180$ fine delevered to my door!

Got a nice visite from CO at my house tonight!

I've always been good with reporting and harvest questionnaires.
Trapping harvest reports
Bear, deer , turkey reports
I have been voluntarily collecting and shipping wings and feathers for waterfowl study!
I hunt moose on my land and on purchassed permition for county land near my house when im lucky enought to draw a tag!
Well this years moose hunt was not successful and i kind of forgot about the "moose hunter questionnaire" Actually i thought it would come in the mail and i would fill it out then (like the deer and bear report)! But it actually came in the envelope when i received my Tag and stayed in bottom of the drawer!!!

Well CO called during super and asked to met him outside! asked me a few questions and handed me a 180$ fine!
"Fail to return moose questionnaire" is what the fine is for!
I agree that the reporting is an essential tool in managing the local moose population. But what is 180$ of my hard earned money going to do for Moose or any wildlife?
I know the CO is doing his job ( or what he is been told to do!!!) But i cant help being frustrated!!! a simple friendly reminder would of done the job! NO?
It seems wrong seeing a CO with a nice flashy truck with an atv on the back knocking at my door during super time to hand over a fine for not returning a peace of paper by the Oct 29 deadline!
Is this commune practice ?
Here we enter a pool for 50$ and if your lucky you get a tag every 4-5 years! then the county charges 75$ for permition to hunt there land ( even if there are no permits required... for hunting any other game) And then this 180$ fine!
Anyone else get this??

Mandatory....good to see them enforcing it actually...sucks for sure, but....

If it's mandatory then there should be a postage paid envelope included for those who don't use the Internet !

I received a card in the mail and it did not include a stamp but you could do it online.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hardrack

If it's mandatory then there should be a postage paid envelope included for those who don't use the Internet !

---

did the co say anything in regard to not being eligible to enter the 2016 draw?

So what if you weren't finished moose hunting yet? It's open for a couple of weeks yet in parts of the province. Was it a WMU specific survey?

Never heard of a fine for not answering , wonder if you will get one for not answering the mandatory bear, black bear questionnaire.
Thanks for the reminder .
Black Bear Questionnaire to be done by Dec 15 2015.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GW11

So what if you weren't finished moose hunting yet? It's open for a couple of weeks yet in parts of the province. Was it a WMU specific survey?

---

That was the first thing that I thought of. Was the ticket for LAST years reporting that the OP missed,maybe?

Maybe you could visit a Justice of the Peace and state your explanation as to why it wasn't returned, it might get you a reduced fine. When do they actually want them returned by? I thought they gave you a few months and didn't rake you over the coals for not doing the paper work, I agree a friendly reminder would have been the respectful thing to do.

I wonder how the reporting is handled with the 'privileged groups' in this province?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GW11

So what if you weren't finished moose hunting yet? It's open for a couple of weeks yet in parts of the province. Was it a WMU specific survey?

---

it was! its not a card but a peice of paper in the envelope with the tag! Theres not even a return adress!!! so were do i send it? same place as the cards we get in the mail for deer? Cards i get! This loose peice of paper sent to me 2 months before the actual hunt!!!! i dont get!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JUDGE

Never heard of a fine for not answering , wonder if you will get one for not answering the mandatory bear, black bear questionnaire.
Thanks for the reminder .
Black Bear Questionnaire to be done by Dec 15 2015.

---

Just put mine in the mailbox!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

That was the first thing that I thought of. Was the ticket for LAST years reporting that the OP missed,maybe?

---

No i didnt have a tag last year! Its for 2015

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by waltman

Maybe you could visit a Justice of the Peace and state your explanation as to why it wasn't returned, it might get you a reduced fine. When do they actually want them returned by? I thought they gave you a few months and didn't rake you over the coals for not doing the paper work, I agree a friendly reminder would have been the respectful thing to do.

---

Hunt was oct 8 to 15
Report was due oct 29

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by domination

Got a nice visite from CO at my house tonight!

I've always been good with reporting and harvest questionnaires.
Trapping harvest reports
Bear, deer , turkey reports
I have been voluntarily collecting and shipping wings and feathers for waterfowl study!
I hunt moose on my land and on purchassed permition for county land near my house when im lucky enought to draw a tag!
Well this years moose hunt was not successful and i kind of forgot about the "moose hunter questionnaire" Actually i thought it would come in the mail and i would fill it out then (like the deer and bear report)! But it actually came in the envelope when i received my Tag and stayed in bottom of the drawer!!!

Well CO called during super and asked to met him outside! asked me a few questions and handed me a 180$ fine!
"Fail to return moose questionnaire" is what the fine is for!
I agree that the reporting is an essential tool in managing the local moose population. But what is 180$ of my hard earned money going to do for Moose or any wildlife?
I know the CO is doing his job ( or what he is been told to do!!!) But i cant help being frustrated!!! a simple friendly reminder would of done the job! NO?
It seems wrong seeing a CO with a nice flashy truck with an atv on the back knocking at my door during super time to hand over a fine for not returning a peace of paper by the Oct 29 deadline!
Is this commune practice ?
Here we enter a pool for 50$ and if your lucky you get a tag every 4-5 years! then the county charges 75$ for permition to hunt there land ( even if there are no permits required... for hunting any other game) And then this 180$ fine!
Anyone else get this??

---

Unfortunately mission accomplished. By handing out 1 ticket it has generated a discussion that may encourage those who may not have the inclination to submit theirs. Sure you could fight it but it will still cost you..... lost days wage or pay the fine you decide.

Buy tags for 5 years before you can hunt. Get 7 days to hunt with bow only when the rut is off! report within 2 weeks or get a fine!WOW!
And this on my own land were i see Moose tracks everywhere year round!
If its got to be this way why would a CO drive around at 6pm and knock on doors handing out fines?? is there not conservation stuff to be done? Cant they send a fine or... by mail ?
Just to think almost every time i walk out of my deer stand i here gun shots from guys shooting goose in there roosts well after legal time!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

Unfortunately mission accomplished. By handing out 1 ticket it has generated a discussion that may encourage those who may not have the inclination to submit theirs. Sure you could fight it but it will still cost you..... lost days wage or pay the fine you decide.

---

Oh i aint fighting it ! Its not worth my time! and the law now that! im just complaining a lot !!! LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by domination

Buy tags for 5 years before you can hunt. Get 7 days to hunt with bow only when the rut is off! report within 2 weeks or get a fine!WOW!
And this on my own land were i see Moose tracks everywhere year round!
If its got to be this way why would a CO drive around at 6pm and knock on doors handing out fines?? is there not conservation stuff to be done? Cant they send a fine or... by mail ?
Just to think almost every time i walk out of my deer stand i here gun shots from guys shooting goose in there roosts well after legal time!

---

OK,that explains it. Your tag was for the archery hunt. The rules are different for reporting.

I would've of said I sent it, lots of things go missing with Canada post.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

OK,that explains it. Your tag was for the archery hunt. The rules are different for reporting.

---

Thats all we have here in wmu 65. I never herd of bieng fined for this before!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bdog

I would've of said I sent it, lots of things go missing with Canada post.....

---

I am a little to honest!!! The good guys usualy pay for the rest ...
There we go! I found were my 180$ will go to help conservation! Its going to get a lot of guys that plainly disrigard reporting on purpasse on there toes!
So in my book ,this is yet an other contribution to conservation and the sports i love !!!
Wunder if i can declare that on my taxe return!lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by domination

Thats all we have here in wmu 65. I never herd of bieng fined for this before!

---

says on their website;

Quote:

---

Moose (WMU 65)

Who must report: validation tag holders in Wildlife Management Unit 65
Deadline: within 14 days after the last day of the hunt in the wildlife management unit specified on the permit or validation tag.
Questionnaire:

• mailed to hunters
• complete online or return by mail

---

When the CO asked you if you completed it and mailed it in you should have said "Yes". That is your own fault, you do realize it could have got lost in the mail...:silly:

great i idea if that 180 went to conservation of moose population but it wont ,just like every dime we pay on licenses it goes into one big pot and who knows what we are paying for.i think the whole thing is about generating revenue.and yes i did all mine on line but had a fellow tell me he had to hand his in early as well

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by canadaman30

When the CO asked you if you completed it and mailed it in you should have said "Yes". That is your own fault, you do realize it could have got lost in the mail...:silly:

---

Encouraging people to Lie to a CO is probably not the best advice you could give...

Too bad you didn't get a moose.

I filled in my Bear report last night & will be sending it in with the teeth today well ahead of the deadline.

I sent in Bear teeth last season & never got the crest or a report about my Bear. I included a note in there that if we go through the trouble of submitting the teeth the least they could do is send me the patch & info about my bear... :)

In most WMU moose is a survey and not a mandatory report like for wolf and bear. Years ago, I forgot to complet the wolf report, they sent me a new one by mail with a note.

And I agree with you, if it's mandatory so have to do their job, they should includ a stamp. Last time I had to use their online report it was broken!

mandatory..you agree to it when you buy a tag...if you can't afford the $0.85 cents then you really can't afford the tag let alone the $180 fine.

The OP has owned up...good for him and we all got the benefit from this thread to remind us of our obligations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

mandatory..you agree to it when you buy a tag...if you can't afford the $0.85 cents then you really can't afford the tag let alone the $180 fine.

The OP has owned up...good for him and we all got the benefit from this thread to remind us of our obligations.

---

the argument of an extra .85cents isn't the point! Our government should be inclusive if they want to promote an initiative such as a mandatory report. I do not remember seeing anywhere in the regulations that a specified fine of $180 is to be issued if you don't report.

I don't know why it is not Clearly stated, if you are hunting for these specific animals and don't submit the mandatory questionnaire that has paid postage envelope you will be fined X amount of dollars.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter

Too bad you didn't get a moose.

I filled in my Bear report last night & will be sending it in with the teeth today well ahead of the deadline.

I sent in Bear teeth last season & never got the crest or a report about my Bear. I included a note in there that if we go through the trouble of submitting the teeth the least they could do is send me the patch & info about my bear... :)

---

Maybe it just got lost in the mail.......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hardrack

I do not remember seeing anywhere in the regulations that a specified fine of $180 is to be issued if you don't report.

---

I've attached a link below that lists the preset fines that the MNR imposes...I was going to direct you straight to the applicable fine...but I think it get more out of it if you scan thru and see what it will cost you if you break a rule....

http://www.ontariocourts.ca/ocj/how-...schedule-17-5/

http://www.ontariocourts.ca/ocj/how-...schedule-17-7/

http://www.ontariocourts.ca/ocj/how-...schedule-17-8/

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Good on the OP for stepping up honestly when interviewed. Mandatory reporting for all species is common in almost all other jurisdictions. Northern US states require reporting and attending at check stations with all big game kills within 24hrs.

If you look online it is mandatory to report the questionaire 14 days after the last day of hunting in specific wmu...Inlcuding 65!!!......48...55A...55B....and 57

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

mandatory..you agree to it when you buy a tag...if you can't afford the $0.85 cents then you really can't afford the tag let alone the $180 fine.

The OP has owned up...good for him and we all got the benefit from this thread to remind us of our obligations.

---

My issue is not the money but to get the stamp. If it was already include it wouldn't seat on my desk or truck for months....

Also, when we buy a tag where does it says, or who told us, that will we have to complete anything? No where, it's kind a surprise....

And that questionnaire is BS anyway, I don't think anyone is honest. If you believe this report everyone saw moose, wolf, bear and deer!

^^^
Exactly.

It doesn't say Mandatory on any of the questionaires I have other than the black bear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seabast

My issue is not the money but to get the stamp.

---

I would only agree if 100% of the all hunters were being asked, so the cost of postage would be paid for out of the General funds....but since these questionnaires are specific to only a small group, why should the general funds be used....besides if your arguing the point on here, it's a moot point, because you have access to the internet and it can be done for FREE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seabast

And that questionnaire is BS anyway, I don't think anyone is honest. If you believe this report everyone saw moose, wolf, bear and deer!

---

I wouldn't have agreed to the fact that people would 'lie' on the questioner, but apparently, by some of the posts on here, it is apparent that people are willing to lie freely and encourage others to do so also....go figure :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

I would only agree if 100% of the all hunters were being asked, so the cost of postage would be paid for out of the General funds....but since these questionnaires are specific to only a small group, why should the general funds be used....besides if your arguing the point on here, it's a moot point, because you have access to the internet and it can be done for FREE.

---

Well, I just did it online and it was a LOT of work! I had to go all the way to my truck to get my wallet and then I had to open it to get my Outdoor Card!!!! If it was pre-stamp I would have drop it on the secretary desk and she would have took care of if.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

I wouldn't have agreed to the fact that people would 'lie' on the questioner, but apparently, by some of the posts on here, it is apparent that people are willing to lie freely and encourage others to do so also....go figure :)

---

Really, why would I shoot myself in the foot and tell them I didn't see anything.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seabast

Really, why would I shoot myself in the foot and tell them I didn't see anything.....

---

It seems we won't need to ask why hunter imput to EBR's etc. is largely ignored,then,will we? If this is the case,it's small wonder OMNRF regard hunters as bare-faced liars. We are our own worst enemies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by poltrojan

says on their website;
[/LIST]

---

ok i still dont see were itm talks about a fine!!!

My big problem is not a stamp or the report its self! And i can afford the fine no problem! Its the kind of attitude used to remind me( a simple friendly reminder would of done it!!) i was late reporting that really peepees me of!!! To many poeple with this Bully attitude that really takes the fun out off many things!!!And Its clear to see that there are a few on this site as well!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by domination

To many poeple with this Bully attitude that really takes the fun out off many things!!!And Its clear to see that there are a few on this site as well!

---

In general, when you post a 'rant' type thread on a public forum you have to be thicked skin enough to expect that not everyone will be sympathetic and support you whole heartily.

When people don't agree with you or support the opposite side of the debate/issue ..it doesn't make them "Bullies". No one was out of line with what was posted in this thread, it was actually very informative.

Sucks to be you but I'm glad the MNR is enforcing the MANDATORY questionnaire! Bet you never forget again especially when it can be done online!

We messed up last Saturday and turned ourselves in. We expected a fine before we phoned in. Told the CO at the time we deserve what we had coming. Cost my buddy $360.00.

If we would not have reported, some one else potentially would have been investigated for the offense.

He could of / should of let you complete the questionnaire while he waited. Probably would of taken the same amount of time as writing you the ticket.

My guess is that they have been lenient in the past, but with the fragile moose population in many areas they are getting stricter. And so they should!! I agree that it sucks and 180.00 is a lot of money but I am glad to see they are taking it seriously.Aside from that we complain when they dont do their job,but we complain a lot more when they do...lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hunter John

He could of / should of let you complete the questionnaire while he waited. Probably would of taken the same amount of time as writing you the ticket.

---

There we go! thats the kind of attitude that would get us somewere. Glad to see im not the only good , kind hearted guy out there!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcxextreme

My guess is that they have been lenient in the past, but with the fragile moose population in many areas they are getting stricter. And so they should!! I agree that it sucks and 180.00 is a lot of money but I am glad to see they are taking it seriously.Aside from that we complain when they dont do their job,but we complain a lot more when they do...lol

---

X2......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

In general, when you post a 'rant' type thread on a public forum you have to be thicked skin enough to expect that not everyone will be sympathetic and support you whole heartily.

When people don't agree with you or support the opposite side of the debate/issue ..it doesn't make them "Bullies". No one was out of line with what was posted in this thread, it was actually very informative.

---

Hey thanks for the advice!!! But its this kind of attitude i was talking about! When you cant see honesty, and good in people and only rely on law and politics ,well guess witch categories you are in! And yes it takes thick skin to remain a good guy !!!
Thanks for trying to school me! I think its pretty funny!!! this is the most replies i have ever had to a post! lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcxextreme

My guess is that they have been lenient in the past, but with the fragile moose population in many areas they are getting stricter. And so they should!! I agree that it sucks and 180.00 is a lot of money but I am glad to see they are taking it seriously.Aside from that we complain when they dont do their job,but we complain a lot more when they do...lol

---

Thats wath the CO said to me. When i told him that i was waiting for the questinaire to arive by mail and that i had just received my deer and bear questionairs, He said that this was the problem with most of the guys he had visited and fined that day. "You get the questionaire 2-3 months befoere the hunt and forget about it" he said! well they only guive out about 70 moose tags in 65 and he had a fairly long list of guys to visite. When he got here the ticket was already filled out and he just asked me to comfirm the spelling of my name so...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seabast

And that questionnaire is BS anyway, I don't think anyone is honest. If you believe this report everyone saw moose, wolf, bear and deer!

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seabast

Really, why would I shoot myself in the foot and tell them I didn't see anything.....

---

I do know some people that tend to exaggerate the numbers on the various hunter surveys that are given to big game hunters. I think it is a fairly common practice in hopes of preventing future tag reductions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

It seems we won't need to ask why hunter imput to EBR's etc. is largely ignored,then,will we? If this is the case,it's small wonder OMNRF regard hunters as bare-faced liars. We are our own worst enemies.

---

I guess its a vicious circle. The MNR don't believe the hunter reports because of some questionable responses, and hunters don't believe the MNR aerial surveys and such because of questionable results. Everyone is going through the motions, but neither side can be sure that they are getting accurate data.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bdog

I would've of said I sent it, lots of things go missing with Canada post.....

---

Good call

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Gunner

Good call

---

it really sucks to be the one getting the fine. I would rant just like the OP, but I wouldn't lie!
I'm someone who disagrees with some of our rules. I do tell everyone what does not make sense and why. However, I do follow them regardless and would expect everyone else to do the same.
I would want some changes in the rules, but not people who don't care about rules in general.
It is no wonder that we are not taken as seriously as we should by the MNRF
Thanks to the OP for sharing, it certainly will help others in the long run.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chris lavoie

We messed up last Saturday and turned ourselves in. We expected a fine before we phoned in. Told the CO at the time we deserve what we had coming. Cost my buddy $360.00.

If we would not have reported, some one else potentially would have been investigated for the offense.

---

good to hear that people are owing up to their mistakes!
there's always something that can go wrong and there should be a way out for honest people.
would be interesting to hear how it works out vs. how it would have if someone else reported it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by waltman

Maybe you could visit a Justice of the Peace and state your explanation as to why it wasn't returned, it might get you a reduced fine. When do they actually want them returned by? I thought they gave you a few months and didn't rake you over the coals for not doing the paper work, I agree a friendly reminder would have been the respectful thing to do.

---

A good JP will quite often see thru the money grab bull of the MNR and cut you some slack

It's in the reg's....seems harsh for sure.
Bet you don't forget next year; neither will lots of us now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Horridfiber101

It's in the reg's....seems harsh for sure.
Bet you don't forget next year; neither will lots of us now.

---

Hey im glad i could help all you guys stay on your toes for returning your questionnaires on time!Thats the crazy thing about forgetting! its you FORGET!!!lol Just like walking 2 kilometres to your stand and forgetting the keys to your trigger lock in your truck!lol I added an other post it to my wall!lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by domination

Hey im glad i could help all you guys stay on your toes for returning your questionnaires on time!Thats the crazy thing about forgetting! its you FORGET!!!lol Just like walking 2 kilometres to your stand and forgetting the keys to your trigger lock in your truck!lol I added an other post it to my wall!lol

---

Maybe we should send you a donation for reminding us there is consequences for not filling up a mandatory questionnaire!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seabast

Maybe we should send you a donation for reminding us there is consequences for not filling up a mandatory questionnaire!

---

No need! this ones on me !lol

I wouldn't fill it out on purpose regs or not,and. When he came to the door I'd tell him to go do his mother some more. Useless as they are

With an attitude like that I wonder if you even read the regs. Guess you are not one for rules? Or you have no need of 180.00

If the mnr sends you an envelope with a tag and a bunch of other papers in it, you dont read and understand the other papers? You were quite clearly told you had to fill out a mandatory survey by a certain date and you didn't do it so you pay the price. Suggesting that only those agreeing with your little tantrum are good people is offensive as well as ridiculous as is the suggestion by seabast that forum members donate to pay for your mistakes. What standup said about not filling it out and telling the co where to go was just plain ignorant. It sucks that you got dinged 180 bucks but it will teach you to read all papers sent to you instead of just tag grabbing and disregarding the rest. I am sure there are more than a few people on here happy to read that there are co's out there enforcing the rules.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waftrudnir

good to hear that people are owing up to their mistakes!
there's always something that can go wrong and there should be a way out for honest people.
would be interesting to hear how it works out vs. how it would have if someone else reported it

---

The fine could have been much worse if we did not call in. Like the guy who just got charged $6000.00 this week. He got lying to a co, transporting an illegally taken deer, illegal transfer of a game seal as he called his buddy to tag the deer and if a person scares off and leaves an animal in the field he would get abandoning an animal and wasting an animal.

Best to own up and admit your mistake!!!

Too bad about the fine and it's too bad we have others on here that think fining you was the right thing to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fratri

Too bad about the fine and it's too bad we have others on here that think fining you was the right thing to do.

---

Worse, I find it sad that there are so many guys on here who think that it's OK to lie to a CO to avoid a fine for not following the rules. We have rules to protect our privileges, with those rules comes enforcement. You break the rules, you pay the fine...pretty basic stuff...

Thinking you should get a break because you forgot or because your a 'good guy' is really an odd way to look at at how laws should be enforced.

The CO or any law enforcement official has the power to fine or give a warning. Too bad some can only think learning can only take place by being charged.

Interesting comments.

I wonder if the MNR is making up for the lack of moose hunters (read:revenue/taxes) this fall with the fines? We'll have to wait and compare the numbers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guelph1981

If the mnr sends you an envelope with a tag and a bunch of other papers in it, you dont read and understand the other papers? You were quite clearly told you had to fill out a mandatory survey by a certain date and you didn't do it so you pay the price. Suggesting that only those agreeing with your little tantrum are good people is offensive as well as ridiculous as is the suggestion by seabast that forum members donate to pay for your mistakes. What standup said about not filling it out and telling the co where to go was just plain ignorant. It sucks that you got dinged 180 bucks but it will teach you to read all papers sent to you instead of just tag grabbing and disregarding the rest. I am sure there are more than a few people on here happy to read that there are co's out there enforcing the rules.

---

Heres an other example of really bad attitude! That get now one no were!!!!Wow these guys are really getting worked up!!! id love to be there the day they are fined for a simple mistake! Or maybe they don't do mistakes! or will sertenly not admit to it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fratri

The CO or any law enforcement official has the power to fine or give a warning. Too bad some can only think learning can only take place by being charged.

---

The CO Is sertenly not acting on his own descision! He plain out told me that he was given a list of local hunters that had not reported. And probably given instructions to fine! Like i said before, The fine was already writen out when he got here and i would thingk the rest of the guys on his list also had fine pre writen waitting to be delevered! MONEY GRAB!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

Worse, I find it sad that there are so many guys on here who think that it's OK to lie to a CO to avoid a fine for not following the rules. We have rules to protect our privileges, with those rules comes enforcement. You break the rules, you pay the fine...pretty basic stuff...

Thinking you should get a break because you forgot or because your a 'good guy' is really an odd way to look at at how laws should be enforced.

---

If its sounds odd its probably because you dont have the Good guy thing going for you!!!

Used to do the controlled hunt with muzzle loader in 92B and there was a mandatory questionare every year and if you didn't fill it out you weren't eligible for the controlled hunt the next year, pretty plain and simple, no money or co's involved.

They are lucky I even filled mine out normally I would have thrown out the junk mail. I saw it was an MNR envelope and when I opened it there were a bunch of ads lucky me I decide to look through it. If they are going to send out an important information it should not include ads for companies.

Ads paid some of the costs to send out.

Then I would think it would also have covered the postage. Considering the cash poured in from outdoors people and adds and the huge cutbacks in the MNR.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

Ads paid some of the costs to send out.

---

I see it just like the ads in the hunting and fishing regs. A necessary evil to reduce costs.

More money is poured in then is put back into the MNR.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greatwhite

More money is poured in then is put back into the MNR.

---

Not actually true. The operating budget for the MNR is about $650 million per year. The number of licensed anglers and/or hunters is about 750,000 (and the majority of this number are fisherman who only buy a fishing licence and no tags). In order for your statement to be true every single one of those people would have to be spending over $865 every year on licenses and tags. Don't know about you but I don't come anywhere close to that and I small game hunt, big game hunt and fish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by domination

If its sounds odd its probably because you dont have the Good guy thing going for you!!!

---

Or maybe it's because of all those years where I sat behind the desk on the enforcement side. I've had many a young soldier standing in front of me at attention...staring straight forward...facing the outcome for not following orders (laws). If heard all the excuses, but they rarely had a valid reason why they didn't take care of their responsibilities.

There is a phrase out there now that summarizes it up nicely; "Suck it up Buttercup"....you failed in your obligations, you were fined, you whined about it, got some support and you were picked on by some 'bullies'.

The outcome...we all got a good warning about filling in the 'mandatory' paper work after the hunt....not a bad thread all in all :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greatwhite

They are lucky I even filled mine out normally I would have thrown out the junk mail. I saw it was an MNR envelope and when I opened it there were a bunch of ads lucky me I decide to look through it. If they are going to send out an important information it should not include ads for companies.

---

The difference in your questionnaire GW is that it probably was voluntary, not mandatory..so you could just chuck it. I fill them out (on-line) regardless, as the information is useful to the MNR.

Factoid; back in the day when they had to be mailed in, only 6% of hunters returned their 'voluntary' questionnaires. Lots of guys whine about the MNR not doing their jobs, but the fact was, hunters failed miserable at holding up their end of the equation. I wonder how many more returns they get now that it's on-line.

If they were really just doing a "cash crab"; they'd make it mandatory in all WMU's, add the $180 fine and then watch the money roll in :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Species8472

Not actually true. The operating budget for the MNR is about $650 million per year. The number of licensed anglers and/or hunters is about 750,000 (and the majority of this number are fisherman who only buy a fishing licence and no tags). In order for your statement to be true every single one of those people would have to be spending over $865 every year on licenses and tags. Don't know about you but I don't come anywhere close to that and I small game hunt, big game hunt and fish.

---

They should be paying hunters using general tax revenue to support Ontario wildlife. Follow along with me for a second..... Wildlife belongs to all residents of Ontario. So it should only be fair that all residents help maintain and keep our wildlife in check. I am more than willing to do my part, but why am I paying/doing more (buying license, time, fuel etc....) than the average Ontario resident when clearly I am managing our resources much better than most Ontarians that are just sitting at home on the couch watching TV.... Insurance companies love us....
I tell you, hunters are getting the short end of the stick and it's just not fair if you ask me..... :)

Edit: Off to do my part again and manage our goose population for the rest of the province.:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fratri

They should be paying hunters using general tax revenue to support Ontario wildlife. Follow along with me for a second..... Wildlife belongs to all residents of Ontario. So it should only be fair that all residents help maintain and keep our wildlife in check. I am more than willing to do my part, but why am I paying/doing more (buying license, time, fuel etc....) than the average Ontario resident when clearly I am managing our resources much better than most Ontarians that are just sitting at home on the couch watching TV.... Insurance companies love us....
I tell you, hunters are getting the short end of the stick and it's just not fair if you ask me..... :)

Edit: Off to do my part again and manage our goose population for the rest of the province.:)

---

Great thought initially however be careful what you wish for since thinking like that gives anti's the right to say they are mine too so don't touch them

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jlmorgan

Used to do the controlled hunt with muzzle loader in 92B and there was a mandatory questionare every year and if you didn't fill it out you weren't eligible for the controlled hunt the next year, pretty plain and simple, no money or co's involved.

---

That still is how things are supposed to work, but I know of more than one person that have never completed the controlled hunt questionnaire for years, yet are never disqualified for the next year's hunt.

I participated in the controlled hunt the first week of Nov. If you look at the info from the MNR site (see screenshot 1), it stipulates that the mandatory report must be completed within 14 days of the hunt. I just got my mandatory report in the mail earlier this week, more than two weeks after finishing the hunt.

http://www.ontario.ca/page/submit-hu...arvest-reports

Another item of note is that while the website stipulates reporting within 14 days of the hunt's end, the instructions on the survey itself say to submit it only after all your deer hunting activities for the year are complete (see screenshot 2). Since I bow hunt, this potentially means I don't have to report until after Dec. 31.

The information between these two MNR sources is conflicting, to say the least.

On another note, the MNR finally got smart and sent my moose report and deer report together in the same envelope instead of mailing each separately.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

Great thought initially however be careful what you wish for since thinking like that gives anti's the right to say they are mine too so don't touch them

---

Those wild animals belong to us all including the anti's, so we all must be managers of our resources. Not sure how the anti's manage our wildlife but I know how I am doing my part... :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by domination

The CO Is sertenly not acting on his own descision! He plain out told me that he was given a list of local hunters that had not reported. And probably given instructions to fine! Like i said before, The fine was already writen out when he got here and i would thingk the rest of the guys on his list also had fine pre writen waitting to be delevered! MONEY GRAB!!!!

---

Sorry to hear about this but the CO does still have discretion. Anyway I would set a date for a trial which is your right and hear the evidence, question the CO as to how he came to issue tickets ,was he under direct orders from the District Supervisor. I would take the stand and give my defence, if you are convicted I would ask for a reduced fine. If everybody ticketed did this and tied down the court for a few days it might send a message.

It does smack of a money grab and alienates hunters from the Ministry that is supposed to support hunters .Very sad state of affairs IMHO.

What would your defence be? I forgot or I did not want to?

If the poster forgot it would not establish a defence but it is an explination for the Justice.

The Ministry has plenty of time to play with the numbers for next years tags, so what is the big deal here fining hunters .The idea of the return is to get information to be used to manage the Moose numbers.


With the dismal way the resource has been managed by the Ministry we should be demanding they get fined.LOL

I didn't send in my mandatory bear hunting questionnaire seven years ago. The OMNR actually printed me out one and mailed it to me at the end of December, already past the deadline. I filled that one out and mailed it in and never heard back from them about a ticket.

That's a great friendly reminder, and from the government of all places. However, if I had gotten a ticket in the mail instead I wouldn't cry about it because I earned it. When you buy your tag you're agreeing to all the stipulations of it, a questionnaire being one of them.

I don't know that pushing the issue to a trial is the right way to go. The offence is pretty much absolute liability. Either you reported as per the Act, or you didn't. Not much of a defence available. The hearing JP may not be too pleased that the expense of a trial was incurred. However, pleading guilty with an explanation is an option. Given the fact that the survey is given out some months before the hunt, may be reason enough to get the fine greatly reduced.

This is a prime example of MNR justice. They say the report is mandatory when issuing the licence but do not spell out the penalty for noncompliance. How many other licences over the years have been MANDATORY? Quite a few. The early controlled deer shotgun hunts actually stated the failure to submit would make you ineligible for the next season. I know lots of guys that never handed them in and guess what? bought a licence and hunted the following year. one yr I sent in my bear report 3 times and they still notified me well into the next year. twice I faxed it in and then sent it as an email attachment with a HIGH ALERT to the supervisor in Bracebridge with a return notification to me when the email was opened. 2 other guys I knew had the same problem. I called twice - only to be told my FAX machine must be out of order. you mean General Motors Engineering dept has a faulty fax - REALLY.????.one of the other guys is a city administrator and the last guy is a systems analysis for a major company All our fax machines were faulty??? I said "look lady - maybe you should clean up your own house before you start flingin S#*t around " I have the proof they were sent!

I understand the poster didn't submit it and my feelings are he should have. BUT in all of Ontario and all the non-returned MANDATORY reports and he gets $180 slap. If he gets it then everyone who doesn't submit should get it also! and right NOW! It's not that MNR doesn't know who they are!

this would sure open a can of worms.

His best answer to the judge should be "discriminatory"

I truly hate this "discretion of the officer crap" .. to me it's black and white either guilty or innocent.

yes the poster is guilty but he should be treated the same as all the other guilty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rick_iles

I don't know that pushing the issue to a trial is the right way to go. The offence is pretty much absolute liability. Either you reported as per the Act, or you didn't. Not much of a defence available. The hearing JP may not be too pleased that the expense of a trial was incurred. However, pleading guilty with an explanation is an option. Given the fact that the survey is given out some months before the hunt, may be reason enough to get the fine greatly reduced.

---

My thoughts too. I don't think the JP is going to cut you much slack and the MNR is going to have more lawyers on this than you can imagine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by domination

He plain out told me that he was given a list of local hunters that had not reported. And probably given instructions to fine! Like i said before, The fine was already writen out when he got here and i would thingk the rest of the guys on his list also had fine pre writen waitting to be delevered!

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SK33T3R

BUT in all of Ontario and all the non-returned MANDATORY reports and he gets $180 slap. If he gets it then everyone who doesn't submit should get it also! and right NOW! It's not that MNR doesn't know who they are!

---

According to the OP this CO was given a list and a bunch of pre-written fines to deliver...so maybe they are going to be cracking down on enforcement this year.

Not sure why they would have to supply the consequences when they issue the license?

when you first got you hunting license or renewed it did they provide all the possible charges and fines?
when you get a fishing license do they provide the fines?

I do feel sorry for the guy who gets fined when he actually does mail it in and it gets lost by Canada Post. It will be interesting when someone does challenge this in court. Basing a charge on the fact the MNR did not receive it does not prove it wasn't sent. Due diligence ends as soon as the hunter drops it in the mailbox. It's not his or her responsibility to see to it the survey gets delivered to the the MNR. People are going to lie and say they sent it in just to avoid a fine. May not be right but it's going to happen.

Unfortunately you will have to prove you sent it in ,which will mean registered mail. In a court of law the onus is on you to prove what you are claiming, not the prosecution.

Here is a little invented convarsation that will anwer a few questions and spark up a few more!
I Never said i was not guilty! will i pay my fine? Yes!I did not send it in! Did i do it on purpace? No! Did i forget? No! i was waiting for it to come in the mail like i am used to with the deer and bear questionnaire! Did i know that it was in the envelop with the tag when i received it in late august? No! Is there apparently many hunters in my wmu who don't return there questionnaires? Thats what the CO that gave me the ticket said and also said its been a problem For a long time! Do you think the moose questionaire system for your wmu is working? No! Do you think that tracking douwn all the 2015 moose hunters in wmu 65 that did not send it in and slap them with a fine is the way to resolve the problem? No! would it help if we start by doing changes on how and when the questionaire is distributed?Yes

You have done more to make sure it does not happen, to all that have read your posts on the subject, than any letter by the MNR ever could.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

Unfortunately you will have to prove you sent it in ,which will mean registered mail. In a court of law the onus is on you to prove what you are claiming, not the prosecution.

---

Nope. In this Country you're innocent until proven guilty. Burden of proof is always on the prosecution and the fact that the MNR does not receive a survey is not proof it wasn't sent.

Go before a JP and enter a plea of Guilty with an explanation.
Your explanation is that you were expecting to receive it in the mail as you have with other questionaires. This is a reasonable excuse.
Most often you will get the benefit of the doubt and receive a lesser penalty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TPM

Nope. In this Country you're innocent until proven guilty. Burden of proof is always on the prosecution and the fact that the MNR does not receive a survey is not proof it wasn't sent.

---

You try telling the bank they can't foreclose on your house, or you paid your speeding ticket fines because, "the cheque is in the mail".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

You try telling the bank they can't foreclose on your house, or you paid your speeding ticket fines because, "the cheque is in the mail".

---

Apples and oranges. With a mortgage your obligation is to see to it the bank receives payment and you're responsible for every step of the process. Same goes for a speeding ticket. You're only obligation with the survery is to fill it out and see to it that it gets in the mail. I doubt there is any judge out there who wouldn't accept that as due diligence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sawbill

Go before a JP and enter a plea of Guilty with an explanation.
Your explanation is that you were expecting to receive it in the mail as you have with other questionaires. This is a reasonable excuse.
Most often you will get the benefit of the doubt and receive a lesser penalty.

---

This what i rely would like to due and have being advised to due by many of you guys! But like most of you,work feeds my family and any spare time at this time of year is spent trapping,hunting and fishing!So im going to just pay the fine and move on ! Even if i thingk wath happened is morally wrong and that its a shame that our ressources are runned by poeple with this kind of attitude(slap fine,peepee off hunters...) I am happy that so many of you guys ( my fellow outdoorsman) feel the same way!Know as soon as my big monster 8 pionter can expopse him self when im actualy in the stand, i will forget about this hole thing! lol
And hopfully not ever forget a to return a questionnaire!lol

holy crap.

There be something on the ticket stating the specific charge under the Fish and Wildlife Act. I'd be curious as to what it is. I was unaware there were any fines attached to a failure to report.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sawbill

Go before a JP and enter a plea of Guilty with an explanation.
Your explanation is that you were expecting to receive it in the mail as you have with other questionaires. This is a reasonable excuse.
Most often you will get the benefit of the doubt and receive a lesser penalty.

---

exactly Go before a JP and enter a plea of Guilty with an explanation.

I did this once with a parking ticket for parking on the boulevard in front of my own house.
I was going to plead innocent but the cop didn't show up (he's allowed to miss the 1st time) but if you miss you're in contempt of court! So I would have missed work twice. Trust me this is a game the cops play because they know the average guy can't afford to miss or travel twice.

so my only alternative to talk to the judge was to plea guilty with an explanation.

Police did not show up (MNR might not either). I tied up the court for an hour with diagrams, road widths, emergency vehicle widths and specifications, distance from curb bylaws, etc etc etc. So I made it very clear that although the officer used his discretion I too used my discretion. In the end it appeared that my discretion outwayed the officers discretion and I was found guilty with a suspended sentence. NO FINE! I then stated how disappointed I was that I could not face my accuser.

You shoulda seen the snarl up in that court I caused. There were cops and detectives and lawyers and guys in handcuffs that had to see and listen to my presentation for over an hour.

There were 2 other guys going up right after me for the same offence. parking on boulevards. The judge just waved the hammer and sent us all out at once!

GO TO COURT! plead discrimination or harassment. Ask why of all the hunters in Ontario that did not submit - why only guys in your unit got slapped by the same MNR office/officer. I would run an ad and try to find out all the others and you should all go to court - ALL OF YOU. Plead guilty with an explanation (which is your right). You are allowed to talk to explain your actions and as long as you don't repeat yourself you can tie up that court forever.

Been there - done it!

After reading this thread I'm kind of disgusted by the attitudes of some. There are rules and regulations that we must follow and if you choose to break them man up and pay the consequences. The excuses are sickening. Its a cash grab....bull if you don't want to pay them send in your report. They should pay postage...bull use the free service online as your already here aren't you? They should of reminded me...bull you remembered to apply on your own and go out hunting yet somehow forgot too forgot to submit? Tie up the courts to lessen your punishment......bull as already said man up buttercup. No wonder enforcement is bogged down with all the baby sitting legit hunters expect to have can only imagine what the criminals get away with. Do your part regulate yourselves please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

After reading this thread I'm kind of disgusted by the attitudes of some. There are rules and regulations that we must follow and if you choose to break them man up and pay the consequences. The excuses are sickening. Its a cash grab....bull if you don't want to pay them send in your report. They should pay postage...bull use the free service online as your already here aren't you? They should of reminded me...bull you remembered to apply on your own and go out hunting yet somehow forgot too forgot to submit? Tie up the courts to lessen your punishment......bull as already said man up buttercup. No wonder enforcement is bogged down with all the baby sitting legit hunters expect to have can only imagine what the criminals get away with. Do your part regulate yourselves please.

---

Judge and Jury now?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

After reading this thread I'm kind of disgusted by the attitudes of some. There are rules and regulations that we must follow and if you choose to break them man up and pay the consequences. The excuses are sickening. Its a cash grab....bull if you don't want to pay them send in your report. They should pay postage...bull use the free service online as your already here aren't you? They should of reminded me...bull you remembered to apply on your own and go out hunting yet somehow forgot too forgot to submit? Tie up the courts to lessen your punishment......bull as already said man up buttercup. No wonder enforcement is bogged down with all the baby sitting legit hunters expect to have can only imagine what the criminals get away with. Do your part regulate yourselves please.

---

So you rely think that CO pulling a list of hunters , driving around after super time ,handing ticket for "failure to report" is a good use of the "bogged down enforcement" ! Come on man! get real!!! This kind of narrow sited attidude is waths discusting! It may be worth taking a day off work to go fight this "money crab"
Thanks for the last push "buttercup"!

He already admitted his guilt.

What I have a hard time understanding is when a person screws up and forgets to send in a mandatory report (that he knows he has to send in) he has to complain about a CO giving him a ticket. If it was me I would be embarrassed and wouldn't be admitting that on an open forum. Pay the ticket and take responsibility for YOUR screw up. As far as I'm concerned the CO showing up at your house at supper is a good use of his time. Why would he show up looking for you during the day when most people are working. One last thought, if people like you filled in their MANDATORY reports the CO would have a lot more time to chase serious offenders and not waste his time on you.

I'm curious, has anyone here been fined of know of anyone being fined and how did they handle it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TPM

I'm curious, has anyone here been fined of know of anyone being fined and how did they handle it?

---

Yep! I know of several people and they did the same thing as we see here.....bit**d and chewed and paid the fine.LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TPM

I'm curious, has anyone here been fined of know of anyone being fined and how did they handle it?

---

Im curious also? Ive been asking freind and older hunters i know and they have never herd of anyone being fined for this. And (not that i approuve there behavior) some of these older guys have never returned a questionnaire.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

Yep! I know of several people and they did the same thing as we see here.....bit**d and chewed and paid the fine.LOL

---

Fined for what exactly?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GW11

So what if you weren't finished moose hunting yet? It's open for a couple of weeks yet in parts of the province. Was it a WMU specific survey?

---

Must be wmu specific cause my brother just left camp last night from his moose hunt

52.1 (3) - O.Reg 665/98

Fail to return completed moose questionnaire — WMU 65

Set Fine: $150.00

Total Payable: $180.00

The holder of a permit or validation tag to hunt moose in wildlife management unit 65 who is provided a questionnaire relating to the hunting activities carried out under that permit or validation tag shall complete the questionnaire and return it

The regs also say a person who fails to report is also ineligible to get a permit the following year !!!!! That's worse than the fine !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams

Must be wmu specific cause my brother just left camp last night from his moose hunt

---

Yes its specific to wmu 65

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by domination

Fined for what exactly?

---

Two were ticketed for "failing to report-wild turkey" and two for "fail to wear blaze orange". Pretty much a couple of no-brainers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

Two were ticketed for "failing to report-wild turkey" and two for "fail to wear blaze orange". Pretty much a couple of no-brainers.

---

especially with the turkey course were its explained to hunters!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rick_iles

52.1 (3) - O.Reg 665/98

Fail to return completed moose questionnaire — WMU 65

Set Fine: $150.
Total Payable: $180.00

The holder of a permit or validation tag to hunt moose in wildlife management unit 65 who is provided a questionnaire relating to the hunting activities carried out under that permit or validation tag shall complete the questionnaire and return it

The regs also say a person who fails to report is also ineligible to get a permit the following year !!!!! That's worse than the fine !

---

I am going to frame the ticket and hang it up! So fare i think im the very first guy in this wmu to be fined for this!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by domination

This what i rely would like to due and have being advised to due by many of you guys! But like most of you,work feeds my family and any spare time at this time of year is spent trapping,hunting and fishing!So im going to just pay the fine and move on ! Even if i thingk wath happened is morally wrong and that its a shame that our ressources are runned by poeple with this kind of attitude(slap fine,peepee off hunters...) I am happy that so many of you guys ( my fellow outdoorsman) feel the same way!Know as soon as my big monster 8 pionter can expopse him self when im actualy in the stand, i will forget about this hole thing! lol
And hopfully not ever forget a to return a questionnaire!lol

---

I dont find it a shame that our COs are enforcing the law. We need more of this, not less of it.

Im sorry, but your situation is akin to someone whining about a speeding ticket. Plain and simple. Do your report on time and stop complaining.

Its not like you didnt know about it; you received it with your tag.

Sound like you already made up your mind to take ownership of your oversight to this requirement, pay the fine and be done with it. Similar to what others have said taking time off work to state your reasoning in order to get the fine reduced would be wasting your time and losing money on top of that. No brainer to me. Most Ontarians probably don't fully understand 25% of the Provincial Acts or Regulations we have to live by day to day in our Province. CO is just doing his job as directed, trying to collect funds for Ms. Wynne, sure his resources are needed elsewhere, but resources are thin and on this day he was tasked to hand out fines, which in turn will actually make money for the province.
Planned a duck hunt many moons ago at Hullet, was going to leave right after working an afternoon shift. Loaded the car for hunt, placed my hunting licences in my back pocket and went to work. After work picked up a buddy and drove to Hullet. In the morning changed out of my work pants into hunting pants and went for ducks. CO stops by the blind and asks for licences and I have a holy moment, explain my situation. CO says pack up your gear lets go to your car to see your licence. We pack up decoys, 1/2 hour back out of the marsh. Get to the car show him my licences, writes me a Provincial Offence Notice for not having my licence on my person. Paid the fine as innocent as it was, it was not worth my time or losing money from work to attend court having to drive to Lake Huron to explain my self. Its a PON, no criminal record, insurance isn't going to skyrocket, pay the fine, learn from the error and move on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

I've attached a link below that lists the preset fines that the MNR imposes...I was going to direct you straight to the applicable fine...but I think it get more out of it if you scan thru and see what it will cost you if you break a rule....

http://www.ontariocourts.ca/ocj/how-...schedule-17-5/

http://www.ontariocourts.ca/ocj/how-...schedule-17-7/

http://www.ontariocourts.ca/ocj/how-...schedule-17-8/

---

thank you! What boggles my mind is why are they not enforced?.. Is it because they can't? Doesn't make sense... Does it?











[/QUOTE]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

After reading this thread I'm kind of disgusted by the attitudes of some. There are rules and regulations that we must follow and if you choose to break them man up and pay the consequences. The excuses are sickening. Its a cash grab....bull if you don't want to pay them send in your report. They should pay postage...bull use the free service online as your already here aren't you? They should of reminded me...bull you remembered to apply on your own and go out hunting yet somehow forgot too forgot to submit? Tie up the courts to lessen your punishment......bull as already said man up buttercup. No wonder enforcement is bogged down with all the baby sitting legit hunters expect to have can only imagine what the criminals get away with. Do your part regulate yourselves please.

---

As a former LEO I would be embarrassed to take the stand and say I gave a citizen a $180.00 ticket for not submitting a form.

You don't get fined in Canada for NOT VOTING but you can get whacked for a not filling out a form.

The whole thing is backwards, what type of returns will the MNR get from hunters who are already pissed off?

They are seeking good information on which to base harvest quotas for the next season.

When you make things MANDATORY in any situation you will get push back.

No it would be off to court for me ,put the CO on the stand, question him about how many hunters were charged, who initiated the process and even if your convicted I don't believe the penalty will be higher. I would then be firing off letters to the Minister and asking support from quess who the OFAH.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

You don't get fined in Canada for NOT VOTING but you can get whacked for a not filling out a form.

---

Well the Conservatives did a good deed and try to fix that, however the Liberals still think that you should be punished for not filling out a form.

Quote:

---

The Liberals Thursday kept a campaign pledge by reinstating the long-form census, while avoiding discussion of penalties for those who don’t fill it out.


The Statistics Act includes a $500 fine or up to three months in prison for refusing to fill out the survey or providing false information.

---

It should be noted, again, that the CO was just acting as a 'bailiff'...delivering the fines on behalf of the MNR.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

No it would be off to court for me ,put the CO on the stand, question him about how many hunters were charged, who initiated the process and even if your convicted I don't believe the penalty will be higher. I would then be firing off letters to the Minister and asking support from quess who the OFAH.

---

So let me get this straight. As a former LEO you are recommending to blow off a mandatory reporting which may take 10 minutes of your time in favour of hours of court time and letter writing. Don't see how that is better than doing what you should be doing regardless if its mandatory or not. I believe a mans actions are his own responsibility so the argument that since others haven't report or been fined is hooey. Asked a cop once why I was given a speeding fine while other cars were zipping by on the 400 his response was " I can only catch 1 at a time. This time its you". No need to find fault in others or the system. Admit your guilt pay the fine be more responsible and attentive next time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

So let me get this straight. As a former LEO you are recommending to blow off a mandatory reporting which may take 10 minutes of your time in favour of hours of court time and letter writing. Don't see how that is better than doing what you should be doing regardless if its mandatory or not. I believe a mans actions are his own responsibility so the argument that since others haven't report or been fined is hooey. Asked a cop once why I was given a speeding fine while other cars were zipping by on the 400 his response was " I can only catch 1 at a time. This time its you". No need to find fault in others or the system. Admit your guilt pay the fine be more responsible and attentive next time.

---

I have the RIGHT to a fair trial and I choose to exercise that right period .The out of court settlement saves a person the bother of going to court. But the OP, myself and a lot of other readers feel there is a "point of principle" here.

Frankly I find it offensive that otherwise law abiding and responsible hunters are paying the price literally for the Mismanagement of the Moose herd by the MNR.

Maybe the CO,s should be using their time to catch poachers instead of "picking the low hanging fruit" by knocking on hunters doors.

Also I question the amount of the fine, there are a lot of more serious offences listed with much lesser fines.

The whole thing stinks and its a terrible way to try and elicit real information to manage the Moose population.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

I have the RIGHT to a fair trial and I choose to exercise that right period .The out of court settlement saves a person the bother of going to court. But the OP, myself and a lot of other readers feel there is a "point of principle" here.

Frankly I find it offensive that otherwise law abiding and responsible hunters are paying the price literally for the Mismanagement of the Moose herd by the MNR.

Maybe the CO,s should be using their time to catch poachers instead of "picking the low hanging fruit" by knocking on hunters doors.

Also I question the amount of the fine, there are a lot of more serious offences listed with much lesser fines.

The whole thing stinks and its a terrible way to try and elicit real information to manage the Moose population.

---

Vaild points,all of them. It always made me wonder how many hunters routinely check off "NO" and "NO" ,hit "SEND" and forget about it whether they saw anything or used a tag or not. Like,who's to know after the fact and,even worse,who the hell cares?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

I have the RIGHT to a fair trial and I choose to exercise that right period .The out of court settlement saves a person the bother of going to court. But the OP, myself and a lot of other readers feel there is a "point of principle" here.

Frankly I find it offensive that otherwise law abiding and responsible hunters are paying the price literally for the Mismanagement of the Moose herd by the MNR.

Maybe the CO,s should be using their time to catch poachers instead of "picking the low hanging fruit" by knocking on hunters doors.

Also I question the amount of the fine, there are a lot of more serious offences listed with much lesser fines.

The whole thing stinks and its a terrible way to try and elicit real information to manage the Moose population.

---

Holy Moly. I agree 100% with Gilroy. We gotta get together for fondue before the holidays. My treat.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...psqmjpb9zm.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

Frankly I find it offensive that otherwise law abiding and responsible hunters are paying the price literally for the Mismanagement of the Moose herd by the MNR.

---

Well there's a hole in that logic......you don't want to have mandatory reporting..then blame the MNR for not managing the moose, but they need the data from reports to help them manage the herd. They have already tried 'volunteer' reporting and only got a 6% return...so they made it mandatory with a fine for not complying.

Maybe the hunters should just do as they are asked by the MNR when they agree to buy a tag...don't like the rules, don't buy a tag..that'll teach them :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

I have the RIGHT to a fair trial and I choose to exercise that right period .The out of court settlement saves a person the bother of going to court. But the OP, myself and a lot of other readers feel there is a "point of principle" here.

Frankly I find it offensive that otherwise law abiding and responsible hunters are paying the price literally for the Mismanagement of the Moose herd by the MNR.

Maybe the CO,s should be using their time to catch poachers instead of "picking the low hanging fruit" by knocking on hunters doors.

Also I question the amount of the fine, there are a lot of more serious offences listed with much lesser fines.

The whole thing stinks and its a terrible way to try and elicit real information to manage the Moose population.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

Well there's a hole in that logic......you don't want to have mandatory reporting..then blame the MNR for not managing the moose, but they need the data from reports to help them manage the herd. They have already tried 'volunteer' reporting and only got a 6% return...so they made it mandatory with a fine for not complying.

Maybe the hunters should just do as they are asked by the MNR when they agree to buy a tag...don't like the rules, don't buy a tag..that'll teach them :)

---

Could not of said it better. Thankyou

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hunter John

Holy Moly. I agree 100% with Gilroy. We gotta get together for fondue before the holidays. My treat.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...psqmjpb9zm.jpg

---

I,am in.

"Well there's a hole in that logic......you don't want to have mandatory reporting..then blame the MNR for not managing the moose, but they need the data from reports to help them manage the herd. They have already tried 'volunteer' reporting and only got a 6% return...so they made it mandatory with a fine for not complying."

When they enact Mandatory reporting they are basically "ordering you to do what they want", right away that's a none starter with
A type personalities.
They would not need any type of reporting if they spent the time and money to manage the herd, I don't remember when they started this reporting stuff But what exactly did they do before this .Let me quess they spent the time and money.

So they are now crying poor, don't have enough personnel, don't have money for aerial surveys ,cant hire students to count pellets,
so how do we solve this, well lets take the lazy way out and make the hunters do our work for us and if they don't comply lets give them a big fine.

What a friggin joke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilroy

, well lets take the lazy way out and make the hunters do our work for us and if they don't comply lets give them a big fine.

---

The only 'lazy' in this whole scenario is the guy who can't a few minutes to provide the MNR with answers to a few questions, as required.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

The only 'lazy' in this whole scenario is the guy who can't a few minutes to provide the MNR with answers to a few questions, as required.

---

Mike if you want to live in a "police state" where we all go about like "sheep" obeying the decrees issued by some pen pushers at Queens Park that's fine with me.

I don't work for the government and they don't pay me to fill out their wee forms. I also refuse to pay the postage as I consider it another tax.

The lazy ones are the authors of the penalties and have been to lazy to properly manage the resource, you know Mike the people WE pay to do a job for us.

I hope they fine everyone who breaks the rules, law abiding people need not worry, it is a fine not a tax , but it means more money coming in . I am OK with, play by the rules or pay. Don't like the rules don't play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

I hope they fine everyone who breaks the rules, law abiding people need not worry, it is a fine not a tax , but it means more money coming in . I am OK with, play by the rules or pay. Don't like the rules don't play.

---

The fine does not apply unless you fold your tent and pay the out of court settlement .If you want uncle Gilroys 180 bucks, better put aside an afternoons court time with the officer in attendance. Probably end up costing the system, three times that much. If I get convicted probably go for an appeal ,after all that,I will need a year to pay the fine on the installment plan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by standup

I wouldn't fill it out on purpose regs or not,and. When he came to the door I'd tell him to go do his mother some more. Useless as they are

---

Its funny how attitudes will influence perception and the resulting events:

During the deer hunt we were "warned" by another camp that the CO's were on their way on ATVs, that they were a couple of real A-holes and to watch out for their many "trick questions". The camp was proud of how standoffish they were with the CO's and grumbled about how everyone's licenses were checked.

Sure enough, an hour later the same 2 CO's rolled into our camp (they pretty much visit us every year). Nice guys, asked us 2 or 3 basic questions, professional but courteous. We invited them and they stayed for coffee and we chatted about deer, moose, bears, wolves. When they left they wished us luck. Never asked to see a single license. Its always been that way at our camp; no issues with the CO's.

Had the same experience this year, a member self reported a violation, they showed up, were great, issued a ticket out to him, answered a question or two about the regs and never asked to see the other members licenses. Very professional, well turned out, good guys.

I have the Deer Questionnaire mailed to me every year and I mail it in with my results, but I was always under the impression that it was a Mandatory report for all hunters to fill out and return. It may be for (MOOSE) as well as any other big game that can be harvested if you receive a Questionnaire from the MNR ?
Even though it does not say (MANDATORY) report...

I still find it difficult to understand how they could enforce this law. All one has to say is I mailed it and at that point they should not be able to lay a charge. Mail getting lost is pretty much a normal thing.

You are absolutely right GW. This can be disputed.
Would there be a MNR officer on this site forum...HELLO

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greatwhite

I still find it difficult to understand how they could enforce this law. All one has to say is I mailed it and at that point they should not be able to lay a charge. Mail getting lost is pretty much a normal thing.

---

There's always the possibilty that whether or not the ticket was issued depended on what the subject's initial answers to the CO's questions were from the get-go,too. If the subject is contrite and readily admits not filing the report,then,he gets the pre-written (in and of itself a big no-no) ticket. If he says "Yes,I did send the report in. I don't know why it wasn't recieved. Maybe,it's lost in the mail",any experienced CO would think twice before issueing a ticket which could wind up in Court when he can't prove it one way or the other. It's not up to the accused to prove himmself innocent,it's up to the CO to provide definitive proof that the offense was committed and these reports aren't rquired to be sent by registered mail. That would have been the tactic I used if it was me and I would have left the CO swingin' in the wind. If necessary,see ya in Court.

I think that when you get to the JP you have to swear,(on a bible or not), what you say is true. So are you willing to lie if you did not mail it is the question. Looked it up, less than a third of one % of mail ( 0.027) does not reach its destination in Canada.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

I think that when you get to the JP you have to swear,(on a bible or not), what you say is true. So are you willing to lie if you did not mail it is the question. Looked it up, less than a third of one % of mail ( 0.0027) does not reach its destination in Canada.

---

There's an element of doubt whether it's statistical fact or not,the benefit of doubt must always go to the accused.

But if you know you did not post it, you must lie in court and say you did. Is that owning up to your mistake? Just lie.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

There's an element of doubt whether it's statistical fact or not,the benefit of doubt must always go to the accused.

---

Even with summary summons?

But there is that percentage of mail that does not get through.
And that was his mail. So his lawyer would have no trouble with that and I believe that this case would be resolved very quickly.

He already said on here he did not mail it. He would have to go to court and lie. Would that be a real stand up guy, one willing to own up for their own actions? 99.975 of the time if he mailed it , there would be no CO at his door.

But were not going to be in court with him... SOOOOOOOO guess what ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishermccann

But if you know you did not post it, you must lie in court and say you did. Is that owning up to your mistake? Just lie.

---

Definitely would be a crisis of conscience for most people,besides being illegal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by B Wilson

Even with summary summons?

---

If one is willing to go to court,yes,absolutely.

Karma has no menu. You get served what you deserve.

You coming to the fondue party McCann ? Bring the Zinfadel.

Sure but I am more a Sauvignon Blanc kind of guy.

Nothing wrong with that.

But I usually follow it up with a few Jagermeister shots when the wine bottle is empty.

My kinda guy although Gilroy may be a little old for Jager .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trimmer21

There's an element of doubt whether it's statistical fact or not,the benefit of doubt must always go to the accused.

---

Hopefully next year it will be mandatory registered mail. Get them tickets ready

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by domination

I am going to frame the ticket and hang it up! So fare i think im the very first guy in this wmu to be fined for this!

---

Well now you are contradicting yourself. Either the co had a list of names and premade tickets to hand out to the hunters in your wmu OR none of your buddies you hunt with or the older guys you ask have ever heard of this and you are the first guy in the wmu to get a ticket. Sorry bud cant have ot both ways. Does it suck you caught a fine? Of course it does? Was the co in their right to ticket you? Definitely. Was he just doing his job? Absolutlely. Will you forget to report again? Probably not. It was an expensive lesson for sure but hopefully you wont forget in the future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guelph1981

Well now you are contradicting yourself. Either the co had a list of names and premade tickets to hand out to the hunters in your wmu OR none of your buddies you hunt with or the older guys you ask have ever heard of this and you are the first guy in the wmu to get a ticket. Sorry bud cant have ot both ways. Does it suck you caught a fine? Of course it does? Was the co in their right to ticket you? Definitely. Was he just doing his job? Absolutlely. Will you forget to report again? Probably not. It was an expensive lesson for sure but hopefully you wont forget in the future.

---

I dont know of anyone else being fined! I do beleve wath the CO said about there being a list and more tickets but he has not given me the names... I was the only one that had a tag this year out of the few guys i know that apply here in wmu 65. Here we have no party hunt or groups! you apply as an individual. I cant desagree with your other comments. On a moral view its not wright! deleberatly tracking douwn unsucsselfull hunters to fine them for a piece of paper that was not returned!!! The OPP and MTO have more moral then that!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

The only 'lazy' in this whole scenario is the guy who can't a few minutes to provide the MNR with answers to a few questions, as required.

---

Be carefully here!!! Deleberatly not reporting is Lazy maibe! Forgeting or thinking you did not yet receave the actual questionaire is not!
Between reporting for Bear,Deer, moose(exept for this year!),turky,fur harvest for trapping i still take time to collect wings and fethers for waterfowl surveys. So lazy i dont think so!!! Do all this for years, then get the book trown at you the first time you messe up is fustrating! especialy when its for not reporting a unsuccessfull hunt!!!!
I had every opertunity to lye to the CO to try and get out of it but i chose not to! I would think that should account for something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by domination

I dont know of anyone else being fined! I do beleve wath the CO said about there being a list and more tickets but he has not given me the names... I was the only one that had a tag this year out of the few guys i know that apply here in wmu 65. Here we have no party hunt or groups! you apply as an individual. I cant desagree with your other comments. On a moral view its not wright! deleberatly tracking douwn unsucsselfull hunters to fine them for a piece of paper that was not returned!!! The OPP and MTO have more moral then that!!!!

---

But the co that paid you a visit doesnt have a personal vendetta with you anymore than the opp officer that pulls you over and gives you a ticket for speeding does. And it has nothing to do with whether or not you had a successful hunt. If he indeed had a list of people to be fined like he told you then he doesnt know if the people getting tickets are successful or not same as he didnt know if you were successful or not until he knocked on your door to speak with you. And i dont think we can really call it a cash grab by the mnr when if everyone had reported as required there would have been zero fines to hand out. I understand you made an honest mistake and it stings but if you had looked at everything they sent you when they mailed your tag instead of just being happy you were successful in the draw then you would have known you already had your survey and im sure you would have filed it on time. Yeah it sucks getting dinged for an honest mistake like this but what can you do? You could fight it in court but then you are risking losing a days pay and still having to pay the fine at the end of it all. Btw sorry to hear you didnt bag a moose this year!

Thanks for the heads up. i have surveys on deer and bear, which I've postpone completing until after the muzzle-loading season. Today is the final day of the bear season.

You don't stop hunting because grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
-Gun Nut

Needs more exclamation points.

There are times when one absolutely should contest a charge even if it means losing a days pay. Many employers would let an employee off with a vacation or sick day to get it done.
Remember once you have a conviction on record, even if its POA then that makes a lot of noise if you get in a compromising situation again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sawbill

There are times when one absolutely should contest a charge even if it means losing a days pay..

---

And then there are times when you 'man up', pay the fine and move on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

And then there are times when you 'man up', pay the fine and move on.

---

Mike I would like to know if a police officer rang your door bell during dinner and asked you to list all the driving offences you committed over the last month, even something as small as going 5km over the speed limit and not coming a complete stop at a stop sign in the middle of night when there was no one even on the road(I say this as this is how petty of an act I think the OP is getting fined with) , so he can write some fines for you, I wonder if you would "MAN UP" or be like the rest of us and say you didn't even drive over the last month.

To the OP its easy for a lot of these people to act all righteous behind a keypad, I would take half of what they say as there true intentions and what they would really do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Gunner

To the OP its easy for a lot of these people to act all righteous behind a keypad, I would take half of what they say as there true intentions and what they would really do.

---

Don't know about the others but ya was cited once for something I thought was a ridiculous charge. Paid the fine and you know what my life hasn't changed one bit. The righteous seem balanced by the anarchist as to attitudes out there. Doesn't matter what they let slide in the past or what they may do in the future only matters in the now. If they decide something is a problem and needs to be nipped in the butt so be it. It takes a bigger person to admit fault and make restitution not so much if you try to find or place the blame on something/one else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Gunner

To the OP its easy for a lot of these people to act all righteous behind a keypad, I would take half of what they say as there true intentions and what they would really do.

---

If you going to play hypothetical scenerios, pick something that is closer to reality; if you get pulled over for not having your plates renewed by your birthday (ie no sticker)....do you take it to court to fight it because they sent you your renewal 3 months ago and didn't send a reminder ?

NO....the cop gives you a ticket, you pay the fine and move on...why would you argue it...it a rule that come with having 'tags'.

And that's not keyboard self-righteousness, it what is expected of us as responsible adults.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Gunner

Mike I would like to know if a police officer rang your door bell during dinner and asked you to list all the driving offences you committed over the last month, even something as small as going 5km over the speed limit and not coming a complete stop at a stop sign in the middle of night when there was no one even on the road(I say this as this is how petty of an act I think the OP is getting fined with) , so he can write some fines for you, I wonder if you would "MAN UP" or be like the rest of us and say you didn't even drive over the last month.

To the OP its easy for a lot of these people to act all righteous behind a keypad, I would take half of what they say as there true intentions and what they would really do.

---

I'd pay without complaint. One should not expect to break the law and get away with it. The OP was even presented with written notification of his need to complete the report which he promptly forgot about. Thats no ones fault but his own.

When you're the only one you know of who gets a mandatory report to fill out, you better damn well make sure you fill it out. The list of people COs have to check to ensure compliance is really short.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

If you going to play hypothetical scenerios, pick something that is closer to reality; if you get pulled over for not having your plates renewed by your birthday (ie no sticker)....do you take it to court to fight it because they sent you your renewal 3 months ago and didn't send a reminder ?

NO....the cop gives you a ticket, you pay the fine and move on...why would you argue it...it a rule that come with having 'tags'.

And that's not keyboard self-righteousness, it what is expected of us as responsible adults.

---

The Sticker ticket is deserved as it is in plan sight and you are caught, but the CO did not know weather he mailed it out or not, that's why I give you the example of the cop knocking on your door.

So would you be responsible adult or not? Just as you would with the MNRF according to you, you should call the local police station and tell them that you didn't come to a complete stop at such intersection, and you will going down to the station to pick up your fine. because that is "what is expected of us as responsible adults"

I agree with everyone he should have filled out the report and send it in that's a for sure, but for him to get fined for a first offence, that is stupid. I would have said I mailed it. As he has stated he seems to do a lot more then 90% of the people with regards to reports, sending in wings and feathers.
Some of you are going at this as if he poached and shot a rino. He didn't fill out a piece of paper that's all.

It sounds like some of us don't see the difference between "Been a sheep" and "Manning up". Actually it seems like they see it backward...... If we just obey by the rules, never argue or fight them we are going to end up with no guns, no bear baiting and you name it......

To me, 180$ for not returning a mandatory report is excessive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Gunner

The Sticker ticket is deserved as it is in plan sight and you are caught, but the CO did not know weather he mailed it out or not, that's why I give you the example of the cop knocking on your door.

---

Well the mandatory survey they sent with his moose tag would have been in plain sight as well so by your logic he deserved the ticket he got. And why would the cops go knocking on peoples doors to ask about driving infractions? That makes zero sense. Also why would anyone call the police and tell them they didnt come to a complete stop so they want to come pick up a fine? Nothing like that is even close to what happened with the op. They obviously knew he hadnt submitted his survey on time as required its not like they were going around knocking on random doors of everyone that applied in wmu 65. I expect they would do that about as much as i would expect a random cop showing up at my door asking me to confess if ive broken any driving laws. Never going to happen.

This was my response to peoples response to they couldn't be leave that someone would tell the co that they had mailed it and must have got lost in the mail. and not "Man Up"

My survey was bundled with junk mail in the envelope. Normally I would have thrown it out. To expect me to look through junk mail to see if they hid something is not reasonable at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guelph1981

Well the mandatory survey they sent with his moose tag would have been in plain sight as well so by your logic he deserved the ticket he got. And why would the cops go knocking on peoples doors to ask about driving infractions? That makes zero sense. Also why would anyone call the police and tell them they didnt come to a complete stop so they want to come pick up a fine? Nothing like that is even close to what happened with the op. They obviously knew he hadnt submitted his survey on time as required its not like they were going around knocking on random doors of everyone that applied in wmu 65. I expect they would do that about as much as i would expect a random cop showing up at my door asking me to confess if ive broken any driving laws. Never going to happen.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greatwhite

My survey was bundled with junk mail in the envelope. Normally I would have thrown it out. To expect me to look through junk mail to see if they hid something is not reasonable at all.

---

So did you find the tag hidden as well? You managed to find that one I guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Gunner

This was my response to peoples response to they couldn't be leave that someone would tell the co that they had mailed it and must have got lost in the mail. and not "Man Up"

---

Not to worry next year it will be registered mail to catch irresponsible liars.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Gunner

This was my response to peoples response to they couldn't be leave that someone would tell the co that they had mailed it and must have got lost in the mail. and not "Man Up"

---

(reiterating, yet again, the fine was generated by Head office and the CO was just delivering in person to confirm the spelling etc)

So, you forget to mail it in...your admitted fault, but you think you should fight it on principle, because you don't think the issue warrants a fine. So not to look like a 'sheep' you'd be willing to go into a court of law and stand before a judge and tell him that "you mailed it and it must have got lost in the mail"..a bold face lie.

Yea....I think I'll man-up, pay the fine and move on...I think that is more honourable than lying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greatwhite

To expect me to look through junk mail to see if they hid something is not reasonable at all.

---

So GW, what do you do when the MoT sends you your vehicle license renewal and it shows in with all the junk mail..do you just toss it too :)

Haven't gotten one of those in years, I just know that I have to go get a renewal on my birthday every year.

One year I think I did throw out my deer tag or I never received it had to go and get a replacement.

About 95% of my mail is junk mail so I just quickly scan it and toss it. Accidentally threw out a birthday card from my parents to my wife which had a 5o dollar check in it according to my Dad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

So GW, what do you do when the MoT sends you your vehicle license renewal and it shows in with all the junk mail..do you just toss it too :)

---

I would suggest that the information the MNRF gets from the mandatory WMU 65 survey must be important to management of the moose herd, hence the mandatory nature, and quite likely the fines for not submitting the survey. Most other surveys are not mandatory.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rick_iles

I would suggest that the information the MNRF gets from the mandatory WMU 65 survey must be important to management of the moose herd, hence the mandatory nature, and quite likely the fines for not submitting the survey. Most other surveys are not mandatory.

---

Why bother with mandatory paper hunter surveys when they have their very accurate aerial moose surveys?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by B Wilson

Why bother with mandatory paper hunter surveys when they have their very accurate aerial moose surveys?

---

Yea....don't get me started on that one !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikePal

(reiterating, yet again, the fine was generated by Head office and the CO was just delivering in person to confirm the spelling etc)

So, you forget to mail it in...your admitted fault, but you think you should fight it on principle, because you don't think the issue warrants a fine. So not to look like a 'sheep' you'd be willing to go into a court of law and stand before a judge and tell him that "you mailed it and it must have got lost in the mail"..a bold face lie.

Yea....I think I'll man-up, pay the fine and move on...I think that is more honourable than lying.

---

Well said and anything more would be just......
http://www.lakesimcoeoutdoors.com/fo...cons/horse.gif
got nothing more for this one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

So did you find the tag hidden as well? You managed to find that one I guess.

---

This is the exact point right here. If the op had taken a moment to look through the envelope he would have seen his survey already in there and saw it was mandatory reporting by a certain date after the hunt ended. The co was obviously given a list of names of people that failed to report and went about his business to find out why. The op stated he told the co he was waiting for it to come in the mail at which point he was informed that no he already has the survey and didnt submit so here is your ticket. Also i am sure he would have written down somewhere the reasoning why it was not submitted so to turn up in court and then claim you mailed it you dont know what happened isnt going to look very good changing your story all of a sudden. Plus who is to say the co wasnt acting with their own discretion here? We only got one side of the story here. The first few posts from the op it was plain to see he was.....upset to say the least. Maybe the co was willing to cut him a break but he let his emotions at the time ruin that for him. We dont know we werent there. I do believe that it was an honest mistake on the part of the op and it sucks to get nailed for something you didnt even realize you did wrong especially when all of it could have been avoided by simply checking through the papers that were in the envelope the tag came in. Keep what you need and toss the junk mail.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by finsfurfeathers

Well said and anything more would be just......
http://www.lakesimcoeoutdoors.com/fo...cons/horse.gif
got nothing more for this one.

---

'moi aussi' ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guelph1981

This is the exact point right here. If the op had taken a moment to look through the envelope he would have seen his survey already in there and saw it was mandatory reporting by a certain date after the hunt ended. The co was obviously given a list of names of people that failed to report and went about his business to find out why. The op stated he told the co he was waiting for it to come in the mail at which point he was informed that no he already has the survey and didnt submit so here is your ticket. Also i am sure he would have written down somewhere the reasoning why it was not submitted so to turn up in court and then claim you mailed it you dont know what happened isnt going to look very good changing your story all of a sudden. Plus who is to say the co wasnt acting with their own discretion here? We only got one side of the story here. The first few posts from the op it was plain to see he was.....upset to say the least. Maybe the co was willing to cut him a break but he let his emotions at the time ruin that for him. We dont know we werent there. I do believe that it was an honest mistake on the part of the op and it sucks to get nailed for something you didnt even realize you did wrong especially when all of it could have been avoided by simply checking through the papers that were in the envelope the tag came in. Keep what you need and toss the junk mail.

---

You are a very bad judge of carector and got your facts a mixed up! I you think everyone is a liar when they say something, it usually means something! Entertaining but way off!

If you can follow the rules, then don't hunt. Period. If you think the laws are unjust then work to change the laws....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by domination

You are a very bad judge of carector and got your facts a mixed up! I you think everyone is a liar when they say something, it usually means something! Entertaining but way off!

---

What facts are those exactly? I never accused you of being a liar at all. In fact if you go back and read that post again i think you will see i very clearly said i do believe you made an honest mistake. I never said you were going to go to court and change your story to it got lost in the mail i said it wouldnt look for you if you were to do that. And as for what i said about a co might have cut you a break if not for your attitude....well he might have he might not have nobody including yourself knows. You may have been really polite and respectful the whole time and still got the fine but if you acted anything like you did when you came on here ranting would you really expect anyone to give you a break? Bottom line here is you messed up, you got caught and now you are butt hurt over the situation. If you took the couple minutes to look at what was sent to you instead of just grabbing your tag and disregarding the rest you would not be in this situation you created for yourself.

Can you post a picture of your ticket.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blacklab

Can you post a picture of your ticket.

---

Sorry but its got a little more info on there then i wish to put on a public site.

I understand that just block out the personal info.. I would really like to see this fine. Whats the offers name or badge number

well what can you expect from a "nanny" state? stupidity is the order of the day, and today is no different. First they cut the moose tags because of poor management, then fine people who they gather information from. But to waste monies with an officer coming to your door???? WTF!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guelph1981

This is the exact point right here. If the op had taken a moment to look through the envelope he would have seen his survey already in there and saw it was mandatory reporting by a certain date after the hunt ended. The co was obviously given a list of names of people that failed to report and went about his business to find out why. The op stated he told the co he was waiting for it to come in the mail at which point he was informed that no he already has the survey and didnt submit so here is your ticket. Also i am sure he would have written down somewhere the reasoning why it was not submitted so to turn up in court and then claim you mailed it you dont know what happened isnt going to look very good changing your story all of a sudden. Plus who is to say the co wasnt acting with their own discretion here? We only got one side of the story here. The first few posts from the op it was plain to see he was.....upset to say the least. Maybe the co was willing to cut him a break but he let his emotions at the time ruin that for him. We dont know we werent there. I do believe that it was an honest mistake on the part of the op and it sucks to get nailed for something you didnt even realize you did wrong especially when all of it could have been avoided by simply checking through the papers that were in the envelope the tag came in. Keep what you need and toss the junk mail.

---

Looking at my surveys, deer and moose which I received about 2 weeks ago. They do not say anything about a mandatory reporting date. They do say "At the end of your moose hunting activity for the year please....". To me you should have at least to the end of the open season. I'm not filling my deer survey out until the new year.

My wolf and bear said mandatory reporting on them. Deer no.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rippin_355

Looking at my surveys, deer and moose which I received about 2 weeks ago. They do not say anything about a mandatory reporting date. They do say "At the end of your moose hunting activity for the year please....". To me you should have at least to the end of the open season. I'm not filling my deer survey out until the new year.

---

Pages and pages back I mentioned the same thing and I believe he said his survey was WMU specific and due at the end of October.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Phoenix

well what can you expect from a "nanny" state? stupidity is the order of the day, and today is no different. First they cut the moose tags because of poor management, then fine people who they gather information from. But to waste monies with an officer coming to your door???? WTF!!!

---

Nanny state? Isn't that the point of the whole thread. We should not need a Nanny to fulfill an obligation that you volunteered for right?
If you need a Nanny its gonna cost you 180 bucks.

Quote:

---

then fine people who they gather information from

---

No, they fined the people that they weren't getting information from.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redd foxx

No, they fined the people that they weren't getting information from.

---

No, they can only fine certain people..... Not everyone need to play by the same rules

Some units have mandatory reports for moose, some dont. The thread starters unit did.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rippin_355

Looking at my surveys, deer and moose which I received about 2 weeks ago. They do not say anything about a mandatory reporting date. They do say "At the end of your moose hunting activity for the year please....". To me you should have at least to the end of the open season. I'm not filling my deer survey out until the new year.

---

Quote:

---

No, they can only fine certain people

---

Is this thread not about a unit where reporting is mandatory. That is what me response was related to. Sorry if it was misunderstood.