Right Wrong Or indifferent

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May 1st, 2020, 10:58 PM
Couliewalker

Right Wrong Or indifferent

This is a dark day in Cdn history.I have never been so disappointed in our political system.Right,wrong,or indifferent,how can a leader of a democracy which he has sworn to uphold ,sweep aside that very democracy which started over 150 years ago just like that.Irregardless of his intentions,we have protocols.
How many of us knew a minority leader even had the power. If you think this is merely about gun control you are totally missing the point.Whats on the next list? 8 cylinder cars,they pollute too much.
Why are Indigenous people exempt?
Trudeau says they use them for hunting.He also says the guns on his list are only made to kill people.
Which is it.?
Remember Oka.Maybe those people still have those AK's they showed on the news.
Maybe Trudeau knows they wont give them up so paciflly as the rest of us sheep.
May 2nd, 2020, 12:05 AM
fishfood

Just another kick in the face to Canadians.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk
May 2nd, 2020, 06:18 AM
JBen

Nicely said.

Everyone, is allowed their opinions. Freedom always cuts both ways.

It staggers me, people are overlooking this aspect. Both here on the forums, and out there in society.

The email I fired off to the Liberal party, and JT focused on this. Made it clear, I would be talking to every single moderate/centrist I knew. Not about the ban. About the abuse of power, undermining of democracy. And this isn’t the first time.
May 2nd, 2020, 06:52 AM
Badenoch

Here's how democracy works: Trudeau campaigned on a gun ban, was elected and is now doing it. The Criminal Code, also duly passed by a democratically-elected government, has provisions in it to prohibit firearms by regulation and Trudeau has used the regulations like previous governments before him.

If you want to be taken seriously save the overwrought drama queen routine. It's not a "dark day for Canada," a "kick in the face to all Canadians," nor is it an "abuse of power" or "undermining democracy."
May 2nd, 2020, 07:14 AM
fishermccann

Well said. ^^^^:)
May 2nd, 2020, 07:37 AM
Couliewalker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

Here's how democracy works: Trudeau campaigned on a gun ban, was elected and is now doing it. The Criminal Code, also duly passed by a democratically-elected government, has provisions in it to prohibit firearms by regulation and Trudeau has used the regulations like previous governments before him.

If you want to be taken seriously save the overwrought drama queen routine. It's not a "dark day for Canada," a "kick in the face to all Canadians," nor is it an "abuse of power" or "undermining democracy."

The overwrought drama is exactly what Trudeau is using.His timing is perfect.His reasonings are fictious
A debate in parliament would have smoked out the truth.How will this make us safer?
How does this disarm criminals.How would this have prevented the NS shootings?Those guns were illegal and the shooter was prohibited from owning firearms since 2001!! Whose using drama ?..
Look closely at Gun control since 1977 to now.Fac ,storage laws,registration etc.
If it worked why are police who carried 6 shot revolvers prior to 1977 now carry bullet proof vests and semi auto pistols and assault rifles.How do you explain that? They are looking in the wrong place for the answers.Crime doesn't come out of my gun safe, or yours,so stop looking there.But these banned guns do.Trudeau told the BBC you dont need an assault rifle to kill deer.
Firstly most of those guns were already restricted,couldn't be used for deer hunting.
Secondly,when did he ever deer hunt.
Thirdly when his next list comes out and our "Deer rifles" are on it he will simply say We dont need to shoot deer period.
.Its about transparency and accountability.
He did not get the popular vote,the conservatives did.
Canadians did speak at the last election.WE gave the Liberals a Minority Government.We did not give him Dictatorial powers.How many Canadians knew he could do what he did On his own.
I didnt.Did anyone else?
Drama,hes full of it.
May 2nd, 2020, 07:43 AM
Bluebulldog

Based on the the recent move that the Federal Government has made with regard to banning certain firearms, and their variants, I can offer the following comments / observations.

This is not about crime reduction. This is about optics. The information about gun crime has been readily available to policy makers. Its analysis is quite easy to perform.

The hue and cry from gun owners which came immediately following the news was not unexpected, nor was it counter to what anyone expected the narrative to be. What is disappointing, is just that...it is the same as it always has been.

There is a very large group of legal, lawful gun owners in this country. By extension we are also the most law abiding and aware portion of the public.

We need to change the narrative.

Arguing from a "Yeah, but..", or the "but what about...?" Is juvenile, and pedantic. The "No Compromise" narrative on some of the more militant groups ( NFA) is another which can be viewed as counter productive.

We need to have discussions around what gun ownership looks like. We need to develop awareness and understanding, and bring that forward. Our gun lobby had an opportunity post NS incident to get out in front, and make a statement in absence of any other info coming from the RCMP and the Feds. *crickets*.

We can all agree gun ownership in Canada will never look like it does in the US ( we don't have it as a guaranteed right for one). We also can't seek it. As the gun culture in the US is the main reason for illegal gun crime in Canada.

The conversation needs to change.

I have a saying I learned years ago, and it applies well:

"If you can't defend your position effectively, you need to change, or abandon your position".

This doesn't mean give up, but in the vernacular of the Army, a flanking maneuver will often succeed where a direct assault will not.

We as gun owners have been so focused on the direct "assaults" that we are being flanked, and outflanked. Still we focus on loopholes, and banking on a firearms system that catches some things, but then rejoice when an FRT # is given to a variant. We need to flip the script.

We are better than the juvenile whining that is taking place across social media platforms, let's start by acting like it.
May 2nd, 2020, 07:49 AM
fishermccann

BBD. very nice post.
May 2nd, 2020, 07:58 AM
JBen

You are allowed your opinions.

I might remind you both ( world of difference in telling you your “wrong”)That they took a beating. And are a

Minority government.
May 2nd, 2020, 08:01 AM
Bluebulldog

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBen

You are allowed your opinions.

I might remind you both ( world of difference in telling you your “wrong”)

That they took a beating. And are a

Minority governemnt

2 year amnesty.

Minority government.

OIC, which means it only puts measures in place immediately, but must be debated in HOC in order to become law.

Election in that period.
May 2nd, 2020, 08:05 AM
JBen

That is true.
It does not change the facts.....They do not have the mandate.

And another fact, no matter the topic, issue. The next admin can repeal it. Whether that’s a registry, taxation or capital punishment.
May 2nd, 2020, 08:13 AM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

Based on the the recent move that the Federal Government has made with regard to banning certain firearms, and their variants, I can offer the following comments / observations.

This is not about crime reduction. This is about optics. The information about gun crime has been readily available to policy makers. Its analysis is quite easy to perform.

The hue and cry from gun owners which came immediately following the news was not unexpected, nor was it counter to what anyone expected the narrative to be. What is disappointing, is just that...it is the same as it always has been.

There is a very large group of legal, lawful gun owners in this country. By extension we are also the most law abiding and aware portion of the public.

We need to change the narrative.

Arguing from a "Yeah, but..", or the "but what about...?" Is juvenile, and pedantic. The "No Compromise" narrative on some of the more militant groups ( NFA) is another which can be viewed as counter productive.

We need to have discussions around what gun ownership looks like. We need to develop awareness and understanding, and bring that forward. Our gun lobby had an opportunity post NS incident to get out in front, and make a statement in absence of any other info coming from the RCMP and the Feds. *crickets*.

We can all agree gun ownership in Canada will never look like it does in the US ( we don't have it as a guaranteed right for one). We also can't seek it. As the gun culture in the US is the main reason for illegal gun crime in Canada.

The conversation needs to change.

I have a saying I learned years ago, and it applies well:

"If you can't defend your position effectively, you need to change, or abandon your position".

This doesn't mean give up, but in the vernacular of the Army, a flanking maneuver will often succeed where a direct assault will not.

We as gun owners have been so focused on the direct "assaults" that we are being flanked, and outflanked. Still we focus on loopholes, and banking on a firearms system that catches some things, but then rejoice when an FRT # is given to a variant. We need to flip the script.

We are better than the juvenile whining that is taking place across social media platforms, let's start by acting like it.

Agree with all the above but as much as sensible gun owners might try to change the narrative I believe the cranky, angry minority will continue to dominate the discussion with rallying cries of "No Compromise - No Compliance" and making inflammatory and inaccurate protestations about democracy, rights and other related gibberish. The Liberals and antis have and will continue to hold up the minority as representative of all gun owners.

Before we can change the public narrative we would have to clean up our own house and purge the ranks of gun owners of some very unsavoury elements. A quick visit to the on-line sewer called Canadian Gunnutz and it quickly becomes evident that it's a formidable task. For every 10 sensible gun owners in Canada there's a Gunputz screaming "Molon Labe."
May 2nd, 2020, 08:16 AM
terrym

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

Agree with all the above but as much as sensible gun owners might try to change the narrative I believe the cranky, angry minority will continue to dominate the discussion with rallying cries of "No Compromise - No Compliance" and making inflammatory and inaccurate protestations about democracy, rights and other related gibberish. The Liberals and antis have and will continue to hold up the minority as representative of all gun owners.

Before we can change the public narrative we would have to clean up our own house and purge the ranks of gun owners of some very unsavoury elements. A quick visit to the on-line sewer called Canadian Gunnutz and it quickly becomes evident that it's a formidable task. For every 10 sensible gun owners in Canada there's a Gunputz screaming "Molon Labe."

“Online Sewer” ???? You have just called many good people excrement. Hey if you fantasize about licking Tru-dough clean that’s your right but soon you will have less of those rights too under that crooked liar.
May 2nd, 2020, 08:21 AM
Bluebulldog

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrym

“Online Sewer” ???? You have just called many good people excrement. Hey if you fantasize about licking Tru-dough clean that’s your right but soon you will less if those rights too under that crooked liar.

Wade in..

There are a lot of gun owners with zero maturity.

Remember, the only real check in getting your PAL is having kept your nose clean.

Many of whom do the pro-gun side no service by not being capable of intelligent discourse, nor being able to differentiate that we have a Charter, whereas the US has a Constitution, and the two documents aren't the same.
May 2nd, 2020, 08:33 AM
terrym

Many more people don’t have the maturity to consume alcohol or drive automobiles safely. I personally know 2 people who were killed by drunk drivers a cousin and a guy I went to school with. If it’s really about saving lives ( which everybody knows it’s not) then alcohol sales need to be shut down immediately. Virtue signalling by a corrupt Administration who don’t have the balls to debate this in the house. Trudough fired a Justice minister who wouldn’t collaborate in absolving SNC who were on record of buying prostitutes for Kadaffi’s son. Trudough endorses that behaviour by assisting them. This government is inept and corrupt. This will only get worse.
May 2nd, 2020, 08:37 AM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrym

“Online Sewer” ???? You have just called many good people excrement. Hey if you fantasize about licking Tru-dough clean that’s your right but soon you will have less of those rights too under that crooked liar.

Online sewer is a good description of a site that tolerates homophobic, misogynist, islamaphobic, racist opinions and turns a blind eye to posts promoting illegal activity.
May 2nd, 2020, 08:38 AM
Bluebulldog

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrym

Many more people don’t have the maturity to consume alcohol or drive automobiles safely. I personally know 2 people who were killed by drunk drivers a cousin and a guy I went to school with. If it’s really about saving lives ( which everybody knows it’s not) then alcohol sales need to be shut down immediately. Virtue signalling by a corrupt Administration who don’t have the balls to debate this in the house. Trudough fired a Justice minister who wouldn’t collaborate in absolving SNC who were on record of buying prostitutes for Kadaffi’s son. Trudough endorses that behaviour by assisting them. This government is inept and corrupt. This will only get worse.

Terry, I value our discussions. I do.

It is precisely the "What about drinking and driving" that I'm talking about. It's a poor position to argue from, and it devalues the gun debate when it's brought into it. We tend to pounce on deflection when an opposing viewpoint uses it for the same reasons.

One difference. The only similarity in guns and cars is that you need a license to operate them. The Canadian public regards automobile transport as an essential, to daily life. Gun ownership is not regarded as such. And unless you're in James Bay, hunting for sustenance, the argument falls flat on its face based on that premise.

This is what I'm saying.....same old arguments.....same old outcomes.
May 2nd, 2020, 08:39 AM
JBen

Isn’t that always a problem. BBD? Whether the topic is hunting and poaching, angling and hooligans, or Covid and Social Distancing. It’s always the few.

I won’t say much on this turn than how is classifying a group as cavemen, any different than classifying all immigrants as terrorist. Or people who object to irregular immigrants as xenophobic. They too, are allowed their opinions.

Your very astute post said we need to change our approach. Find different ways to make our case. It always cuts both ways....

For me, we know “what the problem” is. Soft on crime policy and law enforcement.
Gun smuggling, drug smuggling. Organized Crime. We can even include human trafficking as another big, growing problem.

Perhaps if we can convince the moderates, and even some dyed in the wool antis, to scream more about that, than bans. They would do better jobs, and spend less time, money and resources on a distraction from the issues and their own failings.
May 2nd, 2020, 08:50 AM
Bluebulldog

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBen

Isn’t that always a problem. BBD? Whether the topic is hunting and poaching, angling and hooligans, or Covid and Social Distancing. It’s always the few.

I won’t say much on this turn than how is classifying a group as cavemen, any different than classifying all immigrants as terrorist. Or people who object to irregular immigrants as xenophobic.

Your very astute post said we need to change our approach. Find different ways to make our case. It always cuts both ways....

For me, we know “what the problem” is. Soft on crime policy and law enforcement.
Gun smuggling, drug smuggling. Organized Crime. We can even include human trafficking as another big, growing problem.

Perhaps if we can convince the moderates, and even some dyed in the wool antis, to scream more about that, than bans. They would do better jobs, and spend less time, money and resources on a distraction from the issues and their own failings.

Immediate thoughts for starters?

We need a single identifiable gun lobby / group in this country.

Say what you will, but being fragmented is killing us. Having organizations like the NFA, which basically imploded under it's own executive drama, and having the less moderate ( read more extreme) gravitate towards it, isn't optimal.

CCFR, might be the pony to hitch the wagon to. But we need ONE.

While there may be some disagreement on the NRA and it's mandate in the US, it has always remained the voice of firearms owners in the US.

We also need to shut down the discourse that makes us sound like the "Green Mountain Militia". A bunch of keyboard warriors who at their core know that despite all the online posturing, they wouldn't last a night in jail, and will fold.

We have two years to take this seriously. Get our collective heads together, and change things. I respectfully suggest that we get cracking.
May 2nd, 2020, 08:52 AM
Snowwalker

This will not sit well with Provinces west of Ontario, or the Territories.
Remember, all they need is a 51% vote and Canada loses most of it's Natural Resources .
If that happened do you think Northern Ontario or Quebec would want to stay in Canada? How about the Northern Territories?
Ontario, Quebec and the Eastern Provinces can have all the Liberal policies they want.
May 2nd, 2020, 08:52 AM
terrym

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

Terry, I value our discussions. I do.

It is precisely the "What about drinking and driving" that I'm talking about. It's a poor position to argue from, and it devalues the gun debate when it's brought into it. We tend to pounce on deflection when an opposing viewpoint uses it for the same reasons.

One difference. The only similarity in guns and cars is that you need a license to operate them. The Canadian public regards automobile transport as an essential, to daily life. Gun ownership is not regarded as such. And unless you're in James Bay, hunting for sustenance, the argument falls flat on its face based on that premise. The racist double standard of allowing First Nations to still own them is indefensible. If licensed owners don’t need them to hunt neither do the FN. in fact that demographic would never pass FAC scrutiny in many cases.

This is what I'm saying.....same old arguments.....same old outcomes.

Valid points but, the reasoning from the gun grabbers is guns aren’t a necessity. Well neither are corvettes, porches and many other cars. Alcohol is not a life sustaining beverage the human body needs. Governments consider the LCBO as an essential service but it’s not. The government got into selling dope. Again it’s not needed. It’s not even healthy. The justifications for this are false. It will not change the fact that gangs carry illegal weapons and will continue to.
May 2nd, 2020, 08:56 AM
canadaman30

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrym

Many more people don’t have the maturity to consume alcohol or drive automobiles safely. I personally know 2 people who were killed by drunk drivers a cousin and a guy I went to school with. If it’s really about saving lives ( which everybody knows it’s not) then alcohol sales need to be shut down immediately. Virtue signalling by a corrupt Administration who don’t have the balls to debate this in the house. Trudough fired a Justice minister who wouldn’t collaborate in absolving SNC who were on record of buying prostitutes for Kadaffi’s son. Trudough endorses that behaviour by assisting them. This government is inept and corrupt. This will only get worse.

Agreed and its disgusting how many support Trudeau for committing illegal acts. To support a corrupt leader is about as low as it gets.
May 2nd, 2020, 09:02 AM
JBen

Agreed Steve. As I said in your wall. That’s why I won’t join them. I’d rather try and be part of the solution than the problem. But like anyone, they are allowed to think, say, feel whatever they want.

Until anything better comes along I rely on the OFAH. It too is not perfect, but is moderate and reasonable.
May 2nd, 2020, 09:33 AM
sidelock

Remember there are many thing we thought would never happen.
.https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...krEZ1Ydh9TK21J
May 2nd, 2020, 10:00 AM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidelock

Remember there are many thing we thought would never happen.
.https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...krEZ1Ydh9TK21J

This is a good example of the sort of inflammatory and juvenile posts that do not help change the narrative and only reinforce the stereotypes.

The only people who will lose their guns due to the new regulations are those are the people who choose to give them up. The government has committed to a "grandfathering regime" for people who wish to keep them or "fair market compensation" for those who don't.
May 2nd, 2020, 10:34 AM
canadaman30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

This is a good example of the sort of inflammatory and juvenile posts that do not help change the narrative and only reinforce the stereotypes.

It's historical truth and if you dont like it then I guess the truth hurts for some. It's called dictatorship, theres a reason dictators/communist take guns away from their people.
May 2nd, 2020, 10:43 AM
mosquito

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidelock

Remember there are many thing we thought would never happen.
.https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...krEZ1Ydh9TK21J

Well, just remember that Trudeau and his praise for Castro and his admiration for China, a government that had tanks run over students, is building it's military like crazy, including building islands and then claiming the area around them, lied and covered up about a world pandemic, when the doctors warned about the Wuhan Pneumonia they just disappeared, and if you believe what I have heard from people I know that have family there told the regions to stop counting and then celebrated when they conquered the virus ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZHUhfmlzXk

“A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices” - George Orwell

More and more by the Liberal parties propensity to lie brazenly and their irrational and ideologue attitudes of those willing to support them and groups like ANTIFA that in voice and action fits the old National Socialist brown shirts... they even dress in black like the Gestapo... Well trust is easily granted but after dozens of lies, coverups, ethics violations to still trust this government makes them an accomplice or an ideologue and when you look at history always remember Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot... they weren't solo acts like the Nova Scotia gunman.

Brian Lilley put it this way.
https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...lse-gun-agenda
"Not a single argument the Trudeau Liberals put forward to support their new policies stands up to any scrutiny.

If their entire argument is that they don’t like civilians owning guns, even if they aren’t committing crimes, then they should say so.

That the mostly cowardly media questioning them wouldn’t raise a fuss on a single one of their lies speaks volumes about their own particular bias."

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadaman30

It's historical truth and if you dont like it then I guess the truth hurts for some. It's called dictatorship, theres a reason dictators/communist take guns away from their people.

BING BING.... correct answer! Hence the saying those that don't study history are doomed to repeat it. But remember those that want to repeat history for profit or power or agenda don't want you to learn and work together and definitely not think! They will also hate those that do, you can see that in Dietrich Bonhoeffer, one of the last acts before the end was to make sure he was executed, it is one of the books on my to read pile....just finishing Robert Spencer's book on Jihad, next is about the secret squadron's of Mosquito and then it is probably about 4 or 5. Many groups think in terms of decades or even generation while so many today are ignorant of that and think of a week from Tuesday at the farthest ahead!
May 2nd, 2020, 10:59 AM
JBen

The “issue” with grandfathering and “fair market value”..

Who gets to determine FMV? The Feds? Please...ask anyone that’s had land expropriated.

And what happens to said value, the day everyone discovers (yesterday) they are no more than paper weights? So while it’s true they are committed to those things....Raise your hand if you’d pay more than nickel today for any of them
May 2nd, 2020, 11:21 AM
js4fn

Right now no one should know what guns you have if you been smart
Grandfather them guess what they know exactly who has what and where
May 2nd, 2020, 11:35 AM
sidelock

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

This is a good example of the sort of inflammatory and juvenile posts that do not help change the narrative and only reinforce the stereotypes.

The only people who will lose their guns due to the new regulations are those are the people who choose to give them up. The government has committed to a "grandfathering regime" for people who wish to keep them or "fair market compensation" for those who don't.

"Inflammatory Juvenile post ?" what is juvenile is the refusal and unwillingness to accept reality ! Are you denying it never happened or that it can't happen again, because either way you are completely wrong. Dictatorship, tyranny and oppressive governments start by taking away people's freedom one little bit at a time and gradually abuse their power until it's too late to do something about it.
May 2nd, 2020, 12:05 PM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidelock

"Inflammatory Juvenile post ?" what is juvenile is the refusal and unwillingness to accept reality ! Are you denying it never happened or that it can't happen again, because either way you are completely wrong. Dictatorship, tyranny and oppressive governments start by taking away people's freedom one little bit at a time and gradually abuse their power until it's too late to do something about it.

Once even a handful of gun owners respond with gibberish about "dictatorship and tyranny" and that Nazi Germany, etc., can "happen again" we've lost any hope of marshalling a convincing argument with rational thinking people who don't own guns. Attempts to change the current narrative about gun ownership in Canada becomes hopeless.

Time for a beer. Molson Labe!
May 2nd, 2020, 12:16 PM
sidelock

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

Once even a handful of gun owners respond with gibberish about "dictatorship and tyranny" and that Nazi Germany, etc., can "happen again" we've lost any hope of marshalling a convincing argument with rational thinking people who don't own guns. Attempts to change the current narrative about gun ownership in Canada becomes hopeless.

Time for a beer. Molson Labe!

So dictatorship, tyranny etc is gibberish in your opinion. Well let me ask you this RATIONAL question. Did you ever think or conceive that you would see the day you are not allowed or would not be able to go to certain places or communities in your own country you were born because they are occupied by Muslims ? Perhaps you can enlighten us and describe how that was allowed to happen. How did that start and come about ? Did you loose hope marshalling that argument with your rationale.
May 2nd, 2020, 12:30 PM
terrym

Quote:

Originally Posted by js4fn

Right now no one should know what guns you have if you been smart
Grandfather them guess what they know exactly who has what and where

Many on the list were already restricted so registered already. If you’re a First Nations now you all of a sudden need an AR to hunt with in Trudough’s world. Nobody else needs one to hunt but apparently the Indians do? Wait for the Métis to soon be granted that exception.
May 2nd, 2020, 12:39 PM
jaycee

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrym

Many on the list were already restricted so registered already. If you’re a First Nations now you all of a sudden need an AR to hunt with in Trudough’s world. Nobody else needs one to hunt but apparently the Indians do? Wait for the Métis to soon be granted that exception.

Trudope used the word indigenous, are the Metis , not included in this description ?, as they already seem to have the same privileges.
May 2nd, 2020, 01:03 PM
trimmer21

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBen

You are allowed your opinions.

I might remind you both ( world of difference in telling you your “wrong”)That they took a beating. And are a

Minority government.

Minority government is in name,only. When a combined vote is counted with the other parties,the Liberals have a de facto majority. We can count on the NDP and the Greens to vote in lock step,especially,when the Liberals play "let's make a deal" with labor and environmental issues that both parties salivate over. Chances of defeating this "minority" are slim to none. There simply isn't enough votes on the right to defeat the Liberals in a non-confidence vote pertaining specifically to the gun ban issue. Something really catastrophic will need to happen before the opposition could convince the other parties to vote with them. We're stuck with this for the foreseeable future. It remains to be seen how much further the liberals intend to take this,but,I think it's fair to say that they aren't anywhere near finished,yet. The worst is yet to come. It could very well have nothing further to do with firearms.
May 2nd, 2020, 01:18 PM
Snowwalker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

This is a good example of the sort of inflammatory and juvenile posts that do not help change the narrative and only reinforce the stereotypes.

The only people who will lose their guns due to the new regulations are those are the people who choose to give them up. The government has committed to a "grandfathering regime" for people who wish to keep them or "fair market compensation" for those who don't.

Be sure to tell us how much you get for yours. Since they are illegal to own, I would say the fair market value would be the weight of the steel at best.
May 2nd, 2020, 01:59 PM
JBen

That is true Terry. I always kind of chuckle when “that’s the way it works is used”. It’s not. And if it was Ford could swing a very heavy axe, and when the Unions howl. The answer would simply be. Suck it up buttercup, that’s how democracy works..

I’m not 100% sure the others would have agreed. The bloc owes its success to Québécois. There’s already a lot of opposition to things there.

There are two issues here at play. The ban, and the outright abuse of power. I wouldn’t not be surprised if the center of the electorate ( the greater numbers) are far far more concerned about that. Even if lukewarm or unconvinced a ban will accomplish anything.
They took a beating over SNC and abuse of power. There’s the recent grab at powers when this started.

The right
The gun lobby (if they are smart)
And us.

Will beat them silly over that. Not the ban, that’s secondary
And this very well could topple them. And any of the other parties if they are stupid enough could feel the backlash as well

some MPs in Alberta have already started. And Kenney to is firing salvos about it. This in the end could be the end of the Liberals. Just depends on how it’s played.

https://m.facebook.com/notes/blaine-...6655625680401/
May 2nd, 2020, 02:01 PM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidelock

So dictatorship, tyranny etc is gibberish in your opinion. Well let me ask you this RATIONAL question. Did you ever think or conceive that you would see the day you are not allowed or would not be able to go to certain places or communities in your own country you were born in because they are occupied by Muslims ? Perhaps you can enlighten us and describe how that was allowed to happen. How did that start and come about ? Did you loose hope marshalling that argument with your rationale.

Communities and places occupied by Muslims where you can't go? There is no such place in Canada.

My hope isn't "loose." One of your screws may be a different story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Be sure to tell us how much you get for yours. Since they are illegal to own, I would say the fair market value would be the weight of the steel at best.

I'll get zero. None of mine are on the list.
May 2nd, 2020, 02:16 PM
canadaman30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

I'll get zero. None of mine are on the list.

I agree, I didnt see the Red Ryder bb gun on the list..:o
May 2nd, 2020, 02:19 PM
Snowwalker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

I'll get zero. None of mine are on the list.

On this list. How about when they come out with a list of Autoloaders and pump action firearms. How many of your's will be on that list? Or do you think there will be an another list.
May 2nd, 2020, 02:27 PM
JBen

Should have added.
Kenny has fired a rather large broadside. Along with a credible threat to form their own CFO. That is something that is entirely within their power ( and financial means) and well, we know which way the winds are blowing at west already.....

https://globalnews.ca/news/6896583/n...-jason-kenney/

Erin O’Toole has fired broadside. As well.

Curious that Ford is in hiding, no?

Will just depend on what they tap. If they stir up enough crap about abuse of power, side stepping due process. Given SNC, and the grab at unheard of powers early during Covid.

Don’t think I’d want to be in front of that. Or appearing to support it (NDP, Bloc)
May 2nd, 2020, 02:42 PM
Jakezilla

There are some on here that sound like the type that would sell out AR/hand gun guys to keep their 22's. Anyone who wants a united lobby needs to get on board with the AR guys, they aren't going away and arguments aren't unreasonable. We need to ask for more than what we really want.
May 2nd, 2020, 02:52 PM
fishfood

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

Time for a beer. Molson Labe!

Yeah drink the problems away [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk
May 2nd, 2020, 02:57 PM
sidelock

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

Communities and places occupied by Muslims where you can't go? There is no such place in Canada.

My hope isn't "loose." One of your screws may be a different story.

I'll get zero. None of mine are on the list.

I was referring to the UK, I thought that's where you are from having read one of your previous posts about your shotguns being legal in the UK, I stand corrected ! None the less its just another example what can happen anywhere when people are passive and tolerant to those in power who do as they choose and when they choose without any resistance.
You can tighten a loose screw but you can't lose hope when you are hopeless nor can you fix stupid ! Talk about juvenile, it figures you would focus on a typo error, brilliant .
May 2nd, 2020, 03:12 PM
Snowwalker

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishfood

Yeah drink the problems away [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

Bet if they were going to ban beer he'd be screaming.
May 2nd, 2020, 03:40 PM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidelock

I was referring to the UK, I thought that's where you are from having read one of your previous posts about your shotguns being legal in the UK, I stand corrected ! None the less its just another example what can happen anywhere when people are passive and tolerant to those in power who do as they choose and when they choose without any resistance.
You can tighten a loose screw but you can't lose hope when you are hopeless nor can you fix stupid ! Talk about juvenile, it figures you would focus on a typo error, brilliant .

Your punctuation needs work too. And "nonetheless" is one word not three.
May 2nd, 2020, 04:19 PM
canadaman30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakezilla

There are some on here that sound like the type that would sell out AR/hand gun guys to keep their 22's. Anyone who wants a united lobby needs to get on board with the AR guys, they aren't going away and arguments aren't unreasonable. We need to ask for more than what we really want.

Some people dont have enough brain function to understand this. Cowards are sell outs
May 2nd, 2020, 05:01 PM
terrym

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

Your punctuation needs work too. And "nonetheless" is one word not three.

You sound like the type that people dread being around.
May 2nd, 2020, 05:06 PM
js4fn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakezilla

There are some on here that sound like the type that would sell out AR/hand gun guys to keep their 22's. Anyone who wants a united lobby needs to get on board with the AR guys, they aren't going away and arguments aren't unreasonable. We need to ask for more than what we really want.

___ X2.
May 2nd, 2020, 07:46 PM
sidelock

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

Your punctuation needs work too. And "nonetheless" is one word not three.

Better my punctuation needing work than my personality or attitude.
May 2nd, 2020, 08:18 PM
trimmer21

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBen

Should have added.
Kenny has fired a rather large broadside. Along with a credible threat to form their own CFO. That is something that is entirely within their power ( and financial means) and well, we know which way the winds are blowing at west already.....

https://globalnews.ca/news/6896583/n...-jason-kenney/

Erin O’Toole has fired broadside. As well.

Curious that Ford is in hiding, no?

Will just depend on what they tap. If they stir up enough crap about abuse of power, side stepping due process. Given SNC, and the grab at unheard of powers early during Covid.

Don’t think I’d want to be in front of that. Or appearing to support it (NDP, Bloc)

Ford is in hiding? He put out an interview that absolutely savaged Trudeau. You can find it here. https://www.sudbury.com/beyond-local...vid-19-2319059
May 2nd, 2020, 09:42 PM
sidelock

Close the picture page to go back and read the post. The gun ban is just the begining ! https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
May 3rd, 2020, 03:38 AM
JBen

That came out late yesterday Trimmer. After my post.
Good on him for speaking up . After being asked by a reporter. As yet, nothing on social media. Which is far, far more effective these days. Or have Cons not learned that, despite JTs win against Harper?

Not sure about savaged. Just common sense and he’s pretty polite about it.Not one word, about the way it’s been done, or the timing.
All in all, a fairly neutered safe response. Speaking of timing. I saw more on SOCIAL MEDIA yesterday. Some smart people are also starting to ask. Is this the time set Canadians against one another, drive more wedges between us.....
”just saying”

John Brassard. MP Barrie.
"Once again, Justin Trudeau has shown his utter contempt for Parliament, our Democracy and Canadians by imposing his will on law-abiding citizens. This should be alarming and concerning to every Canadian regardless of what side of this issue they may be on".

There’s more (about wedges, about the crassness of using personal tragedy etc ) but I can’t copy the full text from social media. You’d have to go to his personal FB wall. Now he knows how to rip someone. As does Kenney.

But in fairness to Ford. He doesn’t want to or can’t afford to upset the 416/905...in fact the bit about “happy to work with the Feds (Liberals) , be partners...also pretty politically astute, given......
May 3rd, 2020, 07:32 AM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidelock

Better my punctuation needing work than my personality or attitude.

They need work too if you are so paranoid about government you need an assault rifle to protect you.
May 3rd, 2020, 08:24 AM
fishfood

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

They need work too if you are so paranoid about government you need an assault rifle to protect you.

Who says anything about protection

Just because you dont use them dont mean others shouldn't be allowed. Just because you dont like them does not mean others shouldn't aswell.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk
May 3rd, 2020, 08:32 AM
sidelock

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

They need work too if you are so paranoid about government you need an assault rifle to protect you.

Its difficult winning an argument with an intelligent person but it's damn impossible to win one with an IDIOT !
May 3rd, 2020, 08:39 AM
73hunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidelock

Better my punctuation needing work than my personality or attitude.

Very well said. Lots of people have grammar or punctuation errors that aren’t corrected and pointing these out as part of a debate is in poor taste.
May 3rd, 2020, 08:50 AM
73hunter

BBD’s post #19 is on the same line that I started in another thread. Canada needs a well-funded advocacy group with broad cross-country participation. The current patchwork isn’t effective, and although I sometimes agree on silencing some of the “no compromise” hard liners, their right of expression is just as valid as anyone else’s and their arguments are only one step removed from the rest of ours. How will firearms owners ever have a united front when people like Badenoch and Gilroy are saying “pfft, don’t care about the AR guys, I can keep my semi-shotguns....for now”

Guys, this is just another unfortunate progression in the changing face of Canada. The political leanings have been moving toward the left for decades, as hard-working farming communities have given way to urban lifestyles. Not enough people CARE to understand the truth anymore. They’re all too preoccupied with the payments on their million dollar home, luxury vehicle, vacations, maxxed out credit cards and the realization that their CERB may not cover them.

Kenney and Ford have spoken well, and others will chime in, but it won’t be enough.
May 3rd, 2020, 09:27 AM
canadaman30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

Once even a handful of gun owners respond with gibberish about "dictatorship and tyranny" and that Nazi Germany, etc., can "happen again" we've lost any hope of marshalling a convincing argument with rational thinking people who don't own guns. Attempts to change the current narrative about gun ownership in Canada becomes hopeless.

Time for a beer. Molson Labe!

Tells us why people aren't allowed own guns in North Korea, China, Iran? I'm guessing your going to tell us it's for public safety?...
May 3rd, 2020, 09:36 AM
Snowwalker

1 Attachment(s)

People that think it's not a problem, because it will not effect them are in for a fatal surprise.

Attachment 40154
May 3rd, 2020, 09:54 AM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by 73hunter

Very well said. Lots of people have grammar or punctuation errors that aren’t corrected and pointing these out as part of a debate is in poor taste.

Yes, what Canadian gun owners need is barely literate, emotionally unstable individuals ranting about Hitler, Mao and Lenin "happening again" as a justification why they need assault rifles and that banning them is wrong. That will certainly sway the vast majority of Canadians who don't own guns. :silly:
May 3rd, 2020, 09:59 AM
Snowwalker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

Yes, what Canadian gun owners need is barely literate, emotionally unstable individuals ranting about Hitler, Mao and Lenin "happening again" as a justification why they need assault rifles and that banning them is wrong. That will certainly sway the vast majority of Canadians who don't own guns. :silly:

Define "Assault Rifle".
May 3rd, 2020, 10:04 AM
sidelock

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowwalker

People that think it's not a problem, because it will not effect them are in for a fatal surprise.

Attachment 40154

People with a common sense deficiency are unable to comprehend the underlying issues and the potential consequences that may emerge from future orders in council, depriving the public the freedom and the right to debate the government's decisions.
May 3rd, 2020, 10:17 AM
terrym

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Define "Assault Rifle".

Actually the Lee Enfield was designed and manufactured as a military firearm so technically is an assault rifle according to Trudough.
He has announced he’ll borrow another $600 million from our grandchildren to virtue signal and abuse law abiding citizens but none of that money is targeted to border security or law enforcement. I’m sure the imbecile liberals are patting each other on the back.
May 3rd, 2020, 10:24 AM
terrym

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

Yes, what Canadian gun owners need is barely literate, emotionally unstable individuals ranting about Hitler, Mao and Lenin "happening again" as a justification why they need assault rifles and that banning them is wrong. That will certainly sway the vast majority of Canadians who don't own guns. :silly:

“Barely literate, emotionally unstable” ???? Wow. You are the reason people hate liberals. Could you be just a little more condescending you damned troll? Get a life. If I made any grammar or punctuation errors I hope it brings you joy in your miserable life.

Guys, this is a left wing liberal troll likely getting his jollies messing with us. Best to just ignore him.
May 3rd, 2020, 10:29 AM
Snowwalker

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrym

Actually the Lee Enfield was designed and manufactured as a military firearm so technically is an assault rifle according to Trudough.
He has announced he’ll borrow another $600 million from our grandchildren to virtue signal and abuse law abiding citizens but none of that money is targeted to border security or law enforcement.

As was the Sharps, the 1886, the Kentucky rifle, the musket, blunder bust. With the loose definition they use, anything can be claimed to be an assault weapon based on looks or function.

The liberal mind set only has to answer one question.
Does it look scary? Yes. Then it's an assault weapon.
May 3rd, 2020, 10:46 AM
terrym

The libranos live off of cities and the maritimes. Pizzing off people who never vote for them doesn’t affect them. The NDP and Bloc will never risk losing comfy MP jobs and pensions by risking a snap election so Trudough gets to play out his fantasy world. Costumes and all. What could go wrong?
May 3rd, 2020, 10:57 AM
fishfood

In reality there is not a whole hell of alot of bangers carrying around these guns. They are expensive and to show power not to kill as many as they can. Only small portion of bangers actually use or have them.

Facts

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk
May 3rd, 2020, 11:02 AM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrym

“Barely literate, emotionally unstable” ???? Wow. You are the reason people hate liberals. Could you be just a little more condescending you damned troll? Get a life. If I made any grammar or punctuation errors I hope it brings you joy in your miserable life.

Guys, this is a left wing liberal troll likely getting his jollies messing with us. Best to just ignore him.

Emotionally unstable is a fitting description for people who feel the need to keep military-style, semi-automatic rifles because Stalin, Lenin and Mao might "happen again." They are the reason people mistrust gun owners.

My life is hardly miserable for many reasons including that none of my firearms are on the banned list. And it might come as a surprise to you and your fellow travellers that it is quite possible to be a gun owner and a conservative without sounding like a deranged alt.right mouth breather.
May 3rd, 2020, 11:27 AM
73hunter

Badenoch, you’ve had some intelligent posts in the past, but this morning have fallen off the wagon.

NEXT !
May 3rd, 2020, 11:50 AM
GW11

It's pretty obvious there's a division between those who enjoy shooting sports with restricted firearms and a portion those who only use firearms to hunt.

The bottom line is that small percentage of people who only use firearms to hunt see those of us who shoot handguns and restricted rifles as "weekend warriors". We're seen as damaging to them and the possibility of even continuing to own their firearms because of their own perceived image of sport shooters. They'll likely never change their minds.

I only got into shooting restricted firearms as a hobby within the last 6 or 7 years. Before that, I only hunted with my firearms and shot here and there in gravel pits or private property. What I can tell those with their head buried in the sand is WE (sport shooters) are doing more than most for firearms owners by taking uninformed guests to the range and introducing them to shooting and restricted firearms. We are collectively taking the "scary" out of these firearms by showing people that they can be responsibly used and that those who enjoy the shooting sports are NOT a bunch of mouth breathing knuckle draggers. Even during my short time at this I have changed the mindset of a handful of people who would have otherwise had no issue with seeing bans enacted. These people are now opposed to bans as they see legal, responsible firearms ownership as the scapegoat the government is turning it into.

So while the Badenochs and Gilroys of the world continue to bash us, we will continue to educate the otherwise uneducated. You can continue to rest easy while we continue to silently change public opinion. Thanks for the support, my "fellow gun owners".

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
May 3rd, 2020, 12:01 PM
Jakezilla

To whoever hasn't figured it out yet. If the NR guys want to keep their guns they need to fight for the restricted guys ability to keep theirs.

The people that get hung up on grammer are usually the same people that have trouble distinguishing between knowledge and wisdom.
May 3rd, 2020, 01:58 PM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by GW11

It's pretty obvious there's a division between those who enjoy shooting sports with restricted firearms and a portion those who only use firearms to hunt.

The bottom line is that small percentage of people who only use firearms to hunt see those of us who shoot handguns and restricted rifles as "weekend warriors". We're seen as damaging to them and the possibility of even continuing to own their firearms because of their own perceived image of sport shooters. They'll likely never change their minds.

I only got into shooting restricted firearms as a hobby within the last 6 or 7 years. Before that, I only hunted with my firearms and shot here and there in gravel pits or private property. What I can tell those with their head buried in the sand is WE (sport shooters) are doing more than most for firearms owners by taking uninformed guests to the range and introducing them to shooting and restricted firearms. We are collectively taking the "scary" out of these firearms by showing people that they can be responsibly used and that those who enjoy the shooting sports are NOT a bunch of mouth breathing knuckle draggers. Even during my short time at this I have changed the mindset of a handful of people who would have otherwise had no issue with seeing bans enacted. These people are now opposed to bans as they see legal, responsible firearms ownership as the scapegoat the government is turning it into.

So while the Badenochs and Gilroys of the world continue to bash us, we will continue to educate the otherwise uneducated. You can continue to rest easy while we continue to silently change public opinion. Thanks for the support, my "fellow gun owners".

I've taken dozens of people including politicians and political staffers out to shoot guns of all types including restricted and prohibs (yes I own them) and definitely changed minds too. But all of our hard work goes right into the dumper when some gun owning moron starts babbling about Mao, Lenin and Hitler, fighting despots, making comparisons with China, North Korea and Iran or as seen on more notorious Canadian gun web forums promoting illegal acts, armed protests and in extreme cases implying violent resistance.
May 3rd, 2020, 02:06 PM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakezilla

To whoever hasn't figured it out yet. If the NR guys want to keep their guns they need to fight for the restricted guys ability to keep theirs.

The people that get hung up on grammer are usually the same people that have trouble distinguishing between knowledge and wisdom.

Nope. Just like a responsible power boater doesn't need to fight restrictions on jet skis to keep his cabin cruiser.

Even if a mass shooting is perpetrated by non-restricted firearms it does not mean an automatic ban. The most recent UK mass shooting was in Cumbria in 2010. The perpetrator killed 12 innocents and himself. He used a double-barrel shotgun and a bolt-action .22 rifle. In the aftermath no guns were banned.

Hunting and target shooting continues to thrive in the UK and Australia decades after assault rifles were banned. Canada will be the same.
May 3rd, 2020, 02:31 PM
Jakezilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

Nope. Just like a responsible power boater doesn't need to fight restrictions on jet skis to keep his cabin cruiser.

Even if a mass shooting is perpetrated by non-restricted firearms it does not mean an automatic ban. The most recent UK mass shooting was in Cumbria in 2010. The perpetrator killed 12 innocents and himself. He used a double-barrel shotgun and a bolt-action .22 rifle. In the aftermath no guns were banned.

Hunting and target shooting continues to thrive in the UK and Australia decades after assault rifles were banned. Canada will be the same.

When they put Mini-14's on the list they put us all in this together. I think this was a bad move by the liberals as it may mobilize a whole different group of gun owners.

As far as shooting the UK and Australia. I am travel internationally for work and the people I know from those countries have a very different opinion on the health of hunting and shooting sports in those countries. The guns may not be banned in those countries but just try to get one, it's not easy. If you work offshore and are gone 4 or 5 months of the year you cannot get a license in the UK. The police will show up at your house to check your storage.

I tire of some the Mao, Stalin etc arguments because they can come across as simplistic but that doesn't mean they aren't true. Tyrants, Despots and Dictators throughout history disarmed their populations by one means or another to make the take over easy. The 2nd amendment was put into the US constitution for a very good reason.

We need to view this as an effort by the political establishment to erase shooting and hunting from our history. If you look at Agenda 21, Agenda 2030, the UN small arms treaty and then look at what the liberals are working towards we should be very concerned.

I can't remember who said it but "Those who trade liberty for safety will have neither". We shouldn't be moving an inch on this, in fact the smart move is to push back harder and move towards having AR's removed from the restricted list.

You may think that "less educated" gun owners are the problem but gun owners like yourself are the real problem.
May 3rd, 2020, 02:36 PM
sidelock

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Define "Assault Rifle".

It's quite evident by the bile he posts that the only thing he can relate to with" Assalt Rifles " is the first three letters in Assault.
May 3rd, 2020, 02:41 PM
jaycee

Quote:

I tire of some the Mao, Stalin etc arguments because they can come across as simplistic but that doesn't mean they aren't true. Tyrants, Despots and Dictators throughout history disarmed their populations by one means or another to make the take over easy. The 2nd amendment was put into the US constitution for a very good reason.

You don't have to go back as far as Mao, Stalin, as just not long ago, China used tanks and rifles against protestors, same last year in Venezuela, Korea and Hong Kong!.
May 3rd, 2020, 02:55 PM
JBen

“Food for thought”

Has the NRA done more harm, or more good over the last 30 years. As far as I’m concerned they’ve done more harm.

Below is copied directly from my wall. I hope people read it through....The lady is left wing, and on the topic of gun control, at least here in Canada, I’d say undecided. She is rabid anti Trump, and rabid pro GC with respect to the US...

Conversation is between her, and a forum member that’s also on FB and my wall.
———-

Val - pardon me for saying so - but your level of ignorance (forced upon you by lying politicians and disingenuous "news" media) is part of the problem we're facing. They're counting on blanket ignorance and unfounded fears to push their agenda.
Notice that NOTHING has been said by Trudeau or other Ministers about the horrific and mindblowing failure of the RCMP to act to protect their citizens in NS. Nothing has been said about making life harder for convicted abuser felons so that they cannot go about their lives and re-abuse their victims, repeatedly.

Automatic weapons are illegal in Canada. Have been for longer than i've been alive. What these bills continually target are perfectly legal SEMI AUTOMATIC weapons that fire one bullet for each pull of the trigger. They have not been used in crimes in Canada and are only being used by law abiding citizens at licensed, inspected and insured firing ranges, and in many cases, for perfectly legal hunting applications.

"Assault" is a nothing term in regards to firearms. It's a meaningless buzz word.No gun owner i know is attempting to own machineguns.

————
Now I know the forum member and I don’t think he really feels that way. If anything. That’s the preconditioned, knee jerk reaction of gun owners. Especially the “NRA” types.

Her response, pay close attention to it, came after I chimed in, and answered her questions.

-yes but your response to me, even with the pre-emptive apology made me stop the discussion and walk away. If you want people to hear your side of the discussion you have to lose the attitude.

I appreciate all of the facts you and John have outlined. I am ignorant about guns but I have fired some once in Virginia including an AK47 so I'm not blindly against guns, just wanted more information. I agree with the negative use of the term "assault". I understand the use of 2 bullets to ensure the animal died instantly and is not suffering. I would like to believe most hunters are environmentalists and preservationists. (You can't hunt them if they're not there.) And I will always worry that there are hidden agendas that someone is trying to hide from us.
——-

If we want the moderates, undecided to side with us. We HAVE to change the discussion.and in the last two days, everything I’ve shared ripping JT for the method, or “debate”...she has now liked, or “angered” as the case may be.

Same applies to sport shooters, wanting weekend warriors to have their back.
May 3rd, 2020, 03:10 PM
sidelock

The PM has hinted in many of his speeches that the army is being prepared and also advised the public to be prepared to see more army vehicles on our streets. He shut down parliament for a reason and it has nothing to do with public safety. If common people can line up by the hundreds at Costco and practice safe distancing why couldn't politicians attend parliament and keep a safe distance from each other.
May 3rd, 2020, 03:16 PM
sidelock

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBen

“Food for thought”

Has the NRA done more harm, or more good over the last 30 years. As far as I’m concerned they’ve done more harm.

Below is copied directly from my wall. I hope people read it through....The lady is left wing, and on the topic of gun control, at least here in Canada, I’d say undecided. She is rabid anti Trump, and rabid pro GC with respect to the US...

Conversation is between her, and a forum member that’s also on FB and my wall.
———-

Val - pardon me for saying so - but your level of ignorance (forced upon you by lying politicians and disingenuous "news" media) is part of the problem we're facing. They're counting on blanket ignorance and unfounded fears to push their agenda.
Notice that NOTHING has been said by Trudeau or other Ministers about the horrific and mindblowing failure of the RCMP to act to protect their citizens in NS. Nothing has been said about making life harder for convicted abuser felons so that they cannot go about their lives and re-abuse their victims, repeatedly.

Automatic weapons are illegal in Canada. Have been for longer than i've been alive. What these bills continually target are perfectly legal SEMI AUTOMATIC weapons that fire one bullet for each pull of the trigger. They have not been used in crimes in Canada and are only being used by law abiding citizens at licensed, inspected and insured firing ranges, and in many cases, for perfectly legal hunting applications.

"Assault" is a nothing term in regards to firearms. It's a meaningless buzz word.No gun owner i know is attempting to own machineguns.

————
Now I know the forum member and I don’t think he really feels that way. If anything. That’s the preconditioned, knee jerk reaction of gun owners. Especially the “NRA” types.

Her response, pay close attention to it, came after I chimed in, and answered her questions.

-yes but your response to me, even with the pre-emptive apology made me stop the discussion and walk away. If you want people to hear your side of the discussion you have to lose the attitude.

I appreciate all of the facts you and John have outlined. I am ignorant about guns but I have fired some once in Virginia including an AK47 so I'm not blindly against guns, just wanted more information. I agree with the negative use of the term "assault". I understand the use of 2 bullets to ensure the animal died instantly and is not suffering. I would like to believe most hunters are environmentalists and preservationists. (You can't hunt them if they're not there.) And I will always worry that there are hidden agendas that someone is trying to hide from us.
——-

If we want the moderates, undecided to side with us. We HAVE to change the discussion.and in the last two days, everything I’ve shared ripping JT for the method, or “debate”...she has now liked, or “angered” as the case may be.

Same applies to sport shooters, wanting weekend warriors to have their back.

Politicians will say or tell you anything to get out of a corner even go as far as bluntly lying, they are artists at it and at denial. Anyone that watches debates in parliament can attest to that, you can't even get a simple straight yes or no answer out of them. If she is ignorant about guns then she has no place in making decisions about them.
The biggest issue that seems to get lost in these debates is not so much the type of weapons and restrictions but rather how it came about. The PM bypassed the house of commons and just passed a law, which means he can do that with whatever he pleases. That's what Dictators do.
May 3rd, 2020, 03:25 PM
trimmer21

The best way I've found when speaking with those who don't understand why it's such an issue is to ask them to change the word "firearm" for any other inanimate object of their choosing and apply it to confiscation like "golf clubs" or "tennis rackets". It can change their entire outlook as to the effect that political dogma can have on a society in general. It's impossible to get them to agree in argument because their paradigms are so deeply entrenched,but,by planting the seed,if they're as intelligent and sophisticated as they think they are,they'll start to realize that they're being sold a bucket full of BS.
May 3rd, 2020, 04:48 PM
JBen

Trimmer.
I use alcohol. We tried to ban that. It failed. The cost to society is far far worse than 300 gun deaths per year.

Sidelock.
I am “left wing” on social issues. Pretty far left. Right wing on fiscal issues. I unlike many know we need to watch pennies, if we want good social niceties. I am a centrist. I cannot stand most politicians. Whether L or R.

Do you really believe those on R are any different? That they don’t lie to you. Have you so twisted up, you don’t know up from down?
The NRA are one of the single most powerful political forces in the Western Hemisphere. They have you believing the L are dictators, out to disarm you. The R are so deep in their pockets. They too will tell you anything. What, you think the right are trustworthy? Well look at the joke and travesty known as Donald Trump. Those that will convince you that it’s all about free will, freedom, and capitalism will have you bonded in servitude and slavery to debt by the time your out of University and it just gets worse.

Great, you still have all your guns slave.....

:)

Lol

We have far more to actually be worried about, within the next 100 years. Like running out of fresh water, and more. Sure when that day happens it would be nice to have a couple of my guns. I’ll be worm food by then. But if by some miracle I’m still around. If it hits the fan, our guns won’t matter 1 iota. But to be honest, I’d carry my bows. If I make it out of dodge. Arrows are re-useable, craftable, and silent. Kinda like Daryl in walking dead......
May 3rd, 2020, 05:45 PM
Snowwalker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

Communities and places occupied by Muslims where you can't go? There is no such place in Canada.

My hope isn't "loose." One of your screws may be a different story.

I'll get zero. None of mine are on the list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

I've taken dozens of people including politicians and political staffers out to shoot guns of all types including restricted and prohibs (yes I own them) and definitely changed minds too.

Well I will just have to wait till your Handguns are on the next list. Since you don't own any of the long guns on the list, your Restricted and Prohibited most be hand guns.

You wanted the Long guns taken away, don't cry when the next list is handguns.
May 3rd, 2020, 05:46 PM
fishfood

Really what municipalities are going to ban them?. You think the city of Toronto has the balls to ban then ?

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May 3rd, 2020, 06:09 PM
sidelock

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBen

Trimmer.
I use alcohol. We tried to ban that. It failed. The cost to society is far far worse than 300 gun deaths per year.

Sidelock.
I am “left wing” on social issues. Pretty far left. Right wing on fiscal issues. I unlike many know we need to watch pennies, if we want good social niceties. I am a centrist. I cannot stand most politicians. Whether L or R.

Do you really believe those on R are any different? That they don’t lie to you. Have you so twisted up, you don’t know up from down?
The NRA are one of the single most powerful political forces in the Western Hemisphere. They have you believing the L are dictators, out to disarm you. The R are so deep in their pockets. They too will tell you anything. What, you think the right are trustworthy? Well look at the joke and travesty known as Donald Trump. Those that will convince you that it’s all about free will, freedom, and capitalism will have you bonded in servitude and slavery to debt by the time your out of University and it just gets worse.

Great, you still have all your guns slave.....

:)

Lol

We have far more to actually be worried about, within the next 100 years. Like running out of fresh water, and more. Sure when that day happens it would be nice to have a couple of my guns. I’ll be worm food by then. But if by some miracle I’m still around. If it hits the fan, our guns won’t matter 1 iota. But to be honest, I’d carry my bows. If I make it out of dodge. Arrows are re-useable, craftable, and silent. Kinda like Daryl in walking dead......

When I say politicians I'm referring to all politicians regardless which party they represent. All I know is what was done was not according to the way a democracy is suppose to functions. Also when he banned the guns on the list he said starting immediately, that means that the people at the gun range target shooting with guns that were on the list would be considered criminals braking the law and could have been thrown in jail transporting those firearms home from the shooting range. The other issue is exempting indigenous people and the only reason is because he knows they will not give up their firearms without a fight and I don't necessarily mean in a court of law or in parliament.
May 3rd, 2020, 08:11 PM
Badenoch

Upon looking closely at the regulation a question that might be worth asking is why all the fuss?

http://gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2020/2...f/g2-154x3.pdf

From the regulatory impact statement. Pg. 54

Quote:

During the amnesty period, the Government intends to implement a buy-back program to compensate affected owners for the value of their firearms after they are delivered to a police officer; however, until a buy-back program is offered, affected owners will not be eligible for compensation. An option to participate in a grandfathering regime would also be made available for affected owners. Further public communications on the buy-back program and the grandfathering regime will follow later.

The result is people who own the guns on the list can keep them. They will be available in the event the descendants of Hitler, Stalin or Mao make an appearance in Ontario, rampaging ethnic minorities storm your home or Deep State agents sent by George Soros want to come over and steal your beer. Wolverines!

Meanwhile, people who own the guns but don't want to keep them will be compensated for giving them up. With the ink on a government cheque barely dry they can scurry to the gun store to buy something new. And who doesn't like a new gun?

And if you are among the unfortunates who don't have one of the listed guns and need to fend off despotic governments, local tyrants or neighbourhood busybodies there remains a variety of quality, military-style, semi-automatic rifles from which to choose. The Tavor, Advanced Combat Rifle, Russian/Chicom SKS, Ruger PC9 and the Garand are still legal to purchase.

Everybody happy now? :D
May 3rd, 2020, 08:38 PM
JBen

Sidelock. I mostly realized that. You did say politicians, not Liberals.

Don’t misunderstand me. I am seething. And many people here ( including myself) “predicted” this years ago.

Will they ever “disarm” us? Highly doubt it, but never say never is my motto. Stranger things happen all the time. Who would dreamed just 2 years. We’d be living days like today. Where we aren’t far from martial law, and our economy is crippled.....

I do chuckle when hard right NRA types, do bring that up. This isn’t the 1800s when militias stood a wee chance. If push comes to shove and they ever tried that. Resistance would be futile.
I’d love to see a well armed milita vs 1 Blackhawk. Let alone tanks and armored vehicles.....how’d they make out in WACO?

Better off grabbing your bows if you can get out of dodge....;)

the reality is, we have more more to concerned about. Today, and maybe as little as 50-100 years.
May 4th, 2020, 09:04 AM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

I've taken dozens of people including politicians and political staffers out to shoot guns of all types including restricted and prohibs (yes I own them) and definitely changed minds too. But all of our hard work goes right into the dumper when some gun owning moron starts babbling about Mao, Lenin and Hitler, fighting despots, making comparisons with China, North Korea and Iran or as seen on more notorious Canadian gun web forums promoting illegal acts, armed protests and in extreme cases implying violent resistance.

And to prove my point about our hard work going into the dumper when emotionally unstable idiots start ranting and raving.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...re-on-your-own

Quote:

MOORE: Gun owners, you're on your own
John Moore
Published:
May 4, 2020

Gun owners, fair warning; I no longer have your back.

If Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s latest legislation against assault weapons really is the first salvo in a campaign to take away every last gun, then you’re on your own.

When Toronto Mayor John Tory and his Calgary counterpart, Nahead Nenshi, ban shooting ranges, it’s your fight.

It wasn’t always this way.

If I am to be labeled a “liberal,” then I was one of the rare ones willing to stand by you. I live in possibly the greatest concentration of left leaners in the country.

I am a bike riding, Chardonnay swilling, Toronto downtowner. I have also spent the last 20 years of my career writing and radio broadcasting and I have always defended the rights of gun owners. No more.

I’m done with your hectoring and condescension. I’m through with your paranoia.

I don’t need to be lectured on a constitutional amendment from another country. The fact that I don’t own a gun is immaterial. That I live in an urban setting doesn’t mean I don’t understand a farmer’s need for a firearm for pest control.

I also don’t need the patronizing reminders about how it’s not “a weapon.”

This new indifference stems from a tweet I posted on May 1 that read: “I support gun rights for hunters and target shooters. I don’t know why anyone needs automatic weapons.”

A pretty rare endorsement from a guy who lives in the most liberal North American city outside of San Francisco.

But this brought on such a torrent of abusive tweets my Twitter feed started to look like one of the screens from the Matrix.

Many dwelled on my use of the word “automatic” with tart dispositions about the intricacies of different guns. Ok, I get it. I should have said “assault.”

I don’t have a PhD in guns but you likely don’t have a degree in economics and yet I’m sure you have views on the federal budget.

NO small number of people said “automatic” guns are already banned in Canada. In which case, why the outrage? If Trudeau and Blair are banning something that is already banned, let’s all go back to bed.

I’ll set aside those who called me a “libtard.”

I may not be an expert in guns but I have fired one. I have a policy of trying pretty well everything and if I was going to talk about guns on my radio show (which is in a city where the mayor wants to ban ALL guns), then I thought I should go to a gun range.

My friend, Becky Coles, and her father, John, took me to an indoor range. They taught me to load the magazine of a CZ 75 Compact.

John instructed me on aiming, trigger pressure and recoil. I fired maybe 100 shots. Like most first-timers, I had some good luck. I get that the skill and the thrill are in replicating the good shots.

It was not an experience I care to repeat. I’m just not a gun person. Becky and John have no interest in my hobbies of cycling and golfing.

But that’s the difference. I understand that target shooting is a hobby not a personality disorder. I support hunting (so long as you eat what you kill). I’m not one of those urban snobs who calls gun owners “nutters” or wants to ban ranges or compel people to store their weapons at the range (like many, John and Becky go to different ones).

I do want sensible gun laws. As a matter of fact, even an overwhelming majority of gun owners have few issues with gun storage and transportation laws. They know they reduce the incidence of suicide, accidents and guns falling into criminal hands.

Perhaps, the cohort of angry gun owners is small. I can’t tell. But I don’t need their stress-inducing insults and tirades.

Gun owners, you had an ally but you’re on your own now.

Good job morons. You turned an ally into an enemy.
May 4th, 2020, 09:50 AM
Snowwalker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

And to prove my point about our hard work going into the dumper when emotionally unstable idiots start ranting and raving.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...re-on-your-own

Good job morons. You turned an ally into an enemy.

Pretty words, prove nothing.
" I was on your side, but when I made a Mistake they hurt my feeling by correcting me. So now I am going to be mean to people I don't ever cared about to begin with."

That is the reader's Digest version.
May 4th, 2020, 10:58 AM
trimmer21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

Upon looking closely at the regulation a question that might be worth asking is why all the fuss?

http://gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2020/2...f/g2-154x3.pdf

From the regulatory impact statement. Pg. 54

The result is people who own the guns on the list can keep them. They will be available in the event the descendants of Hitler, Stalin or Mao make an appearance in Ontario, rampaging ethnic minorities storm your home or Deep State agents sent by George Soros want to come over and steal your beer. Wolverines!

Meanwhile, people who own the guns but don't want to keep them will be compensated for giving them up. With the ink on a government cheque barely dry they can scurry to the gun store to buy something new. And who doesn't like a new gun?

And if you are among the unfortunates who don't have one of the listed guns and need to fend off despotic governments, local tyrants or neighbourhood busybodies there remains a variety of quality, military-style, semi-automatic rifles from which to choose. The Tavor, Advanced Combat Rifle, Russian/Chicom SKS, Ruger PC9 and the Garand are still legal to purchase.

Everybody happy now? :D

Quite clearly,you're still not seeing the big picture. Take a look at this and maybe you can get a better idea by reading the whole book. Every Canadian,no matter which side the political spectrum they sit on,need to pay attention. It's not just about of which firearms the ruling party decides to relieve the citizenry. It's about the reason and method they do it.

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”#
―#Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn ,#The Gulag Archipelago
May 4th, 2020, 11:07 AM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Pretty words, prove nothing.
" I was on your side, but when I made a Mistake they hurt my feeling by correcting me. So now I am going to be mean to people I don't ever cared about to begin with."

That is the reader's Digest version.

I'm sure the gun owners who took the time to take this journalist out shooting and were convincing him that gun owners were responsible sportsmen and women really appreciate the dipsh-ts who attacked him on social media.
May 4th, 2020, 11:15 AM
canadaman30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

And to prove my point about our hard work going into the dumper when emotionally unstable idiots start ranting and raving.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...re-on-your-own

Good job morons. You turned an ally into an enemy.

He was never an ally of gun owners with an attitude like his. He is un-educated and close minded as far as firearms gos. He does not speak for any gun owners about storage laws because he doesn't even own a firearm. But he does support a PM that commits criminal acts. His words are worth as much as dog s#-t
May 4th, 2020, 12:03 PM
410001661

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

2 year amnesty.

Minority government.

OIC, which means it only puts measures in place immediately, but must be debated in HOC in order to become law.

Election in that period.

.......plus the fact that my AR self identifies as a single shot .22
May 4th, 2020, 12:15 PM
MarkB

Does anyone here know of a criminal who gives a crap about what new laws Trudope puts in place?
I don't ... not sure how this will help, they'll just buy their guns another way ... probably in US, and smuggled
across boarder ... oh wait, isn't that how they do it right now anyhow? OK, but what if they get caught with it ... yup,
that will be charge count number 22 on the list of laws they broke ... going to make a huge difference in persuading a
criminal, NOT!

LOL. This law simply goes to show that the government has NO IDEA how criminals operate ... this is ALL political, and
simply is a waste of our time.
May 4th, 2020, 12:35 PM
mosquito

.... and on goes the ideologue dictator lover...
https://www.kitchenertoday.com/natio...oming-2320892?

Trudeau says legislation on municipal handgun bans coming
May 4th, 2020, 01:18 PM
sidelock

"Those who would GIVE UP essential LIBERTY for a little temporary SAFETY deserve neither LIBERTY nor SAFETY". Benjamin Franklin.
May 4th, 2020, 01:37 PM
fishfood

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosquito

.... and on goes the ideologue dictator lover...
https://www.kitchenertoday.com/natio...oming-2320892?

Trudeau says legislation on municipal handgun bans coming

Really what municipalities are going to ban them ?

Can you really see a ban in Toronto?

Even if it they did ban them some would leave to keep their guns,and it wouldn't stop the violence ,barely even slow it down.

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May 4th, 2020, 02:16 PM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidelock

"Those who would GIVE UP essential LIBERTY for a little temporary SAFETY deserve neither LIBERTY nor SAFETY". Benjamin Franklin.

Here's another thing Franklin said, "It takes many good deeds to build a good reputation, and only one bad one to lose it."

So for all the effort some gun owners make to reach out to non-gun owners and build acceptance for our sport in the larger community all it takes is a few slobbering fools ranting about "tyranny and dictators" to undo much of our good work.
May 4th, 2020, 02:37 PM
canadaman30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

Here's another thing Franklin said, "It takes many good deeds to build a good reputation, and only one bad one to lose it."

So for all the effort some gun owners make to reach out to non-gun owners and build acceptance for our sport in the larger community all it takes is a few slobbering fools ranting about "tyranny and dictators" to undo much of our good work.

What it takes is a POS like Trudeau.
May 4th, 2020, 03:16 PM
Snowwalker

1 Attachment(s)

Finally the right question

Attachment 40167
May 4th, 2020, 03:59 PM
Jakezilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by trimmer21

Quite clearly,you're still not seeing the big picture. Take a look at this and maybe you can get a better idea by reading the whole book. Every Canadian,no matter which side the political spectrum they sit on,need to pay attention. It's not just about of which firearms the ruling party decides to relieve the citizenry. It's about the reason and method they do it.

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”#
―#Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn ,#The Gulag Archipelago

Bingo. There is a reason that this book is not standard reading and they don't teach proper history in school. An educated population is difficult to rule.

Badenoch the people you are talking about are never going to support gun owners they are just virtue signalers who change their mind as soon as the winds shift. Chasing their support is a waste of time because they will bail the instant things get a little tough and they need to form a proper argument to support their ideas. They are from the "If it saves one life" crowd, a simple argument used by simple people for a wide range of topics.
All your posts tell me you are the person we should be wary of, the type who would sell us all out to save his own and then wonder why no one was there to help when they came for him.

The PAL and RPAL guys are all in this together. Like I said before if the PAL guys want to keep their guns later they need to fight for the RPAL guys now.
May 4th, 2020, 04:10 PM
terrym

^^^ well said. :thumbup:
the next wave of Tru-dough’s bans will likely take away firearms that many use every year duck or deer or moose hunting. I have no doubt whatsoever that the crooked little prince will move to an Australian type model. Trudough wants to give powers to municipalities that aren’t in the Charter. If the Supreme Court does the kind of virtue signalling they have shown recently then hunting and firearms ownership will disappear in our lifetime.

I will apologize if my grammar has offended anybody to conserve bandwith.
May 4th, 2020, 04:35 PM
sidelock

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

Here's another thing Franklin said, "It takes many good deeds to build a good reputation, and only one bad one to lose it."

So for all the effort some gun owners make to reach out to non-gun owners and build acceptance for our sport in the larger community all it takes is a few slobbering fools ranting about "tyranny and dictators" to undo much of our good work.

You certainly shouldn't be looking at your PM for good deeds, he's selling us and the country out. As for "our support and our good work" you're not supporting anything, on the contrary you oppose every single comment and member in this thread. Responsible gun owners need genuine support not back stabbers like you insulting people that have a different opinion or point of view than you do. You claim the way to deal with such issues is to take a rational approach yet all you do is insult people and make derogatory remarks typical of a bigot. I have a few choice words for you too but i don't want to lower myself to your level on a public forum so i had them special delivered just for you. Oh and don't bother wasting your time and energy with PM because I will not open them.
May 4th, 2020, 05:53 PM
jaycee

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidelock

You certainly shouldn't be looking at your PM for good deeds, he's selling us and the country out. As for "our support and our good work" you're not supporting anything, on the contrary you oppose every single comment and member in this thread. Responsible gun owners need genuine support not back stabbers like you insulting people that have a different opinion or point of view than you do. You claim the way to deal with such issues is to take a rational approach yet all you do is insult people and make derogatory remarks typical of a bigot. I have a few choice words for you too but i don't want to lower myself to your level on a public forum so i had them special delivered just for you. Oh and don't bother wasting your time and energy with PM because I will not open them.

Hopefully , he will keep the PM to himself and not bring it out into the forum, looking for sympathy from others, WHICH HE WILL NOT GET!
May 4th, 2020, 07:13 PM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakezilla

Badenoch the people you are talking about are never going to support gun owners they are just virtue signalers who change their mind as soon as the winds shift. Chasing their support is a waste of time because they will bail the instant things get a little tough and they need to form a proper argument to support their ideas. They are from the "If it saves one life" crowd, a simple argument used by simple people for a wide range of topics.
All your posts tell me you are the person we should be wary of, the type who would sell us all out to save his own and then wonder why no one was there to help when they came for him.

The PAL and RPAL guys are all in this together. Like I said before if the PAL guys want to keep their guns later they need to fight for the RPAL guys now.

If you don't pursue the support of non-gun owners and stop acting like paranoid losers there is no hope of changing any minds.

The UK, Australia and New Zealand prove that shooting sports can survive the banning of assault rifles. Canada will prove it too.
May 4th, 2020, 07:23 PM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaycee

Hopefully , he will keep the PM to himself and not bring it out into the forum, looking for sympathy from others, WHICH HE WILL NOT GET!

Unlike certain puss(y) boys on this forum I have no need to PM. If I feel the need to say it I will say it openly for all to see.
May 4th, 2020, 07:45 PM
Jakezilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

If you don't pursue the support of non-gun owners and stop acting like paranoid losers there is no hope of changing any minds.

The UK, Australia and New Zealand prove that shooting sports can survive the banning of assault rifles. Canada will prove it too.

Your idea of shooting sports surviving and mine are worlds apart.

Many feared the liberals would do a gun grab once they got in power and it happened, in a rather undemocratic way no less. When what you fear comes to fruition is it still called being paranoid?

You would have us on our knees in front of the liberals begging to keep our guns like Oliver Twist asking for more porridge. I am guessing that my idea of freedom and yours are worlds apart as well.
May 4th, 2020, 07:56 PM
Jakezilla

Badenoch

Please lay out this enlightened argument that we can use to sway the public. Is the "guns don't kill people, people kill people?" How about "An AR15 has never been used in a crime in Canada?". Should we all dress in tweed and go on driven hunts? I am pretty sure all the arguments have made the rounds. With the media being bought off, facts don't matter anymore.

We have seen lots of talk from up on high but no real plan or answers. Please enlighten us.
May 4th, 2020, 07:58 PM
GW11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

Here's another thing Franklin said, "It takes many good deeds to build a good reputation, and only one bad one to lose it."

So for all the effort some gun owners make to reach out to non-gun owners and build acceptance for our sport in the larger community all it takes is a few slobbering fools ranting about "tyranny and dictators" to undo much of our good work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

Unlike certain puss(y) boys on this forum I have no need to PM. If I feel the need to say it I will say it openly for all to see.

Funny, you sure don't practice what you preach.

Any semi intelligent points you've made in this or other threads are pretty quickly erased by posts like that second one.

Slobbering fools indeed.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
May 4th, 2020, 09:40 PM
sidelock

1 Attachment(s)

Attachment 40168mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
May 5th, 2020, 05:41 AM
canadaman30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

I've taken dozens of people including politicians and political staffers out to shoot guns of all types including restricted and prohibs (yes I own them) and definitely changed minds too. But all of our hard work goes right into the dumper when some gun owning moron starts babbling about Mao, Lenin and Hitler, fighting despots, making comparisons with China, North Korea and Iran or as seen on more notorious Canadian gun web forums promoting illegal acts, armed protests and in extreme cases implying violent resistance.

Strange in another thread you claim the ban wont effect you in any way as you dont choose those types of guns. So what is it or are you just blowing more hot air? Sounds like like your full of it..
May 5th, 2020, 07:20 AM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakezilla

Badenoch

Please lay out this enlightened argument that we can use to sway the public. Is the "guns don't kill people, people kill people?" How about "An AR15 has never been used in a crime in Canada?". Should we all dress in tweed and go on driven hunts? I am pretty sure all the arguments have made the rounds. With the media being bought off, facts don't matter anymore.

We have seen lots of talk from up on high but no real plan or answers. Please enlighten us.

First of all if you say "An AR-15 has never been used in a crime in Canada" you'd be wrong.

The first step to changing the narrative about shooting in Canada would be to purge our ranks and ranges of the emotionally unstable who rant about needing guns because Mao, Hitler, Lenin could return or make rambling and incoherent statements about the NWO, UN, Agenda 21, Area 51 or whatever other delusional fantasies they might have at the moment.

The second step would be to stop acting like belligerent arsewipes claiming "rights" we don't have, threatening illegal acts in response to government legislation and attacking anyone, including other gun owners, who don't share their views.

The third step would be to present ourselves as responsible sportspeople committed to public safety including responsible and reasonable controls on firearms such as licensing and safe storage laws.
May 5th, 2020, 07:24 AM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by GW11

Funny, you sure don't practice what you preach.

Any semi intelligent points you've made in this or other threads are pretty quickly erased by posts like that second one.

Slobbering fools indeed.

It's an appropriate response to the weak puss who PM insults. They don't have the stones to say it on the open forum and no doubt would crap their panties at the prospect of saying to my face.
May 5th, 2020, 07:24 AM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadaman30

Strange in another thread you claim the ban wont effect you in any way as you dont choose those types of guns. So what is it or are you just blowing more hot air? Sounds like like your full of it..

The firearms I own are not covered by the OIC.
May 5th, 2020, 07:31 AM
trimmer21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

The firearms I own are not covered by the OIC.

I'll bet you'll whistle a different tune when YOU get the directive to turn in YOUR firearms. Twas always thus. As long as nothing affects you, you don't care about what happens to others. I get where you're coming from.
May 5th, 2020, 07:48 AM
Jakezilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

First of all if you say "An AR-15 has never been used in a crime in Canada" you'd be wrong.

The first step to changing the narrative about shooting in Canada would be to purge our ranks and ranges of the emotionally unstable who rant about needing guns because Mao, Hitler, Lenin could return or make rambling and incoherent statements about the NWO, UN, Agenda 21, Area 51 or whatever other delusional fantasies they might have at the moment.

The second step would be to stop acting like belligerent arsewipes claiming "rights" we don't have, threatening illegal acts in response to government legislation and attacking anyone, including other gun owners, who don't share their views.

The third step would be to present ourselves as responsible sportspeople committed to public safety including responsible and reasonable controls on firearms such as licensing and safe storage laws.

The AR used in crime argument was a blanket argument I hear a lot. How about we change it to " A legally aquired AR15 has never been used in a crime buy a RPAL holder." Is that better? If an AR has been used in a crime I would like to know about it so I can be ready in future discussions with friends. If you have evidence of this please share it.

People were "paranoid" about liberals taking their guns and they did. Maybe all the other "paranoia" is warranted. About 10 years ago I had a friend going off about Agenda 21 and I thought he was "paranoid". So I looked up Agenda 21, read it and compared to the federal, provincial and municipal policies that were being enacted. I didn't think he was so paranoid after that. People use the "paranoia" tag to discount everything that comes out of that persons mouth. Everything that person says might not be right but it's not all wrong either. Is Trudeau going to turn into Mao, no, but why the need to disarm the population? Why are people so eager to be lied to? The arguments about authoritarian power are to try to draw some parallels between today and what has happened in the past. There is a serious lack of historical knowledge in society today.

No Canadian is talking about rights. We all know we don't really have any, the Charter is a feel good measure that the government (all parties) only upholds when it suits them.

We are not going to win a debate on guns with the media against us. The narrative needs to be moved to a freedom issue. Do we want to be free? Do we want the government to have this much power over us with no recourse? The idea of freedom in Canada and America are very different. Canadian freedom is based on permission while the American freedom is based on inalienable rights from God lais out in their constitution.

For the third step you laid out. Do we not already do this? As a gun owner what more controls would you like to see?

You sound like a self loathing gun owner.
May 5th, 2020, 07:57 AM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by trimmer21

I'll bet you'll whistle a different tune when YOU get the directive to turn in YOUR firearms. Twas always thus. As long as nothing affects you, you don't care about what happens to others. I get where you're coming from.

Here's a tune I won't whistle: I won't threaten a violent or illegal response, insult anyone with a different opinion, claim I need to my guns to fend off despotic governments, blame the UN, compare myself to a Jew in Nazi Germany, quote Solzhenitsyn, reference Hitler, Mao and Lenin, etc.
May 5th, 2020, 08:00 AM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakezilla

The AR used in crime argument was a blanket argument I hear a lot. How about we change it to " A legally aquired AR15 has never been used in a crime buy a RPAL holder." Is that better? If an AR has been used in a crime I would like to know about it so I can be ready in future discussions with friends. If you have evidence of this please share it.

People were "paranoid" about liberals taking their guns and they did. Maybe all the other "paranoia" is warranted. About 10 years ago I had a friend going off about Agenda 21 and I thought he was "paranoid". So I looked up Agenda 21, read it and compared to the federal, provincial and municipal policies that were being enacted. I didn't think he was so paranoid after that. People use the "paranoia" tag to discount everything that comes out of that persons mouth. Everything that person says might not be right but it's not all wrong either. Is Trudeau going to turn into Mao, no, but why the need to disarm the population? Why are people so eager to be lied to? The arguments about authoritarian power are to try to draw some parallels between today and what has happened in the past. There is a serious lack of historical knowledge in society today.

No Canadian is talking about rights. We all know we don't really have any, the Charter is a feel good measure that the government (all parties) only upholds when it suits them.

We are not going to win a debate on guns with the media against us. The narrative needs to be moved to a freedom issue. Do we want to be free? Do we want the government to have this much power over us with no recourse? The idea of freedom in Canada and America are very different. Canadian freedom is based on permission while the American freedom is based on inalienable rights from God lais out in their constitution.

For the third step you laid out. Do we not already do this? As a gun owner what more controls would you like to see?

You sound like a self loathing gun owner.

You sound like someone who has given up and just wants to whine and lash out instead of doing something positive.
May 5th, 2020, 08:10 AM
trimmer21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

You sound like someone who has given up and just wants to whine and lash out instead of doing something positive.

So far,I haven't heard you come up with a viable solution,just condescending rhetoric.
May 5th, 2020, 08:33 AM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by trimmer21

So far,I haven't heard you come up with a viable solution,just condescending rhetoric.

Angry people who've surrendered have no interest in solutions or anything other than being angry and lashing out.

My intention is to be among the majority of gun owners who are responsible members of the community and not angry cranks on the distant fringes of society, support the one viable political party with firearms policies I can support, continue to bring people into the sport and enjoy the use of my firearms. YMMV.
May 5th, 2020, 08:36 AM
sidelock

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

It's an appropriate response to the weak puss who PM insults. They don't have the stones to say it on the open forum and no doubt would crap their panties at the prospect of saying to my face.

The only reason people revert to PM to express their opinion of you is because the moderator will delete them not because they are afraid of bullies.
May 5th, 2020, 08:43 AM
sidelock

The second step would be to stop acting like belligerent arsewipes claiming "rights" we don't have, threatening illegal acts in response to government legislation and attacking anyone, including other gun owners, who don't share their views.

Typical hypocrite, do as I say not as I do ! The issue should have been discussed and debated in parliament, a minority government can't just do whatever they want how they want in a functioning democracy. That's how communist and fascist dictatorships operate.
May 5th, 2020, 11:56 AM
MarkB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

First of all if you say "An AR-15 has never been used in a crime in Canada" you'd be wrong.

The first step to changing the narrative about shooting in Canada would be to purge our ranks and ranges of the emotionally unstable who rant about needing guns because Mao, Hitler, Lenin could return or make rambling and incoherent statements about the NWO, UN, Agenda 21, Area 51 or whatever other delusional fantasies they might have at the moment.

The second step would be to stop acting like belligerent arsewipes claiming "rights" we don't have, threatening illegal acts in response to government legislation and attacking anyone, including other gun owners, who don't share their views.

The third step would be to present ourselves as responsible sportspeople committed to public safety including responsible and reasonable controls on firearms such as licensing and safe storage laws.

The fourth would be demanding due process by government, so that the rights, freedoms and legislative process is followed, to ensure the rights of minorities are not infringed upon at least not inconsistently ... otherwise, I can think of A LOT of minority groups that are about to get screwed because Trudope wakes up on the wrong side of the bed one day.
May 5th, 2020, 11:57 AM
Snowwalker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

I'll get zero. None of mine are on the list.

Hey butt sniffer. The chickens just came home to roost.

You own a 12 gauge with screw in chokes?

Well last Fridays Decree say it is ILLEGAL. Hand it over.
May 5th, 2020, 12:15 PM
Jakezilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

You sound like someone who has given up and just wants to whine and lash out instead of doing something positive.

I am not sure where I lashed out. You must be a politician with your ability to dodge questions and give indirect answers of little substance.

As far as my giving up, I have not yet begun to fight. I have always been a bystander listening to everyone talk about gun grabs never thinking something like this would happen in this way. It's the way in which it was done that bothers me the most. This isn't about guns anymore this is about a PMO and liberal party that thinks they can do whatever they want. This is now a discussion about freedom and a government that has over stepped it's bounds. I am hoping that those interested in liberty and freedom will see this action by the government for what it is.
May 5th, 2020, 12:17 PM
Jakezilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

Here's a tune I won't whistle: I won't threaten a violent or illegal response, insult anyone with a different opinion, claim I need to my guns to fend off despotic governments, blame the UN, compare myself to a Jew in Nazi Germany, quote Solzhenitsyn, reference Hitler, Mao and Lenin, etc.

If you have read Solzhenitsyn and this along with the Covid lockdown doesn't trigger any alarms, you didn't understand it.
May 5th, 2020, 12:32 PM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Hey butt sniffer. The chickens just came home to roost.

You own a 12 gauge with screw in chokes?

Well last Fridays Decree say it is ILLEGAL. Hand it over.

Right. Because someone measured the muzzle of a 12 gauge without the chokes and found some were over 20mm.

Nice try but that is not how shotgun bores are measured.
May 5th, 2020, 12:44 PM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakezilla

If you have read Solzhenitsyn and this along with the Covid lockdown doesn't trigger any alarms, you didn't understand it.

I read it. Understand it too. People look like fools citing a book about Soviet gulags in the 50's and 60's as a reason not to ban certain semi-automatic rifles in Canada in 2020.
May 5th, 2020, 12:59 PM
Jakezilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

I read it. Understand it too. People look like fools citing a book about Soviet gulags in the 50's and 60's as a reason not to ban certain semi-automatic rifles in Canada in 2020.

This is much bigger than the ban. It's about the unchecked government and how it led to the gulags. Getting citizens to rat on each other (COVID), ring any bells? Deliberate misinformation by the authorities. I doubt we will get to mock trials but the democrats are doing their best to try south of the border. The Gulags are a long shot as well but there is plenty of warning in the book that we, as citizens, should be aware of.
May 5th, 2020, 01:04 PM
canadaman30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

Angry people who've surrendered have no interest in solutions or anything other than being angry and lashing out.

My intention is to be among the majority of gun owners who are responsible members of the community and not angry cranks on the distant fringes of society, support the one viable political party with firearms policies I can support, continue to bring people into the sport and enjoy the use of my firearms. YMMV.

Who besides you have claimed anybody has surrendered? This ban will show one of the greatest amounts of non-compliance towards the federal liberal party. Many are angered and rightfully so, surrender, no that's what cowards do. I would imagine owners will be given an option to be grandfather because the Turd and bozo billy damn well know people wont be handing their property over so easily.
May 5th, 2020, 04:14 PM
sidelock

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadaman30

Who besides you have claimed anybody has surrendered? This ban will show one of the greatest amounts of non-compliance towards the federal liberal party. Many are angered and rightfully so, surrender, no that's what cowards do. I would imagine owners will be given an option to be grandfather because the Turd and bozo billy damn well know people wont be handing their property over so easily.

That's the reason Indigenous people are exempt from some of the restrictions because he knows damn well they will not give up their firearms without a fight and I don't mean a fight in a court of law or parliament
.
May 5th, 2020, 06:42 PM
grumpygeezer

for s and giggles I asked 6 of my neighbors and a few friends during conversation about the virus etc....none of them are hunters, shooters etc..but they all know I hunt..How do you feel about turdo banning assault rifles?..everyone of them asked me..what kind of assault rifles?..you mean the kind the army uses?..you mean the handguns the gangs use?..I explained best I could..point?..people just don`t know, don`t care, so when the drama queen stands in front of a podium and says..its what Canadians want..I just wonder where he gets his info from. I do not have any of those types of rifles in question, but i will stand beside someone who does and support their beliefs..because next time..it could be my guns they want!!, and I guarantee you they will come after them eventually!! Oh and by the way, when i was at an armed forces day years ago, I watched a soldier demonstrate the 303 lee enfield bolt action service rifle in a rapid fire demonstration..10 rounds in 5 seconds..now is that an assault rifle??
May 5th, 2020, 07:31 PM
fishfood

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidelock

That's the reason Indigenous people are exempt from some of the restrictions because he knows damn well they will not give up their firearms without a fight and I don't mean a fight in a court of law or parliament
.

They will move busses onto the tracks next time and burn them [emoji56]. Never mind the small rd blocks if you take their guns. And why should they ?. Who's to say they wont already fight to keep,they may just say "f" it lol in a civil manner.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk
May 5th, 2020, 08:49 PM
grumpygeezer

So...can I keep my potato gun? or is it now banned too
May 5th, 2020, 09:11 PM
Snowwalker

Quote:

Originally Posted by grumpygeezer

So...can I keep my potato gun? or is it now banned too

Is it's bore bigger then 20 mm?
May 5th, 2020, 09:11 PM
fishfood

Quote:

Originally Posted by grumpygeezer

So...can I keep my potato gun? or is it now banned too

Barrel is to big for potatoes we need them to shoot marbles now they may be to big too [emoji1787] lol.

I know some guys who took the time to shave down some golf balls. Pretty accurate and has no problem going through the shed lol guess golf balls are now banned too Haha.

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May 6th, 2020, 12:27 PM
MarkB

If I didn't know any better, like most of the non-hunting population ... I would draw some pretty clear pictures in my head about what an "ASSAULT" rifle looks like and is ...

Why is it called an "ASSAULT" rifle ... that is like calling a knife a "HARM" knife, or a stick a "BRUISING" stick.
It implies what the object is used for.

I think the term ASSAULT rifle needs to be looked at carefully ... and some education is needed, so that everything isn't branded an Assault Rifle. I mean, sure guns can be used to assault people, and so can a 20kg bag of flour ... I haven't ever heard of the term Assault Flour being use ... ever.
May 6th, 2020, 01:01 PM
410001661

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishfood

They will move busses onto the tracks next time and burn them [emoji56]. Never mind the small rd blocks if you take their guns. And why should they ?. Who's to say they wont already fight to keep,they may just say "f" it lol in a civil manner.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

I would be more concerned about the inability of the government to break up one of the largest smuggling rings ever on Canadian soil. The government will not or cannot stop the massive alcohol and cigarette cartel that the natives are running right under their nose. But now they are allowed to own (and assume buy and sell) any gun on that list of banned firearms. I am truly amazed and also insulted because Justin has set the groundwork for creating class system in Canada. Certain Canadians have rights to continue to enjoy, and owning things that other Canadians do not have the right to do anymore - sounds just very un-Canadian.
May 7th, 2020, 04:16 AM
JBen

Good on ya for not being afraid to step on an eggshell 4100. A spade is a spade. Until and unless they (Feds) give the greenlight to do something about the leaks......

one of my closest friends and I have almost burned bridges over the ban and assault rifles a couple times. Once a couple years ago, and again Sunday. He is in full support of the ban.

He is allowed his opinions, as I am. We both really strongly defend that basic freedom. It’s why he’s my executor amongst other reasons. He is also an ex armed forces member and a nuclear physicists.

He knows guns ( or should). He and I have gone back and forth a few times.

Yesterday, he got into it with another friend of ours. That friend posted a picture of two rifles, both chambered in .223. One dressed in black, one in wood. He as he always does, fixated on rate of fire

I grabbed my shot gun (a semi) , a .303 British, a .308, and a 3inch Slug. Took a picture that showed the receiver and the 3 rounds.
*************

XXXXX do you mean the magazine or how it’s chambered ( not being smart)

One of these is very much not like the rest.

One of these is from an actual used in war rifle. It’s seen action. It’s killed millions. It’s magazine because it’s “grandfathered” is 8. It is a seen war rifle. It still works just fine.

One of these is my deer rifle
It holds 5

One not pictured is so small. It’s a mosquito to a Asian hornet. It holds 5

Which one should you actually worry about the most

I’ll tell you. It will put a hole in you the size of a nickel as it enters. The shock wave, ( you know science, kinetic energy, foot pounds) will shred organs.

It’s accurate . Shoot a dime accurate out past 100 yards. It holds 5

No reply......
He knows. But always misdirects...I don’t get that.
May 7th, 2020, 05:19 AM
line052

AS most of you know I am a politician, I wrote this post about V6 and V8 engines being banned, the person who I replied drives a V8 Chevy moded Camaro

Another response to a person saying, no need for anything but a single shot firearm. Who is a Chevy Camaro enthusiast..hence my response to her.

Deborah Starchuk I am not against car ownership, but we should ban Chevy Camaro and V8 engines, there is no reason to have a V8, (your profile picture). Because of your choice, you are destroying the environment, why do you need 8 cylinders or 6 cylinders for that matter. You should be only limited to 4 cylinders. Because you only need 4 cylinders, we will reduce the carrying capacity of your Camaro to 2 seats, really no need for more then 2 anyways.

Since the color is yellow, we will force you to change to neutral color of black or grey, because yellow is too bright and cause distress for people, you must also change the tires to Snow tires only. Snow tires dont have scary appearance of the racing tires, and will stop you from going faster, which turn will save money on fuel and save the environment.

I have yet to decide, if we will allow you to keep your car, because it is typically used in crime, high speed chases (mostly after stolen from owner). So for the interim, you must park in drive, not use, not transport, not sell, or trade. I will be by later to offer you what I think is a fair market value, you must take what I offer, or I will confiscate it anyways.

See how dumb your response is...
May 7th, 2020, 06:14 AM
line052

This is the best reasonable and clearly the important post of this thread, and I have been bashed for this in the past.
You are correct in all you say, and majority just dont get it about our Constitution and Charter. The majority of Canadians believe they have rights, they believe we have Freedom and Democracy (this OIC proves we don't) Harper used OIC to Ban Omar Kadars sister passport application, in 1942 it was used to enslave Japanese citizen in Canada during WWII.

The media is complacent in pushing a narrative and is it biased?..no it is not - it is a business and it produces content that it readers will consume on the left or right of a market share - there is no "Reporters" anymore, only content writers. It is a business model of survival in the 15 sec media wars attention span of people.

Gun owners think that "just wait until we elect a Conservative government" they will change it and make it right!!!. But most have no idea they are but pawns for political vote "getting" by demographics policies, not policies that benefit Canadians, who have been lost in anger identity politics.

Most have no idea how they are manipulated and kept in the dark about questions of rights and freedoms that they think they have. Many in gun community know defending your property is not an option, as you know it will lead to your arrest (justified or not), and they know it will result in seizure of firearms and a lengthy trial which will costs 10's of thousands of dollars even "defense fund" sold by certain firearms groups. Because you have no rights only privileges, and like teenagers - your privileges can be revoked at anytime - well because Mom/Dad (Feds) own the house and rules - and you have none until you move out. Slaves, serfs, compliant sheep..pick your name you fall into.

YET those same gun owners continue to believe that magical party loyalty will protect them, while not realizing if we continue to vote the same parties, we will get same result. Get mad at Red vote Blue - get mad at Blue vote Red. Whatever is done by libs, will undone by cons, which, will be redone libs and in the interim you have supported/approved/voted this knowing full well the risk..you pawns. Most of you have no idea, or apparently dont seem to care that nothing changes - that none of blue or red teams are talking changing the conditions (Charter or Constitution), to give property rights, self defence, free speech - why would they, it takes power from the same people who would use it OIC against you Blue/Red Teams. No; most are giving you hope to get your loyality, did Harper change the conditions of section 91 or 92...no, he gave you just enough hope to you to secure your vote....you were not needed after that..nor cared about..that is a fact.

Name me one party that will remove Section 91 and 92 of Firearms legislation, I can name two Libertarian Party of Canada (est 1973) and PPC (est 2018). Yet no one cares to support them or freedoms, I have ran in elections and had my message heard with heads shaking in agreement with policies presented...but only to be told..we must stop Wynne, we must stop Trudeau and can't take a chance to vote for (you) the ideas we believe in..and here we are...hoping on Conservative answer, which isn't - it is pandering policy to garner your vote - to be changed at the next election, but just enough steal your rights again...

Anyways rant over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakezilla

The AR used in crime argument was a blanket argument I hear a lot. How about we change it to " A legally aquired AR15 has never been used in a crime buy a RPAL holder." Is that better? If an AR has been used in a crime I would like to know about it so I can be ready in future discussions with friends. If you have evidence of this please share it.

People were "paranoid" about liberals taking their guns and they did. Maybe all the other "paranoia" is warranted. About 10 years ago I had a friend going off about Agenda 21 and I thought he was "paranoid". So I looked up Agenda 21, read it and compared to the federal, provincial and municipal policies that were being enacted. I didn't think he was so paranoid after that. People use the "paranoia" tag to discount everything that comes out of that persons mouth. Everything that person says might not be right but it's not all wrong either. Is Trudeau going to turn into Mao, no, but why the need to disarm the population? Why are people so eager to be lied to? The arguments about authoritarian power are to try to draw some parallels between today and what has happened in the past. There is a serious lack of historical knowledge in society today.

No Canadian is talking about rights. We all know we don't really have any, the Charter is a feel good measure that the government (all parties) only upholds when it suits them.

We are not going to win a debate on guns with the media against us. The narrative needs to be moved to a freedom issue. Do we want to be free? Do we want the government to have this much power over us with no recourse? The idea of freedom in Canada and America are very different. Canadian freedom is based on permission while the American freedom is based on inalienable rights from God lais out in their constitution.

For the third step you laid out. Do we not already do this? As a gun owner what more controls would you like to see?

You sound like a self loathing gun owner.
May 7th, 2020, 06:21 AM
fishermccann

Line you called anyone who votes for a 'traditional', political party, slaves , serfs, sheep, pawns. Do you feel this will garner votes for your party? In the last federal election your party lost over 20,000 votes down to 8400 in the entire country and only 0.05 % of those who voted. I applaud your standing up for what you believe in, but even the Rhinoceros party got a thousand more votes..
May 7th, 2020, 10:22 AM
line052

If you are offended by that characterization, then stop being one, look at your rights and see who has best interests in mind.... I have never had a problem pointing out truths and problems. I vote and support what I believe in, I used to be one of "you people" (Don Cherry coined) and voted Conservative for 30 yrs..but I am awake to the game played on the voters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishermccann

Line you called anyone who votes for a 'traditional', political party, slaves , serfs, sheep, pawns. Do you feel this will garner votes for your party? In the last federal election your party lost over 20,000 votes down to 8400 in the entire country and only 0.05 % of those who voted. I applaud your standing up for what you believe in, but even the Rhinoceros party got a thousand more votes..
May 7th, 2020, 11:46 AM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishermccann

Line you called anyone who votes for a 'traditional', political party, slaves , serfs, sheep, pawns. Do you feel this will garner votes for your party? In the last federal election your party lost over 20,000 votes down to 8400 in the entire country and only 0.05 % of those who voted. I applaud your standing up for what you believe in, but even the Rhinoceros party got a thousand more votes..

Libertarians aren't worth the bother. Neither are the other fringe parties.

Gun owners have a choice. We can engage in society and the established political structure to make positive changes on the firearms file or continue to lose. Working inside the structure is hard work. It means means making reasonable demands, making some accommodations, being respectful of alternate views, being polite while convincing people who disagree, being patient, recognizing small victories and realizing that you won't get everything you want right away or perhaps ever.

I went through C68 and in the intervening 25 years gun owners haven't changed the narrative and allowed our opponents to define us due reactionary thinking and frequent belligerence. I'm hearing the same old tired arguments in 2020 that I heard in 1995 only louder and more offensive because of social media.

Supporting fringe parties like the Libertarians can be compared to masturbating. You're often alone, it makes you feel good but doesn't accomplish much of any value.
May 7th, 2020, 12:56 PM
mosquito

Line052

Don't worry, remember the party that is in power now got less votes ... less votes than the opposition party actually.

But that party in power has supporters that are OK with...
Lies (budgets, SNC, Jody W.R., Admiral Norman, firearms etc.)
Ethics violations (Trudeau 3X, Morneau etc.)
a PM that gropes reporters and the apology is .... questionable
coverups and interference in police investigations
payouts to terrorists but vets ask too much
putting up illegal immigrants in hotels while the homeless freeze
Etc.
basically anything that in a basic course on morals would amount to a failure.

“A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices” - George Orwell

Then throw in the media lying and covering up, Union support....
https://twitter.com/UniforTheUnion/s...450797568?s=19

Attitudes and language that would look silly in Orwell's 1984 but are comparable to 1930's Germany or Stalin's "media"....

Seizing the private property of tens of thousands (or if they don't fix the 20mm, perhaps hundreds of thousands) of law abiding citizens using the opportunity a person not allowed to have firearms, who had smuggled firearms and obviously planned out the tragedy created for them, .... and they still support the government. US vs THEM, elites running things without supervision and the ability to cover it up, creating an economic disaster with huge long reaching effects, repeated attempts to seize power or avoid accountability for their actions ... welcome to 2020 Canada! ... and of course telling the truth will get you mocked and hated.... since I was reading this morning they remind me of Proverbs 9:7-8 .... think of where your time is better spent. :moose:
May 8th, 2020, 11:24 AM
grumpygeezer

In the past week there has been two drug busts in Simcoe county..probably more..illegal handguns found, drugs, cash, stolen items etc..all but one perpetrator were released (he had an outstanding warrant for breach of probation) with a future court date sometime in late August (maybe). My point?..our governments fail to respond to the appropriate punishment of criminals because they have rights. My legal privilege to own certain weapons has been taken away on the whim of misinformed prime minister and an ex police chief in denial to garner votes when his government is brought down. Until such time that politicians get to the underlying problem of crime and punishment for criminals, and stop catering to Indians who seem to have more rights than anyone in this country besides the french, my so called rights and privileges will diminish to nothing. This is what scares me, and should put fear into all law abiding Canadians alike regardless of party affiliation. I wish to be nobodies pawn.
May 8th, 2020, 11:48 AM
fishfood

Quote:

Originally Posted by grumpygeezer

In the past week there has been two drug busts in Simcoe county..probably more..illegal handguns found, drugs, cash, stolen items etc..all but one perpetrator were released (he had an outstanding warrant for breach of probation) with a future court date sometime in late August (maybe). My point?..our governments fail to respond to the appropriate punishment of criminals because they have rights. My legal privilege to own certain weapons has been taken away on the whim of misinformed prime minister and an ex police chief in denial to garner votes when his government is brought down. Until such time that politicians get to the underlying problem of crime and punishment for criminals, and stop catering to Indians who seem to have more rights than anyone in this country besides the french, my so called rights and privileges will diminish to nothing. This is what scares me, and should put fear into all law abiding Canadians alike regardless of party affiliation. I wish to be nobodies pawn.

Yeah I dont get it I'm trying to send a link cant haven't found the original yet . Either way 6 involved in this seizure. 2 men where caught with 28 kilos stopped in a traffic stop both men released with a promise to appear in court in the coming months. This stop lead them to the other 4 and the big haul in Quebec. Only of the 3 in this link was sent to prison the other 2 are out on the streets. So I think 1 to 3 out of 6 remains in custody lol. One walked away with o charges

I will try and find the original link.
This was the bust 2000 kilos of opium.

https://torontosun.com/news/local-ne...bec-drug-busts

Just a joke .
But pick on a ar15 that has possibly killed 1 person in almost 50 years of it being in Canada.

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May 8th, 2020, 06:59 PM
sidelock

These videos are long but worth watching in entirety to get a grasp of who or what we are dealing with. Pay particular attention to the 27:47 mark to the end to see how abruptly Bill Blair ends the interview. It also explains the reason the Liberal Government passed the restrictions through an order in council and bypassing parliament. !https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04amdjAqlNY
May 8th, 2020, 07:02 PM
sidelock

https://tnc.news/2020/05/04/scapegoa...BNhGxGLd3KjsGg
May 8th, 2020, 07:59 PM
Snowwalker

Well they just confirmed the first 12 gauge shotgun?

Who was saying that some here are just being fear mongers?

Badenock, how would you like your crow?
May 8th, 2020, 08:25 PM
fishfood

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Well they just confiscated the first 12 gauge shotgun.

Who was saying that some here are just being fear mongers?

Badenock, how would you like your crow?

I said fear mongering lol.

Not to the board members

The government is fear mongering the public to ban ar 15 . You know the gun that killed 1 canadian in 50 years lol.

Maybe one day a sicko would of tried to use it one day to unfold his rampage against the public. Now they have to turn to bird shot or what ever they want to used. But it wont be a ar 15 thank god you know they are the least used in crimes wierd lol.

Ban the gun that has kills once every 25 years lol.

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May 8th, 2020, 08:43 PM
Badenoch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowwalker

Well they just confiscated the first 12 gauge shotgun.

Who was saying that some here are just being fear mongers?

Badenock, how would you like your crow?

No 12 gauges have been "confiscated." Some dufus at Epps who doesn't know how to use a bore gauge made a video and posted it on YouTube.
May 8th, 2020, 09:04 PM
Snowwalker

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishfood

I said fear mongering lol.

Not to the board members

The government is fear mongering the public to ban ar 15 . You know the gun that killed 1 canadian in 50 years lol.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

A couple people here have said members were fear mongering over the shotgun thing....
May 8th, 2020, 09:12 PM
Snowwalker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenoch

No 12 gauges have been "confiscated." Some dufus at Epps who doesn't know how to use a bore gauge made a video and posted it on YouTube.

it should read confirmed....I corrected what autocorrect corrected.
May 9th, 2020, 12:33 AM
jaycee

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidelock

These videos are long but worth watching in entirety to get a grasp of who or what we are dealing with. Pay particular attention to the 27:47 mark to the end to see how abruptly Bill Blair ends the interview. It also explains the reason the Liberal Government passed the restrictions through an order in council and bypassing parliament. !https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04amdjAqlNY

Typical politician, fill the room with a lot of meaningless words, don't let anyone else get a word in edgewise, when you do nail them down on something, interview is over.
I am rather disappointed that they never asked why? indigenous people were exempted from losing their AR 15 type firearms.
Did you notice that when they started asking more questions , how red his face got!

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