got the gun and ammunition he used?Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
Not confirmed yet, to my knowledge.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
Who cares, one smuggler, poof he has that number of handguns etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
What I care about is why they had " 42 kilos of carfentanil"? Where they got it? What was the purpose? Is there more? Who has it?
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...to-police-say/
"Court documents reveal his older brother Fahad (who is now in a coma) previously lived at a home in Pickering, Ont., just east of Toronto, where 33 guns and 42 kilograms of carfentanil, a lethal opioid, were seized last fall."
https://globalnews.ca/news/2939935/w...ses-in-the-us/
"@RCMPAlberta say 20 micrograms of #carfentanil can be fatal, which = less than grain of salt pic.twitter.com/OX5VaD6jwn"
https://globalnews.ca/news/2873243/r...than-fentanyl/
SO ... if 28 kg was estimated at $3,200,000 so doing the math .... $4,800,000 worth of drugs... assuming a similar purity etc.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4002739/e...-from-1-house/
That is also enough to kill basically 2/3 the population of Canada.
They had 42 kg of cut carfentanil ready for street distribution, not 42 kg of pure carfentanil. The actual quantity of pure carfentanil was grams, not kilograms.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
How do they even mix that crap without killing themselves? Police officers just need to touch one grain of the stuff,ingest it through their skin and if it doesn't kill them outright,they'll land in the hospital for over a week. 42kg.'s of that stuff would be weapons of mass destruction quantity while 42 grams can still kill a lot of people. If,down the road,we find the government has lied to us over this,there'll be no place safe for the Liberals to hide.Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
Well ... just move the decimal over .... instead it is 21,000.... or the equivalent of the township of WilmotQuote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
https://www.wilmot.ca/en/living-here...ty-Profile.pdf
or the town of Amherstburg
https://www.amherstburg.ca/en/do-bus...y-of-Life.aspx
.. and it is still probably in the millions of dollars based on the previous link
Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
Welsh, what would it look like after this guy made bail, if he was the one who furnished the handgun for the Danforth shooting. Meanwhile the police are intentionally keeping a lid on that fact? The guy appears to have some type of a well establish conduit, in order to have amass his sizeable arsenal and his stash of such a potent drug. Meanwhile, the Danforth gun may have been somewhere in his conduit as he was making bail, and he simply past it over to the shooter, and convinced him, society was to blame for his brother’s condition and he should seek some sort of revenge. Again, with ISIS eventually claiming responsible, may be there was something more sinister a foot but it got foiled by the police raid. How about that for a conspiracy theory?
You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
Here we go...
Liberals to look at 'full ban' on handguns, assault weapons
Bill Blair, minister of border security and organized crime reduction, will lead gun control review
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/lib...ears-1.4801700
Think they will include "sniper" rifles ..... assault rifle equivalents (Semi auto) ....... ???
I suspect he won't get a ban through before the next election, but if re-elected I will guarantee the Liberals will ban all; military style guns and all handguns with no buy back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosquito
I agree. Likely won't campaign on it as it would be very risky out West. Even if most don't own handguns it will be seen as the beginning of the end of legal firearms ownership. If the imbecil gets reelected with a majority we're done.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Too bad they can't get it through their skulls that all guns are already banned in Canada.
Nothing new here. The Libs already said, several times, that they would look at a ban. All this does is hand the hot potato to Blair.
There will be no ban before the 2019 election. They will need to examine what they can do, then analyze the existing law and draft a new bill, then get the bill through parliament ... this is not going to be done by next fall.
Re all the catastrophizing, read between the lines. The Liberals have been pragmatic and slow to move on gun control; the bill they introduced minimally covered their election promises; they promised to look at a handgun ban in terms of "effectiveness and fairness"; and they handed the mandate to the minister responsible for organized crime, not the public safety minister.
Blair himself is on record saying he is unsure what can really be done about guns on the supply side (i.e. control). He hasn't said anything in years suggesting he thinks a ban is practical.
I've been told that the Liberals are focused on handguns and are not considering long gun measures. They are also looking for measures short of a full ban, with an emphasis on effectiveness.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
he won't need to campaign on it, he will claim he has a mandate because he had mentioned it in the past.
I was thinking of buying a 9mm for my son but I have pretty much decided not to because by the time he is 18 they will be banned. Will get by with the 22 pistol I guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
With ~80% support for a handgun ban and Scheer on record wanting to roll back gun control, the Libs would be brain dead not to campaign on whatever they decide to do.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
I disagree, I think the Liberals are still leery of the the firearm community. They won't campaign on it very hard if at all, but they will later claim they still had a mandate. Scheer could state he is going to go strongly after gang bangers and anyone who use a firearm for criminal activity. He just needs to frame it differently than Harper did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh
I would personally expect them to try and use it to win the election... I expect that they probably will pass it and hype "we DID it for a SAFER Canada" .... this spun right (Think $100,000,000 / MONTH on CBC etc.) and with enough lies they could win the election on this division. After all this is the usual Lib tactic to spin, to lie and to rant and create fear and division. The usual blame the legal owner and fear mongering can be spun enough to get them the votes... I mean just look at the ignorance out there on firearms and their willingness to lie.... they finally took the lies down off the liberal.ca page on the ATT but they have displayed their willingness to lie.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Judges won't support it. Welsh is right, there aren't enough licensed handgun owners to beat out the antis. And the few who do exist are spread out so don't even count. This battle will be played out in the media and most are anti gun.
Trudeau doesn't really need to use it to win, it's a good bet he will win. Most Prime Minister stay for two rounds before the country kicks them out.
So suppose the ban happens. Afterwards there is a mass shooting. What are they going to do then, to convince the public that they can make them safe through passing more gun control legislation, when there is nothing left to do.. Gun control is a political tool that has been used to convince society that politicians can make them safe through the use of laws and order. It garners votes. When the public find out, that they have been hoodwinked and lied to, their trust in politicians and the system will again suffer yet another blow. I can’t image the Liberals are that stupid, to use up their gun control promotion. How will they then deal with the societal panic, when there is nothing left to be done to ensure public safety. Ralph has already made the point there is nothing that can be done to prevent the actions of a lone wolf, so he is well aware that any level of gun control is useless. Canada is not like either the U.K. or Australia, which are islands, we live next door to the greatest gun repository in the world, with a perfect permeable border, especially when it comes to gun trafficking. Blair is to investigate a gun ban, but see it for what it is a stall tactic. Wanting to be seen to be doing something, when there is nothing that can possibly be done.
You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
There is something that can be done. Jail the bazzturds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Great solution. The problem is they either lack the ability to apprehend the traffickers, or they want to keep them in business, in order to keep the public on edge, so they can used gun control as a political football to garner support and votes. Go back to my conspire theory post. You have an obvious trafficker arrested with a stash of drugs and an arsenal of handgun and he makes bail. What were they hoping he would do lead them to other members in the cell?
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
If there is a shooting they just won't say what type was used and like some of the recent polls about handhuns and assault rifles they show a single shot..... ignorance and fear mongering are possibly their way to votes... easy votes too.
Just look at some of the polls
https://www.1310news.com/
50/50
https://www.sootoday.com/polls/shoul...t-weapons-8610
Yes 255 votes 52.90 %
That is 255 votes for them and
No 227 votes 47.10 %
227 against ... enough for another majority. Immigration and firearms are their path to winning and continuing on their path to make Justin a dictator and Canada like Venezuela or China or Cuba. Bans and rhetoric and not accomplishing anything useful .... the way of the lefties ...
example Car bans next
https://montrealgazette.com/news/loc...d-cars-by-2030
P.S. a bit smarter in Barrie I guess...
https://www.barrietoday.com/polls/sh...edium=facebook
Yes 43 votes 7.07 %
No 565 votes 92.93 %
but alot of idiots in Kitchener
https://www.570news.com/ The federal government is considering a full ban on handguns and assault weapons. Do you support a full ban?
Yes 61.19%
No 38.81%
That's alot of votes that won't actually cost them many.... after all not many firearm owners can look at the history and vote Libs without ignoring alot of what they have done and said over and over.
Look at a gun ban like this.. The city says guns are not allowed... Great. So....... Only honest people lose out. Drugs are also not allowed and look at how effective that has been in stopping people dying from fentanyl overdoses.... Its lunacy. I'm not saying we need to incarcerate everyone. But those that deal with firearms illegaly... Absolutely. It would be nice if there was accountability on judges that give these guys bail and they go out doing the same ...stuff... while awaiting trial....
Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
Moving my conspiracy along a bit, the decision to allow bail, may have come from a source higher up. Especially if the hope was to be lead to other members of the cell Remember that situation was in the background. It was seemingly disconnected enough form the Danforth, that Ralph was remarkably quick to assert that the Danforth had no connection to terrorism. There was, of course, a belated claim by ISIS which has been light of. Nor has any connection since been made between the trafficker and the Danforth gun. Nor has there been any suggestion that the trafficker had any link to ISIS. So what was he amassing an arsenal of handguns for? What about his conduit for getting the drugs and gun? Was he interested in wealth, or might he have had a cause in mind?
Another thing, that has bother me, is the increasing number of deaths do to overdoses, with the appearance of fentanyl. It does make sense that traffickers would sell a product to get rid of their clientele and reduce their market share. Then when an antidote started to be employed to deal with overdose cases, a new drug ten time more potent than fentanyl makes it’s appearance. Perhaps a more subtle way of unleashing a reign of terror, while determining the best manner in which to employ guns.
You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting
- Gun Nut
It seems that like this is a good time to remind us of the outright lies that the Liberal's and their supporters have put out! Especially the complete lies and fear monger by Justin Trudeau who is often making statements that are completely false (transfer of long guns, transportation of handguns.....) .... I wonder if that idiots firearms that were stolen from his "country place" ever showed up.... or given his ignorance/lies he lied about owning any!
https://www.therebel.media/trudeau_s...edia_won_t_ask
We can't trust anything Justlied says!
That and look at the tens of thousands of doses of illegal drugs and the handguns that were seized from the brother of the recent truck attack..... I guess bans on all those illegal drugs, the smuggled cigarettes etc. work so well they think it will work for handguns too .... NOT!
... and her update
https://www.therebel.media/liberals_...ent_crime_wave
Sounds like what Mr Harper did with the long gun registry issue to win his elections.Spin,lie and create division,s.In fact it sounds like the present Conservative family imploding from within both here and in the Republican party in the USA.No need to fear the Liberals Mosquito when the Con,s are self destructing from within.JustinQuote:
Originally Posted by mosquito
will probably just have to run to win again.LOL
... maybe some spin yes ... but wait ..... if the division and spin you are talking about has to do with the spending and deficit ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHEX4LifR9A
Oh wait, he was right about the Liberal immigration and laws too....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfTzOHZCW50
and it seems like with all the rant about bans ... I guess he was right on firearms too .....
Don't worry, there is enough outside the bought and paid for media covering Justlied's temper tantrum rascist rants he has shown himself to be immature again and probably cost himself a bunch of votes in Quebec... I mean that with 1,000,000 subscribers theRebel's coverage of Justin's screaming fit .. well here it is.
Justin Trudeau calls heckling grandmother a "racist"
74,711 views
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3Qv8IOivNg
His complete failures in trade, buying a pipeline when it wasn't for sale at double the price that they can't sell now and killing future pipelines, immigration crisis, attacks on firearms, reducing sentences on criminals, NAFTA etc etc. we can be pretty sure that if the Conservatives can walk and talk they should get a majority over the fiasco that the Liebral's are creating. I mean to support them you would have to be .... a well .. . never mind.
Yeah problem is people don't seem as outraged as I would expect. I don't think people are all that aware. People are surprised when you tell them Trudeau has spoken highly of the Chinese government. Same one with more things to apologize for than him. As well as Castro. He was charismatic. But also killed lots people after the revolution ended... Maybe its no coincidence the liberal colour is red.
Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
Castro was JT's father. Google it.
Read some history books , the Liberal party has used red as its colour since 1867. Castro did not come to power until 1959.
I would never be intimidated by an idiot. Not saying who the idiot is, but just in general, you know ... :)
Yep and even before that the socialist/communist types were using it as far back as the French revolution period and even before that....Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_flag_(politics)
In politics, a red flag is predominantly a symbol of socialism, communism, Marxism, trade unions, and left-wing politics; it has been associated with left-wing politics since the French Revolution (1789–99).[1] Socialists adopted the symbol during the Revolutions of 1848 and it became a symbol of communism as a result of its use by the Paris Commune of 1871.
Here is a nice picture of socialists red flags...
http://rexcurry.net/socialism-red-fl...cialists1a.jpg
Yeah I saw that. Looks are there that's for sureQuote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
The GOP down south, that your so fond of , has red as it's colour as well, they must be radical communists.....SNAP!
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb750
Same attitude toward power too ... just how he treated the woman in Quebec.... police and yelling at her.. the admiration for tyrants and dictators, ..... his visit right before the old tyrants death and praise for the bloody b****** make it ... "interesting" when you look at the resemblances!
So??? .... given to them by the mediaQuote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
"Traditionally the party had no consistent color identity. After the 2000 election, the color red became associated with Republicans. That election night, for the first time all of the major broadcast networks used the same color scheme for the electoral map: states won by Republican nominee George W. Bush were colored red and states won by Democratic nominee Al Gore were colored blue. Although the assignment of colors to political parties is unofficial and informal, the media has come to represent the respective political parties using these colors. The party and its candidates have also come to embrace the color red.["
Prior to that it was reversed, took me a minute to find it, Reagan was shown as blue on the maps for example.
https://www.quora.com/Why-are-Democr...can-states-red
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...a3f4a8f6cd20-c
.........And all the connotations of that colour, or is that reserved for those you disagree with?
What? You (as usual) make no sense.... anyway... reading from the Smithsonian why the colours became standardized it was as simple a some idiot in the media party saying Republican starts with R.... as another example, the 1988 election mapQuote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...1981125543b1-c
Red fits the socialist/communists from the hundred million + killed last century right on to today ..
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/venezue...icolas-maduro/
interesting, they made it illegal to own firearms a few years back.....
It is a continuation of your last line in post 176. " The party and its candidates have also come to embrace the color red" ..... and according to you , all the connotations of that colour. They must be communists! Make sense now? Or are you more knowledgeable than the entire GOP? Although my last comment- question, might be true.
Mosquito,
I am voting Liberal just to cancel your vote out.
You sure know how to win friends and influence people,eh,Gilroy. LOL :fish:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
I've said nothing about being a fan of anything down south.......Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
That's fine, that is what democracy is .... it is the Liberals that admire dictatorships and praise tyrants and aid and abet terrorists and they have always had their supporters too. Heck the Libs even keep trying to change the way it works, who can vote, identification (or lack there of I should say...) To this day there are probably those with hearts of stone that voted and supported Stalin, Mao, Castro and the National Socialist in Germany and still do .... must be hard for those that had hearts not of stone to look at the kids and grandkids sometimes though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
I just can't see how after ethics violations, billions on useless gas lines, repeated national embarrassments, outright lies and fear mongering that someone could vote for this guy though...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosquito
P.S.
Some interesting numbers on the firearms seized in Toronto.
https://dennisryoung.ca/2018/08/30/t...ats-2007-2017/
Legally registered in 2017: 67
Domestically Sourced: 148
Total "crime guns" seized 726
They include air guns etc. and don't differentiate as is usual for police stats. but kinda shoots their b.s. justification out the window.
"There's no way in my world or any world I know that this would have an impact on somebody who's going to go out and buy an illegal gun and use it to kill another person or shoot another person. - Mike McCormack, Toronto Police Association president
"It really has no impact on the psyche of a gunman."
The intention is noble, he added, but it's "A notional gesture at best.".....
He said his years of experience in policing have taught him something about gun crime — individuals who steal, sell or use guns illegally are already facing mountains of jail time, so they're unfazed by one more law that condemns their actions."
REALLY ! To bad they hadn't figure this out 20 years ago. Nothing slow about these guys.
Regrettably John Tory can't seem to follow their logic.
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting
- Gun Nut
John Tory is a politician and a weak one at that. All this talk of banning handguns is virtue signalling and capitalizing on the increase in murders in Toronto. It will help Trudough change the channel in the next election when his disastrous record is brought up. Most Canadians would endorse a handgun ban unfortunately.
I think the general public would be a little more sympathetic if it was pointed out that by allowing this we are allowing the government to seize legally acquired private property. If we point out for example that if the Liberals stay in power it's not a stretch for them to ban, say, fossil fueled vehicles and force everyone to go electric. It can and will happen, especially if there are no armed civilians to protest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trky chsr
It's not the fossil fueled vehicles that are the problem, most of their exhaust ends up in a carbon sink in a matter of hours or at most a day. It's the 100,000 flights a day of fossil fueled aircraft. From 30,000 feet it takes days or a week for their exhaust to filter down through the atmosphere into a carbon sink. But hey, they are so high up, the whole thing is basically out of sight, so fundamentally out of mind. Plus the airlines industry provides a lot of employment and is such a cash cow for the government, they are loath to tackle the carbon waste they produce. Of course, there is the speed and efficiency of moving things by air. So let's make cars and factories the scapegoat.
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
The stupidity of some people knows no bounds !!!!!
We can't include air travel otherwise how would our illustrious leader go on vacation not to mention the rest of his cabinet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
I think we all need a reality check on this fossil fuel issue and global warming.WE CANADIANS are the worse offenders in the World,we live in a artificial country supported by our use of fossil fuels.For our numbers on this land we could not survive a winter and some of us even a summer without fuel.Just imagine the 6 million people in the GTA alone going without fuel for just a week in January,we would all be dead.The natural population of Canada might not be much more than when it was settled without fossil fuel,s...
While true I believe we are neutral or even negative with the number of lakes and trees we have per capita.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
actually that's incorrect when you take into account landmass and temps. Ontario alone is almost the size of Europe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
Well said! Can you imagine going back to the water-wheel, wood driven steam engine, ax and cross cut saw, wooden containers, and log cabins, with the fragrance of a fine wood fire for heat. Not to mention, plenty of wild habitat, dirt roads, wooden bridges, air free from exhaust fumes, no endangered wildlife, a regular hunting paradise. May the indigenous peoples of actually had something real, while we for our part have transformed it into something completely artificial. We have taken travel time which would have once taken days and weeks and transformed it into minutes and hours with technology and fossil fuel.
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut
GW
We are the biggest users of fossil fuels in the world,that is a sad fact because of our winter climate and distance for car use,plane use,.....We might be carbon neutral because of our forests and so forth BUT SERIOUSLY who are we kidding.If we are exporting oil to America and China and they are burning it off we really then become
the biggest contributors to global warming.I hope nobody seriously does not believe in man made warming when you turn on the news the evidence is there.
[QUOTE=Gun Nut;1067246]Well said! Can you imagine going back to the water-wheel, wood driven steam engine, ax and cross cut saw, wooden containers, and log cabins, with the fragrance of a fine wood fire for heat. Not to mention, plenty of wild habitat, dirt roads, wooden bridges, air free from exhaust fumes, no endangered wildlife, a regular hunting paradise. May the indigenous peoples of actually had something real, while we for our part have transformed it into something completely artificial. We have taken travel time which would have once taken days and weeks and transformed it into minutes and hours with technology and fossil fuel.
You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut [/Q
Imagine 6 million GTA residents marching north of highway 7 in the middle of winter into the bush to try and survive if the fossil fuel infrastructure and nuclear plants were to get shut down by some mishap.Expand that thought to the rest of Canadians suddenly without gas or propane.
[QUOTE=Gilroy;1067287]Ahhg! take out a couple bridges and they couldnt get this far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Nut
[QUOTE=Bushmoose;1067289]That,s not very neighborly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
[QUOTE=Bushmoose;1067289]That is one great idea , keep the Torontonians locked up in their own great city .Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
[QUOTE=jaycee;1067292]I can see it all now? It'd be like scenes from those Living Dead movies? Zombies all heading north only to be swept away by the current of the French River!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmoose
[QUOTE=Bushmoose;1067303]That's a good one !Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
If there was only some way to keep them from coming south, hmm I wonder if we could deepen and widen the Credit river and remove all bridges coming south. :D